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nobiorah
Apr 24, 2003, 07:14 AM
THE GUARDIAN
4/24/03

Dangote gets concessions for cement production

From Madu Onuorah, Abuja
THE Federal Government yesterday rolled out several incentives to an indigenous conglomerate, the Dangote Group, in its efforts to encourage Nigerians to invest locally.

The business concession is to enable the company actualise an $850 million
project involving the establishment of cement production plants in three
locations in Nigeria.

Minister of Transport, Chief Ojo Maduekwe, announced after the Federal
Executive Council (FEC) meeting in Abuja, yesterday that the incentives
included the granting of pioneer status to the company in the area of cement
production for seven years.

This means that within the period, no new cement plant will be established in the country. Other incentives include the granting of 2.5 per cent duty on all plants, machinery and quarry equipment, exemption from payment of the Value Added Tax (VAT) on all plant, machinery and quarry equipment and the payment of only five per cent duty on construction materials not available within the country.

In its request to the council for establishment of the plants in Ogun, Kogi
and Cross River states, the Dangote Group requested from the Federal
Government the following investment palliatives;


pioneer status for 10 years;

exemption of payment of duties on all plant, machinery and quarry equipment;

exemption of payment of VAT on all plant, machinery and quarry equipment;

exemption of payment of duties on construction materials not locally
available;

massive road construction at sites of the plant by the Federal Government,
and;

permission to import five million metric tonnes of bulk cement at a maximum
rate of five per cent duties.

The three plants located in Ibesha, Obagana and Odukpani, are expected to
produce 4.3 million metric tonnes of cement yearly by the year 2005.

Maduekwe explained, "we are doing this to serve notice that this government is willing to support companies which are willing to vote (for the country) with their cheque books. They need to put their money in their country. This is a government that is encouraging the business class. We are ready to do it forother companies as we did to Dangote".

Other decisions of the council include the approval of a new energy policy for Nigeria and approval of a contract for provision of 2,000 telephone lines and 240 digital telephones to Gboko, Benue State. The contract is worth N130.6 million.

Colo
Apr 24, 2003, 02:09 PM
Brother Nobiorah,
While I'd accept that in politics, one often rewards the major contributors (was he ever for OO), I am very worried with these monopolistic words as spelt out in your posted article:



... This means that within the period, no new cement plant will be established in the country....



Is that legal in a Democratic dispensation? Maybe. Was that the same thing Bill Gates enjoyed with Microsoft, before Neophytes, like yours truly, joined the bandwagon a lil' too late and lost all my marriage dowries - the start of my sore butt?

myhotbrain
Apr 24, 2003, 04:40 PM
Dear Forumites;

I am very happy to read of this development about Dangote and his cement production facilities. This is the kind of investment atmosphere, which usually accompany a stable political environment. It is instructive to note that, this kind of government assistance and oligopoly market approach (for selective product/services) is what made many advance country to be rapidly industrialized. Only in Nigeria would intellectuals and pepper soup joint analysts would always insist on doing socio-polit-economics agenda based on the text books written by Western elites without recourse to the practicabilty of such agenda on our own Nation. Nigeria needs men of Dangote calibre to inject massive funds and with the assistance of government develop our basic industries. Did anyone remember the huge tarrifs the American government placed on import steel? How about the $100 billion approved to aid Farmers in the next ten years, which the Bush's government initiated? America had and will always go to fight a war in order to assist and prop its economy whenever there is a prolonged reccession, despite its huge budget deficit, Congress just approved about $79 billion, a little more than the President asked for. Is it news to anyone that, most of the beneficiary of these government largese would be people and businesses that support the present administration during political fundraising. But, everyone is a winner in America, because, through this fund injection, more jobs are created, stocks prices appreciates, mutual funds managers are elated to reap massive reward for investors, 401k's appreciates. And please, don't expect the governments' account to ever be in Black; it will always be in Red: America's deficit is somewhere around $7 trillion and only 280 million people. We in Nigeria are 120 million and our debt is just a paltry $38 billion. How can we ever compete in the Global market if the government cannot inject, assist and protect our local industries. Our people are too sentimental so much so, that we will always retard our own progress out of sheer jealousy and hatred for one another. Dangote is from the North, Adenuga who has the telecommunication license is from the South, so also is Emeka Offor; they are all putting their energy and monies where there mouths are, let's cheer them, patronize them, encourage them, praise them, pray that one day, we would be able to join them to make Nigeria great.

Kudos to Obasanjos' government for acheivement in the area of economic development of our Nation.
Hip Hip Hip. Hurrah Huraaaaaaaaah.

Shame on you haters. You are the ones in America and England who reside here in these countries but never grasp the mechanism by which they evolve, though you learn, but you never understand, you see, but your vision are blurred, you hear, but faintly, you cried discrimination from the White people, but you never help yourself economically or politically. Do you want to be neocolonized all over again? I have said it before, and I am saying it again: Americans too have political and ethnic variations, but they always act in unison for economic achievement either at home or abroad. Where were you haters when the Congress of the United States approved of Pre. Bush Iraq's policy? There is a lot going on behind the scene; just read, see, hear and use your sense. Fela sang, "...if you dey follo follo make you open eye, open ear, Mr follo follo make you open hear, open eye..." and "teacher teacher no be lecturer be you name...make you no teach me nonsense..." Majority of our 'bookery' people condemn Fela, they said 'Fela dey smoke Mariuana, cannabis, na Amugbo, e no sabi wetin him dey talk.' In retrospect, who is the fool now? You be the judge.

I live here in America, and I see how people from foreign lands owned all of the businesses in the Black communities, while on the other hand Blacks do not own any business in other peoples' communities. Blacks are daily crying of oppression and marginalization, discrimination and more, but they refused to take charge of their economic base nor understand the political game. They patronize all others but themselves, they never trust their bretherns enough to invest in them, they don't help to lift each other up. Research says Blacks has about $400 billion buying power, If majority of these money revolves around their communities, it would have made a lot of positive impact. Rather they will give the money to the churches for their Pastors and Revs. to live in opulence. Did Jesus Christ of Nazareth lived in opulence during his time? Now, who's fooling who? When are we going to be 'our brother helpers and keepers?' When? When? May be when they will come to Africa to buy more slaves, because majority of our people are fools. Do we ever learn? There is corruption everywhere in all corners of the world. I remembered in the early 90's, a report by GAO--an agency of US govt--indicted the Pentagon (Defence Dept.) of paying about $600 for a toilet paper. Is the toilet paper made of gold? When a friend of mine arrived the US in the late 80's, he lamented that he had thought that the roads of US were tarred by glass, I laughed and said, 'but at least it was well constructed and regularly maintained.' The import of this is that, while the price paid by Pentagon for toilet papers was too much and fraudulent, at least the contractor would still provide good and quality toilet papers. In Nigeria, contractors not only overcharged, they will in addition performed woefully. What do you call that my friends? I say it's "unpatriotic greed." Plain and simple. That is what is prevalent in all of our (Blacks) communities everywhere on the face of this Earth. When are we going to change? The last presidential election in America was marred by irregularities, aggrieved parties went to the Court of Law, where it was amicably resolved, losers congratulate winners, Country moves forward for the benefits of their people. International communities sent congratulatory messages. Immediately, they began to remedy the bad situation in preparation for next elections. In over 200 years, I cannot recall of America having to cancel election in total to re-do it all over again. And this is not to say that American elections has always been perfect since inception; they are still learning and making amend where neccessary. Only in Africa, Black world and in Nigeria would ethnic sentiments prevents our intellectuals from seeing reason.
Please my people, stop all of these charade and mature so that Nigeria can move forward for our own benefits.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Ajibs
Apr 24, 2003, 11:14 PM
Quick Observations,

1. The apparent exclusivity to the Dangote company for seven years is troubling..but not unusual, I believe the Phamarcetical industry in the United States gets similar concessions when new drugs are put on the market.

2. Those three plants will employ a lot of Nigerians hopefully, Giving Nigerians a good means of living.

3. What happens ot the price of cement, hopefully it will fall or stabilize, allowing for more construction to take place.

4. Like the Halliburtons, Brown and Roots, Bechtels and co. of America, Dangote is gradually becoming a beamoth on the Nigerian business sector, it remains to be seen if this is good or bad. thats what happens in capitalist states. Some simply become stinkingly rich, whiles the poor suffer.

Kenn
Apr 25, 2003, 12:17 AM
Aji and Myhotbrain,


Aliko Dangote, at the age of 21 in 1977 was given virtually the same privileges he's got today by the military government of you guess who, Obasanjo. Here was a boy, who knew nothing about business and with no formal education, purportedly understudying his uncle, Sanusi Dantata, given the exclusive right to import cement into the country on behalf of a government involved in a spate of capital projects in those days, made possible by petrodollar. Now, does it need a genius to note that anyone given such a privilege would become an instant billionaire?

Today, by the same means, the man has managed to corner 60 percent of the Nigerian sugar market. In fact, on Mr Odili's board, under a thread initiated by our one and only Emir (the MVP thread), I took the pains to expose so many aspects of his business dealings to incontrovertibly prove that the official "backing" is indeed unhealthy. For instance, I mentioned the fact that almost all his so-called "production facilities" are located within the premises of the Apapa ports. These are old NPA properties handed over to him on the pretext that they were run down and that he was the only one willing to refurbish them! I leave you to conjecture why you think these so-called production facilities are located there. Of recent, you'd recall that some industrialists accused him of massively importing in the name of production, which led the Minister of Industries, Kola Jamodu to lead a mission purportedly to "inspect" his production facilities, and, expectedly, they scored him high, calling the complainants blackmailers. On that same thread, we read interviews where he consistently claimed to have unhindered access to the President, insisting he can get whatever he wanted from him. Did you know that Iyiorcha Ayu lost his job as Minister of Industries for insisting that a more competent and qualified bidder takes over Benue Cement?

I'm sure you're aware that Dangote is the spirit behind the so-called "Corporate Nigeria" raising billions of naira for Obasanjo's re-election. I'm sure you're also aware that he was "the young Kano businessman" that parachuted the intimidating tonnes of Ghana-Must-Go into the PDP convention ground. He's also rumoured to have backed all the PDP governorship aspirants in the South-West, including Bukola Saraki in Kwara. This is quite apart from the claim that he's the linchpin of Babangida's 2007 project - his specific brief being to create and facilitate support in the South-West for the Evil Genius. And, isn't it conveniently coincidental that he's getting this immediately after the Presidential elections? And, by the way, how does "permission to import five million metric tonnes of bulk cement at a maximum rate of five percent duties" (note that no one is taking minimum) help in the indigenous production of cement, even as we all know that the raw material abounds in our country?

There's nothing wrong with national governments supporting indigenous private enterprise in order to improve competitive advantage, but check all the relevant and successful examples, from South Korea to Japan or China and one thing you see is that they're usually directed at a group/industry; it's never done for the benefit of a single individual. What is being done with Dangote in the name of promoting indigenous business is simply crass favouritism. To put it bluntly, he's a front for those who're using their political power to provide him these privileges. It is criminal, to say the least.


CHEERS!

myhotbrain
Apr 25, 2003, 01:17 AM
Dear Kenn1;

Early this year on the Old Forum, I complained about money politics--when individual and corporations donate huge sum of money to political parties-- and I also proffer solution on how political parties can fund their Campaigns. I learned as early as sixteen year old that "it is too late to cry when the head has been cut-off." Our so called elites could have been on the tail of the president in preparation for this election, rather, many of them were busy looking for government largese. An example: where were most of the decampees who could not secure PDP ticket during the primaries, only to complain during election about how the PDP constitution favors incumbent? Should they not have read the PDP constitution in advance and request for amend? I personally have been complaining over a decade ago about how the US political parties fund their activities. Now, the US are amending their Campaign Finance Laws. By the grace of God, one of the things I hope to accomplish as a student of political science and economics is to publish a series of theses on how to move Nigeria forward. And in conclusion, I must say that there are some profound benefits on the larger society for wealthy individuals and corporations in funding Political Campaigns, but that thesis is beyond the scope of this board, at least for now.
Thank you and God Bless.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

myhotbrain
Apr 27, 2003, 03:55 AM
Dear Forumites;

Those who are shouting foul without proof. Plase hear the story of Privatization from the horse's mouth, Mallam El Rufai of BPE speaks up. What do you think?

Mallam El Rufai Speaks-up (http://www.guardiannewsngr.com/business/article02)


Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.
:smokin

PopGee
Apr 27, 2003, 06:28 AM
MYhotbrain(MHB),

I could not help but notice that rather than address the issues raised by COLO you went off on a tirade against elites in Diaspora.

You are at liberty to insist that Nigeria can only industrialize by raising its own band of Robber Barons which seems to be the same point made by the link to Malam El-Rufai.

If that is your argument, fine but the reality of the Nigerian experience suggests otherwise. Mr. Dangote has till date not developed a local sugar industry - he has instead worked for the elimination of local production to protect his lucrative import monopoly.

Ditto for his "industrialist" counterparts who enjoy import monopolies for diverse goods from sugar to rice to flour. Rather than create the Rockefellers, Carnegies, Vandabilts, Jobs or Gates what we have in Nigeria are barons of importation allowed to corner the domestic market for semi-finished products. The result stares us all in the face - a stagnant economy which solely depends on oil exports.

You also failed to note that the monopolistic excesses of the Robber Barons led to the creation of the Anti-Trust laws which are till date enforced by the SEC and a whole division of the US Justice Dept. So you risk going to jail in America for attempting to corner a market for any product or service but in Nigeria backing the winning party or having your kinsman in power guarantees that you get the monopoly of your choosing. And those who are better enlightened to express concern get slammed as arm-chair critics from abroad.

I may not be an economist but I know the difference between protecting domestic industries and granting monopolies as political patronage. The former helps to build an industrial base (even if pure free-marketers disagree) while the latter is nothing but the corruption of a nation's political-economy.

It has nothing to do either with being a so-called elite in Diaspora.

Kongi the Emir
Apr 27, 2003, 07:05 AM
Popgee & co,

Before you guys critizise and call names why not do the reasearch on the cement industry. Find out what kind of investments and regulations are involved and then find out how many cement manufacturers are in your locality before you accuse people of fraud, Chances are the cement house you originated from in naija and the one you might currently live in were made possible because on one siingle company.

PopGee
Apr 27, 2003, 08:15 AM
Emir,

You still choose to muddle up the issue here.

A free market economy thrives on competition and choice for the consumers of goods and services. Granting import monopolies to the politically well-connected is not the best way to achieve this. That is why Nigeria's "industrialists" hardly merit that title and create a seller's market to the detriment of its poor citizens.

myhotbrain
Apr 27, 2003, 01:03 PM
Dear PopGee;


Even though, I would have like to reply your challenge in an elaborate way, but, it would suffice to go straight to the issue at hand.

My support for Dangote's concession for cement production facilities are based on 3 specifics, they are: economic, social, and political--(national and international).

Economic
1) Oligopoly in economics is a market practice, in which there are only few competitive companies that can participates in it. An example of such business in America is the car industry.
In Nigeria, the cement industry is an oligopoly industry--that is--only a few companies/factories are in the market, a couple of them are: Ewekoro, Benue Cement, and the others.

Some of the reasons why a cement industry is an oligopoly are: it is highly capital intensive to develop and operate. Moreover, environmental as well as location of raw material would generally be an impediment in a Country as undeveloped as Nigeria in regard to transportation network.

For these stated reasons, the cement production in Nigeria can develop faster if the government provide all sorts of assistance like the contruction of the road network, business & tax incentives as well as the rule and regulation under which the industry must operate. Now, whether or not Dangote is the only cement producer is not the issue, the issue is would the other arms of government and its agencies perform their role of regulation and supervision of the industry? And we are not even sure about what will happen to the other cement factories. Surely Dangote or anyone else who venture into capital intensive businesses should be applauded, encouraged, and supported. Including those who are venturing into car productions. Do we not read about how the Fords', Benzes', Mercedes' and others, individually and later jointly started and grew their Auto conglomerates?

The most obvious economic good in this endeavor between Nigeria and the then Industrialized world of the 1900s' is the availability of cheap labor. This is the route to infrastructural development: Entrepreneur demands concession and incentives (roads for accessibility to factory, tax incentives, timed-quasi-monopoly status--in order to recoup profits, before more competition, e.t.c.) from government--Local or National--:government delivers; business delivers products, people get jobs; business recovers cost of productions; government tax employees and other associated companies e.t.c. The society at-large benefits from all the 'round-tripping.'

