General Danjuma, A Thunderous Applause Or Scathing Rebukes?

[Robot]

...Read the full article.

[emeka008]

My friendly advice to Danjuma is to steal only as much as he can handle if he must steal.

The damage he has done to Nigeria is beyond stolen $500 million dollars oil block.
How many judicial or administrative decisions has he skewed with the stolen money?

How many do-or-die politicians has he bankrolled with stolen money?

How many inter ethnic massacres has Danjuma's stolen money sponsored?

How many hospitals have we failed to build or doctors, engineers and nurses lost to other countries because Danjuma stole more than he can ever squander in a lifetime?

[I Love Nigeria]

Ogbuefi High Chief Emeka wrote

My friendly advice to Danjuma is to steal only as much as he can handle if he must steal.

The damage he has done to Nigeria is beyond stolen $500 million dollars oil block.
How many judicial or administrative decisions has he skewed with the stolen money?

How many do-or-die politicians has he bankrolled with stolen money?

How many inter ethnic massacres has Danjuma's stolen money sponsored?

How many hospitals have we failed to build or doctors, engineers and nurses lost to other countries because Danjuma stole more than he can ever squander in a lifetime?

All your questions, all your retorts and all your sarcasms may all be valid and true of Danjuma...

You did not or refuse to ask and make the same demands of Mr. Orji Kalu, Joshua Chibi Dariye, Lucky Igbinedion, Diepreye Alamsiegha, Abubakar Atiku, Ibrahim Babangida, James Onanefe Ibori, Akingbola... ete etc etc

Do you really want me to continue to name names to that endless list of dishonor roll?

Why are Nigerians willing to jump all over Danjuma and not the rest of persons and corporate entities like him? Is it because Danjuma confessed, atoned, showed remorse or turned moralistic etc? Why hold him to a higher standard in a society with persons worse than he is?

[Igboamaeze]

Ogbuefi High Chief Emeka wrote All your questions, all your retorts and all your sarcasms may all be valid and true of Danjuma...

You did not or refuse to ask and make the same demands of Mr. Orji Kalu, Joshua Chibi Dariye, Lucky Igbinedion, Diepreye Alamsiegha, Abubakar Atiku, Ibrahim Babangida, James Onanefe Ibori, Akingbola... ete etc etc
Do you really want me to continue to name names to that endless list of dishonor roll?

Why are Nigerians willing to jump all over Danjuma and not the rest of persons and corporate entities like him? Is it because Danjuma confessed, atoned, showed remorse or turned moralistic etc? Why hold him to a higher standard in a society with persons worse than he is?

-----

And how does not listing all the looters vitiate Emeka's point? Is your own list exhaustive?

The revelation by Danjuma goes to buttress the point I have made here on several occassions, viz: that the godfathers of looting reside in the Northern half of Nigeria and that the pretenders who go about mouthing anti-corruption are shielding the godfathers while molesting their southern apprentice accomplices.

There is more from where this confession came from...

[I Love Nigeria]

IgboAmaeze wrote

And how does not listing all the looters vitiate Emeka's point? Is your own list exhaustive?

The revelation by Danjuma goes to buttress the point I have made here on several occassions, viz: that the godfathers of looting reside in the Northern half of Nigeria and that the pretenders who go about mouthing anti-corruption are shielding the godfathers while molesting their southern apprentice accomplices.

There is more from where this confession came from...

1. You are right, my list is not exhaustive or dispositive on the issue. It was not intended to be exhaustive, but rather to just make the point.

2. You lie, when you claim that looters in the "South" are mere apprentice... that is like saying Oyenusi and Anini were no armed robbers...
So in your book, James Onanefe Ibori is a mere "southern apprentice accomplice" that your coined phrase by itself, makes you a wordsmith or phrase-smith

3. Why should I tolerate looters from any part of Nigeria?

4. The point I sought to make was... there is Danjuma who is atoning and repentant... making baby-steps merely, perhaps,..

5. But, how about all the rest of looters who remain unrepentant, unapologetic and remorseless... and these other looters are from both sides of the Niger River... (Looters, "Northern-Southern Looters)!

6.Why must we frame and phrase a national contagion in regional, ethnic and religious terms?

[tanibaba]

General Danjuma was not and is not the problem. The oil blocks were awarded in a discretionary manner under the military (which of course was not accountable to the citizens) He was not the only one. And the implication of that, apart from the non-transparency of the transactions was the loss of income to the Nigerian state (as appropriate fees were not paid in addition to the fact that the cost of acquisition were not adequate or commensurate)

What we should be worrying about is the system and the manner that public institutions handle the resources of the country and not about persons (except of course by asking them to pay more taxes through appropriate pricing)

Sometimes we leave what is important and go about wasting time on irrelevancies. Instead of reviewing all those laws imposed on us by the military with a view to ammending them or expunging them (now that we have the opportunity of having democracy), reviewing institutions and reinforcing them we are busy lampooning Gen Danjuma.

Oil block is just one of several examples. Can you remember the law passed under Abacha hijacking continental shelves in our states? The Schedules 2 and 4 of the constitution which makes a man living in Abuja to have control over Badagry expressway in Lagos? Is Bunu Kuka Road in Katsina that links the state with Niger Republic an international/federal road? How come the government of the state constructed a road to link Niger Republic without stress from the federal ministry of works?

There are too many complexities in this country.

Once again my appreciation to the General for this laudable feat. Let others emulate him. Let them be reminded that Diana Ross once sang "reach out and touch somebody's hand, make this world a better place if you can"

taslim

[chanchaga]

General Danjuma was not and is not the problem. The oil blocks were awarded in a discretionary manner under the military (which of course was not accountable to the citizens) He was not the only one. And the implication of that, apart from the non-transparency of the transactions was the loss of income to the Nigerian state (as appropriate fees were not paid in addition to the fact that the cost of acquisition were not adequate or commensurate)

What we should be worrying about is the system and the manner that public institutions handle the resources of the country and not about persons (except of course by asking them to pay more taxes through appropriate pricing)

Sometimes we leave what is important and go about wasting time on irrelevancies. Instead of reviewing all those laws imposed on us by the military with a view to ammending them or expunging them (now that we have the opportunity of having democracy), reviewing institutions and reinforcing them we are busy lampooning Gen Danjuma.

