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View Full Version : [General] Gej govt stuck in reverse gear...says fuel subsidy palliatives not possible again!!



agensheku
Feb 21, 2012, 06:05 AM
PRESIDENT Goodluck Jonathan on Monday said the Subsidy Reinvestment and Empowerment programme promised by his administration was no longer realistic.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

The President said SURE was hurriedly conceptualised in January on the heels of the nationwide protest against the removal of the fuel subsidy. Jonathan added that the implementation was no longer feasible since the zero-subsidy policy planned by his administration was not being implemented.
:twisted::embarassed:
Jonathan spoke at the 58th National Executive Committee meeting of the Peoples Democratic Party where he ordered his party men to retrieve copies of a SURE publication that had been advertised.

The PDP members had distributed the publication to attendees at the meeting, but on sighting the document the President expressed surprise and ordered that it should be withdrawn.

The President said, "As I came in, I saw this SURE book being distributed, we are withdrawing it. This is the old one. We developed this with the expectation that we were going to completely deregulate the downstream sector of the oil industry, (after) the 100 per cent removal of subsidy.

"You know we could not achieve that though there was an increase in the pump price. I don't want this thing to be distributed; it will give a wrong impression.

"We are working on a new document based on the reality, but we don't want to promise what we will not achieve. Those who have it please withdraw it, we cannot realise the money that is stated therein, but we will still come up with a document based on what we get."

Curiously, Jonathan had inaugurated a board for the implementation of the SURE programme barely a week ago, on February 13. The board is headed by a former High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, Dr. Christopher Kolade.

Critics of the government and opposition parties had earlier predicted that the government could not be trusted to implement SURE which some of the critics had described as a "fraud".:(:o

In the SURE document, which was distributed on Monday, government has put the total subsidy reinvestible funds at N1.134tn based on an average of $90 per barrel of crude oil.

According to the document, out of the total, N478.49bn would accrue to the Federal Government, while state governments and local governments would get N411.03bn and N203.23bn respectively.

The document adds that N9.86bn would go to the Federal Capital Territory while N31.37bn would be transferred to the Derivation and Ecology, Development of Natural Resources and Stabilisation Fund.

Among the items the Federal Government promised to spend money on were the construction of the East-West Road; construction of some roads and bridges in the six geo-political zones of the country; and the completion of rail routes.

The government also listed some of the irrigation projects it planned to embark on, promising that the revitalisation of the irrigation projects would increase the local production of rice by over 400,000 tonnes per year.

The withdrawn document further adds that government will contribute to the power sector reforms by improving generation capacity through hydro and coal power plants.:rolleyes:

"The current subsidy regime in which fixed price is maintained irrespective of market realities has resulted in huge unsustainable subsidy burden,":o the document says.

The government had on January 1, 2012 announced a total removal of subsidy on petrol but the consequent jump in the pump price of the product from N65 per litre to N141 had attracted nationwide protests and a strike action championed by organised labour and civil society groups.

Following a week of paralysis in the socio-economic sector, the government on January 16 agreed to revert the price of petroleum to N97 per litre.

The Federal Government, however, on February 15 proposed additional N656.3bn to the 2012 budget to cater for its subsidy on petrol.

Jonathan's coordinating minister, Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, had in a statement explained that the 2012 Fiscal Framework earlier submitted to the National Assembly assumed 100 per cent subsidy removal and that only N155bn was provided for the carry-over of 2011 subsidy payments.

Okonjo-Iweala explained that the estimated total figure for subsidy in 2012 was N888bn, made up of N656.30bn for 2012 and N155bn as carry-over from 2011.

Shedding light on the subsidy budget for 2012, the minister stated that the amount was arrived at after extensive consultations with the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation and the Petroleum Products Pricing Regulatory Agency.

SOURCE:www.punchng.com/news/fuel-subsidy-not-possible-again

NOTE: Will they also withdraw the 1500 hurriedly-purchased buses meant as part of palliatives? Government by committees, panic actions and brazen recants! An evidence that the cabal may get away with their rip-offs exposed by NASS.:rolleyes::biggrin:Agens

Olamide
Feb 21, 2012, 08:10 AM
SURE is a sure banker for another round of rip-offs and fraudulent conversion of public funds. I am tired of listening to all these policy flip-flop. GEJ cannot make up his mind on anything because he is not bold to take presidential decisions. He knows the problems, he knows the causes but he is not bold enough to lock horns with the people causing the problems because they are PDP members and his government is 'government by the PDP and for PDP big men and not for Nigerian masses'

Mikky jaga
Feb 21, 2012, 11:20 AM
Meanwhile, we still buy petrol at N145 per litre in PH due to scarcity of fuel at the station.

The rot definitely continues. The Cabal has won again.

otito
Feb 21, 2012, 03:01 PM
"A fi ete s'ile; a n'pa lapalapa" (Left the leprosy alone; and are trying to treat the ringworn)






Oil: Shell's Covert Hijack Of Jonathan's New PIB? By Ifeanyi Izeze
From Sahara Reporters (http://saharareporters.com/news-page/oil-shell%E2%80%99s-covert-hijack-jonathan%E2%80%99s-new-pib-ifeanyi-izeze)

Whosoever does not know should know now that the loyalty of any Shell staff especially those who rose to top senior positions whether retired or still active in service is first to the company before the country-Nigeria.


The Wikileaks saga of last year helped revealed some of the evil forces at play in frustrating genuine reform of the structure and fiscal relationships in the Nigeria's oil and gas sector. The leak revealed a confession of a top executive of Shell Petroleum Development Company of Nigeria (SPDC) as saying his company dispatched some of its top staff to various Nigerian government agencies to sabotage and ensure the government's efforts at reforming the oil and gas sector was frustrated. And from what's on ground already, Shell is fully having its way.



Is it not interesting that the Presidency which hitherto had never shown any sense of urgency in any issue is trying to make the preparation and passage of a new draft Petroleum Industry Bill (PIB) a taskforce matter? If President Goodluck Jonathan had demonstrated similar interest and commitment in the previous draft, it wouldn't have pended for more than four years until it finally died at the floor of the 6th National Assembly. So where did the suddenly bustle come from?

It would be recalled that the crux of the opposition to the original PIB by the foreign oil operators was that it will create a harsh environment that would materially change the economics of the existing and new operations particularly in the deepwater regions. Undoubtedly, the tax changes would instigate an increased government take from an average of 73% to a projected 82% under the original PIB terms. This calculation was derived on projections of a mid-size deepwater oil field with production of around 50 million barrels a year and oil price of US$75bbl. Therefore, the groundswell of opposition to the PIB is not farfetched since the existing arrangements have put the foreign oil companies in advantage positions of reaping greater share from higher production and current high oil prices.

Nigerian fiscal terms are currently lenient compared to its peers, particularly the countries with the same geological character. For instance, Libya has 93% government take and UAE Abu Dhabi is on an average of 94%. Recent trends in global fiscal terms especially in this era of rising oil prices have built-in mechanisms of increased government share in windfall prices through increased royalty/taxes and linkages of royalty/tax rates to prevailing prices to ensure automatic adjustment of government share to price increases. But it's not so in the arrangements.

Now, this is the real picture of the covert maneuvering against the government's intentions as entailed in the spirit of the original PIB:

There are two most critical government offices whose influences and decisions would heavily or rather exclusively determine how the new draft PIB is packaged: the Department of Petroleum Resources (DPR) and the Office of the Minister of Petroleum Resources. Whatever goes into the new draft and comes out as the final copy to be endorsed as law depends on these two offices attached to the Presidency.
Also, the single most critical anticipated outcome of the oil and gas sector reform initiative is the emergence of an autonomous and powerful policing agency- the Petroleum Inspectorate, which would not only make sure things are done the right way, but insist the interest of the nation is not short-circuited by the foreign operators and their Nigerian collaborators.

Now, these two agencies (offices), DPR and Office of the Minister of Petroleum, have been hijacked by the Anglo-Dutch oil concern, Shell Petroleum Development Company.

This is it: The appointment of Diezani Allison-Madueke as the minister of Petroleum Resources was a historic event. She came into the Yar'adua government in 2007 from her position as a Director of Shell Petroleum Development Company (SPDC). She is a Shell girl having grown up with her parents who were employees of Shell.