Social
2) The Social reason for which I am supporting Dangote/Cement production is the simple fact that, I commend him and I believe that many other Nigerians who has money overseas and within Nigeria owes Nigerians' the benefit and opportunity, which their invested wealth would generate. Though, their invested wealth should be protected and adequate physical security should be provided. Whereby, we should not always be waiting for international investors, though we should always work with them in tandem for the benefit of all concerned. Is it any or new news to anyone out there, that there are quite a large number of Nigerians whose total wealth could be conservatively estimated to be worth tens of billion in dollars; most of which is overseas? Did we not hear about how the Foreign Secret Services has the list of the richest Nigerians? Was this not part of the reason why the Paris Club and IMF refused to forgive Nigerias' debt? When Obasanjo started his world exploration in search of foreign investors, according to news account: most of the investors are waiting for the success of governments management of the elections and the instability, which the different component parts are causing into the Nigerian polity. Indeed, part of the reasons why America want/is spreading democracy is because of the conducive atmosphere that it creates for business to operate successfully. By this I mean the protection of invested wealth. We must ask ourselves: if due to our own internal and selfish undoing, we are unable to attract foreign investors in droves, should we also deny our brethrens the opportunity to invest their wealth either stolen or not? Those investors who comes from overseas, do we know the source of their wealth? Or should we always assume that investors are Multinational Corporations alone and not individuals like you and I ? Even if PopGee--yourself--were to be a foreigner and received such concessions from government, Nigerians would not cry as much; we seem to have what I call: "Black-phobia" as a group of people: one against the other.
For Nigeria to work and develop as it should, everyone must participate in its development. All arms of government--executive, judiciary and the legislative--in tandem, so that one can check on what the other is doing.

Politics ( National & International )
3) Now whether Obasanjos' government goofed by its action is debatable, in light of the prevailing circumstances in Nigeria. America and most other industrialized Nations went through the same process of economic-political-social--order, and, are still going through the circle. An example can be presently found in the recently announced awards of government contracts for the re-contruction of Iraq. When in February or so, I informed forum members as to the effect of the monitization of the political system, I might have looked like a fool. Some state governors raised billions of Naira from the business communities and wealthy individuals--they are sure to recoup their investment--, but should be mainly through legitimate means like awards of contracts and or business and tax incentives.

During the 2000 US presidential election campaigns, the current President and the Republican Party raised several hundred millions dollars from both the public and private organizations. In fact, immediately after the election of Pre. Bush, the party was able to raise a couple of million dollars more for transitional purposes, when the government agency responsible was still in doubt as to the validity of the Presidency election. Any wonder now, why the President must always look-out for the donors favorably. The irony of it all is that, it is this kind of 'If you scratch my back--I will scratch your back--,' which spurred both the industrialized Nations' Politics and Economics and hence, responsible for their Social emancipation. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, Democracy is an Institution founded by the "Stakeholders" in the Society. The poor masses' fate rests on the true and just representation of their elected leaders, and this is why everyone must do/play a positive part. From those people who see a wolf, gratify him, and call him 'illustrious son" and those who see a thief and shelter him because of his tribes; as well as the Judge who receive bribes and taint justice; the legislators who refuse to legislate but rather seek for emoluments; and the Executives that refuses to 'put a round peg in a round hole: We must all do our part. The wise man says: "One hand cannot lift a load on top of one's head successfully."

In conclusion, rather than Nigerians' rush to condemning every move that a government makes; they should scrutinize and analyse it. That to me is what it's called constructive criticism. Based on the aforementioned believes, I disagree with those of my friends who insist that perfect competition market approach is what that is needed to operate in the cement industry in Nigeria at this present time..

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Tola Odejayi
Apr 27, 2003, 01:41 PM
MyHotBrain,

Colo and PopGee have asked you a very simple question - why has the government chosen to grant a monopoly to Dangote in the production of cement? In other words, why can't anyone else who has the capital to do so get involved in the production of cement?

Nowhere in your answer have you addressed this - in fact, you even say "whether or not Dangote is the only cement producer is not the issue". In fact this is the main issue - if Dangote is not allowed to face competition, what incentive will he have to run his company efficiently?

And then you bring the much detested nationalist argument into this matter, saying that it is better for our own people to invest in Nigeria than foreigners. Of course, it doesn't matter whether our own people are ripping us off, or whether they are producing substandard products - at least, they are our own people. But let us even assume there is some merit in this argument. Does this mean that other indigenous Nigerian producers should be shut out of the market because the government has declared a monopoly on cement production?

myhotbrain
Apr 27, 2003, 08:29 PM
Dear Shoko Loko Bangoshe;


You are either in the dark (that's not my fault) as to the meaning of 'Oligopoly' market practice and the criteria for its developments. Or you are expecting me to agree with your premise that all non-competitive business practices do not conform with any type of market approach, hence every kind of business must be based on a competitive market approach. If the latter is your believe, please endeavor to support your theory with proof and reasons in consistent with your postulation. At least, I have been able to support mine with all proof and reasons in consistence with my believes. Whether or not you agree or even comprehend such is a matter only you can expound upon.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Tola Odejayi
Apr 27, 2003, 09:53 PM
"You are either in the dark (that's not my fault) as to the meaning of 'Oligopoly' market practice and the criteria for its developments..."
I'm not sure what this has to do with the point I was making, but for what it's worth, here's a definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=oligopoly) that I agree with:

"A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors."

Note the use of the plural word sellers, as opposed a single seller in a monopoly.

"Or you are expecting me to agree with your premise that all non-competitive business practices do not conform with any type of market approach..."
I'm afraid I don't understand what you are saying here.

"...hence every kind of business must be based on a competitive market approach."
Yes, I believe this. In general, people will prefer to buy goods at lowest cost. A seller who faces competition from other sellers knows that he cannot afford to sell his goods at too high a price, or at too low a quality, because he knows that customers will go to his competitors that offer cheaper or better quality goods. Hence, the pressure is on him to seek ways of providing cheaper, better quality goods. I would have thought this was fairly obvious to the most cursory student of human nature, but I guess you must have your reasons for asking for proof.

I cannot see anywhere in your post where you have explained why giving Dangote a monopoly to produce cement is economically a good idea.

myhotbrain
Apr 27, 2003, 10:16 PM
Dear Shoko Loke Bangoshe;

Here is what I have written:

Economic
1) Oligopoly in economics is a market practice, in which there are only few competitive companies that can participates in it. An example of such business in America is the car industry.
In Nigeria, the cement industry is an oligopoly industry--that is--only a few companies/factories are in the market, a couple of them are: Ewekoro, Benue Cement, and the others.

Some of the reasons why an cement industry is an oligopoly are that, 1). it is highly capital intensive to develop and operate. Moreover, environmental as well as location of raw material would generally be an impediment in a Country as undeveloped as Nigeria in regard to transportation network. "

Please read and assimilate. First, we do not yet know what wiil become of the existing cement companies. Second: Yes, Dangote can hold a timed-monopoly--that is, hold monopoly on cement production for a limited time of say 7 years--until, government review its business practices to conclude whether or not admission of other business participants is justifiable. This is in the initial believe and understanding of the high cost involved in the production of cement. If you remember, the reason why States are involved in the cement industry is because of the location of raw materials and the high capital requirement for its production. Sellers or producers otherwise known as manufacturers represents the same thing: They are sometimes called Entreprenuers depending on the term employed to suit your purpose gramatically. All of these are economics parlance.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain

:smokin

Talk IT
Apr 27, 2003, 10:33 PM
Monopoly is bad, whether for politicals patrons or foriegn firms. At least i still remember one thing from my economic studies.:rolleyes

Tola Odejayi
Apr 27, 2003, 10:47 PM
MyHotBrain,

I've never said I have a problem with oligopolies - as you say, given the cost of setting up some industries, oligopolies are a fact of life in the free market.

But are you saying that it is right for the government to stop other indigenous entrepreneurs from entering the cement production market? Even if these entrepreneurs are willing and able to enter the market? Must Dangote's gain be their loss?

myhotbrain
Apr 27, 2003, 11:48 PM
Dear Shoko Loke Bangoshe;


As long as you agree in principle with the Oligopoly market approach for some certain industries in the Country. Time--how long is business in operation?-- success or failure, which such enterprise produced is/should be the major determinant of whether or not more able competitors are allowed in the market. But of course, politics, based on Social/Nationalism/Economic responsibility is another component, which determine the entrance of viable competitor into an Oligopoly industry. Because of issue of National Security certain Oligopoly enterprise cannot be competitive to accommodate foreigners in its fold. Government in addition may/would have subsidized such enterprise in order to appease the masses. An example is the Refinnery of Oil in Nigeria.

I do not support the 'grant of an 'indefinite' oligopoly market/license to or on any enterprise.

Thank you.

Peace and Love;

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Tola Odejayi
Apr 28, 2003, 12:07 AM
MyHotBrain,

I asked about whether it was right to prevent indigenous investors from participating in the production of cement, but your answer was in no way related to my question - you ended up talking about national security and foreign investors (in fact, it is questionable as to how much of a security threat foreign investors really represent). Well, I can't force you to answer my questions, so I will leave you in peace. Have a good day.

myhotbrain
Apr 28, 2003, 01:03 AM
Dear Shoko Loko Bangoshe;

I do not have all of the facts to give you the type of definitive answer that you are seeking. For example, I still do not know of what will become of the hitherto existing cement companies.

However, number of initial cement producers as well as numbers of outlet--based on viability--in addition to the length of time cement company/ies is/are in operation from the beginning of current concession and success or failure of the cement production at the end of the duration of the concession. This success or failure of cement production would be determine amongst others, by determinants of demand and determinants of supply in the cement market industry. Time is the solace in which we place economic hopes upon. There is no one who will ever know for sure how any enteprises would fair in any or every environment. This is so because, other than market forces, castatrophic events as well as untimely exhaustion of raw materials are a combined forces to reckon with. The US Airlines industry is a good example of how unforseen market forces can combined to reck havoc on business plans. Despite the fact that the US economy has entered a mild recession in the early 2000's, the effect of 911 and the subsequent 'war on terrorism', which later culminated onto the invasion of Iraq has combined to ruin most of the biggest players in the Airlines industry. Aside from massive government financial and other incentives, employees through their unions are daily giving concession to prevent American Airlines from going belly-up.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Kenn
Apr 28, 2003, 04:32 AM
Myhotbrain,


>>>Dear Kenn1;

Early this year on the Old Forum, I complained about money politics--when individual and corporations donate huge sum of money to political parties-- and I also proffer solution on how political parties can fund their Campaigns. I learned as early as sixteen year old that "it is too late to cry when the head has been cut-off." Our so called elites could have been on the tail of the president in preparation for this election, rather, many of them were busy looking for government largese. An example: where were most of the decampees who could not secure PDP ticket during the primaries, only to complain during election about how the PDP constitution favors incumbent? Should they not have read the PDP constitution in advance and request for amend? I personally have been complaining over a decade ago about how the US political parties fund their activities. Now, the US are amending their Campaign Finance Laws. By the grace of God, one of the things I hope to accomplish as a student of political science and economics is to publish a series of theses on how to move Nigeria forward. And in conclusion, I must say that there are some profound benefits on the larger society for wealthy individuals and corporations in funding Political Campaigns, but that thesis is beyond the scope of this board, at least for now.
Thank you and God Bless.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.<<<



After reading your response above and those addressed to PopGee and Shoko, I cannot but note that you seem to have problems providing direct answers to simple questions and also this knack of going off tangent whenever you find a particular rebuttal too challenging to address.






>>>Dear Shoko Loko Bangoshe;

I do not have all of the facts to give you the type of definitive answer that you are seeking. For example, I still do not know of what will become of the hitherto existing cement companies.<<<



Isn't it obvious what would become of the "existing cement companies" when they are expected to compete in the same market and environment with Mr Dangote? Isn't it obvious what will happen to the rest where ONE MAN is given monopoly and outrageously generous incentives on tax, imports and machinery? Isn't it obvious what will happen when they're all supposed to be selling at some market price to the same consumers? Well, I'll tell you the likely effect - these other producers will find they cannot 'compete' on price level, even if they manage to move mountains to produce. In no time, some of them will close shops. The singularly-backed Mr Dangote might even be buying whole companies, stocks and machinery for a song. In other words, he would be cruising his way to a de facto monopoly in the real sense of the word through government backing. And the ultimate losers? The hapless consumers of course!






>>>... There is no one who will ever know for sure how any enteprises would fair in any or every environment. <<<



Of course, we know what will happen in this particular case, government having rigged the "environment" in favour of Mr Dangote. He will simply fix price, make as much "profit" as he wishes, while the others are declaring losses or bailing out of the industry before they're hit with bigger cudgels from official quarters!




>>>This is so because, other than market forces, castatrophic events as well as untimely exhaustion of raw materials are a combined forces to reckon with. The US Airlines industry is a good example of how unforseen market forces can combined to reck havoc on business plans. Despite the fact that the US economy has entered a mild recession in the early 2000's, the effect of 911 and the subsequent 'war on terrorism', which later culminated onto the invasion of Iraq has combined to ruin most of the biggest players in the Airlines industry. Aside from massive government financial and other incentives, employees through their unions are daily giving concession to prevent American Airlines from going belly-up.<<<


As usual, you've gone on discussing issues unlikely and indeed unrelated to the virtual monopoly given Mr Dangote.

myhotbrain
Apr 28, 2003, 05:02 AM
Dear Kenn1;


Those who lacks knowledge in a particular field, and refused to learn when opportuned to, are depriving themselves of the pleasurable benefits derives therefrom: POWER.

My dear Kenn, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. Monopoly and Oligopoly in economics' parlance are not the same. The only good you can do for yourself now, is to study basic economics to know the meaning of each and their applicability. Yellow is not Red and, Black is not White.

Because of the fact that you can not present your case in an intellectual manner, while you remained stuck with the term 'monopoly' does convinces me that you are not as savvy as I had imagined. Even Shoko Loke Bangoshe alluded to the economics meaning of Oligopoly.

If you cannot refute the principled and intellectual meaning of my thesis with an equally or better principled and intellectual response, I will give you the last laugh. You decieve no one but yourself.

I remain your brother though, no matter what. I will always be my brothers' helper and keeper.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Kenn
Apr 28, 2003, 08:07 AM
Myhotbrain,


>>>Dear Kenn1;


Those who lacks knowledge in a particular field, and refused to learn when opportuned to, are depriving themselves of the pleasurable benefits derives therefrom: POWER.<<<


Thank you once again for proving me right!



>>>My dear Kenn, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. Monopoly and Oligopoly in economics' parlance are not the same. <<<


And who said they are the same?




>>>The only good you can do for yourself now, is to study basic economics to know the meaning of each and their applicability. Yellow is not Red and, Black is not White. <<<


The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines OLIGOPOLY as "a market situation in which each of a few producers affects but does not control the market".

Note: It speaks of "each of a few producers" and the fact that none controls the market. So, an example would be where a group of four producers control the cement market 24, 26, 25 and 25 percentage points respectively. All generally have almost equal share in the market; none controls the market outright. That's an oligopoly. It is not open to many but a few, but not controlled by one.

The same dictionary gives the following definitions of MONOPOLY:
(1)&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
(2)&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp exclusive possession or control
(3)&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp a commodity controlled by one party
(4)&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp one that has monopoly

Again, one little dictionary I have here defines it as:
1 (a) the exclusive possession or control of trade in a commodity or service. (b) this conferred as a privilege by the State.
2 (a) a commodity or service that is subject to a monopoly. (b) a company etc. that possesses a monopoly.


So, the question is which one is Dangote, by virtue of the report and what the likely effect of government action in his SINGULAR favour will be? He cannot be said to be part of oligopoly anymore, because though that was part of what he belonged to, but by virtue of the new privileges, he's taken control of the market as one single supplier. He could only have remained part of the oligopoly if government action was to favour him and a select group of suppliers equally. Though, we are told that government is prepared to do same for others, the fact is that today he's the SINGULAR beneficiary.

Is he then a monopoly? Strictly speaking, no, being that there are still these other suppliers and producers technically still around. However, the ultimate effect of the privilege he's been granted is that even the little market share these ones have will be threatened by him. Obviously, whether singularly or jointly, they cannot threaten him, while he singularly can put the rest out of business, by virtue of the scandalous concessions exclusively granted him. In that context, we can say this is some kind of monopoly. That is why I described it as A VIRTUAL MONOPOLY and posited that by the time the full policies take effect, "he would be cruising his way to a de facto monopoly in the real sense of the word through government backing". In other words, I recognize that it is not a monopoly strictly speaking yet, but only a virtual one, with a potential to be a de facto one in due course due to this favouritism.