Oil block is just one of several examples. Can you remember the law passed under Abacha hijacking continental shelves in our states? The Schedules 2 and 4 of the constitution which makes a man living in Abuja to have control over Badagry expressway in Lagos? Is Bunu Kuka Road in Katsina that links the state with Niger Republic an international/federal road? How come the government of the state constructed a road to link Niger Republic without stress from the federal ministry of works?

There are too many complexities in this country.

Once again my appreciation to the General for this laudable feat. Let others emulate him. Let them be reminded that Diana Ross once sang "reach out and touch somebody's hand, make this world a better place if you can"

taslim

Tanibaba,
I still think Danjuma and others should be blamed. It is looting, laws or no laws.

[Eja]

If Danjuma meant to do any good, he would take the 500 million dollars and bribe the national assembly to do some useful work.

I am not joking. In fact, I am looking at things in a practical and objective fashion: We all know that most of the men and women in the Senate/House of Reps are ruled by short-sighted greed so, as long as the price is right, they can be made to do anything.

Now, if a man like Danjuma were truly sincere and, if he truly had the best interests of the so-called nation at heart, he could reverse the effects of ill-governance by using the same tools employed by those who have exploited the country for their own selfish needs.

If he was truly sincere, he would spend the remainder of his life and ill-gotten fortune buying the compliance of those who can impose positive reforms on the systems running that country.

The oil blocks were awarded in a discretionary manner under the military (which of course was not accountable to the citizens) He was not the only one. And the implication of that, apart from the non-transparency of the transactions was the loss of income to the Nigerian state (as appropriate fees were not paid in addition to the fact that the cost of acquisition were not adequate or commensurate)

What we should be worrying about is the system and the manner that public institutions handle the resources of the country and not about persons (except of course by asking them to pay more taxes through appropriate pricing)

Sometimes we leave what is important and go about wasting time on irrelevancies. Instead of reviewing all those laws imposed on us by the military with a view to ammending them or expunging them (now that we have the opportunity of having democracy), reviewing institutions and reinforcing them we are busy lampooning Gen Danjuma.

Oil block is just one of several examples. Can you remember the law passed under Abacha hijacking continental shelves in our states? The Schedules 2 and 4 of the constitution which makes a man living in Abuja to have control over Badagry expressway in Lagos? Is Bunu Kuka Road in Katsina that links the state with Niger Republic an international/federal road? How come the government of the state constructed a road to link Niger Republic without stress from the federal ministry of works?

taslim

Danjuma could be directing his considerable resources towards the cause of finding solutions for the above. Since he has not done anything of this nature, we can only conclude that he is contented with things as they are. And yet we are expected to applaud him?

[I Love Nigeria]

Eja Your response is shocking! You want Danjuma to bribe law makers and yet, you are not happy with things as they are, but you want and you are, publicly advocating the bribing of the National Assembly? How perverse is that?

Advocating bribery, even as sarcasm or tongue-in-cheek, is clearly unacceptable. This is incredulous! Eja, I have never read you like this! An advocate of public good, advocating and endorsing bribery as public policy?

Eja In one breathe you acknowledge that the system is broken because it is vapidly corrupt, in another breathe, you say, lets fix it through corruption with bribery and bribes to the law makers? I have never heard such contradictions, ever.

The other issue is, it should be remembered that this debate here is not whether Danjuma is a saint or an angel, but whether giving a little is not preferable to giving nothing at all.

AND, whether someone who has given, is not a whole lot better that those others, who are still looking to take, rather than give.

So, there are two issues here... first is that he gave at all and others are not giving at all... but we are not blaming the others who have offered zilch, nadir,... we instead blaming Danjuma who gave at all

Second, Eja you and some others here, are concerned with where the money is targeted, are free to debate that aspect and we can have are preferences on that... but, that is really not the main issue... because there are clearly many desirous and competing projects needing funding... I am willing to take a vow of poverty, no salary, just give me accommodation and basic transport to get to work... I will administer the funds... efficiently, effectively, no bribes, no misappropriations...

The issue here is really that Danjuma spoke and gave and others, similarly siutated, are not... and we are content to attack Danjuma, the man who spoke and gave

Eja wrote

If Danjuma meant to do any good, he would take the 500 million dollars and bribe the national assembly to do some useful work.

I am not joking. In fact, I am looking at things in a practical and objective fashion: We all know that most of the men and women in the Senate/House of Reps are ruled by short-sighted greed so, as long as the price is right, they can be made to do anything.

Now, if a man like Danjuma were truly sincere and, if he truly had the best interests of the so-called nation at heart, he could reverse the effects of ill-governance by using the same tools employed by those who have exploited the country for their own selfish needs.

If he was truly sincere, he would spend the remainder of his life and ill-gotten fortune buying the compliance of those who can impose positive reforms on the systems running that country.


Danjuma could be directing his considerable resources towards the cause of finding solutions for the above. Since he has not done anything of this nature, we can only conclude that he is contented with things as they are. And yet we are expected to applaud him?

[I Love Nigeria]

Tanibaba wrote

General Danjuma was not and is not the problem. The oil blocks were awarded in a discretionary manner under the military (which of course was not accountable to the citizens)

He was not the only one. And the implication of that, apart from the non-transparency of the transactions was the loss of income to the Nigerian state (as appropriate fees were not paid in addition to the fact that the cost of acquisition were not adequate or commensurate)

What we should be worrying about is the system and the manner that public institutions handle the resources of the country and not about persons (except of course by asking them to pay more taxes through appropriate pricing)

Sometimes we leave what is important and go about wasting time on irrelevancies. Instead of reviewing all those laws imposed on us by the military with a view to ammending them or expunging them (now that we have the opportunity of having democracy), reviewing institutions and reinforcing them we are busy lampooning Gen Danjuma.