Allison-Madueke studied architecture in Washington D.C. before returning to Nigeria in 1992 to work for her father's old employer -Shell. Over the next 15 years she rose to become Shell's first female director in Nigeria, before she was appointed minister in 2007.

Now this Shell girl (woman) whose first name Diezani means "look before you leap" in her local izon dialect is the alpha and omega in the new draft PIB which means to a great extent, she determines or rather influences what goes into it. She also will have to oversee its implementation when passed into law by the National Assembly at least until the end of the life of this administration.

And as if this was not enough, recently also, President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan approved the appointment of Mr. Osten Oluyemisi Olorunsola as the new Director of the Department of Petroleum Resources (DPR) which is expected to metamorphose into the policing agency- The Petroleum Inspectorate.
Before the appointment, Olorunsola was the Vice-President (Gas) at Shell Upstream International. He has served as Strategic Business Adviser to the Minister of Petroleum Resources (2008-2009); Manager, Opportunity Delivery and Studies Centre, Shell; Reserves and Technology Manager (Africa), Shell (E&P) International, Netherlands; Business Interface Manager (Russia), Shell Technology (E&P) International, Netherlands; and Petroleum Engineering Manager, Shell Nigeria. He is an indigene of Kogi State where the present NNPC group managing director, Austin Oniwon also hails from.

Interestingly, the Presidency did not give any reason for bringing another Shell director to take over the DPR at this critical time of the dirty politics of oil and gas sector reforms.

Is the picture clearer now? A company, Shell, at the forefront of the protest and threats against the original PIB and the entire spirit of reform in the nation's oil and gas sector is now covertly dictating what goes into the new draft.

It is outright nonsense for anybody to claim that the appointment of the new DPR boss was based on merit. Agreed he is well qualified by experience and as a Nigerian also, but is it only in Shell we have well-qualified Nigerians to head the DPR and other sensitive oil and gas monitoring and regulating agencies? There are scores of equally well-qualified Nigerians all over the place including the current DPR system, NNPC and even in indigenous private oil and gas businesses.

And then if we must poach from from the IOCs, must it be Shell when we already have a Shell woman as our minister of Petroleum? Are there no Nigerians in Dubri and Consolidated Oil amongst others? Are there no Nigerians in Nigerian Agip, TotalFinaElf, ExxonMobil, and Chevron amongst others? You see the deceit?
The crucial question is: why should a Shell director, a top management staff, who is doing very well in the organization and with very bright chances of heading Shell Nigeria and even Shell worldwide scheme to grab the office of a civil servant (the DPR director) with no special attraction minus bribe and corruption?

Whosoever does not know should know now that the loyalty of any Shell staff especially those who rose to top senior positions whether retired or still active in service is first to the company before the country-Nigeria.

This is an outright challenge to the civil society groups and all stakeholders particularly the media to show genuine interest in what provisions are included in this new document. We should all wake up and constructively engage (even confront if necessary) the National Assembly on this matter that borders heavily on Nigeria's strategic economic interest. I don talk my own o!

IFEANYI IZEZE, ABUJA

Obugi
Feb 21, 2012, 04:09 PM
Mikky,


Meanwhile, we still buy petrol at N145 per litre in PH due to scarcity of fuel at the station.

The rot definitely continues. The Cabal has won again.

Actually it's not the cabal winning, it's the market. I predicted as much that this would CONTINUE to be the case. Fuel has never been generally available at the official price in the East. I keep asking people to find out where the fuel sold in the East comes from, simple question with a profound answer.

No matter what happens, someone will pay full price. The only reason Lagos has cheap fuel now is because most of the import depots are located there and what little imported fuel that the Fed Govt can afford to subsidize is in is sold in Lagos.

The fuel subsidy is actually what keeps the cabal in business. Complete deregulation will turn them into competitive businesses and the result will be cheaper fuel. Right now they can afford NOT to compete because the Fed Govt pays them a guaranteed profit.

Agens,

The Fed Govt is set to borrow 1.3trillion this year. Sure!

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

agensheku
Feb 21, 2012, 04:31 PM
Meanwhile, we still buy petrol at N145 per litre in PH due to scarcity of fuel at the station.

The rot definitely continues. The Cabal has won again.

MJ,

In January when those who really needed fuel occupied Ojota and most states up North the "most patriotic" citizens from Port Harcourt and so on stood by and laughed it off! What have you got for your patience and faithful follow-follow?

Listening to the House of Reps probe proceedings on Oil subsidy, you too would agree that "a lot of water has passed under the bridge". Now, GEJ has even said "SURE" is no longer sure again, so the Christopher Kolade Committee has suddenly become "DOA"...dead on arrival!

You may buy yourself a horse that uses "bio-fuel" and forget queues since it only needs hay and water and you wont need to rely on any cabal again. Or if you like, a camel to take care of your long-distance tours. Bon Voyage!

emj
Feb 21, 2012, 04:41 PM
Hehehehe, woyo Allah seriki .......SURE not possible? Impossibicat mba, it has to be o ehen, it just has to be.
No wonderrrrrr,Kia all this technocrats and so called intellectuals can never be trusted.
They are all Obote men.

Btw, wias sinator Picats?

Ajibs
Feb 21, 2012, 05:03 PM
SOURCE:www.punchng.com/news/fuel-subsidy-not-possible-again

NOTE: Will they also withdraw the 1500 hurriedly-purchased buses meant as part of palliatives? Government by committees, panic actions and brazen recants! An evidence that the cabal may get away with their rip-offs exposed by NASS.:rolleyes::biggrin:Agens

Agens,
Are you trying to say this comes as a surprise? Is this not what I said would happen when the subsidy removal was stopped? Go check my thread on this. Nah now we go come vex?? I said that the removal should have been allowed to stay and the fight should shift to ensure we got what was promised in the SuRE program, una no gree, now we are awaiting a "new document" then we are going to end up with two parallel documents which will lead to more government waste...

agensheku
Feb 21, 2012, 05:34 PM
Agens,
Are you trying to say this comes as a surprise? Is this not what I said would happen when the subsidy removal was stopped? Go check my thread on this. Nah now we go come vex?? I said that the removal should have been allowed to stay and the fight should shift to ensure we got what was promised in the SuRE program, una no gree, now we are awaiting a "new document" then we are going to end up with two parallel documents which will lead to more government waste...

What would surprise me is if GEJ did not reverse himself! I am shocked he said the programme was "hurriedly put up"! As in, no planning with Options A and/or B before subsidy removal. They did it as a fait accompli!? That definitely was why it took the government vital days and lost manhours to reverse the removed subsidy to N97.

Again, good and noble as subsidy removal and SURE may be, have the revelations at the NASS probe on Oil subsidy reinforced anyone s confidence in government handling of the issue, moreso when billions were undeservedly paid to brief-case-carrying companies? Whatever, history would remember the role of everybody in future.

Mikky jaga
Feb 21, 2012, 05:50 PM
MJ,

In January when those who really needed fuel occupied Ojota and most states up North the "most patriotic" citizens from Port Harcourt and so on stood by and laughed it off! What have you got for your patience and faithful follow-follow?

Listening to the House of Reps probe proceedings on Oil subsidy, you too would agree that "a lot of water has passed under the bridge". Now, GEJ has even said "SURE" is no longer sure again, so the Christopher Kolade Committee has suddenly become "DOA"...dead on arrival!

You may buy yourself a horse that uses "bio-fuel" and forget queues since it only needs hay and water and you wont need to rely on any cabal again. Or if you like, a camel to take care of your long-distance tours. Bon Voyage!

My brother, the thing tire me o! Even President's own state that obediently refused to join the trouble makers in Lagos to occupy Nigeria is even worse. No light, No fuel. But God dey sha.

emj
Feb 21, 2012, 06:05 PM
My brother, the thing tire me o! Even President's own state that obediently refused to join the trouble makers in Lagos to occupy Nigeria is even worse. No light, No fuel. But God dey sha.

Hehehehe abegy make una manage am liak dat....

agensheku
Feb 21, 2012, 06:21 PM
My brother, the thing tire me o! Even President's own state that obediently refused to join the trouble makers in Lagos to occupy Nigeria is even worse. No light, No fuel. But God dey sha.