Thus, by going on and on about 'Oligopoly', it would seem you are the one that doesn't know this difference, because OLIGOPOLY IT IS NOT, at least.





>>>Because of the fact that you can not present your case in an intellectual manner, while you remained stuck with the term 'monopoly' does convinces me that you are not as savvy as I had imagined. Even Shoko Loke Bangoshe alluded to the economics meaning of Oligopoly.<<<


Hmm...Shoko merely stated that he's got no problem with oligopoly, when you went on and on about it. That is not the same as saying he agrees with your characterization of Dangote as an oligopoly or part of an oligopoly by virtue of this new deal. And, oh, by the way, thank you for your "intellectual manners". I'm sure there are thousands out there learning from your esteemed fount.




>>>If you cannot refute the principled and intellectual meaning of my thesis with an equally or better principled and intellectual response, I will give you the last laugh. You decieve no one but yourself. <<<


Sorry Sir! I no know book sir...hmm

myhotbrain
Apr 28, 2003, 08:46 AM
Dear Kenn1;

I see that you are now referring to your dictionary for definitions. Soon, you'll consult your Economics text-book for economics terms and, which situation they are applicable to.

Neither you nor anyone else including myself has detail information about what will become of Eweko cement factory, Benue Cement and the other. But yet, everyone start to accuse Dangote of being a cement monopoly operator.

I, on the other hand, having read that Dangote's cement factories will be in 3 different areas of the country and definitely each with its own different cost of production. And knowing there is no known news of the demise of the other cement factories went ahead to defend Dangotes' concession in the cement industry as an Oligopoly market approach. But you continue to confuse yourself without proof on the matter for which you hardly known about in an attempt to be-little my work in an amateurish manner.

I have news for you:eek

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Kenn1;


Those who lacks knowledge in a particular field, and refused to learn when opportuned to, are depriving themselves of the pleasurable benefits derives therefrom: POWER.

My dear Kenn, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. Monopoly and Oligopoly in economics' parlance are not the same. The only good you can do for yourself now, is to study basic economics to know the meaning of each and their applicability. Yellow is not Red and, Black is not White.


Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

myhotbrain
Apr 28, 2003, 04:41 PM
Dear Forumites;


I remember the discussion on the source of wealth of Dangote and the headway he has made in the Nigeria consumable market and the economic sector in general.

In kenn's original response on this forum in this thread he wrote as follows:

"Aliko Dangote, at the age of 21 in 1977 was given virtually the same privileges he's got today by the military government of you guess who, Obasanjo. Here was a boy, who knew nothing about business and with no formal education, purportedly understudying his uncle, Sanusi Dantata, given the exclusive right to import cement into the country on behalf of a government involved in a spate of capital projects in those days, made possible by petrodollar. Now, does it need a genius to note that anyone given such a privilege would become an instant billionaire?"


With the above statement made by Kenn on the person of Dangote. Discernible minds would see that Kenn harbors a prejudice against Dangotes' person. His purported Dangotes' business practice was dubious duplication of Nobiorah's research, which Nobiorah posted on the Nigeriaworld.com web site. Kenn goofed by asserting that:
"...Here was a boy, who knew nothing about business and with no formal education, purportedly understudying his uncle, Sanusi Dantata,..."

As you can see above, Kenn on one swoop said Dangote 'knew nothing about business' and quickly added, 'purpotedly understudying his uncle' and this was in 1977.

Not only the did I find these statements contradictory, I also fault the premise on which they were based:

1) How did Kenn or anyone else arrived at the conclusion that Dangote knew nothing in business until he joined his uncle 1977?

2) If in fact Dangote has been in business since 1977, how long does he have to be in business before we acknowledged his business acumen?

3) For those who are spreading lies about how Dangote was a sugar and rice and cement monopolist, how about the involvement of Alhaji Wahab Iyanda Folawiyo, The Dantata's family, the Isiaku Ibrahims', the Umaru Dikkos', the Tofas, and many big-wigs Igbo importer of record in the Sugar, Rice and cement importation?

4) Does this still qualify Dangote as a monopoly? Some of our Igbo brothers are the ones who dominate the medical drugs industry, not one but many of them, does that qualify any single of them a monopoly on importation of medical drugs

5) Despite all of their cries about Dangotes' cement monopoly, they have yet to clarify what will become of the other cement companies in Nigeria before Dangote secured this present concesson?

I am not Dangote's or anyone else's crony nor do I intend to be. I am a man of my own who has learned to call spade a spade no matter whose ox is gored.

Until we hear or know what will become of the other cement producers in Nigeria, we cannot accuse Dangote of any misgivings? Even if Dangote is the sole producer of cement in Nigeria for at least 7 years according to the published account of the concession.

The fact that the report said: Dangote will establish 3 different factories in 3 different areas of the country nullifies the monopoly's posture of the enterprise. This is because, the condition of each area will be different an as such the cost of production will be different in each of the area. We must also remember that the raw material needed for cement production is not available in all parts of the country.

The characteristics of this concession giving to Dangote cement production is consistent with an Oligopoly market approach. Anyone else who refutes my claim can do so based on their own observation and economics proof. Not by insisting that monopoly is oligopoly. Though they may share some characteristics together, but they differ in conception and operation and thus has different approach to the market.

For example: Number of firms in a monopoly is always 1 (one), market price of finished product in a monopoly is determined by a single person or firm. On the other hand, numbers of firms in an oligopoly is always more than 1 (one), usually few 3,4 or 5, market price in a oligopoly is interdependent on other firms or related products.

With the above stated differences it is clear that Dangote's cement concession with the establishment of 3 firms in different geographical location in Nigeria does not qualify as a monopoly.

Thank you and God Bless.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain--now cooled down to--mycoldbrain.

:smokin

Tola Odejayi
Apr 28, 2003, 04:58 PM
The fact that the report said: Dangote will establish 3 different factories in 3 different areas of the country nullifies the monopoly's posture of the enterprise. This is because, the condition of each area will be different an as such the cost of production will be different in each of the area. We must also remember that the raw material needed for cement production is not available in all parts of the country.

The characteristics of this concession giving to Dangote cement production is consistent with an Oligopoly market approach. Anyone else who refutes my claim can do so based on their own observation and economics proof. Not by insisting that monopoly is oligopoly. Though they may share some characteristics together, but they differ in conception and operation and thus has different approach to the market.

For example: Number of firms in a monopoly is always 1 (one), market price of finished product in a monopoly is determined by a single person or firm. On the other hand, numbers of firms in an oligopoly is always more than 1 (one), usually few 3,4 or 5, market price in a oligopoly is interdependent on other firms or related products.

With the above stated differences it is clear that Dangote's cement concession with the establishment of 3 firms in different geographical location in Nigeria does not qualify as a monopoly.
MyHotBrain,

Oligopoly correlates to a demand initiated by a production of cement. When monopolistic competition inverts the supply of cement in three different locations, then the entreprise in the different locations brings about a set of different conditions which lead to oligopolistic revenue generation. So the interdependency of the characteristics of production lead to conditions which affect market price, and therefore lies the incontrovertible proof that Dangote's concession is definitely a monopoly. Q.E.D.

Peace and love,

Shoko.

myhotbrain
Apr 28, 2003, 05:43 PM
Dear Shoko Loko Bangoshe;


Amongst the criteria used to determine the different market approach are:

1) number of firms--that is-- how many different companies in the market.

2) Who determines the price of finished product and how?--is the firm/s market maker (price fixer) or price taker or whether price is interdependent on others?

3) The condition of entry in such market--is it open or inpeded?

Now, if you consider that in a MONOPOLY, only one individual firm with one product is allowed ever, and that no one else can enter the market again.

You or anyone else has not been able to establish the issue of other cement companies (what will happen to them?) in Nigeria before Dangote's concession.

In addition, Dangote will establish more than one Firm, at least 3 Firms (3 seperate firms, with standardized or differentiated products), and the duration for this concession is 7 years.

The above stated characteristics does not qualify for a monopoly stature. Instead, in my opinion qualifies for an oligopoly stature.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Tola Odejayi
Apr 28, 2003, 06:04 PM
Market criteria differentiate firm numbers from price fixing interdependency. So the openness of the market derives from the existence of standardised or differentiated products, as can be seen from the Keynesian approach to determining the macroeconomic variables in a modern economy where the impedance of competition stimulates demand in a monopolistic oligopoly. It is obvious from the foregioing, MyHotBrain, that the circumstances surrounding Dangote's concessionary award are MONOPOLISTIC in nature.

Peace and Love,

Shoko.

myhotbrain
Apr 28, 2003, 06:36 PM
Dear Shoko Loko Bangoshe;


I am very happy to see that you are almost there. But, MONOPOLISTIC in nature is not the same as a MONOPOLY in economics parlance, or is it?

Thank you for engaging me on this with proofs and reasons.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NoLongThing
Apr 28, 2003, 09:32 PM
Surely to grant a company pioneer status in an industry for a period of time is tantamount to establishing a virtual monopoly in that industry??

NextLevel
Apr 28, 2003, 09:46 PM
Myhotbrain,

To be frank, I'm quite amazed at the level of civility and respect that your co-debators have shown you while discussing with you.

They have even treated you well while you have repeatedly accused them of ignorance of economics while displaying yours.

Anyways, keep on. Soko and Kenn have given the commonly accepted meanings of monopoly and oligopoly, and most economists will tell you that monopolies come in different forms, the most important ones being those created by government privileges (meaning that they face no market competition by threat of law, or they have advantages with which others cannot meaningfully compete).

In spite of the fact that Dangote is being granted monopoly privileges (not of the most extreme sort, but of some sort), you might still support this. Well support it and produce the arguments, but please desist from accusing others of ignorance because it only reveals yours.

Tola Odejayi
Apr 28, 2003, 10:54 PM
NextLevel,

I have found out that it was my fault that MyHotBrain wasn't able to understand what I was saying. Apparently, to dialogue with him, you have employ such language as I have used in my last two posts... as you can see, it is only by doing so that we have been able to reach some sort of understanding. You would do best to follow suit if you want him to understand what you are saying.

NextLevel
Apr 29, 2003, 12:22 AM
Make I no like, you almost scared me there for a second. I thought you were writing neo-Keynesian gibberish in high falluting language with a tinge of reality for those who even try to decode.

But it seems that I was even more perceptive than I initially assumed. Thanks for the heads up.:lol

Ajibs
Apr 29, 2003, 12:27 AM
By why are you guys arguing as though what has happened in Nigeria is unheard of??? Again here we go making comparisons to DEVELOPED nations that are years ahead of us in so many business and industrial development aspects. Why compare Nigeria to South Korea, China, and Japan et al when we are nowhere near them in industrial development? South Korea now has 3 major car manufacturers how many do we have in Nigeria? VW? Peugot? I am 100% sure that in most developing nations certain businessmen get some outrageous favor as political rewards. Look to Latin America for examples. Again using the US pharmaceutical industry as a whole in the US the control billions in lobby funds that are used to swing the legislature their way. Now Dangote is one man, agreed but we all know that the pharmaceutical industry is only a hand full of companies as Myhotbrain tries to argue. Same with the aviation industry, Two companies, Lockheed Martin and Boeing control the billions that go into military machine development. (and civilian) Just last night I watched on the discovery channel that both companies were given billions of dollars to produce the next future plane for the US Air force, but only one plane was chosen, the other that lost after an expenditure of over about $1.9 billion and about 5 years of development. If I am not mistaken I think the Rockefellers had the monopoly of quite a few industries in the USA for quite along while.

From what Kenn has said of Dangote, he is obviously a VERY faithful son to Obasanjo, he is continuing from where he left off in 1977. He is reaping more from the government and also paying Obasanjo back for the "favors" I think we would be naïve to say that what Dangote has been given is peculiar to Nigeria. In most developing countries, al over African and especially in Latin America, there are numerous cases of similar deals. How many car manufacturers are there in Brazil? We have in the US, huge mega billion dollar contracts being awarded without competition or tender.

Also we must note that monopolies always exist in some areas for example in the diamond industry De Beers remains the only monopoly, rock solid, they have not be dethroned in over 50 years! They are in fact expanding to other diamond producing countries. Lastly read this story about how ELF has been mismanaged, and you will see that Nigerians are still amateurs.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...973267.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2973267.stm)
Massive French fraud

To be honest, I'd rather Dangote be given the contract and concessions, he is a businessman, he will build those industries, they will employ Nigerians, they will bring down the cost of the product a bit, I admit probably not much, and the money will be recycled in Nigeria, this is better that having our monies sitting down in Swiss bank accounts or in boxes under peoples beds. Also this is better than having some foreign company like ENRON, (ala IPP Lagos) come in and do the same chopping of our money and sending it abroad. The new cement factories will create numerous other small-scale feeder industries. Another point I should mention s that it will probably take him half of the seven years of concessions to even build the industries, I am sure he does not plan to build them all at once. In business I do not this for such large-scale investments that 7 years is a long time. I mean some industries get tax incentives of 15 years here in Baltimore!

Now let me as a typical Nigerian answer your question to Myhotbrain with a question


Colo and PopGee have asked you a very simple question - why has the government chosen to grant a monopoly to Dangote in the production of cement? In other words, why can't anyone else who has the capital to do so get involved in the production of cement?

Now tell me, Why has the GW administration granted ONLY Bechtel a $680 million dollar contract to reconstruct Iraq? And also why was Halliburton given the contract to handle the oil fires without and competitive bid? (Hint do not forget that Dick Cheney was Chairman of Halliburton)

One last question, when we speak of Dangote, are we assuming or are we absolutely sure that Dangote investments are not a GROUP of businessmen with Dangote at the forefront? I recall Kenn mentioning Sanusi Dantata, I went to school in Kano, in the early 80's Dantata practically owed Kano state, along with a guy called Ishiaku Rabiu, (IRS, Ishaiku Rabiu and Sons). If I recall as Kenn pointed out, the lone man is a front of a large family business or collection of families. As myhotbrain point out, 1977 to 2003 equates 26 years of business experience that Dangote now has, and somebody says he is an unqualified or uneducated businessman? Honestly?

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 01:17 AM
Dear NextLevel;


I do not claim to have monopoly of knowledge. I am seeking to get my point across on the little knowledge of economics that I have.

First, it is ingenious for Kenn or anyone else who want to debate on economics to rely on the Mariam Webster Dictionary for meaning of Economics terms. One can never get the true meaning from that source. Furthermore, it is even more naive for anyone to argue vehemently on any subject based on the common, street knowledge he/she possessed on that subject.

Second, neither Kenn nor anyone else including myself has any definitive knowledge about the fate of other cement companies existing in Nigeria before Dangote got his concession.

Why should they--Kenn and others--then insist on debating me with their half and incomplete knowledge.

Now for you as an erudite economics fellow:

1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?

2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?

3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.

Above are 3 different questions. Please endeavor to state your answers individually.

I intend for this forum to be an learning experience for all of us, and I am never shy to ask for help if needed.

Thank you, while I await your prompt response.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Kenn
Apr 29, 2003, 03:25 AM
Shoko,

Abeg no kill me with laugh O!





Aji,


You are only trying to muddy the water. Please, note that there's a world of difference between the state supporting a group of indigenous businessmen in an industry (possibly for competitive advantage) and the state supporting one man amongst others in the name of encouraging others. I have posed a challenge indirectly somewhere above - show me one, just one jurisdiction where such a thing as the Nigerian government did with Dangote has been done. And, lest I forget, please do not compare the US granting construction contracts to US companies with this one, nor should you compare the support received by highly sensitive and high technology industries with those granted to a mere cement importer proposing to go into manufacturing!




Myhotbrain,



>>>Dear Forumites;


I remember the discussion on the source of wealth of Dangote and the headway he has made in the Nigeria consumable market and the economic sector in general.

In kenn's original response on this forum in this thread he wrote as follows:

"Aliko Dangote, at the age of 21 in 1977 was given virtually the same privileges he's got today by the military government of you guess who, Obasanjo. Here was a boy, who knew nothing about business and with no formal education, purportedly understudying his uncle, Sanusi Dantata, given the exclusive right to import cement into the country on behalf of a government involved in a spate of capital projects in those days, made possible by petrodollar. Now, does it need a genius to note that anyone given such a privilege would become an instant billionaire?"