Precisely!


1. Danjuma is not the only one who benefited from an unaccountable system which does not emphasize transparency

2. Our emphasis should be overall system reforms... fine tuning... through laws and not through giving ringing endorsements to bribery

[Eja]

Hmmm yasss, fada forgive Eja for he knew not what he said. It is outrageous!!! Anathema!! Obscenity!! Abomination!!! Where is that firing squad??!!
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.
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I Love Nigeria, if I were inclined, I could outdo you in hyperbolic faux-outrage any day...just thought you should know....

[LoveNigeria]

The North has been reaping the benefits of July 29,1966 "ARABA" coup till today. This is of course with the collaboration of a few Southerners who take crumbs (or whatever those diaper-headed kingmaker emirs allow) from under the table.

T.Y Danjuma voicing out openly his own windfall from that coup is a stark evidence of years of reaping. In the reaping process, with everyone trying to join in (grab a piece), the good intrinsic, native values of each constituent tribe of Nigeria (North or South) are headed towards extinction !! If the trend continues the next generation will be worse !!

For those of us waiting and calling for Nigeria Rawlings, the question is "Where is he going to come from ?? " -the same Nigerian Army ? However with God (God of Israel) nothing is impossible.

[Felix]

Tanibaba wrote

Precisely!


1. Danjuma is not the only one who benefited from an unaccountable system which does not emphasize transparency

2. Our emphasis should be overall system reforms... fine tuning... through laws and not through giving ringing endorsements to bribery

During the 80s Lawrence Anini used to 'send down the naira rain' as he drives around the markets in Benin city after looting nearby banks 'mercilessly'...He was known for spreading serious wads of naira to the poor to 'alleviate their sufferings' but in the end he was convicted by a Nigerian court for armed robbery and was shot with no sympathy. Using your wobbling analogy here, I guess we should see him as a BIG hero and maybe give him a national honour too. Afterall he was not the only armed robber in Naijeiriya then. Imagine puting your life at risk as you confront all these mopol guys with their weird intimidating 'tribal marks' and after all that you go on to spread most of your loot in the market place. Compare that with a well connected, ridiculously rich Danjuma driving over to Aso Rock to meet a former juniour colleageu in the army and after a few minutes chat, he was smiling away with a whooping 2 billion dollar oil block to toy around with. Then there will be some hyper 'patriotic' Nigerians blowing his trumpet to high heavens all over NVS for trying to 'share' some... Una say this no be typical Nathi "longer throat"?

[I Love Nigeria]

Eja No faux pas outrage by me at all.

I am assuming that you are conscientious person, and as a consequence, you will have to know already, that a majority of what you have EVER published, have been read by me... whether they were written on marble or on match boxes.

I have frequently shared and agreed with you views, your worldview in several respects..

BUT, you and I, must part ways, ... as when you write crap on match boxes... advocating bribery as way to reforms... and there is no faux pas in my outrage.

You Clauswitzean and as such you see war as pursuit of policy by any means... Whereas, I am Ghandian or Mandelaian or Kingly .... saying no violence... no just wars..
You will starve a civilian population as tool of war, I am saying it is against Vienna conventions... For you, all is fair in war.

For me... I believe that you cannot put our fires by pouring accelerant petrol, kerosene and other flammable liquids!

[I Love Nigeria]

Eja I am sure that when you have had time to rethink this, you will find that the idea of advocating bribing law makers or legislators in any nation, as a process to reformation of a broken system... is just repugnant, reprehensible and against public policy.

You are in essence, suggesting the INSTITUTIONALIZATION of bribery?

And you said, "seriously" you are not joking!

I think advocating bribery is just plain ridiculous and absurd.

Isn't bribery and corruption what had created the lopsidedness in the allocation of resources and the perversity of our system? Isn't that what created the system which we all rail against? How can we strengthen the system with, by, and through, undermining it with bribes to the National Assembly? And you call my reaction faux pas outrage? No sir!

[I Love Nigeria]

LoveNigeria wrote

The North has been reaping the benefits of July 29,1966 "ARABA" coup till today, of course with the collaboration of a few Southerners who take crumbs (or whatever those diaper-headed kingmaker emirs allow) from under the table.

No sir! You are profoundly inaccurate in your assertions.

There are corrupt guys in your hometown and my hometown and in Danjuma hometown as well. Corruption and other Nigerian challenges is not monopolized by any region or ethnic group... there are good and bad Nigerians in every of the 774 Local Government Areas, and in all the 36 states and the Federal Capital Territory. Trust me on this.

Felix wrote

During the 80s Lawrence Anini used to 'send down the naira rain' as he drives around the markets in Benin city after looting nearby banks 'mercilessly'...He was known for spreading serious wads of naira to the poor to 'alleviate their sufferings

I never said that Danjuma is a saint or an angel...

Instead, I have argued that Danjuma is COMPARATIVELY better than all others... similarly situated... and who are still stealing with impunity, unrepentantly, remorselessly and unapologetic.

I live in New York City, where Andrew Carnegie, Brook Astor, JP Morgan, The Rockefeller, The Vanderbilt etc... all men of immense wealth in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries... the source of their wealth are similar in circumstances to the not so pristine ways which currently afflicts and bedevil Nigeria

However, the burnished and lasting image of all these names in current American history, is philanthropy ... do not take my word for it... Google them.

All these families were derided as Robber Barons in their time... but they are now remembered "fondly" as philanthropists (they are now Robbin Hoods)?

I also mentioned or alluded to this trend, in my article under discussion, reminding readers that the hallowed and world famous Harvard University was established and founded by slaver with profits and proceeds of slavery.

Give Danjuma a break... ask Ibrahim Babangida, Abacha's children and James Ibori and Lucky Igbinedion etc to donate a million dollars each to the University of Maiduguri....

Notice I did not even say $100 million dollars? But just $1 million compared to Danjuma's $100 million dollars!