Look out for the silver(ok, make that Dixon so Bobo no go vex):D lining in the cloud, if GEJ had a hand in installing his home state s Governor and that one fails to provide fuel and light, they may be stoned together in no distant future!:eek:

Auspicious
Feb 21, 2012, 06:57 PM
-

Auspy: If this is not ogboju 419, what else can it be?

Suspy: Eeerr..Ogboju 420? :lol:

Auspy: Oh please this isn't funny ONE BIT! :mad:

Suspy: Hey, why are you acting all surprised?

Auspy: Because it is bare-naked deception!

Suspy: Tell me Auspy, when haven't you folks been at the receiving-end of such?

Auspy: Receiving end of what?

Suspy: Deception. Manipulation. Exploitation - whatever you choose to call it.

Auspy: That doesn't mean we can't get angry about it.

Suspy: Well, yeah there is getting angry, and then there is doing something about it.

Auspy: But, fcuk! Can you believe the effrontery?? Why promise then?

Suspy: There you go again..as if you're not Nigerian..:rolleyes:

Auspy: But can't you see what this means?

Suspy: Oh yes I do! :lol: It means your leaders have absolutely no regard for y'all.

Auspy: Grrrr...!

Suspy: Yeah, it means they have NO fear of accountability to your Hundred and Fifty Million lot.

Auspy: Un-Believable.

Suspy: You better believe it. And begin to do something about it rather than moan in perpetuity.

Auspy: I just don't believe it - it's like..like..argh, THEY'RE NOT EVEN AFRAID!!! :mad:

Suspy: Nope. And you know why they're not afraid? You wanna know why?

Auspy: Why, cuz we haven't taught them a lesson not to mess with us?

Suspy: Precisely. Nuff Said.

<iframe width="580" height="295" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZHcYQCZZ-gM?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
--

Nkire
Feb 21, 2012, 07:04 PM
Confusion will continue to reign and rule in Nigeria until some people realize that welfare is unworthy of human existence and does not work in the long run. The answer to Nigeria's problem [which, w/o a doubt should limit corruption] is less government and more activity in the private sector - market forces.

What will save Nigeria is innovation and competition not the hugely visible hand of the government in everything, which has derailed growth and have brought about an entitlement mentality in the minds of a large portion of the population.
Deregulation is needed in all sectors of the economy, which ultimately will influence innovation and competition and eventually, reduction in most of the prices of the basic commodities including energy.

The obvious example staring us on the face if we care to look is the price and availability of gsm. Imagine what the availability of mobile telephony in Nigeria will be today if it was run by NITEL or some other government quasi-enterprise?

Because of corruption and the air of entitlement that pervade the land, some Nigerians are unable to see a paradigm shift when it occurs and the inherent benefits. The shift is that the era of government ownership and manipulation of market forces is over. It is corruption and air of entitlement that is keeping this dying snake alive. We know what will happen to the dying snake since there is no medicine to cure death. It is just a matter of time!

Cheers,
Nkire

valteena
Feb 21, 2012, 07:16 PM
Agens,
Are you trying to say this comes as a surprise? Is this not what I said would happen when the subsidy removal was stopped? Go check my thread on this. Nah now we go come vex?? I said that the removal should have been allowed to stay and the fight should shift to ensure we got what was promised in the SuRE program, una no gree, now we are awaiting a "new document" then we are going to end up with two parallel documents which will lead to more government waste...

No mind baba agens jare:D Him no gree make them remove subsidy yet him want to benefit from SURE money. If dem no remove subsidy na from where the money go come for SURE. See wayo people wey want to have their cake and eat it at the same time.:p

Enyi
Feb 21, 2012, 08:02 PM
Deregulation is needed in all sectors of the economy, which ultimately will influence innovation and competition and eventually, reduction in most of the prices of the basic commodities including energy.

The obvious example staring us on the face if we care to look is the price and availability of gsm. Imagine what the availability of mobile telephony in Nigeria will be today if it was run by NITEL or some other government quasi-enterprise? Nkire

I guess that this will continue to be a divisive topic. IMO, I do not believe that it is a simple straightforward matter. Government has some social responsibilities towards the citizens. No doubt, complete deregulation will enhance efficiency. The question is- at what cost? How many families can afford to send their kids to school up to the university level, if education is completely deregulated? Some may advocate the system in US and Canada where university students take loans to pay fees. Is loan easily available in Nigeria? The banks will give you one million reasons why they will not support such a venture. Let's look at the Health sector. What percentage of the population will have access to healthcare, if it is completely deregulated? Again, some have argued that we should practise family planning. Nothing wrong with that except that while we plan for that, we must cater for the kids who are already in the world.
The case of gsm is interesting. Before, I tackle that let's see what is happening in Nipost. Before the war, mails were delivered on time. The cities in the East had people who delivered mails from house to house once or twice daily. The postal system was run by the government. It will be interesting to find out why it degenerated later.
I suspect that one of the setbacks was the decree passed during OBJ's era that the governments and parastatals could not be sued. This gave NEPA and others the license to misbehave with impunity.
Finally, European and American governments will not dream of removing farm subsidies because they know what will happen. We must not lose sight of the level of poverty and unemployment in the country. Does US and other advanced countries not have social security?
My position therefore, is that subsidy removal should not only be in phases but must be targeted and go hand in hand with a determined effort by governments to cut their profligacy. There is no point in public officers driving about in vehicles fueled by the government and asking others to buy fuel for their cars at market price.

Ajibs
Feb 21, 2012, 08:20 PM
What would surprise me is if GEJ did not reverse himself! I am shocked he said the programme was "hurriedly put up"! As in, no planning with Options A and/or B before subsidy removal. They did it as a fait accompli!? That definitely was why it took the government vital days and lost manhours to reverse the removed subsidy to N97.

Again, good and noble as subsidy removal and SURE may be, have the revelations at the NASS probe on Oil subsidy reinforced anyone s confidence in government handling of the issue, moreso when billions were undeservedly paid to brief-case-carrying companies? Whatever, history would remember the role of everybody in future.

Agens,
Don't mind my good dokitor of Aso Rock. Shebi we argued it that time, MOST of the projects listed were old projects. I believe we all agreed on that aspect of the program. What was different is we were now told those specific programs that have been eluding us for years for example the construction of THREE now Crude Oil refineries, in Lagos, Kogi and Bayelsa States would be built via SuRE program with subsidy savings adding over 300,000 bpd to local consumption. So rather than the 5,000 enjoying all the largess as exposed by NASS, we all would have benefited from something. Real infrastructural development.

By October 1st 2013 we would have been able to ask Oga president, where is our three new refineries? Where are our new railway roads? Where is our electricity? We would have had tangible items to start "Scatta Scatta Naija 2" (I hate that borrow borrow occupy jargon...) and if we did not see them by 2015, we would have thrown him, and his SuRE program not only out of office, but maybe into kirikiri...

But una no gree... see now, see where we dey now dem dey play ten-ten wit us now...

Just to repeat again...

It was Nigerian governments that built what Nigeria had before, not colonial government. Not Nigerians with two and three heads. Murtala / Obasanjo built refineries in his first outing. Naija government built Lagos-Ibadan and Lagos-Benin. Naija government, military dictators IBB and Abacha for that matter (kai imagine!) built a brand new well planned capital city from scratch, Abuja. Highways connecting all of Nigeria... IBB built the Third Mainland Bridge.. Kai imagine I have to own up and say that!

And you want to tell me they did not chop money all that time??? Please O! I begi

agensheku
Feb 22, 2012, 07:19 AM
NAR and Valteena,

Shame just dey catch me say na when we have a government filled with 2-a-penny PhDs, including even spokesmen that we are now being ruled as if those in charge are mere journeymen!

How much refined PMS do we use per day...no reasonable answer!

What quantity do they import per day...dunno!

How much exactly do you spend on subsidy per month...em em em!!!!

Now, without those promised palliatives, would the strike have been called off?

Here is the anticipated reaction......LABOUR DEMANDS THAT GEJ SHOULD REVERT PMS PRICE TO N65/LITRE


THE stage appeared set for another round of showdown between President Goodluck Jonathan and labour unions on the issue of fuel subsidy with labour on Tuesday asking the Federal Government to revert the pump price of petrol to N65 per litre.