With the above statement made by Kenn on the person of Dangote. Discernible minds would see that Kenn harbors a prejudice against Dangotes' person. His purported Dangotes' business practice was dubious duplication of Nobiorah's research, which Nobiorah posted on the Nigeriaworld.com web site. Kenn goofed by asserting that:
"...Here was a boy, who knew nothing about business and with no formal education, purportedly understudying his uncle, Sanusi Dantata,..."<<<




Dubious duplication of Nobiorah? Well, all I can say is that you are terribly wrong. While I would gladly quote Nobiorah if I have to (because, unlike you impostor, he's worth his weight in gold intellectually), I fear that this time you are wrong. Of course, I know that he was one of the contributors to the MVP thread initiated by Emir at the old board, I cannot recall this research you speak of and of which you claim I've made a "dubious duplication". Besides, Mr Nobiorah is very much around, but I'd rather we do not drag the poor chap into an argument that does not concern him. However, there's a better way to get all this sorted: if you are sure of this so-called duplication, why don't you provide the evidence? Not that it really matters, because there's nothing in the point you're making here. Nonetheless, let me make a minor correction - though there are reports that say Sanusi Dantata is Aliko's uncle, I recall reading an interview in which he claimed he was his maternal grandfather. Again, this is not a big point; I just feel I should mention it nonetheless.

And on your claim that I harbor some prejudice against Dangote, why should I? However, if you expect me to keep quiet when he's been granted undue favouritism through Nigeria's public resources and when he unfairly exploits the political terrain to the detriment of the larger business environment, I'll not. Besides, by his status and dealings with the Nigerian government, Mr Dangote is a public figure whose every action or any public privilege he receives must come under scrutiny. I don't have to harbor prejudices against him to abhor the undue privileges he gets from the Nigerian state.





>>>As you can see above, Kenn on one swoop said Dangote 'knew nothing about business' and quickly added, 'purpotedly understudying his uncle' and this was in 1977.<<<



So, what in your opinion is the state of the business knowledge of the then 21 year-old Dangote, when at that age he was being granted an exclusive license to import cement for a government involved in massive construction projects? What business experience do you think he would have had at 21 to deserve that grant? Is there any great business breakthrough he's had pre-21 that we do not know about? You may want to, as usual, educate us.




>>>Not only the did I find these statements contradictory, I also fault the premise on which they were based:

1) How did Kenn or anyone else arrived at the conclusion that Dangote knew nothing in business until he joined his uncle 1977?<<<


As I said, why don't you let us know what you think (as a thinking man) he knew at 21 about business without formal education? What is this thing we have missed in the history of this business genius that you're not eager to let us know? And, by the way, did I say he joined his uncle in 1977?






>>>2) If in fact Dangote has been in business since 1977, how long does he have to be in business before we acknowledged his business acumen?<<<




Do you have problems with his business acumen now, twenty-six years after? I can see you have a problem with basic communication, but please, it isn't too difficult to see that I referred only to the time he was 21 (1977), when I talked of him knowing nothing in business. He may have acquired this "acumen" now, having been in it this long now; but that does not change the fact that he's been given undue advantage all his business life.





>>>3) For those who are spreading lies about how Dangote was a sugar and rice and cement monopolist, how about the involvement of Alhaji Wahab Iyanda Folawiyo, The Dantata's family, the Isiaku Ibrahims', the Umaru Dikkos', the Tofas, and many big-wigs Igbo importer of record in the Sugar, Rice and cement importation?<<<



That Dangote controls 60% of the sugar market is no fable. Do your research and let us know what you come up with. As for cement, I've read an interview where Aliko Dangote himself asserted that he's got 8 million tonnes capacity where the consumption of the whole country is still less than 10 million tonnes. And I'm talking of before these new concessions from Obasanjo's government! So, if that isn't a monopoly in effect, I'd want to know what is. The man's ambition is to push his political backers to discourage imports and be the sole national supplier! I'm not sure you know what that means in economic terms, or do you?





>>>4) Does this still qualify Dangote as a monopoly? Some of our Igbo brothers are the ones who dominate the medical drugs industry, not one but many of them, does that qualify any single of them a monopoly on importation of medical drugs<<<



And, you've said it: "...not one but many of them"! Now, can you tell me what Mr Obasanjo has done to encourage them? Did the Igbo have to conscript the government to keep others out and grant them dubious "pioneer status"? Is the medical supply business closed to all others for seven years, etc?





>>>5) Despite all of their cries about Dangotes' cement monopoly, they have yet to clarify what will become of the other cement companies in Nigeria before Dangote secured this present concesson?<<<



Now, you're being funny, aren't you?





>>>I am not Dangote's or anyone else's crony nor do I intend to be. I am a man of my own who has learned to call spade a spade no matter whose ox is gored.<<<



I didn't notice...





>>>Until we hear or know what will become of the other cement producers in Nigeria, we cannot accuse Dangote of any misgivings? Even if Dangote is the sole producer of cement in Nigeria for at least 7 years according to the published account of the concession.<<<



WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN TO THEM? WHERE WOULD THEIR PROFIT COME FROM WHEN THEY'RE BANNED FROM ESTABLISHING NEW PLANTS, COURTESY OF WHAT HAS BEEN GRANTED THE PREDATORY 'COMPETITOR'?



>>>The fact that the report said: Dangote will establish 3 different factories in 3 different areas of the country nullifies the monopoly's posture of the enterprise. <<<



Hotbrain logic! Now, your old Economics teacher must be very proud of you to read this! What a pity!



>>>This is because, the condition of each area will be different an as such the cost of production will be different in each of the area. We must also remember that the raw material needed for cement production is not available in all parts of the country.<<<



Charlatan!



>>>The characteristics of this concession giving to Dangote cement production is consistent with an Oligopoly market approach. Anyone else who refutes my claim can do so based on their own observation and economics proof. Not by insisting that monopoly is oligopoly. <<<



You are indeed the one insisting that oligopoly is monopoly by describing the virtual monopoly of Mr Dangote as an oligopoly. What some of us have been trying to do is to open your eyes to your intellectual and indeed commonsensical limitations without saying so in plenty words. Sadly, we've failed.

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 05:05 AM
Dear Kenn and Shoko Loko Bangoshe;

Without having to prolonged the issue, I would like both of you to post your answers to the same set of questions that I have asked of NextLevel.

Now for you as an erudite economics fellow:

1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?

2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?

3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.

Above are 3 different questions. Please endeavor to state your answers individually.

I intend for this forum to be an learning experience for all of us, and I am never shy to ask for help if needed.

Thank you, while I await your prompt response.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.


:smokin

Big-K
Apr 29, 2003, 05:43 AM
1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?

2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?

3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.

Oga MHB,

Without prejudice to all that's been written,

1. You are either a monopoly (e.g NEPA) or you are not. There's nothing like 'monopolistic competition'
2. Monopoly does not equal Oligopoly
3. See #1 and 2

na my own be dat!

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 06:05 AM
Dear Big K;

Before I comment on your answers, I would like to read the answers from NextLevel, Kenn and Shoko Loko Bangoshe, so that I can expose their behinds.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Arizindo Pinyon
Apr 29, 2003, 08:40 AM
Yup. Big-K is on the right track: there is no such thing as monopolistic competition: government intervention has caused, and is the cause of, monopolies, period.

If anyone can show me how government, outside of telecommunications, encourages the free-market in Nigera, please let me know.

And even if we have one or two examples, show me more!!!

Arizindo is waiting for the truth.

Wole
Apr 29, 2003, 08:48 AM
"You are either a monopoly (e.g NEPA) or you are not. There's nothing like 'monopolistic competition'" Big K

I couldn't agree more. Isn't it an oxymoron to talk of "monopolistic competition" when in actual fact by the very meaning of monopoly (absence of competition) there CAN'T be a competition, meaning the two (that is, monopoly and competition) are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

Also, Myhotbrain, is oligopoly created by restriction of entrance into the market by wouldbe players, and or favoritism to one member of the market?

I would rather think that oligopoly markets like the examples of the auto industry, beer, cement are actually created by market forces and/or production factors which then limits the number of investors that will be willing to go into that particular industry. But, it seems you are rather trying to make us believe that the few playes (e.g. 4) met and decided that they will all separately go into manufacturing of a product and then share out their geographical areas and then commit to restrict others.

NO, it is the factors of production necessary into going into such products that determines how few the players will be, and while many players are actually free to partake in the market, the forces of necessary economic factors will make some players quit, get swallowed up, and whalla the players are few again.

So, if you really are feeling lucky, brave and needs more money, and you find that hmmmn the players in the auto industry are few and they are all declaring huge profits, well you will be most welcome to delve in into the auto industry and sooner than later you'll find out why only few players are in it.

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 10:07 AM
Dear Arinzindo Pinyon and Wole;


"Bo lo ni jeko, efo ah tan e wa--If you refuse to eat cornmeal fufu,--the vegetable soup will draw you near'"

I am happy that you both participated in our basic economics discourse, but, I will not comment on your answers until, my other 3 opponents reveal their answers. The onus is on them to proof me wrong. Otherwise, they would not have earned the right to criticize my theses. I must say at this junction, that I do prepare well for my arguments, and it is a diservice for anyone to criticize my work without tangible reason or proof.

In addition, please endeavor to answer the same set of questions, which I have asked of NextLevel, Kenn and Shoko Loko Bangoshe in an numerical orders. Just for the record.

Now for you as an erudite economics fellow:

1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?

2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?

3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.

Above are 3 different questions. Please endeavor to state your answers individually.

I intend for this forum to be an learning experience for all of us, and I am never shy to ask for help if needed.

Thank you, while I await your prompt response.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.


:smokin

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 10:10 AM
(This message was left blank)

Wole
Apr 29, 2003, 10:44 AM
1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?

Nooooooo. As I posited in my last post I believe the question is redundant since by the very definition and nature of monopoly there can't be a competition. It therefore goes without saying that;
MONOPOLISTIC COMPETITION(if there is any thing like that) IS NOT EQUAL TO MONOPOLY.

2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?
NOOOOO. Monopoly is not equal to Oligopoly. Monopoly is ONE PLAYER to the exclusion of others, oligopoly is FEW PLAYERS(but still not to the exclusion of other players, in otherwords, not restrictive to entrance of other intending players).

3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.
NOOOOOOO. There is nothing like monopolistic competition in real sense of the word because there is only one player in a monopoly(and you can't compete against yourself) and from the very basic definition of the word "competition" it presupposes that there must be at least 2 players to compete. Abi no be so, as they say it takes two to tango.
Oligopoly on the otherhand does exist and it entails few players competiting amongst themselves. So, monopoly (or monopolistic competition as you may prefer) can't be equal to Oligopoly since there is competition in oligopoly amongst the few players but competition is absent within the one player show of monopoly.

You will only begin to make sense if you can convince me that monopoly exists too in a 2 or more player market, then one will have no choice but to answer all your 3 questions in the affirmative.

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 10:47 AM
Dear BBalogun and Aji;

Thank you for your contributions: Aji, your common sense approach is well noted. BBalogun, You are welcome to answer the the same set of questions, which I have asked of others before you, namely: NextLevel, Kenn, Shoko Loko Bangoshe, Arinzindo Pinyon, Big K, Wole and anyone else who may like to enlighten us as to the true meaning of the followings in economics. This is the minimum requirement in order to engage further on this debate. Since, it is incumbent upon you all to proof my assertions wrong. Here we go:

Now to you as an erudite economics fellow:

1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?

2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?

3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.

Above are 3 different questions. Please endeavor to state your answers individually.

I intend for this forum to be an learning experience for all of us, and I am never shy to ask for help if needed.

Thank you, while I await your prompt response.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 10:56 AM
Dear Wole;

Thank you for your timely response. I reserve my comments--since we are in an open forum--so that, others can state their answers. You have left room for manuever, this will help you in the nearest future.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NextLevel
Apr 29, 2003, 05:35 PM
Monopoly, in economic history, was a term used to describe industries in which there was ONE producer licensed by the government to operate exclusively. Anyone trying to compete with that producer was subject to actions being brought against them.

Now,

1) Monopolistic competition is one of those crappy and confused terms that came from Joan Robinson and Edward Robinson to describe the idea that products are unique - so if I buy a Dell PC and you buy a Hewlett Packard PC, they are different products, and Dell has a monopoly on Dell PCs. To the degree that this concept has merits (and I think it is mostly nonsense), I do not think that such merits have any place in this argument.
Monopolies were about government licensing exclusively for one company with the threat of force against competitors before the term was bastardized to include any field in which a producer had dominance, either through competition or by government order.

2) No, a monopoly does not equal an oligopoly.

3) Like I've said, monopolisitic competition is nonsense. The key aspect of a monopoly that most free-market economists concentrate their fire on is government licensing, forcible exclusion of competitors and subsidies.

Public education would come under analysis as enjoying monopoly privileges even though it faces competition. Why? Becaue the public education system is funded by the government and enjoys privileges not available to private schools. This is not about whether the system is meritorious or not - it is just how the economic analysis is done.

Microsoft would not come under monopoly analysis even though it dominates software industry. Why? It enjoys no legalized government privileges that are not available to competitors. This is again not about whether you think Microsoft is good or bad - it is just how the analysis is done.

Hopefully, this clarifies a few things. But to tell the truth, I'm not interested as much in language as in substance.

Tola Odejayi
Apr 29, 2003, 06:01 PM
Like I've said, monopolisitic competition is nonsense. - NextLevel
Why do you say this? Is it not the case that there are brands of goods/services that are so unique that they aren't easily substituted for another brand?

Big-K
Apr 29, 2003, 06:07 PM
maybe what MHB meant by monopolistic competition is a case of where 5 different fingers of the same hand are competing against each other exclusively. Example if Compaq and HP were the only computer brands available.

Even if that were the case, it's still a monopoly!

NextLevel
Apr 29, 2003, 06:13 PM
Actually, I meant Edward Chamberlain (not Robinson).


Why do you say this? Is it not the case that there are brands of goods/services that are so unique that they aren't easily substituted for another brand? - Soko

Elaborating on my point #1, well, that is like saying that you can't easily substitute Soko for NextLevel, or that products are different from other products in one regard or another, but that IS the essence of competition in the first place - the fact that there are differences in needs, quality, modes and methods of satisfaction etc.. This is more or less a fact of life to varying degrees. That it deserves exclusive study is a bit puzzling to me, which is why I consider it nonsense. But it might have its merits. In this discussion, I do not think so.

To cut a long story short, monopolistic competition is what competition was in the first place.

Arizindo Pinyon
Apr 29, 2003, 06:19 PM
"I am happy that you both participate in our basic economics discourse, but, I will not comment on your answers until, my other 3 opponents reveal their answers. The onus is on them to proof me wrong. Otherwise, they would not have earned the right to criticize my theses. I must say at this junction, that I do prepare well for my arguments, and it is a diservice for anyone to criticize my work without tangible reason or proof." -- HOTBRAIN.


Hotbrain,

You have already failed before you started.

In Logic, according to the Onus of Proof principle, the onus is on he who asserts a principle or fact to back it up. The onus is not on his questioners.

So, right out of the gate, your car has crashed.

NoLongThing
Apr 29, 2003, 06:22 PM
Mr Hotbrain,
Personally I do not see any reason to engage an argument in a seemingly clear case as the above. The taste of a good meal they say is in its eating and what I mean by this vis a vis the Dangote case is that from my own initial observations of the details disclosed thus far, I would say that there are symptoms of the establishment of a virtual monopoly aided by the government.

Monopolies anywhere are not known to be efficient by their very nature especially given the fact that their pre-eminence in their industry allows them to dictate prices which cannot be challenged as in a competitive market and which usually bears no relation to the costs of production. Secondly you talk about "monopolistic competition" which I daresay is in itself a glaring contradiction in terms for a monopoly simply stands for "one" to the exclusion of "others" as someone said above. I suspect your use of this term is derived from one of those new age re-classification of simple, known and given economic lingua.

But perhaps what you are trying to get at is geographical separation thus allowing for price discrimination - however whilst the concept is theoretically possible, it would be practically impossible in an environment like Nigeria where the necessary factors to allow for its success are absent. A good example of one of these factors would be the absence of differing cost of capital or labour or even buying power!

I do not know how long you have been around here but I think it necessary to echo Nextlevel here when I say I am also surprised at the civility with which you have been treated thus far given the substance or lack of it in this discuss. All in all though - enjoy.