And who told you that there are no richer persons in Nigeria than Danjuma and who told you that the sources of wealth for all such other persons are any different from Danjuma's?

[Eja]

I Love Nigeria, how ironic it is that you are objecting so strongly to the use of the word "bribe".

I say this because you are also here asking why we are not celebrating a person who is an unrepentant (and still active) member of the misruling elites; one of the architects of the ramshackle prison called Nigeria.

Can you seen beyond the word "bribe"? Can you put the use of this word into context? I think you can and that is why I called your 'outrage' faux/hyperbolic.

I mean, would you react differently if I did not use that word? I remember again what Deng Xiaoping said about the colour of cats being of no consequence as long as the cat could catch mice....do you agree or is that also too much like Clausewitz?

Let me outline a progression of possible scenarios for you:

1.1: The money has already been stolen.

2.11: It can be kept for selfish needs (which includes self aggrandizement dressed up as 'charity').

2.12: The old systems of patronage that have the less well-off queuing every morning to receive the daily spending money is modernised/rebranded : we now have NGOs queuing up every month end to receive their budgetary allocation.

2.13: And with the collective mind-set now further polluted by the novel idea that giving back some of what you stole to some selected NGO can wash you clean, our corrupt elites get their noses deeper into the trough with a renewed energy.


OR


2.21: It can be used to bring deep and far-reaching changes at a fundamental level.

2.22: Lawmakers, LGA Chairmen, judges, etc. are called in to see our Mr Moneybags. Each one is given a sum of money (<= $2 million) and assured that more is on the way if he/she plays ball. The money is a gift...not a bribe... (Barkah de Sallah abi na Merry Xmas).

2.23: One from those who receive the "gifts" is told to put forward a bill that proposes a sovereign national conference and others are told to back him/her up - could be that or, it could be something else that would have a positive effect on the polity. In short, instead of doling out pieces of fish, our remorseful Mr Moneybags decides to use his loot to buy back rivers and fishing grounds that were stolen from the people by circumstances ones like himself created.


Both scenarios are possible - if you disagree (that both are possible) please state why. Now, which would you prefer to see?

[Igboamaeze]

------------

@I Love Nigeria,

With the kind of puerile logic that you display on this board, may I say respectfully, that you are a massive disgrace to the legal profession. I doubt if Danjuama, Babangida, Abacha and the rest of the annointed looters of Northern Nigeria will be half as gung-ho as you have been all over here defending their mindless criminality.

You need to see a psychiatrist urgently...

[I Love Nigeria]

Eja You and I, agree, and can stipulate to the open-secret that our current system is flawed.

I am also in agreement with you on matter reforms... even as we simultaneously fight corruption, bribery, strengthen the system etc... this should be seen as multiple pronged approach... from all flanks... None of these efforts are mutually exclusive... they need not be, an either, or, approach...

There is no need for zero sum games or approaches.

However, the best way to remedy flaws in a structure is not to undermine it's foundations.

In my view, bribing legislators and judges etc is the most profound way to undermine our democracy, our system, our rule of law and our constitutionalism.

It is irrelevant what bribe is termed or dressed up as, or embellished as, as fresh basil or roses... bribing still stinks.

I am not asking that we celebrate Danjuma... Instead, I am wondering why we are asking for his head... when he has done better than other we all know... hiding in plain sight... richer than Danjuma and still acting with impunity, looking for more loot, pillage and plunders... remaining unrepentant, remorseless and unapologetic

how ironic it is that you are objecting so strongly to the use of the word "bribe".

I say this because you are also here asking why we are not celebrating a person who is an unrepentant (and still active) member of the misruling elites; one of the architects of the ramshackle prison called Nigeria.

Can you seen beyond the word "bribe"? Can you put the use of this word into context? I think you can and that is why I called your 'outrage' faux/hyperbolic.

I mean, would you react differently if I did not use that word? I remember again what Deng Xiaoping said about the colour of cats being of no consequence as long as the cat could catch mice....do you agree or is that also too much like Clausewitz?

Let me outline a progression of possible scenarios for you:

1.1: The money has already been stolen.

2.11: It can be kept for selfish needs (which includes self aggrandizement dressed up as 'charity').

2.12: The old systems of patronage that have the less well-off queuing every morning to receive the daily spending money is modernised/rebranded : we now have NGOs queuing up every month end to receive their budgetary allocation.

2.13: And with the collective mind-set now further polluted by the novel idea that giving back some of what you stole to some selected NGO can wash you clean, our corrupt elites get their noses deeper into the trough with a renewed energy.


OR


2.21: It can be used to bring deep and far-reaching changes at a fundamental level.

2.22: Lawmakers, LGA Chairmen, judges, etc. are called in to see our Mr Moneybags. Each one is given a sum of money (<= $2 million) and assured that more is on the way if he/she plays ball. The money is a gift...not a bribe... (Barkah de Sallah abi na Merry Xmas).

2.23: One from those who receive the "gifts" is told to put forward a bill that proposes a sovereign national conference and others are told to back him/her up - could be that or, it could be something else that would have a positive effect on the polity. In short, instead of doling out pieces of fish, our remorseful Mr Moneybags decides to use his loot to buy back rivers and fishing grounds that were stolen from the people by circumstances ones like himself created.


Both scenarios are possible - if you disagree (that both are possible) please state why. Now, which would you prefer to see?

[I Love Nigeria]

IgboAmaeze wrote

I doubt if Danjuama, Babangida, Abacha and the rest of the annointed looters of Northern Nigeria will be half as gung-ho as you have been all over here defending their mindless criminality.

Actually, defending, is not a phrase which I would apply to what I have done or seeking to do in all of these. What is at stake here, is the fact that there are many ways to "skin a cat" skinning a cat does not sound like a pleasant thing, for the cat or the person engage in the skinning.

There is a better way and I am prescribing my preference and this is quite different from justifying how Danjuma and others came about their wealth in retrospect or defending Danjuma now, and much worse, defending others, who are unrepentant and remain unapologetic and giving nothing back, quite unlike Danjuma.