The Nigeria Labour Congress and the Association of Senior Civil Servants of Nigeria said the Jonathan administration had no option other than to reverse the price from its present N97 to the old N65 per litre since the President had said he was rethinking the Subsidy Reinvestment and Empowerment programme.

Jonathan on Monday reportedly told chieftains of the Peoples Democratic Party at their 58th National Executive Committee meeting in Abuja that implementation of the palliatives to cushion the effects of subsidy removal were no longer feasible.

The President said the palliatives had been based on the 100 per cent removal of subsidy on local consumption of fuel.

"This (SURE) is developed with the expectation that we were going to completely deregulate the Downstream sector of the oil industry, the 100 per cent removal of subsidy... we will still come up with a document based on what we get," he told the PDP members and ordered them to withdraw the circulated SURE document.

The SURE programme had been hurriedly designed in January to douse the tension generated by the sudden removal of subsidy and consequent jump in the pump price of petrol.

The Senate has said it is backing the action of the President. Leader of the Senate, Victor Ndoma-Egba, said Jonathan made the plans based on zero-subsidy arrangement and for which the 2012 budget was prepared.

"The President said he wanted to remove subsidy, Nigerians said they don't want it removed. Now that he was not able to realise his plan, where will he get the money to carry out that policy," Ndoma-Egba said.

He, however, stated that the President would still need to work with the savings made from the partial removal of subsidy.

"The President will have to look at the proceeds from partial deregulation and work with what is saved. That is the reason why the document earlier produced should be revised to reflect the current realities," he said.

Apart from the NLC and the ASCN, the House of Representatives also on Tuesday took a swipe at the President and said it was vindicated concerning its pessimism over the government palliatives.:thumbs up:

The Acting General Secretary of the NLC, Mr. Owei Lakemfa, in a telephone interview with one of our correspondents on Tuesday said the Federal Government had no option but to revert the fuel pump price from the current N97 to the pre-2012 pump price of fuel.

He said that a recent advertisement in a national daily in which the Minister of Finance, Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, claimed that the Federal Government realised N15b allocation from the proposed subsidy savings supported the claim that the Federal Government was making some money from the regime change in the pump price of fuel and that the funds realised from the fuel price increase should be adequately utilised to execute projects.

According to Lakemfa, the Federal Government is only trying to prepare the minds of Nigerians against expecting results from the increase in the pump price of petrol in the country by announcing the withdrawal of the programme.

He urged the government to fulfil its promise to use the proceeds of fuel price increase to construct roads, build a second Niger bridge, and other promises contained in the SURE document.

He said that the Nigerian citizenry was seriously interested in what the Federal Government could do with the proceeds from the increase in the pump price of petroleum products.

He called on the Federal Government to ensure that the Ministries of Petroleum and Finance were cleansed based on the serious discoveries made at the Subsidy Probe by the House of Representatives.

"Right from the onset, organised labour believed that the Federal Government was not sincere with this programme but the government claimed that we were going to get results in six months. What government is saying now is that we should not expect results," the NLC scribe said.

Also, the House of Representatives said that it was not surprised that the President withdrew its promised fuel subsidy removal palliatives.

The House noted that the development vindicated its opposition to the SURE programme, particularly the "hurried manner" the executive introduced the document without consulting the National Assembly.

The Chairman of the House Committee on Media and Public Affairs, Mr. Zakari Mohammed, explained that the legislature had consistently held the view that Nigerians needed to be consulted on the programme.

He added, "We have been vindicated because we had initially opposed the hurried manner the SURE document was put together.

"We were saying that the funds for this programme needed to be properly appropriated by the National Assembly and more so that we needed to have the details of the programme."

Mohammed, however, commended Jonathan for realising that something went wrong and retracing his steps.

The Minority Leader of the House, Mr. Femi Gbajabiamila, who shared the same view, told THE PUNCH in Abuja that the palliatives were a "dummy right from the start."

He argued that the President was merely attempting to "pull the wool" over the faces of Nigerians by promising palliatives that were theirs by right.

Gbajabiamila stated, "Under Section 17 of the 1999 Constitution (as amended), government is mandated to provide the same services it has promised as palliatives.

"The issues of health, transport and all that; these are the fundamental duties that government owes the citizenry.

"You cannot give me what rightly belongs to me in the guise of palliatives, while taking away the subsidy that I ought to enjoy.

"So, I am not surprised that they have decided to withdraw it; it was a dummy that I never ever bought."

Criticising the President, the National Publicity Secretary of the CPC, Mr. Rotimi Fashakin, said the administration was not committed to responsible governance.

"All along, as a party, we knew the idea of SURE was a knee-jerk response to the people's protest and not a well thought-out intervention to stymie the dire impoverishment of the people," Fashakin said.

President, Campaign for Democracy, Dr. Joe Okei-Odumakin, said it was evident from the outset that Jonathan was not committed to the implementation of the SURE programme.

"They never meant it (SURE). It was just propaganda to make people swallow poison. Corruption still persists so how can anyone trust the regime to implement SURE. Cosmetic palliatives can never cushion any effect," she said.

The Secretary-General of ASCSN and founding Secretary-General of the Trade Union Congress of Nigeria, Mr. Solomon Onaghinon, in an interview with one of our correspondents said, "There is social crisis in Nigeria."

He said, "There were no palliatives in the first place; I have always said that those palliatives do not make sense because government said they would be paying salaries on the 20th of every month but have they paid? There is no palliative.

"For those people who really listened carefully, they would have known that there was no palliative. If the President said the palliatives are no longer feasible, let him bring the fuel price back to N65 per litre."

SOURCE:www.punchng.com

note: And the cheek of it! GEJ used a PDP meeting as forum to make a very important announcement as if he does not appreciate the gravity of his utterances and the consequences that may arise therefrom.

Obviously, when one lacks the requisite experience and occupies a big position, it shows day-by-day.:o In the industries, there is no room for learning on the job, but in politics, Nija style...DE CARRY GO joo!:D Agens

agensheku
Feb 22, 2012, 07:52 AM
Agens,
Don't mind my good dokitor of Aso Rock. Shebi we argued it that time, MOST of the projects listed were old projects. I believe we all agreed on that aspect of the program. What was different is we were now told those specific programs that have been eluding us for years for example the construction of THREE now Crude Oil refineries, in Lagos, Kogi and Bayelsa States would be built via SuRE program with subsidy savings adding over 300,000 bpd to local consumption. So rather than the 5,000 enjoying all the largess as exposed by NASS, we all would have benefited from something. Real infrastructural development.

By October 1st 2013 we would have been able to ask Oga president, where is our three new refineries? Where are our new railway roads? Where is our electricity? We would have had tangible items to start "Scatta Scatta Naija 2" (I hate that borrow borrow occupy jargon...) and if we did not see them by 2015, we would have thrown him, and his SuRE program not only out of office, but maybe into kirikiri...

But una no gree... see now, see where we dey now dem dey play ten-ten wit us now...

Just to repeat again...

It was Nigerian governments that built what Nigeria had before, not colonial government. Not Nigerians with two and three heads. Murtala / Obasanjo built refineries in his first outing. Naija government built Lagos-Ibadan and Lagos-Benin. Naija government, military dictators IBB and Abacha for that matter (kai imagine!) built a brand new well planned capital city from scratch, Abuja. Highways connecting all of Nigeria... IBB built the Third Mainland Bridge.. Kai imagine I have to own up and say that!

And you want to tell me they did not chop money all that time??? Please O! I begi

Who knows...maybe na chop money dem ask Ribadu committee to come collect for dem!

papadonkee
Feb 22, 2012, 04:21 PM
Haba, haba, haba!!!

Say monkey na animal, no mean say na beef.

1. GEJ didn't make a public announcement per se. He came for a PDP internal meeting, saw an outdated document being distributed, and asked that it be withdrawn.

2. GEJ didn't say that the SURE programme has been cancelled. He said the original document was drawn up using the assumption that the removal of the fuel subsidy removal would be absolute and complete. We now have a situation where only 50% of the anticipated subsidy savings can be accessed by Government. Understandably, the SURE-P milestones need to be adjusted.

2015!!!

Defending GEJ is like wearing a grass-flavoured condom in preparation for being sodomised by a bull. I don't even know what the hell that means. :neutral:

Abati, do your job. Or share that salary.