Arizindo Pinyon
Apr 29, 2003, 06:35 PM
The best analysis of Obasanjo's first term I've ever read:

odili.net/news/source/200...29/49.html (http://odili.net/news/source/2003/apr/29/49.html)

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 07:03 PM
Dear NextLevel;

Your response is well noted. You have earned the rights to further debates on the nature of Dangotes' cement concession.

I shall wait for others to respond before I will make my final thoughts known on your response.

Thank you, and I hope we would be able to engage in an civil manner in our future debates. I must confess that I do not appreciates the 'divide and destroy tactics' that you and Kenn usually employed in your criticism of other peoples' work.

One of the basic things, which I learned in Secondary School is that, in debating, you will not only critique your opponents assertions, you will in addition put forward a superior argument based on reasons and supported by proof. This is neccessary, because, the purpose of debate is enlightenment and we are bound to learn from one another if we approach debate in this manner.

Rather, the 'divide and destroy tactics,' which you and Kenn is known for, deny your readers the opportunity to make sense of the issue at hand and degenerates into issues (sometimes personal) which are not part of the original topics.

The reason I desire for this method (Ideas vs Ideas) of debating is because, I intend for this new forum to live up-to its mission: "To be the best Nigerian Intellectual Forum on the Internet."

Again, how do we engage in exchange of Ideas, when both you and Kenn's typical responses usually neglects the fact that everyone who contributes an opinion whether informed or not, do so in other to get a point or more across. It is a diservice and it discourages others from contribution.

My attempt here is not to stifle anyone's opinion or censorship or even at gaining upperhand, but rather for our discussion to be modelled on accepted and civilized proper way of literary engagements.

I shall post here now, an example of my dissatisfaction with your ( you and Kenn) method of engagement:

Kenn's reponse to one of my posting:

>>>I am not Dangote's or anyone else's crony nor do I intend to be. I am a man of my own who has learned to call spade a spade no matter whose ox is gored.<<<

I didn't notice...

>>>Until we hear or know what will become of the other cement producers in Nigeria, we cannot accuse Dangote of any misgivings? Even if Dangote is the sole producer of cement in Nigeria for at least 7 years according to the published account of the concession.<<<


WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN TO THEM? WHERE WOULD THEIR PROFIT COME FROM WHEN THEY'RE BANNED FROM ESTABLISHING NEW PLANTS, COURTESY OF WHAT HAS BEEN GRANTED THE PREDATORY 'COMPETITOR'?


>>>The fact that the report said: Dangote will establish 3 different factories in 3 different areas of the country nullifies the monopoly's posture of the enterprise. <<<


Hotbrain logic! Now, your old Economics teacher must be very proud of you to read this! What a pity!


>>>This is because, the condition of each area will be different an as such the cost of production will be different in each of the area. We must also remember that the raw material needed for cement production is not available in all parts of the country.<<<


Charlatan!


>>>The characteristics of this concession giving to Dangote cement production is consistent with an Oligopoly market approach. Anyone else who refutes my claim can do so based on their own observation and economics proof. Not by insisting that monopoly is oligopoly. <<<


You are indeed the one insisting that oligopoly is monopoly by describing the virtual monopoly of Mr Dangote as an oligopoly. What some of us have been trying to do is to open your eyes to your intellectual and indeed commonsensical limitations without saying so in plenty words. Sadly, we've failed."

End of Kenn's post.

As you can see from above, I stated clearly on which side I was, with reasons and proof as I saw fit. Kenn should have been able to refute my assertions based on his own perception of facts or even based on his own sentiments.

I hope that I have expressed my concerns clearly in this regard. Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 07:16 PM
Dear Big K;

You wrote:

"maybe what MHB meant by monopolistic competition is a case of where 5 different fingers of the same hand are competing against each other exclusively. Example if Compaq and HP were the only computer brands available.e:

Even if that were the case, it's still a monopoly! "


Please, have patience with me until I hear from Kenn before I provide my own answers. Since you all disagree with my believes in the first place.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 07:22 PM
Dear Shoko Loke Bangoshe;

As you can see, NextLevel has graduated from MONOPOLISTIC competition is the same as Monopoly, to:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like I've said, monopolisitic competition is nonsense. - NextLevel

Hopefully, the truth shall come out soon. We are still waiting for Kenn's and Arizindo Pinyon's answer to my questions.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NextLevel
Apr 29, 2003, 07:32 PM
myhotbrain,

Come again?

Where did NextLevel say what you said he said? Could you please quote him, so that others can see whether you are being naive or wilfully dishonest? Thanks.

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 07:34 PM
Dear Arinzindo Pinyon;

You are on record to have agreed in principle along with the others, that: MONOPOLISTIC competition is the same as MONOPOLY.

I have on the hand, continue to disagree with this assertion.

This is why the onus is on those who disagree with me to do so based on facts. I will in addition to my answers to the same set of questions that I have asked, prove you wrong with facts and examples of each of the known market approaches.

Pleeeeeeeeeease, go ahead and answer the rest of the questions, so that we can move forward.

And where on earth is Kenn? Can someone tell him that he is holding the forum up. He started this negation of my assertions with a refute based on the Mariam Webster Dictionary for definitions of Economics Terms.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 08:29 PM
Dear NextLevel;

I apologize, I thought you agreed in principle along with the others who disagreed with my assertions on the difference between MONOPOLISTIC competition and MONOPOLY.


You goofed nonetheless or so it seems by the followings:
You wrote initially in one of your contributions, and I had thought it was an approval on their premise that: OLIGOPOLY is = MONOPOLY.

"Anyways, keep on. Soko and Kenn have given the commonly accepted meanings of monopoly and oligopoly, and most economists will tell you that monopolies come in different forms, the most important ones being those created by government privileges (meaning that they face no market competition by threat of law, or they have advantages with which others cannot meaningfully compete)." NextLevel.

The quotes above appeared to have been in concurrence with their assertions that: OLIGOPOLY is = MONOPOLY.

But again in your detail answers to my questions, on #2.
You answered:

2) No, a monopoly does not equal an oligopoly. NextLevel.

Now
Could you please clarify whether or not you have always believed that OLIGOPOLY is not = MONOPOLY.
You have the benefit of the doubt in you response.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NextLevel
Apr 29, 2003, 09:09 PM
"Good intentions and bad logic - what harm these have wrought on the world."

Aniade, HotBrain, or whatever you prefer,

Where did Kenn and Shoko assert that "oligopoly = monopoly"?

And what do you think the term "monopoly privileges" means?

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 09:28 PM
Dear NextLevel;

It is now clear to me from the foregoing that you harbor a unique feelings towards my person, good or bad.

I cannot recall ever reffering to my myself as "Aniade" on this new forum. But you went on to say:

"Aniade, HotBrain, or whatever you prefer," NextLevel.

Could you stay on the issue at hand successfully, before we move unto personal handles and its origins:lol

You should rather attack the message than the messenger.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NextLevel
Apr 29, 2003, 09:37 PM
Oh, MyHotBrain,

I could easily have said the same of you when you responded to me saying that I do "divide and conquer" analysis. But I ignored it and kept to the topic. You are the one attempting to go off track by bringing attention to something other than what I stressed.

So you still haven't answered my question.

When did Kenn and Soko write what you said that they wrote claiming that oligopoly and monopoly are synonymous - that way, I can judge whether what they said is what you said I agreed with. Please don't sidetrack again.

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 10:23 PM
Dear NextLevel;


"When did Kenn and Soko write what you said that they wrote claiming that oligopoly and monopoly are synonymous - that way, I can judge whether what they said is what you said I agreed with." NextLevel.


Answer

Events as they occurred:

After my initial brutal attack on (what I perceived) the motive of the initiator of this topic. And a couple of responses subsequently.

Shoko Loko Bangoshe responded as thus:

"MyHotBrain,

Colo and PopGee have asked you a very simple question - why has the government chosen to grant a monopoly to Dangote in the production of cement? In other words, why can't anyone else who has the capital to do so get involved in the production of cement? " Shoko Loko Bangoshe


My response to Shoko L. B.

"Dear Shoko Loko Bangoshe;

You are either in the dark (that's not my fault) as to the meaning of 'Oligopoly' market practice and the criteria for its developments. Or you are expecting me to agree with your premise that all non-competitive business practices do not conform with any type of market approach, hence every kind of business must be based on a competitive market approach. If the latter is your believe, please endeavor to support your theory with proof and reasons in consistent with your postulation. At least, I have been able to support mine with all proof and reasons in consistence with my believes. Whether or not you agree or even comprehend such is a matter only you can expound upon." myhotbrain.


Shoko L. B's second response at the end read thus:

"I cannot see anywhere in your post where you have explained why giving Dangote a monopoly to produce cement is economically a good idea." Shoko Loko B.


My further response to Shoko L.B.

"Here is what I have written:

Economic
1) Oligopoly in economics is a market practice, in which there are only few competitive companies that can participates in it. An example of such business in America is the car industry.
In Nigeria, the cement industry is an oligopoly industry--that is--only a few companies/factories are in the market, a couple of them are: Ewekoro, Benue Cement, and the others." myhotbrain.


Kenn's response to me was:

"Isn't it obvious what would become of the "existing cement companies" when they are expected to compete in the same market and environment with Mr Dangote? Isn't it obvious what will happen to the rest where ONE MAN is given monopoly and outrageously generous incentives on tax, imports and machinery? Isn't it obvious what will happen when they're all supposed to be selling at some market price to the same consumers? Well, I'll tell you the likely effect - these other producers will find they cannot 'compete' on price level, even if they manage to move mountains to produce. In no time, some of them will close shops. The singularly-backed Mr Dangote might even be buying whole companies, stocks and machinery for a song. In other words, he would be cruising his way to a de facto monopoly in the real sense of the word through government backing. And the ultimate losers? The hapless consumers of course!" Kenn1.


My response to Kenn:

"Dear Kenn1;

Those who lacks knowledge in a particular field, and refused to learn when opportuned to, are depriving themselves of the pleasurable benefits derives there from: POWER.

My dear Kenn, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. Monopoly and Oligopoly in economics' parlance are not the same. The only good you can do for yourself now, is to study basic economics to know the meaning of each and their applicability. Yellow is not Red and, Black is not White." myhotbrain.

End of quotes



I have answered your questions to the best of my ability, but you may want to read the whole thread all over again just to be sure and to get all of the detail as it evolved.

Thank you.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NextLevel
Apr 29, 2003, 10:50 PM
Thanks for the summary.

The summary is so honest that I have now moved you from the "wilfully dishonest" category to the "oddly naive" category.

It is quite obvious to me that neither Kenn nor Shoko claimed a monopoly was the same thing as an oligopoly.

What Kenn and Shoko said was that the justification for giving Dangote monopoly privileges, by which most economists (and people) mean government support not given to other firms, was not any objective merit on Dangote's part, but his connections with Obasanjo.

Giving a company monopoly privileges does not always make the company a monopoly, but in this case, Kenn and Shoko both provided arguments to support their contention that in this case, it pretty much amounts to the same thing.

But you decided to focus on the definition of the word "monopoly" rather than the logical analysis that follows from granting a firm great monopoly privileges.

But anyways, I have now seen the light. Thanks.

NoLongThing
Apr 29, 2003, 11:18 PM
Is it the objective of this board to be the best intellectual forum on the internet, if so perhaps there is a need to remove some mediocre minds.

myhotbrain
Apr 29, 2003, 11:37 PM
Dear NextLevel;

I have given you the benefit of the doubt and I have treated you with respect and civility.

But this matter shall not rest, if you insist:

You said:

"Thanks for the summary.

The summary is so honest that I have now moved you from the "wilfully dishonest" category to the "oddly naive" category.

It is quite obvious to me that neither Kenn nor Shoko claimed a monopoly was the same thing as an oligopoly.

What Kenn and Shoko said was that the justification for giving Dangote monopoly privileges, by which most economists (and people) mean government support not given to other firms, was not any objective merit on Dangote's part, but his connections with Obasanjo.

Giving a company monopoly privileges does not always make the company a monopoly, but in this case, Kenn and Shoko both provided arguments to support their contention that in this case, it pretty much amounts to the same thing.

But you decided to focus on the definition of the word "monopoly" rather than the logical analysis that follows from granting a firm great monopoly privileges.

But anyways, I have now seen the light. Thanks" NextLevel.

End of quotes.


Your so called "Monopoly Privileges" is part of Oligopoly features as it concerns Cement production in Nigeria of Today

This your so called "MONOPOLY Privileges" is part of what makes Dangote's cement concession an OLIGOPOLY.

In economics, unlike Politics, Red is Red and Black is Black due to the different characteristics that each possessed. You cannot twist logic on its head for the purpose of winning an argument. Call a spade a spade, if can recognize it to be so. If not, disagree with me and show proof.

Knowledge is Light, and Light is Power; therefore, Knowledge is Power.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NextLevel
Apr 30, 2003, 12:19 AM
Whenever a man says that "red is red" and "black is black", he is right, but that truism doesn't tell you whether you are right when you call something red, and that other people are wrong when they call that thing black. It also doesn't tell you whether you are right about the logical implications of something being red.

Economic theories are logical constructs. They require an intelligent application to the scenario before you. Does anyone really believe that with Dangote getting that excessive government contract, that the market share of the other companies which you argue are not Dangote-owned will still be easy for others to maintain?

Suppose I tell you that NEPA is a monopoly. Then you reply that it isn't, that people have generators. Does that mean that you are right and I am wrong? What it tells you is that monopolies, in real life, always come in degrees. In the end, the only kind of monopoly that can be really called a monopoly is that imposed by legal restrictions or government support.

The effects of monopoly privileges come in degrees. If the government gave me a license to the sole importer of American Cars into Nigeria, it doesn't mean that I am going to be rich. Nigerians, as far as I know, do not buy that many American cars. There are other competitive cars.

But if the government gives me the license to be the sole importer of all cars into Nigeria, it has made me a multimillionaire, or even a billionaire. Many cars that people import are not produced in Nigeria.

Anyways, I think that most people are already seeing what is going on. There is little need for me to point it out. Have a nice day.

myhotbrain
Apr 30, 2003, 12:42 AM
Dear BBalogun;

Rather than learn from this debate in order that you may one day defend yourself from the knowledge you'll gain from it. Instead, you are begging for the Administrator to expel a member because you cannot defend your stand intellectually.

Pretty soon, you will be complaining that some elites takes advantage of you in Nigeria. "If a smart person cannot take advantage of a fool, who else can he take advantage of?"

I am sure if you control this forum, you would have found a reason to remove some members. Maybe you should stay away for a while or just tarry away as a guest in 'Read only' mode.

Those who choose to debate one another on this forum do so because they see fit. It is left to them to defend their arguments as best and as possible as they can.

Now, when you wrote:

"Is it the objective of this board to be the best intellectual forum on the internet, if so perhaps there is a need to remove some mediocre minds." BBalogun.

Why would you be insulting youself?


Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NoLongThing
Apr 30, 2003, 01:42 AM
In economics, unlike Politics, Red is Red and Black is Black due to the different characteristics that each possessed. - Mycoldbrain.

I will simply use the above last statement by the gentleman above as the first illustration of a mediocre mind. Now every first year economics student knows that economics is a social science and therefore cannot be held to hold true at any given time, especially at a micro-economic level and particularly given the fact that it is essentially a study of human reaction to given economic scenarios. Therefore contrary to what mycoldbrain states above, RED CANNOT BE RED AND BLACK CANNOT BE BLACK!! But then again perhaps in the world of intellectually challenged midgets, we are about to witness new independently developed economic concepts.

"The summary is so honest that I have now moved you from the "wilfully dishonest" category to the "oddly naive" category." - Nextlevel

Despite my disagreements with this guy many times in the past, I am very impressed with his "choice use of language" which has been very apt.

When a man jumps on board and proclaims that a government aided drive that could lead to the establishment of a monopoly is a good thing without presenting any logically derived reasoning behind his assertions despite several pleadings from esteemed forumites, it surely must follow that to engage such a "genius" in further discourse is to dignify him! I rest my case.

Kenn
Apr 30, 2003, 04:18 AM
Hi Mr Hotbrain,

I can see that you haven't been lonely out here. It's very, very late in my own neck of the wood right now and I've just come in from a very tiring journey. But I see that you've been worried stiff about me (ha!).

In any case don't worry; just give me a few minutes to read through this and some other threads - you know, to keep abreast with what's been going on since the last time I was here. I hope to give you a decent response soon, if I can keep my eyes open.

Take care!



All,

Make una welli donuuooo!