PS: Could you be kind and generous enough to recommend YOUR psychiatrist

[Eja]

Eja You and I, agree, and can stipulate to the open-secret that our current system is flawed.

I am also in agreement with you on matter reforms... even as we simultaneously fight corruption, bribery, strengthen the system etc... this should be seen as multiple pronged approach... from all flanks... None of these efforts are mutually exclusive... they need not be, an either, or, approach...

There is no need for zero sum games or approaches.

However, the best way to remedy flaws in a structure is not to undermine it's foundations.

In my view, bribing legislators and judges etc is the most profound way to undermine our democracy, our system, our rule of law and our constitutionalism.

It is irrelevant what bribe is termed or dressed up as, or embellished as, as fresh basil or roses... bribing still stinks.

I am not asking that we celebrate Danjuma... Instead, I am wondering why we are asking for his head... when he has done better than other we all know... hiding in plain sight... richer than Danjuma and still acting with impunity, looking for more loot, pillage and plunders... remaining unrepentant, remorseless and unapologetic

I think you misunderstand my stance. What I am questioning is the reason why he must be celebrated for doing something which, at the end of day, will have no positive effect on a system whose ongoing depredations his alleged act of charity is intended to ameliorate.

Would it not be better if ones like him used 'their moneys' to attack the rot?

Keep in mind that I am not asking him to fund militias or, to employ assassins. I am saying, bribe people to do the right thing.

Sorry, but that is the state things have got to. You are interested in peaceful change and yet, here you are protesting like some fundamentalist Bolshevik () against something that is nothing more than common capitalist practice...why? ...

Then you talk about the error of a "zero sum approach" - yet, from the way you have taken an absolutist moral stance against the word "bribe", it seems that you are the one most guilty of what you preach against!

Let us be frank, the process of deploying bribes is a common and ancient part of human interactions. Where the thing becomes counter-productive is when people take the money and do nothing or, where they demand (as bribes) too large a chunk from the money that should be used to implement a job.

That been said, we all do it. Could be a father who promises his son a bike if he passes exams or, it could be the company director who promises bonuses to the most productive workers : most human interactions (from domestic/social to commercial/government) are lubricated (one way or another) with bribes. We fool ourselves if we believe that the various euphemisms they are called actually describe different things.

[I Love Nigeria]

Mr. Nigerian has two wallets. Both wallets were stolen by two different thieves.

Thief number one returns wallet number one to Mr. Nigerians with one-fifths of wallet’s content intact.
Mr. Nigerian is angered, justifiably, at Thief number one, for stealing at all and depriving Mr. Nigerian what is rightly his. Mr. Nigerian wants and demand arrest, trial and imprisonment for Thief number one.

Thief number two who took wallet number two, has no plans to return wallet number to Mr. Nigerian, instead, Thief number two is presently currently, planning armed violent robbery against Mr. Nigerian and what is worse? Thief number two remains unapologetic, remorseless and shameless for stealing wallet number two from Mr. Nigerian to begin with, and now, with further impunity, Thief number two plans more violent armed robberies against the harmless Mr. Nigerian.

During all of these, Mr. Nigerian see Thief number two, hiding in plain sight, and Mr. Nigerian has done nothing to hold Thief number two to hold him to account for stealing Mr. Nigerian’s wallet number two. No investigations, charges and or trial is pending against Thief number two.

But Mr. Nigerian is squandering his precious time shrill-shouting and lampooning Thief number one, the one who actually returned Mr. Nigerian’s wallet number one with some contents still in it.

Mr. Nigerian gets loud with sanctimonious sermons, excoriating Thief number one, while Thief number two is left alone, with peace of mind, audacity and impunity to plan his next and more violent attack against Mr. Nigerian, AGAIN!

In the above analogies, I take the view that Thief number one is comparatively a thief with some conscience left in him. But without saying that he is a model citizen or saint and angel.

Thief number one must be regretting coming out to deliver the wallet number one to Mr. Nigerian? No good deeds goes unpunished? OK, lets call it "good" deeds


In all of these, it should be understood, that stealing or theft is not advocated. So, there is really no good thief, except that, comparatively, there are attenuating and extenuating circumstances to consider in these cases.

[emeka008]

I Love Nigeria,
I did not set out to criticise Danjuma any more than he deserved . For me, it is a case of to whom so much oil block has been gifted ........!

I was not impressed by his confession, nor do I believe dropping a few crumbs to charity amounted to anything other than a cheap publicity stunt.

As Igboamaeze et al rightly pointed out, nothing in my very brief response suggested that I had taken my position based on Danjuma’s ethnicity or religion.
My key consideration has been that Danjuma was GIVEN an oil block, he sold it, made hundreds of millions of dollars and now confesses he has no clue what to do with what is essentially stolen money.
Please read a version of how Danjuma sold his gifted oil block to the Chinese Oil company (http://grandioseparlor.blogspot.com/...-nigerian.html).

I considered whether I should award any points for his courageous but foolish confession but decided not after reviewing articles of the sale of his oil block to China which entrenches colonisation of Nigeria. He is not even original in not knowing what to do with easy money.

Long before Danjuma’s confession, Gowon – Nigeria’s former military head of state, famously declared Nigeria’s problem was not money but how to spend it!
The common denominator is that both Danjuma and Gowon were talking about oil money extracted from Niger Delta. It is also accepted that both men had used deadly military force to secure oil – presumably for the benefit of Nigeria rather than for a few privileged ones.

Danjuma is one of many military and political leaders , collectively known as corrupticians, who have shaped Nigeria’s destiny. They have used the Land Use Decree and other policy instruments to corner oil blocks and grab lands to the detriment of many communities and whole ethnic groups and peoples. What entitled Danjuma to an oil block any more than Ken Saro Wiwa? After all both wanted one United Nigeria when Biafrans wanted an end to the whole giant of Africa project! Danjuma has no expertise of significance in oil exploration no wonder he sold his gifted oil block for so much money he cannot manage. http://www.sapetro.com/about.php

The oil company that bought Danjuma’s oil block just like other oil companies are in it to make profit for shareholders and the environmental and other damages the host oil communities suffer are only secondary consideration.