*164 weeks to Election Day*

agensheku
Feb 22, 2012, 05:44 PM
Haba, haba, haba!!!

Say monkey na animal, no mean say na beef.

1. GEJ didn't make a public announcement per se. He came for a PDP internal meeting, saw an outdated document being distributed, and asked that it be withdrawn.

2. GEJ didn't say that the SURE programme has been cancelled. He said the original document was drawn up using the assumption that the removal of the fuel subsidy removal would be absolute and complete. We now have a situation where only 50% of the anticipated subsidy savings can be accessed by Government. Understandably, the SURE-P milestones need to be adjusted.

2015!!!

Defending GEJ is like wearing a grass-flavoured condom in preparation for being sodomised by a bull. I don't even know what the hell that means. :neutral:

Abati, do your job. Or share that salary.

*164 weeks to Election Day*

Shey na from N1bn food budget dem print the 100s of SURE documents being withdrawn to go to waste? Again, I ask, what becomes of the 1,500 buses hurriedly purchased and some distributed before the strike was called off? If GEJ was to change his mind, could he not have invited Labour to sound them out?

Impunity and democracy are strange bedfellows.

Mikky jaga
Feb 22, 2012, 06:10 PM
If the fuel subsidy removal will be in phases, let the SURE projects also be in phases.

Removing the original document for which the government convinced us to agree to price increment is deceptive.

Tell us what percentage of the subsidy has been removed and match that with the percentage of the SURE projects to be completed and at what time. That is how not to be a 419 or 420 president.

I back the call for a reversal to N65 if the SURE document will be removed. But can I trust labour?

First-lady
Feb 22, 2012, 06:20 PM
I am not following this topic
can someone break it down in simple language

papadonkee
Feb 22, 2012, 06:39 PM
Jonathan launches 1,100 mass transit buses...Denies trip to S/Africa


ABUJA - AS earlier promised in his nationwide broadcast on Saturday, President Goodluck Jonathan, yesterday, formally launched 1,100 buses under the mass transit scheme, describing it as a "unique and important programme."

Speaking during the launch, the President said the Federal Government did not buy a single bus, but only subsidized the mass transit programme, saying there was need to entrench a mass transit culture with a view to ensuring its sustainability.

The President denied insinuations, especially on social media, that he had led a large delegation to South Africa on official visit, saying he didn't travel out of Abuja yesterday, much less out of Nigeria.

According to him, the three tiers of government were collaborating with the Central Bank and transporters to bring down fares, which went up astronomically in response to the removal of oil subsidy.

Explaining why none of the governors was present at the event, Jonathan said the governors were expected to stay back at home to ensure maintenance of law and order as the Chief Security Officers of their respective states.

He said: "Today, we are not commissioning new buses, we are launching mass transit programme for Nigerians. The Federal Government is involved, the state governments are involved, the local governments are involved, the Central Bank is involved, some commercial banks are involved and of course, the transport unions are also involved, including those who manufacture and import mass transit buses.

"We have noticed that in this country, we don't have a mass transit culture. We are working with the unions to bring fares down. Let me say here that the federal government is not buying a single bus, we are subsidising the mass transit sector to reduce fares."

"It is not sustainable to buy buses. "Let me also assure all Nigerians that this government will not inflict pains on Nigerians", the President promised.

President Jonathan also assured that the ministry of transport will come up with mass transit programme for our waterways.

Speaking earlier, the Minister of Trade and Investments, Olusegun Aganga assured the nation of a sustainable and robust mass transit programme.

He was optimism that following some manufacturers of mass transit buses who were already expressing interest in building plants in Nigeria, the process would generate thousands of jobs.

Also, President of the NURTW, Alhaji Nojeem Yasin said the union supported the programme as away of empowering his members and to force down transport fares.

The brief event was witnessed by ministers, top government officials and captains of industry.LINK (http://www.vanguardngr.com/2012/01/jonathan-launches-1100-mass-transit-buses/)






Nigerian govt to procure 1,600 mass transit buses

*Orders MDAs to pay January salaries on 20th*


ABUJA - President Goodluck Jonathan and cabinet members, Wednesday, rose from an emergency session of the Federal Executive Council, FEC, with an approval for the Federal Government to procure 1,600 mass transit buses on Monday, as part of the long term plans to cushion the harsh effects of the removal of fuel subsidy.

FEC also directed all Ministries, Departments and agencies, MDAs, to pay the monthly salaries of workers by January 20 to amelliorate the harsh effect; consequently, FAAC meeting has been scheduled for January 15 to deliberate on the revenue sharing for the month.

Addressing State House correspondents, at the end of an emergency Federal Executive Council, FEC, meeting, presided over by President Goodluck Jonathan, at the Presidential Villa, Abuja, Olusegun Aganga, minister of trade and investment who was joined by Labaran Maku, minister of information and Idris Umar, minister of transportation, said the 1,600 mass transit buses formed part of the N10 billion revolving loan set aside by the government to address transport infrastructure in the country.

The revolving loan according to him is payable over a five years period and attracts a 5 per cent interest rate under the Urban Mass Transit Programme and would be made available to credible transporters, labour unions and other Nigerians involved in transport business.

According to him "we have a duty to turn short term pain to long term gains," adding that "government has placed order for massive supply of decent diesel buses to solve transportation problem. In the next couple of weeks, there will be sufficient mass transit buses. It will go on for two years".

Aganga stated further that "any moment from now, we should take delivery of these buses. As the Federal Executive Council, we are not here to punish Nigerians".

"For the first time, we want to put in place a sustainable robust mass transit programme", says loan at five per cent interest rate to be made available to transporters "to reduce the pains fellow Nigerians are going through now", he said.

The minister argued that contrary to reports, the subsidy issue actually started in 2009 adding that "we have been undertaking poverty and social impact analysis to see what impact this will have on Nigerians. That is because we realised the pain it will cause and today's meeting gave us the opportunity to empathise and to know that it was a very painful decision".

"I think we will all agree that the economy case has been a case of how and when but we have a duty as government to cushion the temporary pains. We have a duty to convert the pain to long term gains for Nigerians and the economy," he said.

On the outcome of the meeting, Maku disclosed that "the meeting was called to deliberate on very crucial national issue particularly on the deregulation of the downstream sector of the Nigerian oil industry" adding that "Mr. President called the meeting to expedite action on the measures to cushion the effects of the removal of fuel subsidy".

He regretted that "previous government has postponed deregulation, the intended benefits did not come true because for as long as government continuous to monopolise the sector, no private sector will come in and invest".LINK (http://sweetcrudereports.com/2012/01/04/nigerian-govt-to-procure-1600-mass-transit-buses/)


From what I understand, there was a pre-existing mass transit loan scheme that GEJ just co-opted into the SURE-P thingy. What they claim to have done is set aside some more interest-free loans for mass transit operators to buy diesel-powered buses; and it is through this access to cheap capital they claim to be subsidising mass transportation.

2015!!!

This is what the Minister of State for the Niger Delta, Zainab Ibrahim Kuchi, said in January on Channels:


We started a subsidised mass transit scheme of about 1600 diesel-engine buses in 2010 and funded it with a 10 billion Naira revolving grant. Labour took about 400 buses. Where are the buses? And they are talking.

Funny though, that Aganga would say the FG has ordered for a huge amount of buses and they'll be arriving "any moment from now". Strange.

papadonkee
Feb 22, 2012, 06:42 PM
I am not following this topic
can someone break it down in simple language

GEJ said because he was unable to get all the subsidy savings, he will have to re-write the achievables contained in the SURE programme.

The Press, Labour, and opposition parties have twisted this to mean no palliatives will be provided by the FG.

2015!!!

Just another example of our Great Leader's unique gift of taking the simplest idea, and making it impossible to understand.

papadonkee
Feb 22, 2012, 06:47 PM
If the fuel subsidy removal will be in phases, let the SURE projects also be in phases.

Removing the original document for which the government convinced us to agree to price increment is deceptive.

Tell us what percentage of the subsidy has been removed and match that with the percentage of the SURE projects to be completed and at what time. That is how not to be a 419 or 420 president.

I back the call for a reversal to N65 if the SURE document will be removed. But can I trust labour?

The SURE-P document was built on the foundation of 100% subsidy removal.