Ajibs
Apr 30, 2003, 05:31 AM
Bbalogun,


When a man jumps on board and proclaims that a government aided drive that could lead to the establishment of a monopoly is a good thing without presenting any logically derived reasoning behind his assertions despite several pleadings from esteemed forumites, it surely must follow that to engage such a "genius" in further discourse is to dignify him! I rest my case.

That last paragraph makes me post this reply. I am not arguing on the issue of monopoly of none monopoly per se. This whole matter borrowing words from Kenn, is turning Aliko Dangote from cement importer to cement manufacturer. Now let me ask, what qualifications must Dangote have to be adequately qualified to stat a cement producing plant? A university degree in cement and concrete?

Now Dangote has been granted pioneer state in the cement industry for 7 years, the real question is what can he do in 7 years? How long has WAPCO been in existence? Can Dangote actually swallow all competition in 7 years as Kenn insinuates? There is WAPCO, Ashaka cement and BCC cement (He now owes) Sokoto cement, Cement Company of Northern Nigeria and one or two others in Nigeria, there are also the imported cements, now the industry is already a Oligopoly is it not? It was before Dangote got set to join them.

The crux of the matter:
Let us consider what Shoko LB said previously


In fact this is the main issue - if Dangote is not allowed to face competition, what incentive will he have to run his company efficiently?

Now has Shoko forgotten that the existing cement producers, Ashaka cement, BCC Gboko, WAPCO, and a few more have had a head start of over 20 years? And Dangote is starting from scratch, so is there not competition already awaiting him? So hopefully Dangote's entry into the manufacturing sector of the cement industry will promote a price change, logically, downwards.

Secondly
These companies already operating an Oligopoly, now are they going to stand by and watch Dangote take over their industry? Dangote may be connected politically, but so also are the men at the head of Ashaka cement and WAPCO and others like Yinka Folawiyo cement. WAPCO Portland cement has been sold to a British company, Blue circle, the same company bought Ashaka cement, now Blue circle has been taken over by Lafarge, arguably one of the worlds largest cement manufactures. Looks like two other cement produces are not yet sold. Now is such a huge worldwide conglomerate watch while Aliko Dangote monopolizes cement in Nigeria? I think not, so there is competition already waiting for his three new cement plants.

Thirdly,
Dangote has a 7-year period in which no new cement factory will be built. Do any of you have any idea how long it takes to build a cement factory? I guarantee you that it will take nothing less than 2 years, probably 3 for the construction of the physical plant. So that leaves him 5 years on his privileged status. Now the man needs to build 3 plants. Before his brands can take a hold on the market, his privileged status will be up. Do not forget all the while WAPCO and others are still producing cement. Also Dangote has bought over BCC Cement, he needs to first turn around that company in a few years time.

Also I disagree that because he is a cement importer that he will make his cement industries under perform. That may be the case, but it may also not necessarily be true. It was because he was prevented from becoming a manufacturer that he went into importation of cement, as we seem to be forgetting that in the years gone by, this was a government only owed industry. Now he undoubtedly sees that actually making the product will give him more money hence his decision to get into the industry and naturally make the industry succeed. As with all industries, there is still going to be some imported part of the product so his importation still comes in handy. Also note that Nigeria consumes both the imported and the locally manufactured cement brands in huge quantities.

Now going back to the new owners of WAPCO, we seem to be forgetting the fact that it is now owed by the largest cement manufacturer in the world, Lafarge. Are they now knowing that no new industries will be built after Dangote's 3 not going to spend the near future trying to capitalize on their hold of the market, expand both WAPCO and Ashaka cement that they owe? So as you can see, Kenn's argument that Dangote is on the verge of becoming the cement czar in Nigeria is pretty flawed.

Now more on this issue of Dangote becoming a monopoly. Right now in Nigeria WAPCO is the biggest cement manufacturer, now owed by Lafarge. This is a company that has the international muscle to check Dangote Naira for Naira, dollar for dollar pound for pound, and they are likely to also make forays into Nigeria politically (they winning the bid to buy WAPCO is itself probably due to some internal connections) WAPCO has two plants WAPCO embarked on a huge expansion between 1999 and 2002 and has diversified into paint manufacturing et al, that makes it an even bigger player in the industry. WAPCO currently produces about 700,000 metric tones of cement annually. Now Ashaka cement, the other company that Lafarge now owes is the second largest in Nigeria after WAPCO. WAPCO has been in business since 1959 and Ashaka since 1979.

BBC Gboko that Dangote bought on the other hand is deep into to troubled waters, established in 1975. Now first he must make the company profitable again. Secondly do we have any idea how big the new cement plants he will build are, do we know if they will be as big as any of WAPCO's two plants? Or any other existing cement plant in Nigeria?

From the information above you should now see that Lafarge is Nigeria's cement monopoly, Dangote is going to spend 7 years playing catch up. Now do we have any idea if any or how much Blue circle and or Lafarge contributed to Obasanjo's campaign? Did they contribute anything? Also is Blue circle / Lafarge not a noted player in the cement manufacturing circle? I make this statement to counter the view and comment that Kenn has made insinuating that the Obasanjo administration is privatizing Nigerian companies to individuals or companies that do not have the experience to take over such companies. I know that using his grand collaboration theory he may come back and tell me that Lafarge, Obasanjo and Dangote have a deal.
:hat

Ajibs
Apr 30, 2003, 05:35 AM
Mr. Pinyon,
You may not realize that right now, there are several companies building or preparing to build power plants in Nigeria to supply electricity devoid of NEPA, already we have the IPP station in Lagos, there is a Mobil financed plant under construction in the east.

Secondly there are at least 3 delta states that are in the process of building non-federal government owed oil refineries, just to make you a happy man, please read below:

AKWA IBOM>>>
Nigerian private oil refinery awards contract to Ventech
05-03-01 Amakpe International Refineries has awarded a contract to Ventech Engineers, Pasadena, Texas, for what Ventech says is Nigeria's first privately held and privately financed oil refinery. Ventech is responsible for the design of the 12,000 bpd refinery and construction of preassembled modules for shipment to Eket, Akwa Ibom state.
The plant will be adjacent to ExxonMobil's Qua Iboe terminal, said Ventech, and will process Qua Iboe crude into naphtha, gasoline, kerosene jet fuel, diesel, gas oil, and fuel oil. Start-up is expected in December.
Official encouragement of private investment of the oil and gas industry was a factor in the project, said Ventech. The country has four refineries, but mechanical problems often keep them from operating at peak capacity, creating chronic shortages of oil products.

ANAMBRA>>>

Updates on the Anambra State Energy & Power Development Project
The Federal Government of Nigeria (FGN) has granted Orient Petroleum Resources Limited (OPRL) a license to establish a private refinery at Otuocha, Anambra State. This FGN approval was conveyed to OPRL in a letter PI/ES/6239/S.112 dated 31st May, 2002, from the Department of Petroleum Resources, Federal Ministry of Petroleum Resources. Activities are currently in top gear as Orient Petroleum moves to the next stage of the project, which includes site procurement and preparation, detailed engineering design and front end engineering works. Project financing received a major boost following successful meetings with 2 U.S. Government agencies in Washington D.C. on 26th June, 2002, when both the Trade Development Agency (TDA) of the United States Department of Trade and the Export-Import (Ex-Im) Bank of the United States confirmed their interest and support. The agreements with TDA and Ex-Im Bank covered, respectively, a grant and guarantees for U.S. bank loans for detailed engineering/ feasibility study and subsequent construction of the Otuocha Petroleum Refinery. The TDA grant will support other funds provided by OPRL to complete an economic, financial, and technical feasibility study--including developmental and environmental impacts-- of a new oil refinery and independent power plant and support utilities and infrastructure in Anambra State, Nigeria. The objectives of the project are the socio-economic advancement of the people, and installation of new infrastructure and utilities to support increased industrial and agricultural development of the region. Further, the project is in response to the encouragement and specific policy of the Federal Government of Nigeria (FGN) to open the downstream sector of the petroleum industry to the private sector. In the meantime, the process of capitalization of OPRL as a private, independent petroleum investment company continues on schedule. Any further inquiries from interested individual or group investors concerning participation in the ownership of OPRL should be directed to the Chairman, Energy and Power Committee: e-mail
Nnaemeka Nwawka, MNSE, KSP: Chairman - Committee on Energy & Power


BAYELSA...
Obasanjo Lays Foundation Stone for First Private Refinery Today
* * * *
This Day (Lagos)
October 19, 2002
Posted to the web October 19, 2002
Lagos

President Olusegun Obasanjo will today in Bayelsa lay the foundation stone for the first privately-owned refining company in Nigeria.
The News Agency of Nigeria (NAN) reports that Tonwei Refinery Ltd., owned by a group of indigenes of Agge, Agoro and adjoining communities in the Ekeremor council area of Bayelsa had been granted a licence to construct a 100,000 BPD oil refinery at Agge ocean view.

Mr Timi Tongubor, chairman, board of directors of the company told NAN in Port Harcourt on Thursday that Obasanjo had agreed to perform the ceremony.
Tongubo said his success in getting the licence was a result of his several years of hard work and the assistance given to the board by the Deputy Senate President, Dr Ibrahim Mantu.
He said the president's acceptance to perform the ceremony underscored his (Obasanjo's) commitment to improving the quality of life of the people of Niger Delta.
The chairman pointed out that the refinery would bring employment and prosperity to the people of the area, adding that the event would be unique for the communities in the area and urged them to troop out to welcome Mr President.

NB And we are now wondering why they voted for Obasanjo in the East and the Delta???? :eek 8)

Ajibs
Apr 30, 2003, 05:37 AM
On Electricity...
FG, JV Partners Plan 4,000 Mw Power Plants

This Day (Lagos)
September 5, 2002
Posted to the web September 5, 2002
Mike Oduniyi and Nneoma Ukeje-Eloagu
Rio De Janeiro andn Abuja

Makoju puts NEPA's generation capacity at 3,126mw
The Federal Government and its joint venture oil partners plan to build four independent power plants that will raise electricity generation in the country by 4,000 mega watts (mw).

The Group Managing Director of the Nigerian Nat-ional Petroleum Corporation (NNPC), Mr. Jackson Gaius-Obaseki, who disclosed this yesterday in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, said that the a total of 1,000 million cubic feet of gas per day (mmscfd), would be made available by the oil companies to fire the new power plants.
Nigeria_s joint venture partners are Shell, Mobil, Chevron, Agip, Elf and Texaco. The Federal Government through the NNPC, holds an average 57 percent equity in the ventures.
Gauis-Obaseki, briefing participants at the on going 17th World Petroleum Congress (WPC) on Nigeria_s gas and power generation programmes and investment opportunities, said the execution of the projects had been planned for over the next decade.
Each of the power plants, with 1,000 mw generation capacity, will be sited in Abuja, Kaduna, Abeokuta and Akodo in the outskirt of Lagos, he added.
The Abuja plan will be fed with 250 million scfd through the proposed Oben-Ajaokuta pipeline system. Same for the Kaduna plant.
The Abeokuta and Akodo IPP projects will be fed with 250 million scfd each, by extending the exisiting Escravos to Lagos Gas Pipeline and also extending the spurline of the pipeline from Alagbado through Ewekoro.
"These IPP projects might seem ambitious but with commitment and cooperation by all stakeholders and proper organisation, they are achievable," said the NNPC chief.
Gaius-Obaseki said that the government had begun implementing IPP projects in the effort to meet growing demand for electricity and given the problems faced by the National Electric Power Authority (NEPA).
IPPs already in place include the Lagos/AES project currently supplying 270 mw emergency power to the national grid, the IPP by Agip Oil Company located in Kwale, Delta State, which will supply 450 mw, and also the proposed power project by ExxonMobil for the supply of 300 mw in Bonny, Rivers State.
Power supply in the country had remained largely unstable due to inadequate generating capacity. While total national demand has been put at over 6,000 mw, NEPA is only able to generate about 4.000 mw now.
The NNPC chief said that an oil industry-led study on the Abuja-Kaduna pipeline and other gas related projects, which was carried out by ILF Consulting Engineers, showed that the country_s power demand in the next five years would rise by about 5,535 mw. Providing a reserve of about 20 percent, a generation capacity of 6,650 mw would be required, he said.
An investment outlay of about $1.5 billion, he added, is required yearly to meet demands of the power sector where installed generating capacity has been projected to increase to 9,000 mw in 2010 and 25,000 mw by 2020.
Nigeria, he said, was equally playing a key role in the current plans to improve power generation in West Africa in the bid to ensure economic growth in the sub-region.
This is being done through the $500 million West African Gas Pipeline (WAGP) project involving Nigeria, Ghana, Togo and Benin Republic, and the West African Power Pool project.
Gaius-Obaseki said that the WAPG project, which entails the supply of natural gas nearly 200 million scfd of gas from Nigeria to the three neighbouring countries, would come on stream in June 2005.
The power pool project, he said, entails the development of transmission network that will interconnect the entire West African sub-region.
"The availability of such a network will facilitate the export of power from countries with comparative advantage in power generation, e.g. hydro and thermal, to those with less advantage," he said.
Meanwhile, the NEPA electricity generating capacity has in the past week, recorded a new and highest record level of 3,126.7mw and is expected to exceed 4000 mega watts by December 2002.
This figure represents an increase of 43.7mw from the 3,083mw generation capacity recorded in June 2002, and 1377.7mw increase from the 1,749mw recorded in March 2000, according to the Managing Director and Chief Executive of NEPA, Engr. Joseph Makoju said.
Makoju at a briefing on NEPA's activities in Abuja yesterday also spoke on various issues spanning the authority's planned privatisation, funding, and its new monthly internal revenue generation capacity of N4 billion, which though is an improvement from the previous N2.5 billion record, still falls short of N10 billion estimated requirement.
NEPA's chief executive also hinted at possible increases in tariffs, "with improved quantity and quality of electricity supply."
On the new generation capacity, Makoju noted that actual generation capacity is about 3,300 mega watts although the peak demand capacity met at about 7.45 pm on September 3, is 3,126.7mw.
Attributing the achievements to the many efforts at resuscitating the power sector, he warned that the tempo must be maintained and increased if further improvements and eventual goal of uninterrupted power supply is to be achieved.
"Honestly, if we are not proactive in the needs of the sector, in two years time, we will get back to where we used to be," he warned.
Makoju listed some of the investments made in the generation of power to include the rehabilitation of 18 generating units, the installation of eight brand new generating units in Afam and Delta II, with capacities of 276mw and 150mw respectively, as well as the Emergency Power procured for Abuja, providing an addition of 50mw to the needs of the Federal Capital Territory.
Other initiatives include the introduction of private sector participation in power generation, such as the JV with Agip Petroleum for the installation of a 450mw generation plant in Kwale and the 270mw AES barge in Lagos, in partnership with the Lagos state government.
He also disclosed that discussions with Shell and AES are on going for a Rehabilitate-operate-Transfer (ROT) contract, while operations and management (O&M) contract for non ROT power stations are being proposed.
Investments in transmission were also listed to include the on going construction of 13 new 132 KV and 330 KV lines and sub stations, the reinforcement of sub stations, repair and rehabilitation of various transmission lines, and the separation of the 330 KV network into two islands to safeguard against total system collapse due to trip offs.
The NEPA boss, however, explained that this separation is temporary; as both islands would be interconnected as soon as rehabilitation works in the identified problem areas are completed.
With respect to distribution, Makoju explained that 85 power transformers and 1,256 distribution transformers with accessories have so far been procured and installed, while more than 50 per cent of another 128 power transformers and 4,374 distribution transformers with accessories have been procured.
Furthermore, work has also been done on 260 faulty circuit breakers requiring replacement and/or maintenance.
Despite the elaborate efforts, the NEPA chief executive said that over 90 per cent of generation is from rehabilitated units, which are between 12 to 35 years old, and therefore of low reliability and low economic life replacement cycles.
He also observed that the transmission network is very fragile, a radial system and has insufficient redundancy.
Noting that government funding to the sector is on the decrease, although reinforcement programmes to the transmission and distribution networks are yet to be concluded. Makoju, therefore, advocated "a proactive response" in order to avert the "imminent reversal" in about two years time.
These, according to him, would include Federal Government funding of new plants to increase capacity from 10 per cent to at least 40 per cent within the next two years, as well as the completion of transmission projects to "wheel improved generation and to avoid abandoned projects."
He also called for NEPA's funding of distribution network reinforcement in partnership with private sector participants in order to ensure stable supply of power to end users.
Makoju said that NEPA's joint venture with Eskom, a South African power company, would culminate in a company called NESKOM.
The new company which would be involved in making available "low cost communication links" using NEPA's fiber optics that are currently not being utilised to its maximum capacity, adding that it would serve as an additional source of revenue for NEPA's currently "precarious" funding situation.
Makoju, however, hoped that with improvements in revenue collection mechanism.
NEPA's internally generated revenue (IGR), was expected to increase from its new record of over N4 billion a month to N6 billion by the end of the year 2002.
He, however, noted that it would still not be up to the estimated N10 billion a month required to meet the "basic recurrent expenditure" of NEPA.
He disclosed that efforts at improving revenue generation include a numeration exercise to increase customer population, introduction of a metering scheme aimed at ensuring that all customers are provided with meters.
"With improved quality/quantity of electricity supply it would be more feasible to implement small periodic increases in tariffs to facilitate full cost recovery," he said.
He said that the World Bank Transmission Development Project credit worth $100 million was now active and would be applied to the establishment of a new transmission company, improving communication, grid metering and other grid strengthening projects.
On power sector reforms, Makoju said that a newly created Corporate Planning & Strategy Sector is liaising with the various institutions responsible for the formulation and implementation of the unbundling of NEPA into 18 business units, as approved by the National Council on Privatisation (NCP).
He described as misconception, reports that the planned maintenance works by Nigeria Gas Company (NGC) would plunge the nation into black outs, adding that there would be "organised rationing of power in certain areas during the period of the maintenance by NGC because the supply of gas to some power stations would be slightly disrupted.
He further explained that the maintenance work has been structured to also afford NEPA the chance to carry out some routine checks on the affected stations. "We will not do it during the week. It will be at weekend and when it is happening any local area that will be affected will be informed," he said.
Makoju called on consumers to be patient and appreciative of the efforts being made to revive the power sector, even as he acknowledged that expectations might have been wrongly raised to expect a change too soon.
"It must be appreciated that the long period of neglect of the sector has made the funding requirements needed to revive the sector more colossal and that the resuscitation of the sector back to the desired level of providing predictable and stable power will take some time," he said.

myhotbrain
Apr 30, 2003, 05:44 AM
Dear BBalogun;

Whether or not Economics is a social science is not the issue in my saying Red is Red and Black is Black. There are terminologies employed in all field of studies. The medical practioners have their languages, the auditors have their languages, the lawyers have theirs too and so on and on. In economics, there are specifics terms, whose meanings has its own characteristics, if you neglect these terms, it's at your own peril that you do so.