It is clear that Danjuma’s oil block billions mean environmental tragedy , humiliation and outright death of host communities located so far away from Danjuma’s mansions spread all over Nigeria and beyond. Over the years, resentment by hosts of Danjuma’s oil blocks has taken progressively deadlier dimensions culminating in the hanging of Ken Saro Wiwa. It was none other than Danjuma as defence minister who decimated Odi community in 1999. Was he just acting in Nigeria’s interest or merely ensuring that his oil blocks did not become abandoned property?

The Odi invasion by our investigation was premeditated. It was carefully planned to annihilate the people in order to make things smooth and easy for the oil companies. The invasion was called operation Hakuri II by the Minister of Defence, General T.Y. Danjuma. Briefing the Ministerial Conference on November 25, he explained Operation Hakuri II on Odi and other communities of the Niger Delta thus:
"This Operation Hakuri II was initiated with the mandate of protecting lives and property - particularly oil platforms flow stations, operating rig terminals and pipelines refineries and power installation in the Niger Delta."
In other words, it was for oil and oil alone that the soldiers who are today maintained with oil money from Odi and other communities of the Niger Delta went to Odi to commit those atrocities.
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Urgent_A...ic_122399.html

Of course, resentment against Danjuma and a few other oil block owners has gone beyond localised kidnapping of foreign oil workers for ransom. The last time I checked , priests, school children, politicians and even army generals were also ready victims of kidnapping. Does anyone see the direct link between Danjuma’s oil blocks and the tragedy that Nigeria has become?

What else has Danjuma been doing with his unimaginable wealth? Furthering inter ethnic harmony?
http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=27858

If Danjuma’s confession is not a publicity stunt, what was the purpose of court proceedings to restore more oil blocks to himself? Mind you, he does not know what to do with money?
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nta73070.htm

[I Love Nigeria]

Eja In my eyes, you look and sound like the US Supreme Court when you wrote

Keep in mind that I am not asking him to fund militias or, to employ assassins. I am saying, bribe people to do the right thing

The US Supreme Court in a recent judgment, permitted corporations to fund political campaigns to their heart's content. Which in effect/implication, means a tobacco company or polluter, can sponsor candidates, who may end up, producing regulations with predictable tenor and outcomes for the society... Senator Paul Adujie sponsored by Wal-Mart or Target, who now writes labor laws in complete disregard to OSHA or minimum wage?

I need to drink some double-expresso to be in a position to ruminate about this concept of bribing to fight the rot in a broken system... a system broken by bribery and corruption... this whole concept of bribing to do the right thing is .... em, em, em, a little bizarre ... but you insist that this is mere semantics - polemics on my part?

Eja wrote

I think you misunderstand my stance. What I am questioning is the reason why he must be celebrated for doing something which, at the end of day, will have no positive effect on a system whose ongoing depredations his alleged act of charity is intended to ameliorate.

Would it not be better if ones like him used 'their moneys' to attack the rot?

Let us be frank, the process of deploying bribes is a common and ancient part of human interactions. Where the thing becomes counter-productive is when people take the money and do nothing or, where they demand (as bribes) too large a chunk from the money that should be used to implement a job.

That been said, we all do it. Could be a father who promises his son a bike if he passes exams or, it could be the company director who promises bonuses to the most productive workers : most human interactions (from domestic/social to commercial/government) are lubricated (one way or another) with bribes. We fool ourselves if we believe that the various euphemisms they are called actually describe different things.

You insist that bribe is the same thing by another name... as in carrot and stick, pleasure and pain, reward and punishment... salary or bonus or inducement? Anything given to procure a behavior or conduct... to do or to refrain... quite interesting academic or abstract debate.

More double-expresso please!

[I Love Nigeria]

emeka008 wrote

If Danjuma’s confession is not a publicity stunt?

My answer to you is that... I wish that all other persons and entities, foreign and domestic, who got rich at Nigerians and Nigeria's expense JUST like Danjuma did... should do like Danjuma just did... whatever Danjuma's ulterior motives.

So, let James Onanefe Ibori donate $100 million dollars to University of Maiduguri Teaching Hospital for Medical Research and if the money is given and it actually serves Nigeria's public good, I could care less, what personal aggrandizing purposes James Ibori fancies.

So, let Lucky Igbinedion donate $100 million dollars to enable the construction of a new international airport in Damaturu or Potiskum and I could care less, what Mr. Igbinedion's ulterior aggrandizing motives are.

Let Diepreye Alamsiegha donate $100 million dollars for pipe borne water in Damboa or Uba Askira and I could care less, whether Mr. Alamsiegha is having multiple orgasm as a consequence of public adoration-adulation

The issue for me... is simply that... too many Nigerians are badgering Danjuma... even though there many others like Danjuma, who have profited from the Nigerian system, but, quite unlike Danjuma sans publicity, desire for vice presidency or whatever other motives so far ascribed to Danjuma...

the others are so far, not motivated to give even one Kobo or one cent back!

[I Love Nigeria]

Emeka008 wrote

the sale of his oil block to China which entrenches colonisation of Nigeria.

Why would you be happier with Agip. ExxoMobil, Texaco, Shell, British Petroleum etc all of which are American and European multinationals conglomerates doing business in Nigeria forever... but, you are somehow in trepidations over the Chinese CNOOC?

America/Europe actually have an unsavory history and pattern of behavior with negative consequences on Nigeria/Africa... slavery, colonialism, dilution of language, culture, religion etc

Do Chinese compel Nigerians to speak Cantonese or Mandarin? or to worship Chinese Gods? NOOOOO NOOOO

America/Europe through slavery, colonialism, apartheid, neocolonialism and economic domination... political manipulations etc imposed their cultures, religion, languages etc

I have nothing against doing business with the Chinese... Nigerians and Africans have put our eggs in one American/European basket for far too LONNNNNGGGG

[LoveNigeria]

Mr. Nigerian has two wallets. Both wallets were stolen by two different thieves.