Now, surely if Nigerians negotiated for a different subsidy removal percentage, GEJ reserves the right to adjust his own proposal?

2015!!!

The document hasn't been withdrawn. It is being re-worked.

N65 has gone down the nostalgic path of chicken dinners at Nigerian universities, and Naira-Dollar parity.

Mikky jaga
Feb 22, 2012, 06:51 PM
Funny though, that Aganga would say the FG has ordered for a huge amount of buses and they'll be arriving "any moment from now". Strange.

The summary is that the government is confused. Nobody knows what anybody is doing in that government.


Let me say here that the federal government is not buying a single bus, we are subsidising the mass transit sector to reduce fares.

We are removing subsidy that will increase fares and subsidising mass transit sector to reduce fares!

One step forward, two steps backwards. Are we for subsidy or not?

Mikky jaga
Feb 22, 2012, 06:58 PM
The SURE-P document was built on the foundation of 100% subsidy removal.

Now, surely if Nigerians negotiated for a different subsidy removal percentage, GEJ reserves the right to adjust his own proposal?

2015!!!

The document hasn't been withdrawn. It is being re-worked.

N65 has gone down the nostalgic path of chicken dinners at Nigerian universities, and Naira-Dollar parity.

I have argued here in the past in favour of phased deregulation because Nigerians do not trust the government to be able to do what it says.

All I am saying is that the original document needs not be reworked. If the percentage of fuel subsidy removed so far is 50%, let the government select 50% of the original Sure projects for implementation and produce a time frame for completion. Simple.

Reworking the document gives room tor wayo, ojoro and the rest.

N65 gone? Where? I am still standing on June 12 not to talk of N65 of yesterday

Ajibs
Feb 22, 2012, 09:43 PM
This man is not serious...
Gbajabiamila stated, "Under Section 17 of the 1999 Constitution (as amended), government is mandated to provide the same services it has promised as palliatives.

"The issues of health, transport and all that; these are the fundamental duties that government owes the citizenry.

"You cannot give me what rightly belongs to me in the guise of palliatives, while taking away the subsidy that I ought to enjoy.


One word to describe dat honorable: Socialist.

This is how the constitution gets twisted. The section the man quotes says:


17. (1) The State social order is founded on ideals of Freedom, Equality and Justice.

(2) In furtherance of the social order-

(a) every citizen shall have equality of rights, obligations and opportunities before the law;

(b) the sanctity of the human person shall be recognised and human dignity shall be maintained and enhanced;

(c) governmental actions shall be humane;

(d) exploitation of human or natural resources in any form whatsoever for reasons, other than the good of the community, shall be prevented; and

(e) the independence, impartiality and integrity of courts of law, and easy accessibility thereto shall be secured and maintained.

(3) The State shall direct its policy towards ensuring that-

(a) all citizens, without discrimination on any group whatsoever, have the opportunity for securing adequate means of livelihood as well as adequate opportunity to secure suitable employment;

(b) conditions of work are just and humane, and that there are adequate facilities for leisure and for social, religious and cultural life;

(c) the health, safety and welfare of all persons in employment are safeguarded and not endangered or abused;

(d) there are adequate medical and health facilities for all persons:

(e) there is equal pay for equal work without discrimination on account of sex, or on any other ground whatsoever;

(f) children, young persons and the age are protected against any exploitation whatsoever, and against moral and material neglect;

(g) provision is made for public assistance in deserving cases or other conditions of need; and

(h) the evolution and promotion of family life is encouraged.

Please note the difference;

The State shall direct its policy towards ensuring...

This is very different from:

The state shall itself directly provide...



Enyi,

You said:

I guess that this will continue to be a divisive topic. IMO, I do not believe that it is a simple straightforward matter. Government has some social responsibilities towards the citizens.

Like the honorable above, it appears you also harbor a Socialist viewpoint / economic ideology and that indeed is very different from a Capitalist, market driven viewpoint / economy.

Also how do you come about categorizing fuel subsidy as as "social responsibility". I think the issue here is we cannot have it all. If we want Free Education, and healthcare, then maybe our Fuel cannot be "free".

I bought fuel here in the US yesterday at $3.63 at today exchange rate that is N577.75 please note that is per gallon. But the point is last week, I bought it at $3.57! So the price fluctuates daily. But I Nigeria for the last how many years fuel has remained at N65 per liter. And the US ALSO produces and refines crude oil locally...

Anyhow let me not start that argument again. Suffice to say indeed, it comes down to a difference in ideology. My point is that we again missed a window to get some tangible and lasting benefits from the FG in favor of short time gain.

agensheku
Feb 23, 2012, 06:05 AM
This man is not serious...

One word to describe dat honorable: Socialist.

This is how the constitution gets twisted. The section the man quotes says:



Please note the difference;

The State shall direct its policy towards ensuring...

This is very different from:

The state shall itself directly provide...



Enyi,

You said:


Like the honorable above, it appears you also harbor a Socialist viewpoint / economic ideology and that indeed is very different from a Capitalist, market driven viewpoint / economy.

Also how do you come about categorizing fuel subsidy as as "social responsibility". I think the issue here is we cannot have it all. If we want Free Education, and healthcare, then maybe our Fuel cannot be "free".

I bought fuel here in the US yesterday at $3.63 at today exchange rate that is N577.75 please note that is per gallon. But the point is last week, I bought it at $3.57! So the price fluctuates daily. But I Nigeria for the last how many years fuel has remained at N65 per liter. And the US ALSO produces and refines crude oil locally...

Anyhow let me not start that argument again. Suffice to say indeed, it comes down to a difference in ideology. My point is that we again missed a window to get some tangible and lasting benefits from the FG in favor of short time gain.

There is no basis under the sun to compare fuel prices in America with those of Nigerians. If you must, the conditions in the two nations have to be at par.

Does Obama eat free One billion dollar food at Americans expense? Does he change his mind unilaterally reviewing policies without carrying Americans along? Does America not know how much PMS it produces, imports and/or uses per day?:embarassed:

Do ministers/secretaries and brief-case importers of PMS get rich quick at Americans expense?!:evil:

Any government that runs like a mafia is a Lootocracy: govt of looters, by looters for looters!:redface::twisted:

agensheku
Feb 23, 2012, 06:29 AM
Senate invites Okonjo-Iweala, Alison-Madueke, Oniwon, others
By Onyedi Ojiabor, Assistant Editor


Worried by the persistent fuel scarcity in some parts of the country, the Senate yesterday invited the Minister of Finance, Mrs. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, her Petroleum Resources counterpart, Mrs. Diezani Alison-Madueke and the Group Managing Director, Nigeria National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC), Mr. Austin Oniwon.

They are to appear today before the Senate Committee on Petroleum Resources (Downstream) to explain the reason behind the scarcity.

The Senator Magnus Abe-led committee said it is worried that Nigerians have had to pass through harrowing experience to buy fuel.

The Federal Capital Territory (FCT) has continued to experience acute fuel scarcity since last week. :evil:( No fuel in Abuja, Bayelsa and so on and some people sit there feeding fat on us all!:o Na wah o! Agens)

The situation is yet to abate.

The Managing Director of the Pipeline and Products Marketing Company (PPMC), Mr. Morrison Anthony Fiddi; Executive Secretary of the Petroleum Products Pricing Regulatory Agency (PPPRA), Mr. Reginald Stanley and Director of the Department of Petroleum Resources, Mr. Austin Olorunshola are to face the committee too.

The committee also summoned the President of Independent Petroleum Marketers Association of Nigeria (IPMAN) and the Executive Secretary of Major Oil Marketers Association of Nigeria (MOMAN).

SOURCE: THE NATION newspaper

Mikky jaga
Feb 23, 2012, 07:19 AM
This man is not serious...

One word to describe dat honorable: Socialist.

This is how the constitution gets twisted. The section the man quotes says:



Please note the difference;

The State shall direct its policy towards ensuring...

This is very different from:

The state shall itself directly provide...



Enyi,

You said:


Like the honorable above, it appears you also harbor a Socialist viewpoint / economic ideology and that indeed is very different from a Capitalist, market driven viewpoint / economy.

Also how do you come about categorizing fuel subsidy as as "social responsibility". I think the issue here is we cannot have it all. If we want Free Education, and healthcare, then maybe our Fuel cannot be "free".