I do not leap before I look, nor do I claim to have knowledge that I do not possess. You are the one who is relying on your O' Levels economics knowledge and pocket dictionary to argue terminologies you do not understand. I now live you to your conscience. If you have one.

Thank you for comparing me to a midget, at least I am human. But I have one question, which you will have answer to:
"If a midget and a pig had a race, who will win?"

At least, you should be able to answer this one question, it is not that hard; even for a chicken like your friend.8o

I remain your friend too, and I will always look-out for you, you never know, someone may want to make a bacon out of you.:lol

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Kenn
Apr 30, 2003, 06:29 AM
BBalo,

>>>When a man jumps on board and proclaims that a government aided drive that could lead to the establishment of a monopoly is a good thing without presenting any logically derived reasoning behind his assertions despite several pleadings from esteemed forumites, it surely must follow that to engage such a "genius" in further discourse is to dignify him! I rest my case.<<<



Please, let us continue to "dignify" Mr Hotbrain, because that may just be the thing he needs to become what he craves, but which presently he isn't, at least based on all the available evidence from his posts.





Mr Hotbrain,



>>>Suppose I tell you that NEPA is a monopoly. Then you reply that it isn't, that people have generators. Does that mean that you are right and I am wrong? What it tells you is that monopolies, in real life, always come in degrees. In the end, the only kind of monopoly that can be really called a monopoly is that imposed by legal restrictions or government support.

The effects of monopoly privileges come in degrees. If the government gave me a license to the sole importer of American Cars into Nigeria, it doesn't mean that I am going to be rich. Nigerians, as far as I know, do not buy that many American cars. There are other competitive cars.

But if the government gives me the license to be the sole importer of all cars into Nigeria, it has made me a multimillionaire, or even a billionaire. Many cars that people import are not produced in Nigeria.

Anyways, I think that most people are already seeing what is going on. There is little need for me to point it out. Have a nice day.<<<(Nextlevel)



When all is said and done, what Nextlevel is saying above is all you need to guide you in this discussion. But, do you know your problem? I mean do you really know your problem? Your problem is that you are a half-baked fellow trying to pass off as some reasonably knowledgeable person, and in doing that, you've assumed that the little textbook "knowledge" you've tried to ram into your irredeemably thick skull is going to help you, but how can that be when you can't even understand the bit that you've read, talk less of applying it to real life situations?

In any case, before I come into a full discussion of your essentially comic malapropos, let me attempt to answer the questions you've posed with regard to monopoly, monopolistic competition and oligopoly.




>>>1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?<<<



No, but both are forms of imperfectly competitive market structures. Monopolistic competition refers to that mix between the two extremes of market structures of monopoly and perfect competition. Its principal features include PRODUCT DIFFERENTIATION, the presence of MANY firms or competitors and the fact that competitors can come into the market and exit with RELATIVE EASE. Product differentiation arises because in this kind of market structure, though products are somewhat similar, they aren't identical - they may be close substitutes yet differentiated. The most common examples can be found in retail and the hotel industry, where for instance one competitor may use such things as services, charges, advertising, location, product quality, consumers' tastes, branding, packaging, designs, etc to differentiate its product from the rest.

Of course, from the above, it is quite clear that the term "monopolistic competition" isn't an adjectival modifier for monopoly. They are quite different. A monopoly, as I've mentioned above is an extreme market structure with a single seller of a unique product with no substitute whatsoever dominating the market. However, you'd have to note that in reality, there's no such thing as a pure monopoly, because it is quite impossible to have a product or service without substitute whatsoever. In fact, the example provided by Nextlevel in that case of NEPA and generators amply proves this point. In the same vein, it is virtually impossible to get a single seller under such a market structure. Again, if I may use that example by Nextlevel, while we may say NEPA is a monopoly (single seller of electricity), we cannot discountenance the fact that the seller of the generator is a seller of electricity, no matter how small and different.

Thus, when we speak of "monopoly", "virtual monopoly" or "monopoly privileges" in the economy of the real world as it concerns the issue under discourse, we can only be approximating, because monopoly as a market structure, like perfect competition is only an idealistic concept. So, when a man tells you that he controls the supply of 8 million tonnes of cement in a market consuming less than 10 million tonnes and then shortly after gets a concession from the government, part of which requires that no new plants are built within the country for a given period by other competitors or would-be competitors, complete with generous tax, import and machinery concessions, all of which are not available to ANY other producer or supplier, such a man, in real world economic sense is a virtual monopoly. He's the price maker, while he's reduced all others to price takers. Of course, being a monopoly does not mean he can just charge any price. Yes, to an extent, he can; but he cannot charge more than the maximum buyers are willing or able to pay. If for instance, Mr Dangote decides to charge N10,000 for a bag of cement in a country where people are striving to survive on a dollar a day, because of this virtual monopoly (even if he finally succeeds in driving others out of the market completely), he may just have to eat his cement, as people are likely to shun him and use such other affordable substitutes for building such as burnt brick, wood, etc.





>>>2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?<<<



Again, the obvious answer is no. An oligopoly as a market structure is characterized by A SMALL NUMBER OF DOMINANT SUPPLIERS whose behaviour is necessarily interdependent. They may sell identical or/and differentiated products, but crucially, entry into the market, unlike in monopolistic competition is very difficult (indeed, one can argue that the basic purpose of an oligopoly is to prevent others from coming into that market, which partly explains their interdependence).

Oligopoly can take varying forms. It could be a cartel, which is a group of sellers who have agreed to coordinate their production and pricing policies/decisions, acting in the process more like a monopoly. To be effective, there must be agreement on price, system of allocating market shares and costs, method of monitoring and effective means of sanctioning violators or cheats. The most common examples are OPEC and DeBeers. An oligopoly can also be in the form of price leadership, that is a situation where one firm (usually the largest, but not clearly dominant) fixes the price to be adopted by the others. Usually, this is done to avoid price competition - since the whole idea of the oligopoly is the interdependence, this is usually for convenience. The price leader enjoys no obvious benefit above the others save those it already enjoys by virtue of its relatively bigger size. You'd recall I gave you examples of an oligopoly in my "dictionary definition". There are other forms, like the Game theory model, cost-plus pricing and kinked demand curve, which are just variations of this market structure, but all of which share those characteristics of interdependence, non-price competition, rigid prices and collusion. They could also cooperate legally through mergers.






3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.



From what I've explained above the answer is obvious. Perhaps, I should stress here that the differences can be seen in their operation, because while monopolistic competition banks more on the price level, oligopolies depend more on non-price competition to better each other. Thus, oligopolies usually witness stability in prices since this is usually not the basis of competition. Also, it is worth noting that sellers in an oligopoly do not usually aim to annihilate the competition in an attempt to become monopolies (as our dear friend, Mr Dangote is doing). This is because such a strategy may backfire turning the hunter today to the hunted tomorrow. It is enough that each of them simply look at and monitor what the other is doing before making their own decisions. The idea is to limit competition so as to cut down on the risk to their own market shares and profits. Of course, Mr Dangote can afford to behave the way he's doing, because today, as in 1977 and much of the intervening period, we have a government ready to rig the market conditions in his favour.


Now, let me stop here for now, while I await your response, but not before asking you this: since you are always making reference to the old Odili board and what you wrote or what I wrote (even if obviously you'd lied about me duplicating Nobiorah, etc) wouldn't it be fair for you to reveal the handle/name you had then, since for the obvious reasons that some of us aren't chameleons, you know ours? In other words, who were you on that board? I ask because I may have to make reference also to some things you've said then and it would be fair for me and others to know. After all, being a name you've already used on board (and which you could still have been using were it not for the breakdown of that site), it would do you no harm to let us know. Except of course, you harbour ulterior motives to keep this "secret". I note that from your response to Nextlevel calling you Aniade, you seem to have given me sufficient idea, but I don't think it is fair to speculate when you're here to tell us the truth.



CHEERS!

myhotbrain
Apr 30, 2003, 06:39 AM
Dear Aji2003;


Kenn and others have continued to pounce on me without justification. All that I did was to explain that Monopoly is not Oligopoly and vice versa. Other members joined in to expound their knowledge of economics (some genuine, some fake), ironically, one of them said that you should not 'muddy' the water, even though he himself has less knowledge than you possessed on the issue at hand. NextLevel claimed not to have read all the postings (he leaped before he looked), but that did not prevent him from attacking my postings. One of them reffered to his economics books, but he can't seem to make so much sense out of it. The other wants to bamboozle me with sentimental jargons, one yet resulted to abuse, all in the name of discourse. But all along I remain resolute and fired my shots as I see fit.

I am not a neophyte, nor have I lost my sense of reasoning, whenever you have knowledge, all things is possible.

Now I will answer all of the questions, which I have posted to them.


Now for you as an erudite economics fellow:

1) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to a MONOPOLY?

answer: No

Monopolistic competition is highly competitive and always open to new comers. Participants are Price makers. There is no restriction for entry. e.g. medical drugs companies.

Monopoly is always a one company affairs, non competitive. There is no possible entry for other participants and They are also Price makers. e.g Nitel before others now joined in.

2) Is MONOPOLY equals to OLIGOPOLY?

answer: No

Oligopoly consist of few companies only, competitive to some certain extent and Price fixing is interdependent on others. e.g. cement companies in Nigeria.

3) Is MONOPOLISTIC competition equals to OLIGOPOLY.

answer: No


From the above definitions, which I have stressed many times during the course of this debate, our esteemed friends refuse to see reason, that Dangote's cement concession is not a Monopoly. But no, they will not have it as long as my definitions does not conform to the lay-man or english dictionary definitions, which many of them relied upon.

In the final analysis, it is safe to say to them, just because of next time before they pounced on me again:

Those who do not possess enough knowledge on any subject and refuse to learn when the opportunity presents itself are only depriving themselves of reaping the gain derives from it.
They are the ones who are in darkness. Because knowledge is Light. Light is Power, therefore, knowledge is Power.:x

Thank you and others for your research and genuine contributions. God Bless.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin I rest my case. :D

Kenn
Apr 30, 2003, 06:49 AM
Mr Hotbrain,


Why don't you compare your answers with mine, which I must emphasize I posted before you? It would seem that you are now the one who's leaping and jumping into moats and ditches before looking!

Kenn
Apr 30, 2003, 07:26 AM
Aji


>>>From the information above you should now see that Lafarge is Nigeria's cement monopoly, Dangote is going to spend 7 years playing catch up. Now do we have any idea if any or how much Blue circle and or Lafarge contributed to Obasanjo's campaign? Did they contribute anything? Also is Blue circle / Lafarge not a noted player in the cement manufacturing circle? I make this statement to counter the view and comment that Kenn has made insinuating that the Obasanjo administration is privatizing Nigerian companies to individuals or companies that do not have the experience to take over such companies. I know that using his grand collaboration theory he may come back and tell me that Lafarge, Obasanjo and Dangote have a deal.<<<




Could you please point out where I said "Obasanjo administration is privatizing Nigerian companies to individuals or companies that do not have the experience to take over such companies"?


You have spent time talking about WAPCO, Ashaka Cement, Sokoto, BCC, etc. Now, all I ask is that you relax and read the innocuously harmless interview below. I'm hoping that you can see through the obvious and make up your own mind exactly what this man represents in the economic firmament of the nation. May I remind you that he's also member of the board of the Nigerian Stock Exchange and sundry other economically-related public bodies.

Now, I want you to read the interview below. It is a long one, but for the purpose of the issue I want you to address here, you may want to read the question and answer I posted below the link itself. It is about the middle of the page, the last paragraph of his answer to that question. As you can see, it was just information he volunteered; it really isn't related to the NFA question, but generally something on his business.

I want you to consider the implication of that inadvertently illuminating statement from Mr Dangote, made over a month ago, in the light of the concessions now granted him by government.





allafrica.com/stories/200303120140.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/200303120140.html)


NOT FATHER CHRISTMAS


Q: Could you open up on the NFA job? Everyone had thought you would clinch the job until . . .


"...While so many are yet to go into cement production, we already have eight million tonnes capacity , while the whole consumption of the country is less than 10 million tonnes. So if everybody stops importing, we can satisfy the market. This is why the price of cement has been stable for a while."

Ajibs
Apr 30, 2003, 07:54 AM
Kenn
I will certainly take the time to read the article, and then reply. Thanks.

Kenn
Apr 30, 2003, 10:03 AM
Aji



>>.Kenn
I will certainly take the time to read the article, and then reply. Thanks.<<<




While I await your response, let me quickly refresh you with some of the facts available now, something I hope you further consider when responding.

Mr Dangote is being granted a pioneer status in an industry where you yourself have pointed out at least two industries that are long established - one about half a century old. At least, Mr Dangote has been IMPORTING for twenty-six years, under one form of concession or the other, but had never before now ventured into manufacturing or production. Did the government give this kind of incentives to those real pioneers?

Within the seven year period, we are told that no new plants will be established, but you seem to think that this really wouldn't matter since it would take Mr Dangote almost the whole of that privileged period to "play catch up". But hear him again in parts of that interview:



>>>Q: So you have no plan to venture into oil exploration?
A: I will go into that area at the appropriate time.
Now, there are several opportunities within my area of competence. I've to explore and exploit the various opportunities before I venture into other areas of the economy. We've not tapped all the opportunities available in the real sector of the economy. So the time is not ripe to go into oil production.
Q: How soon will you take the decision to move into that area?
A: It all depends on our cash flow. Recently, the President gave us 18 months within which to produce cement. I thought it was not going to be possible. But on second thought, I realised it could be accomplished within the stipulated time, although we will need huge financial commitments to achieve our dream. The Obajana plant in Kogi State will cost us about $400 million; the Calabar plant will also gulp $200 million. At the Obajana plant alone we have to run our gas all the way from Ajaokuta to Lokoja to Obajana - about 92 kilometres of gas pipeline which we have to provide. But it is much better for us not to take the risk of having a factory worth $400 million that we don't have gas for. Imagine if NNPC are on strike, it would spell doom. I've seen it happen at a sugar refining company - because it was not connected to NEPA, we were buying 2.4 million litres of fuel every day. There was a time we shut down for 40 days because we had no LPO. When I approached Mr. President on the problem we were facing, he gave approval that we should be given LPO directly instead of buying from the open market because we operate industries.<<<


What I want you to note is that Mr Dangote himself, before these incentives were granted had already stated that this can be done within 18 months, so that gives him over five and half years to milk the privilege above all others. In this period he can expand, but others can't. He can take advantage of new technology in that expansion, others cannot. He can import and rebag as he's still doing, others cannot. He's bound to increase his market share, while others are bound to decrease. Indeed, some competitors, especially the foreign ones, may well find the cost of doing business here too prohibitive to continue, moving their business to more friendly climate.