Thief number one returns wallet number one to Mr. Nigerians with one-fifths of wallet’s content intact.
Mr. Nigerian is angered, justifiably, at Thief number one, for stealing at all and depriving Mr. Nigerian what is rightly his. Mr. Nigerian wants and demand arrest, trial and imprisonment for Thief number one.

Thief number two who took wallet number two, has no plans to return wallet number to Mr. Nigerian, instead, Thief number two is presently currently, planning armed violent robbery against Mr. Nigerian and what is worse? Thief number two remains unapologetic, remorseless and shameless for stealing wallet number two from Mr. Nigerian to begin with, and now, with further impunity, Thief number two plans more violent armed robberies against the harmless Mr. Nigerian.

During all of these, Mr. Nigerian see Thief number two, hiding in plain sight, and Mr. Nigerian has done nothing to hold Thief number two to hold him to account for stealing Mr. Nigerian’s wallet number two. No investigations, charges and or trial is pending against Thief number two.

But Mr. Nigerian is squandering his precious time shrill-shouting and lampooning Thief number one, the one who actually returned Mr. Nigerian’s wallet number one with some contents still in it.

Mr. Nigerian gets loud with sanctimonious sermons, excoriating Thief number one, while Thief number two is left alone, with peace of mind, audacity and impunity to plan his next and more violent attack against Mr. Nigerian, AGAIN!

In the above analogies, I take the view that Thief number one is comparatively a thief with some conscience left in him. But without saying that he is a model citizen or saint and angel.

Thief number one must be regretting coming out to deliver the wallet number one to Mr. Nigerian? No good deeds goes unpunished? OK, lets call it "good" deeds


In all of these, it should be understood, that stealing or theft is not advocated. So, there is really no good thief, except that, comparatively, there are attenuating and extenuating circumstances to consider in these cases.

Your logic often amazes me.

Solution: Both thief number one and two should be tied to the stakes and shot just like they use to do to armed robbers when they were in power. This will send a strong message to potential thieves that you can't get away with robbery simply by paying tithes from the proceeds.

There's a serious danger in celebrating thief number one confession/restitution/alleged turnaround, the young impressionable minds (the next generation) will construe thief number one's celebrity/elder status as a reward (which is really what it is), taking away the sense of shame, loss of family honor/name that should properly be associated with being a thief. BTW these are some of the intrinsic values of virtually all tribes in Nigeria that is in danger of extinction.

[I Love Nigeria]

LoveNigeria wrote

There's a serious danger in celebrating thief number one confession/restitution/alleged turnaround, the young impressionable minds (the next generation) will construe thief number one's celebrity/elder status as a reward (which is really what it is), taking away the sense of shame, loss of family honor/name that should properly be associated with being a thief. BTW these are some of the intrinsic values of virtually all tribes in Nigeria that is in danger of extinction.

1. You missed the point... I never said anything about celebrating ANY of the thieves

2. You also missed the fact that NO ONE is doing anything right now about Thief number two

3. You also missed my point in comparative analysis... the others like Danjuma who are not being sought and not being tried or scheduled for ANY punishments... so what do the impressionable mind see and witness in all that NOW?

4. You also missed the global point about Robber Baron and Robbin Hoods outside of Nigeria... the Astor family, Rockefeller, family, the Vanderbilt family, the JP Morgan family, the Carnegie family... Google and see what was their source of wealth?

Punish unrepentant known thieves before you aspire to damn and lampoon Danjuma who is in your own words, engaged in confession/restitution/alleged turnaround

And then, I assure you that, the impressionable minds in your hometown and mine, would see and decipher the difference.

[Eja]

Eja In my eyes, you look and sound like the US Supreme Court when you wrote

The US Supreme Court in a recent judgment, permitted corporations to fund political campaigns to their heart's content. Which in effect/implication, means a tobacco company or polluter, can sponsor candidates, who may end up, producing regulations with predictable tenor and outcomes for the society... Senator Paul Adujie sponsored by Wal-Mart or Target, who now writes labor laws in complete disregard to OSHA or minimum wage?

I need to drink some double-expresso to be in a position to ruminate about this concept of bribing to fight the rot in a broken system... a system broken by bribery and corruption... this whole concept of bribing to do the right thing is .... em, em, em, a little bizarre ... but you insist that this is mere semantics - polemics on my part?

Eja wrote




You insist that bribe is the same thing by another name... as in carrot and stick, pleasure and pain, reward and punishment... salary or bonus or inducement? Anything given to procure a behavior or conduct... to do or to refrain... quite interesting academic or abstract debate.

More double-expresso please!

Considering the contortions you are engaged in here, I would say that you need something stronger than espresso - you need something with psychotropic qualities...

The similarities you are drawing between what I said and what has happened in the USA can only occur to someone with comprehension problems.

In the USA, the Supreme Court decision has been interpreted as one which will allow corporations to fund political candidates while still carrying on with business as usual.

Meanwhile, nowhere have I said here that ones like Danjuma should carry on with business as usual....if I lie, please produce the words that I used to make this suggestion.

What I have said (repeatedly) is that if this man is truly contrite and, if he truly wishes to makes restitution for the damage his activities over the past 40 years have caused, then he should start using his ill-gotten gains to fund positive changes in the polity.

You on the other hand are here insisting that as long as he drops some crumbs on the floor, he can carry on with business as usual. Then you set yourself up as some sort of moral arbiter....you need to do some serious reflection on the position you have taken here.

[I Love Nigeria]

Eja, You know, when some persons are unable to muster superior arguments, they lazily resort to headbanging name callings, and casting aspersions.

Eja's love notes to me reads as follws:

Considering the contortions you are engaged in here, I would say that you need something stronger than espresso - you need something with psychotropic qualities...