I bought fuel here in the US yesterday at $3.63 at today exchange rate that is N577.75 please note that is per gallon. But the point is last week, I bought it at $3.57! So the price fluctuates daily. But I Nigeria for the last how many years fuel has remained at N65 per liter. And the US ALSO produces and refines crude oil locally...

Anyhow let me not start that argument again. Suffice to say indeed, it comes down to a difference in ideology. My point is that we again missed a window to get some tangible and lasting benefits from the FG in favor of short time gain.

So, who cares whether it is socialist or capitalist? What Nigerians need is that their government is responsive to their needs. America maintains subsidy on Agriculture to ensure their large population of farmers are not thrown out of work. Is that also socialist?

And while comparing fuel prices in both US and Nigeria, I ask: How many workers in US earn N18,000 per month as minimum wage? Please do the conversion and answer the question.

Ajibs
Feb 23, 2012, 02:55 PM
There is no basis under the sun to compare fuel prices in America with those of Nigerians. If you must, the conditions in the two nations have to be at par.

Does Obama eat free One billion dollar food at Americans expense? Does he change his mind unilaterally reviewing policies without carrying Americans along? Does America not know how much PMS it produces, imports and/or uses per day?:embarassed:

Do ministers/secretaries and brief-case importers of PMS get rich quick at Americans expense?!:evil:

Any government that runs like a mafia is a Lootocracy: govt of looters, by looters for looters!:redface::twisted:

Oga Agens,
I no gree at all at all, Fa Fa Fa Fowl!!!

You do realize that no two nations in the world have similar conditions, so conditions can never be at par. However similar situations can exist. For example,look at healthcare, in the UK, it is completely different from healthcare in the US and The situations are not at par. There are differences even between the British system and the German system of health care delivery.

The basis of comparison is simple and straightforward, I will repeat it one more time:

The cost of crude oil continually fluctuates, as a result the costs of all crude oil products, also fluctuate. Hence should you decide to have a constant cost for a fluctuating product, somebody must pay that difference. Either you who buys the product or the person who provides the product to you.

I believe further, that in a situation where you socially engineer or midwife the system so that all men and women pay the same unitary price as a right, that tends towards a Socialist mentality. Note I did not say it is wrong. And similarly in a situation where you allow the market forces to drive the price of the product that is a market based, Capitalist mentality.

Now the ideology to which you believe, will drive the decision you make. Hence when a person, an elected official for that matter says that he expects fuel subsidy as as constitutional right, AND in addition infrastructural developments ALL fully paid by the government, I say that is a Socialit mentality.

As you can see, that opinion has absolutely nothing to do with the price of groundnut in the market OR how much GEJ budgets for over consumption of food in Aso Rock, OR how many briefcases are stuffed with Dollar and Naira notes.

Now I will add that what that Honorable is basically saying is he wants Government to provde everything, directly to him. this is the reason why Nigerian government is so huge and wasteful, because there must be government institutions in place to run these things and provide these services directly at little or no cost to the end user. And finally this is what has opened the door to government grossly mismanaging the national revenues that are at their disposal.

Ajibs
Feb 23, 2012, 03:48 PM
So, who cares whether it is socialist or capitalist? What Nigerians need is that their government is responsive to their needs. America maintains subsidy on Agriculture to ensure their large population of farmers are not thrown out of work. Is that also socialist?

And while comparing fuel prices in both US and Nigeria, I ask: How many workers in US earn N18,000 per month as minimum wage? Please do the conversion and answer the question.


MJ,
First, you might be unaware of how many desperately working poor also exist in the United States. But I won't go into details on that.

In Nigeria I am willing to bet if the fuel had been allowed to be completely deregulated, there would have been short term pain, and long term gain. There would have eventually been MORE people that need not earn that minimum wage of N18,000, but would be gainful employed earning a salary at par with their living expenses.

agensheku
Feb 23, 2012, 04:33 PM
Oga Agens,
I no gree at all at all, Fa Fa Fa Fowl!!!

You do realize that no two nations in the world have similar conditions, so conditions can never be at par. However similar situations can exist. For example,look at healthcare, in the UK, it is completely different from healthcare in the US and The situations are not at par. There are differences even between the British system and the German system of health care delivery.

The basis of comparison is simple and straightforward, I will repeat it one more time:

The cost of crude oil continually fluctuates, as a result the costs of all crude oil products, also fluctuate. Hence should you decide to have a constant cost for a fluctuating product, somebody must pay that difference. Either you who buys the product or the person who provides the product to you.

I believe further, that in a situation where you socially engineer or midwife the system so that all men and women pay the same unitary price as a right, that tends towards a Socialist mentality. Note I did not say it is wrong. And similarly in a situation where you allow the market forces to drive the price of the product that is a market based, Capitalist mentality.

Now the ideology to which you believe, will drive the decision you make. Hence when a person, an elected official for that matter says that he expects fuel subsidy as as constitutional right, AND in addition infrastructural developments ALL fully paid by the government, I say that is a Socialit mentality.

As you can see, that opinion has absolutely nothing to do with the price of groundnut in the market OR how much GEJ budgets for over consumption of food in Aso Rock, OR how many briefcases are stuffed with Dollar and Naira notes.

Now I will add that what that Honorable is basically saying is he wants Government to provde everything, directly to him. this is the reason why Nigerian government is so huge and wasteful, because there must be government institutions in place to run these things and provide these services directly at little or no cost to the end user. And finally this is what has opened the door to government grossly mismanaging the national revenues that are at their disposal.

Its good you are trying to educate me. What I find surprising is you probably are deliberately not seeing any visible point I am trying to make.

Have we not seen government saying it would privatise fuel supply and it at the same time tries to REGULATE the price?

All the expos that came out at the House of Reps probe on fuel supply, distribution and over-payments...how do you think the issues should be resolved...swept under the carpet and better ways of ripping us off devised?

What is to be done by "over-government", almost 60 ministers/senior special advisers/special advisers; constant globe-trotting at the upper level with the depletion of estacodes,etc

Lastly, how do we know if government had learnt ANYTHING at all from the experience of "Occupy Nigeria", when even as we speak PMS is available in some areas while its scarce in Port Harcourt, Abuja and many parts of the South East? And are you reading how kerosene, the common man s fuel is now virtually costing more than cooking gas?

We can only have our say, the decision makers would still have their ways, anyway, anyhow!

papadonkee
Feb 23, 2012, 05:06 PM
MJ,

In Nigeria I am willing to bet if the fuel had been allowed to be completely deregulated, there would have been short term pain, and long term gain.

N.A.R., you sound awfully like one famous historical figure who, whilst trying to destroy some people, made a similar argument:


You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.

2015!!!

Long term gain from the current crop of politicians? Hah! I dey laugh.

Nigeria on my mind
Feb 23, 2012, 05:30 PM
The trouble with the analysis of people like N.A.R. and Obugi in regards to this fuel subsidy issue is that they overlook the fact that everything is inverted in Nigeria, and many things make little sense. Common sense dictates that competition fuels lower prices and improved standards for the common man. There's just one small problem with that: Nigeria and common sense appear to have parted ways.

The deregulation of the Airline and telecommunications industries have not procured for us the economic El Dorado we thought they would. And I have been asking this question, but no one has obliged me with an answer - why are yams, meat, fish and eggs beyond the reach of the common man, even though these products are not subsidized by the government? And why does America, China, Japan and other leading economies continue to subsidize their local producers if subsidies are so detrimental to economic development? And why didn't Nigeria remove the subsidy until the IMF official came to Aso Rock and ordered the Jonathan administration to do so?

There is a difference between theory and practice. In theory, subsidy removal would benefit our economy. But there is theory, and then there is the "Nigerian factor".

agensheku
Feb 23, 2012, 05:48 PM
The trouble with the analysis of people like N.A.R. and Obugi in regards to this fuel subsidy issue is that they overlook the fact that everything is inverted in Nigeria, and many things make little sense. Common sense dictates that competition fuels lower prices and improved standards for the common man. There's just one small problem with that: Nigeria and common sense appear to have parted ways.