We are told that he would be paying a 2.5 percent duty on ALL parts, machinery and quarry equipment. This means that while other competitors pay the full duty for replacement (since they cannot expand, pressure is likely to be on already existing facilities, leading to faster wear and tear), Mr Dangote will not, and on completion after the said 18 months, still have the privilege of paying that little for expansion equipment, etc.

The same principles and privileges apply to VAT on ALL plants, machinery and quarry equipment.

We are told that he's paying only 5% for construction material not available in the country, which means he's given an open ticket to get better materials at a far lesser price than his other competitors.

Please, also note that the plants are proposed for Ogun, Kogi and Cross River (he already owns BCC), which means he's well covered in the geographical part of the market that mostly need and use the product (and is planning to even export from Calabar to Ghana). It follows that with the advantage already rolled out, he's bound to, at least, in a period of five and half years compete most favourably with established industries in these areas, if not run them out.




Now, with a Nigerian market capacity of less than 10 million, what do you think will be the effect of a "permission to import five million metric tonnes of bulk cement at a maximum rate of five per cent duties", bearing in mind that production will commence in those three factories in at most 18 months (including the already operating BCC)?.




Well, there are a great many other things I can point out, including the self-confessed ease the man can go in and out of the presence of our President and get whatever he wants; now, how many businessmen, including seasoned manufacturers can say the same thing?

In any case, you know I've given you a simple challenge before now, which is that you should point me ONE country that has done what the Nigerian government did with Dangote.

Should I expect the answer in your next response?


CHEERS!

NoLongThing
Apr 30, 2003, 02:45 PM
Whether or not Economics is a social science is not the issue in my saying Red is Red and Black is Black. There are terminologies employed in all field of studies. The medical practioners has their languages, the auditors have their languages, the lawyers has theirs too and so on and on. In economics, there are specifics terms, which meanings has its own characteristics, if you neglect these terms, is at your own peril that you do so - Mycoldbrain.

Like Kenn suggested, perhaps one should dignify you one last time. Here goes - in the two and a bit years that I have spent amongst these group of "forumites" I am yet to meet anyone demonstrate such bravado in the midst of glaring ignorance. Firstly you claim and I quote "In economics, unlike politics, Red is Red and black is black due to the different characteristics that each possessed" - mycoldbrain. Please note corrections are in CAPITALISED LETTERS.

Now not only is your grammar so bad, as the last bit should have read as follows - "different (DIFFERING) characteristics that each possessed (POSSESSES)"; it is also factually untrue because economics is a social science which involves the study of human behavior which means that your sentence should have read as follows "In economics, LIKE POLITICS, Red IS NOT Red and Black IS NOT Black due to the differing characteristics that each possesses". Also you tried to obscure issues by failing to define what these "different characteristics are".

Secondly, rather than acknowledge your ignorance you proceed to display even worse grammar coupled with even more fallacies in your next post addressed to me.

In your first sentence, you wrote and I quote, "Whether or not Economics is a social science is not the issue in my saying Red is Red and Black is Black. There are terminologies employed in all field of studies".

Why you choose to continue embarrassing yourself is simply beyond me. What is the relevance of "terminologies" in the context of economics being a question of "Red is Red and Black is Black", please explain. And whilst you are at it, could you kindly let us know what therefore the issue is, when you write "whether or not economics is a social science is not the issue in my saying Red is Red and Black is black in economics". Could this be a case of one trying to be more sophisticated than one actually is or do you really not know what it is you are saying? OK say we put your fallacies aside for a minute, your poor grammar again betrays your level of "education" or shall I say lack of it, - for you should have written as follows " There are "terminologies" in all field (FIELDS) of studies (STUDY).

As if this was not enough you immediately wrote and I quote "The medical practioners has their languages, the auditors have their languages, the lawyers has theirs too and so on and on. In economics, there are specifics terms, which meanings has its own characteristics, if you neglect these terms, is at your own peril that you do so." - mycoldbrain.

Now I am not going to even bother evaluating the incomprehensible but would seek to be of assistance through a correct rephrasing of your sentence. Please note once again that corrections are in capitalized letters and is as follows: "The medical practioners (PRACTITIONERS) has (HAVE) their languages (TERMINOLOGIES), the auditors have their languages (TERMINOLOGIES), the lawyers has (HAVE) theirs too (REMOVE)and so on and on (SO FORTH). In economics, there are specifics (SPECIFIC) terms, which (WHOSE) meanings (SIC, SORRY CAN'T HELP YOU HERE) has (HAVE) its (THEIR) own characteristics, if you neglect these terms (TERMINOLOGIES), is at your own peril that you do so (YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN PERIL)

Now MYCOLDBRAIN not only have you got nothing constructive to say, you are not even able to construct one correct sentence in simple English. Tell us honestly if you can, where did you get your education? I mean this is really, really bad - so bad it is almost unreal that I am beginning to think you are simply trying to wind us up. How can I be expected to engage you in a discourse when you do not even know "what to say", "how to say" and "when to say"? Good luck to the others though they've got the time - I'm outta here!!

myhotbrain
Apr 30, 2003, 04:35 PM
Dear BBalogun;


How are you my friend? I hope that you are now fully awake from your temporary slumber. You sure have a penchant for day dreaming. Don't worry too much, though, help is on the way; as soon as I secure a patent for my new untested drugs, you will be the first I will test it upon.:D

Remember, as a midget, people like myself do not have compassion ( Eni yan kukuru, Bilisi--short men are evils), but nevertheless, I will show you one. I will only test my drugs on you for a lesser period of time than required, so that I'll still use you for other things like....

By the way, you still haven't provide answer to my last question to you, may be you forget, here it is:
"If a midget and a pig had a race, who will win?

I only persist in asking you this question, because you are in a good position to know.

I see that in your last response to me, you have attempted to correct my grammatical errors, please next time, do a good job at it and remember to correct the blunders in your various post as well. Thank you, Sir.

Prof. P. B. Balogun (CGC), in an attempt to redeem your battered image, you had missed the answers to the questions pertainning to the characteristics of the economics 'terminologies', which I had already provided for, to wit:

Characteristics in bold letters

Monopolistic competition is highly competitive and always open to new comers. Participants are Price makers. There is no restriction for entry. e.g. medical drugs companies.

Monopoly is always a one company affairs, non competitive. There is no possible entry for other participants and They are also Price makers. e.g Nitel before others now joined in.


Oligopoly consist of few companies only, competitive to some certain extent and Price fixing is interdependent on others. e.g. cement companies in Nigeria.

I hope that you would constantly refresh your knowledge of the English Language, so that you'll be better at it, otherwise, I will not hestitate to expose your inadequacies to the School Authority.

By for now, stay awake, read a lot, carefully too and keep fit.;)

Yours in C. R.,

myhotbrain :smokin cooling down to mycoldbrain.:x

egbeomooduduwa
May 1, 2003, 01:38 AM
The fact that the report said: Dangote will establish 3 different factories in 3 different areas of the country nullifies the monopoly's posture of the enterprise....His cold brain.


Very shameful.

myhotbrain
May 1, 2003, 04:55 AM
Dear egbeomooduduwa;


Could you answer this question for your own sake, otherwise, you'll be written off my book of good economics students?:lol


Here is it again:

What kind of market competition structure is the Cement production in Nigeria as presently constituted?


And please, don't you ever again jump at me like that. What do you have against me? What is it? Do you feel threatened by the expression of my views? Are you attacking me as a cover for others that I do not know about?

Why do you choose to quote me out of context as a pretext for your attack?

Knowledge is Light, Light is Power, therefore, Knowledge is Power. Do seek knowledge so that you can get yourself out of darkness, you and your ilk have been wallowing for too long in utter despair of half-light and half-darkness. Could this be the reason for your short sightedness?

I love you anyway, despairers needs love too.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

AfricaWest1
May 2, 2003, 04:19 PM
...some mothers do have 'em...

Myhotbrain please, make you show 'em pepper.:rollin

PopGee
May 2, 2003, 06:40 PM
While showing us "pepper" hope it is not too much to expect a better expression MHB's English grammar.

Knowledge, and the communication of it, is indeed power.

P.S. That the same person establishes three factories at different locations to make the same product makes it impossible for him to monopolize the market, not so? I always knew I would come to grief for swapping my econs texts for groundnuts. Yes, some moms really do have them!!

NoLongThing
May 2, 2003, 07:29 PM
Popgee/Africawest,
Una wicked o. :rollin :rollin :rollin :lol :lol

myhotbrain
May 2, 2003, 09:09 PM
Dear PopGee;


As your name pen name suggested, You are better off leaving selling Popcorn to Pigs and take to your studies.

I did not want to expose your behind, but now, you have pushed your luck far enough.

Initially you said on this thread:



You also failed to note that the monopolistic excesses of the Robber Barons led to the creation of the Anti-Trust laws which are till date enforced by the SEC and a whole division of the US Justice Dept. So you risk going to jail in America for attempting to corner a market for any product or service but in Nigeria backing the winning party or having your kinsman in power guarantees that you get the monopoly of your choosing. And those who are better enlightened to express concern get slammed as arm-chair critics from abroad.


It is instructive to note here that you're spreading false knowledge and are pretending for it to be real. SEC (Securities & Exchange Commission) deals with matter corncerning the Stock Market Issues only and nothing whatsoever with market competitive structure. The agency saddled with that affairs (preventing anti competitive market practice) is FTC (Federal Trade Commission ), while the enforcer is the Dept. of Justice Antitrust division. Punishment for offender includes fines and other measure agreed to by the parties involved and santioned by the Courts, but never include Jail time for any person/s.


Then you said:


I may not be an economist but I know the difference between protecting domestic industries and granting monopolies as political patronage. The former helps to build an industrial base (even if pure free-marketers disagree) while the latter is nothing but the corruption of a nation's political-economy.

Would you continue to call Dangote's cement concession a Monopoly, when there are still about 3 or 4 cement companies in Nigeria?

But finally, you have expressed the reason for being jealous of Dangote's successes, when you wrote:



Aji aka Jibsy,

Make I talk my own - OBJ must make you Information Minister or Ambassador-at-large to Nigeriavillage square.

Na you biko - Jibsy for Minister. Abeg remember me o - I wan lift oil small like Baba, IBB and Abacha dem. This one wey US Marines don land for Delta maybe dem go fly man pikin go like Chalabi make we form interim Govt. of "US-based Nigerian technocrats". Afterall Niger-Deltans dey yanfu-yanfu for this new messageboard.

Kenn, Uncle Sam, Ikpatt, Big Steve,Otota, Onos - una dey there? Time to phone Mr. Powell say we dey here and ready to go. Naval base for Sapele dey ready for US Gulf of Guinea Command to take over.

And Omoges plenty for that side ready to born Mulattoes for the sailors. In ten years we go plenty names like Efe-Wentworth or Odafe-Smith. They all will be US citizens based in Nigeria.

Well I have news for you, if you like you can go to jump in the River Delta: Monopoly is not Oligopoly. Dangote will continue to be successful, because he's playing his cards right. You, Prof. P. B. Balogun and others who continue to rely on O'Levels econs. texbooks and pocket english dictionary for knowledge of real economics and politics will have yourselves to blame in the end.

A word is enough for the wise.
Knowledge is Light, Light is Power, therefore, knowledge is Power.

You can fool some of your people sometimes, but you cannot fool all of our people all the time.

You and those gutter economists you are relying upon need to go back to school so that you can update your knowledge. Things change; you know:eek


Now, for you Prof. P. B. Balogun;

Why are you hiding under the cover of others.8o
You don't have to do that, afterall, they say (Eru o ba omo Balogun), unless of course if he is not a real Balogun.

Now, before I call your people back home; answer all of my questions, P. B.0]

Finally, Emir Kongi has done justice to this matter, when he wrote in the biginning of this thread that:

Popgee & co,

Before you guys critizise and call names why not do the reasearch on the cement industry. Find out what kind of investments and regulations are involved and then find out how many cement manufacturers are in your locality before you accuse people of fraud,... " Emir Kongi.


His advice is sufficient for me and it should be for you 0] heads too.

I still love you though: PopGee name sounds pretty. And BBalogun name sound familiar, and I do love everyone regardless. But please, desist from making fool of yourselves.

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

PopGee
May 2, 2003, 09:36 PM
MHB,

I'm impressed that you finally managed to string an intelligible sentence together. That is a dramatic improvement on your current campaign to convince everyone of your substance though I'm sure sure you must have also read that a tiger needs not proclaim it's tigritude. Einstein never called himself a genius- others did.

Now we need to work on your manners. Your language, to say the least, is unparliamentary and unbecoming of someone possessing a hot brain. How about adding some civility to your newly-found grammatical skills?

Or is the agenda to needle folks into censoring you so you can hold that up that it is no better here than the other boards? Good luck. When your cup runneth over, it will be self-evident to even the blind.

myhotbrain
May 2, 2003, 09:52 PM
Dear PopGee;

I do not claim to be a superman of knowledge, nor would I accept for you or others to sell fake knowledge to me.

Thank you for the advice, I hope you'll abide by it too. I never address you, until you immersed yourself in the cocoon of deceit of calling a Donkey a Horse. While they both have some similar features, they are really quite different. Are they not?

Since when do guys/gals become CyberGrammarCops (CGC)?
You'll arrest yourselves first, before you can get to me, and by then, I'm out.:lol


Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

NoLongThing
May 3, 2003, 01:40 AM
I really love this clown. Once again corrections are in CAPITALISED LETTERS, here goes.

"Dear PopGee;

I do not claim to be a superman of knowledge (I DO NOT CLAIM TO HAVE SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE), nor would I accept for you or others to sell fake knowledge to me (NOR WOULD I BE THE RECIPIENT OF "FAKE KNOWLEDGE").

Thank you for the advice, I hope you'll abide by it too (I HOPE YOU WILL ALSO ABIDE BY IT). I never address (ADDRESSED) you, until you immersed yourself in the cocoon of deceit of calling a Donkey a Horse (MUCH BETTER). While they both have some similar features, they are really quite different (THEY REALLY ARE QUITE DIFFERENT). Do you agree?

Since when do (DID) guys/gals become CyberGramme(A)rCops (CGC)? OR BETTER STILL (WHEN DID YOU GUYS BECOME "CybergrammarCops")
You'll arrest youselves (YOURSELVES)first, before you can get to me, and by then, I'm out (I WILL BE GONE). - My daftasabrushbrain".

:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

myhotbrain
May 3, 2003, 04:07 AM
Dear BBalogun;


I am very happy to see that you're living up to your name: (Omo Balogun...do...doo..n da..n...waa... Tin..n..ba ri ..Balogun..leh.i...nMi,..Inu.n..Mi..Adun..Ara..mi. .Aya..gaga...gaaa).

It's time we sheath the sword. :x I have to let it slide when you wrote:


My daftasabrushbrain".


Can you pronounce this word with ease on the Day we meet one another?:lol Or, do presume that we would never meet in person?

Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

myhotbrain
Jun 20, 2003, 05:31 PM
Dear Kenn and others;



First of all: I do not start this debate again in oder to be mischievous, rather, I come across an interesting supporting piece on Thisday-online news.

Please read this article and comment on it whether or not Dangote's concession on Cement production is good for Nigeria.

Here is the link:
Dangote's concession (http://www.thisdayonline.com/news/20030620news35.html)


Secondly, Kenn, what is your observation the last time you were in Nigeria about Cement products and production, and what do you think's needed to be done to better the production of cement vis-a-vis the market approach?


Peace and Love.

myhotbrain.

:smokin

Obugi
Apr 27, 2012, 08:52 PM
People,

Now this one is interesting. For real....given what Dangote has accomplished so far.

Obugi.

Obugi
Apr 27, 2012, 10:51 PM
Admin,

Can you please merge these threads? I think they belong....


http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/69466-dangote-supermonopolist.html

Naijax
Apr 27, 2012, 11:05 PM
That is why I like archives. While people are blogging. Dangote is smiling and making billionaires. The rest are fearing.