The similarities you are drawing between what I said and what has happened in the USA can only occur to someone with comprehension problems.


In the USA, the Supreme Court decision has been interpreted as one which will allow corporations to fund political candidates while still carrying on with business as usual.

Meanwhile, nowhere have I said here that ones like Danjuma should carry on with business as usual....if I lie, please produce the words that I used to make this suggestion.

What I have said (repeatedly) is that if this man is truly contrite and, if he truly wishes to makes restitution for the damage his activities over the past 40 years have caused, then he should start using his ill-gotten gains to fund positive changes in the polity.

You on the other hand are here insisting that as long as he drops some crumbs on the floor, he can carry on with business as usual. Then you set yourself up as some sort of moral arbiter....you need to do some serious reflection on the position you have taken here.

1. Advocating bribery is ... immoral, reprehensible and repugnant... and given the past and present state of affairs in Nigeria... advocating bribery as public policy is, as you have, repeatedly here... IS,
BUSINESS AS USUAL

2 All Nigerian looters are in the same glass house, but, you chose to throw stones, SELECTIVELY, merely at the direction of Danjuma, while others are there in plain sight?

3. Can you tell the world why an apologetic, contrite and repentant-remorseful person deserve our ire and the death penalty? While all others, are, quite unlike Danjuma, are still acting with impunity?

4. I once practiced Domestic Relations or Matrimonial Law, and here, this is similar to attempts at collecting alimony and or Child Support... where you have two deadbeat dads, one is making payments on the outstanding arrears and repentant... the other deadbeat dad is doing nothing and he is there right in your face, buying gold and necklaces and new cars.... and you, are more interested in jailing the guy who has made some payments on outstanding arrears? How about the other guy who is not paying and yet, displaying his wealth ostentatiously?

NOTE that there is no dispute that both deadbeat dads are deadbeats... with alimony and child supports owing and due.

[Eja]

Eja, You know, when some persons are unable to muster superior arguments, they lazily resort to headbanging name callings, and casting aspersions.

This clichéd behaviour where, at the slightest turn in the wind, ones on NVS start complaining about "name-calling" has now become sickening.

Do you know what name-calling is?

And, before you moan some more about how "aspersions" are being cast upon you, realise that you are being offensive when your so-called "superior arguments" are based upon a steadfast refusal to acknowledge the context within which the other person is making a point.

Your deliberate recourse to intellectual dishonesty is offensive.

And you continue with it...look....

1. Advocating bribery is ... immoral, reprehensible and repugnant... and given the past and present state of affairs in Nigeria... advocating bribery as public policy is, as you have, repeatedly here... IS,
BUSINESS AS USUAL

....you know the words "immoral", "reprehensible" and, "repugnant". And yet, here you are, hailing an unrepentant 'gentleman' who, backed up by all the coercive might at the disposal of the Nigerian rentier State that he had a most influential hand in creating, continues to deprive other people of their resources.

.....here you are, expounding your warped and self-satisfied definition of what moral rectitude means.

What an upside universe you exist in...now tell me, in this realm, do you have the word "hypocrisy"?

2 All Nigerian looters are in the same glass house, but, you chose to throw stones, SELECTIVELY, merely at the direction of Danjuma, while others are there in plain sight?

Man you are really reaching here.

What are you trying to imply?

Why not just speak plainly? I guess now that you know for sure that I am not in the 'One Nigeria' tribe, everything I say must be suspect abi?

Enjoy yourself wit dat....

There is nothing "selective" about the comments I have made. By making this allegation, you show how far from reality you are prepared to travel to make a point (regardless of how anorexic the point is).

We are talking about Danjuma here so, I expressed my opinion. Talk about the others and, if they are as equally culpable as Danjuma, I will "throw stones" at them.

Or have you examples that show me praising anyone from the thieving tribe of 'One Nigerians' that Danjuma belongs to?

3. Can you tell the world why an apologetic, contrite and repentant-remorseful person deserve our ire and the death penalty? While all others, are, quite unlike Danjuma, are still acting with impunity?

Sometimes, I suspect that you are writing satire.... but in case you are serious, then could you please present here the very words that Danjuma used to express his 'contrition', 'remorse', 'repentance', etc. Do this or, apologise for your blatant and ridiculous attempt to distort the truth.

I once practiced Domestic Relations or Matrimonial Law, and here, this is similar to attempts at collecting alimony and or Child Support... where you have two deadbeat dads, one is making payments on the outstanding arrears and repentant... the other deadbeat dad is doing nothing and he is there right in your face, buying gold and necklaces and new cars.... and you, are more interested in jailing the guy who has made some payments on outstanding arrears? How about the other guy who is not paying and yet, displaying his wealth ostentatiously?

NOTE that there is no dispute that both deadbeat dads are deadbeats... with alimony and child supports owing and due.

Please stop making up these ridiculous metaphors.

Danjuma was not taking what belonged to people who are related to him; he has been forcibly dispossessing (and, continues to forcibly dispossess) people who are not of his ethnicity or, related to him in any other way.

He has traveled hundreds of miles to take by force from other people. So, the first order of business is not to hail him for saying he will return, as 'charity', a fraction of his loot. The first order of business is to condemn him (along with every other so-called oil magnate who has no natural claim to the resources of the Niger Delta) for persisting with armed robbery.

Comparing people like these - men and women who have literally destroyed the lives of millions - to 'deadbeat' dads is a joke in very bad taste.

[I Love Nigeria]

I have no more interests in your tirades and rigmarole.

I wrote a full-length article or opinion piece, which is still here, witth the facts laid bare.

I have tried prodigiously to respond to your positions, even when the were red herrings and repugnant and warped-twisted, in my opinion.

You are entitled to your pungent-putrid idea of using bribery as tool for public policy.


I have bigger and better fish to fry, I will henceforth cease to participate in your cyclical, back and forth abuse, which you call debate here.


My idea of intellectual exchange or exchange of ideas in public debates/discourses, is certainly different from yours.