The deregulation of the Airline and telecommunications industries have not procured for us the economic El Dorado we thought they would. And I have been asking this question, but no one has obliged me with an answer - why are yams, meat, fish and eggs beyond the reach of the common man, even though these products are not subsidized by the government? And why does America, China, Japan and other leading economies continue to subsidize their local producers if subsidies are so detrimental to economic development? And why didn't Nigeria remove the subsidy until the IMF official came to Aso Rock and ordered the Jonathan administration to do so?

There is a difference between theory and practice. In theory, subsidy removal would benefit our economy. But there is theory, and then there is the "Nigerian factor".

The good life is not for the common man in Nija because they are of virtually very little value to our politicians. Once you give the common man N500 on election queue on election day, "all correct, sir!"

But the wise business moguls "subsidise" the election campaigns of politicians and once those ones get to power, they rub the back of their benefactors (who invariably also become their Swiss banks) for the rainy day! You see am?!

Ajibs
Feb 23, 2012, 09:48 PM
Its good you are trying to educate me. What I find surprising is you probably are deliberately not seeing any visible point I am trying to make.

Have we not seen government saying it would privatise fuel supply and it at the same time tries to REGULATE the price?

All the expos that came out at the House of Reps probe on fuel supply, distribution and over-payments...how do you think the issues should be resolved...swept under the carpet and better ways of ripping us off devised?

What is to be done by "over-government", almost 60 ministers/senior special advisers/special advisers; constant globe-trotting at the upper level with the depletion of estacodes,etc

Lastly, how do we know if government had learnt ANYTHING at all from the experience of "Occupy Nigeria", when even as we speak PMS is available in some areas while its scarce in Port Harcourt, Abuja and many parts of the South East? And are you reading how kerosene, the common man s fuel is now virtually costing more than cooking gas?

We can only have our say, the decision makers would still have their ways, anyway, anyhow!

Agens,

Haba, you know I agree you have to many visible points to count. But again I refer you to my theard: Fuel Subsidy Removal ACT 2: Hold the government accountable (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/67848-fuel-subsidy-removal-act-2-hold-government-accountable.html)

My argument remains, it is time to shift the emphasis of the fight. I am of the belief that the gains of getting ALL projects as outlined by the SuRE program outweigh the cons of the short term pain via the removal of subsidies. Hence we should not have allowed the government any opportunity to wriggle out of their promise to deliver on those projects.

With the compromise price of N97 we gave the government wriggle room. This is why I asked why you were surprised with the news that came out. This I had already predicted is what would happen. This is what I have said in the past:


So what should Labor not forget to do? What happens next??? Hold the government accountable to produce the stated deliverables. We have been given a long list of projects and programs that are to be implemented in lieu of the subsidy removal. And Nigerans are already RIGHTLY saying, we have heard it all before. What they are NOT saying is how they will work THIS TIME around to ensure that we actually see the projects and programs materialize.

NOMM,


The trouble with the analysis of people like N.A.R. and Obugi in regards to this fuel subsidy issue is that they overlook the fact that everything is inverted in Nigeria, and many things make little sense. Common sense dictates that competition fuels lower prices and improved standards for the common man. There's just one small problem with that: Nigeria and common sense appear to have parted ways.

Go and read my opinions on that ACT 2 thread. But let me ask, Were common sense and Nigerians at par when Obasanjo built the three practically dead refineries we have now? Where was common sense when IBB built Third Mainland Bridge? How about when IBB and Abacha both built Abuja?

I say despite the lack of the common sense, despite the chop and clean mouth corruption that exists in Nigeria, similar projects have been completed in the past.

Now today, Soja wey go NDA don commot for road, Our president has a Ph.D, CBN governor, Bsc.Economics and Masters (in Sharia..:D) Ph.D Harvard trained finance and commanding Minister. Oxford trained trade and investment minister...and we can no longer build these type of projects? Wayo Allah.

How could common sense have been common during the military era and no longer common in the civilian era. So basically common sense dey hide inside barracks or cantonment...?

tonsoyo
Feb 24, 2012, 03:01 AM
Haba, haba, haba!!!

Say monkey na animal, no mean say na beef.

1. GEJ didn't make a public announcement per se. He came for a PDP internal meeting, saw an outdated document being distributed, and asked that it be withdrawn.

2. GEJ didn't say that the SURE programme has been cancelled. He said the original document was drawn up using the assumption that the removal of the fuel subsidy removal would be absolute and complete. We now have a situation where only 50% of the anticipated subsidy savings can be accessed by Government. Understandably, the SURE-P milestones need to be adjusted.

2015!!!

Defending GEJ is like wearing a grass-flavoured condom in preparation for being sodomised by a bull. I don't even know what the hell that means. :neutral:

Abati, do your job. Or share that salary.

*164 weeks to Election Day*

PapaDee
There was never a SURE-P, it was a deceptive nonsense ab initio, it was diversionary, it was bullcrap, it was absolute bunkum. While the government of Jonathan from one corner of his mouth was telling us about using the savings of fuel subsidy on SURE, his Co-ordinating Minister was telling us that the money used for subsidy was being borrowed from another corner of their mouth.
If you are borrowing to finance a program when you stop it, you stop borrowing, where is the savings for SURE coming from since it was from loans anyway?
On another hand they told the Governors that savings from the subsidy would be distributed pro-ratably to the state Governors based on the amount of fuel consumption in the state, same phantom savings they were supposed to use for SURE-P. This is why many of the Governors that were thinking about how to cope with N18,000.00 minimum wage supported it.

As they were talking about building 3 more refineries under the imaginary program, Atedo Peterside, Jonathan number 1 economic adviser was busy telling the world that the idea of more refineries is stupid, that neighbouring countries would take the advantage, you can read Jonathan lips on that guy.

Bottomline is all the projects listed under SURE-P bunkum are all regular projects that we should have capital budget for, subsidy or no subsidy, it is a pre-existing duty of government to provide jobs, mass transit, good roads etc. Not a favor! If he cant do it he should resign.

What a bunch of clowns...

agensheku
Feb 24, 2012, 04:14 AM
In very simple English, Tonsoyo has broken down the janus-faced approach of GEJ to his SURE programme. I think what this government needs is to import in very large numbers professional hypnotists who would wipe out our collective memories and turn us to zombies so that the GEJ government can do as it pleases!

Day by day, the government abdicates its primary responsibilities to the masses, spends our commonwealth lavishly on seeking personal comfort and could not care less if the Nation grinds to a halt, so long as their comfort zones are not affected!

Imagine if there was no "Occupy Nigeria"! All the atrocities associated with importing fuel could have been covered up and we would have been forced to take it or leave it! Is it not a shame that Nigeria is about the only African country where its well-educated citizens are going to sleep on the lawns of American, British and Canadian embassies to be able to secure a place on the massive queues of citizens running away from their "local hell on earth"?

Nigerians are asking for asylum in so many nations...just to get away from it all! Meanwhile, governments from Local up to the Federal levels are busy like worms on apples, eating voraciously away! God must be very patient indeed, looking on while all these go on.

But then, has it not been said that: "Heaven helps those who help themselves"?

One day, the years of the locusts will come to an abrupt end and the stinkingly-rich looters would be afraid to even be associated with their loot. These daylight robberies can not and must not go on forever.

Enyi
Feb 24, 2012, 08:33 AM
This man is not serious...

One word to describe dat honorable: Socialist.

This is how the constitution gets twisted. The section the man quotes says:



Please note the difference;

The State shall direct its policy towards ensuring...

This is very different from:

The state shall itself directly provide...



Enyi,

You said:


Like the honorable above, it appears you also harbor a Socialist viewpoint / economic ideology and that indeed is very different from a Capitalist, market driven viewpoint / economy.

Also how do you come about categorizing fuel subsidy as as "social responsibility". I think the issue here is we cannot have it all. If we want Free Education, and healthcare, then maybe our Fuel cannot be "free".

I bought fuel here in the US yesterday at $3.63 at today exchange rate that is N577.75 please note that is per gallon. But the point is last week, I bought it at $3.57! So the price fluctuates daily. But I Nigeria for the last how many years fuel has remained at N65 per liter. And the US ALSO produces and refines crude oil locally...

Anyhow let me not start that argument again. Suffice to say indeed, it comes down to a difference in ideology. My point is that we again missed a window to get some tangible and lasting benefits from the FG in favor of short time gain.

Why does the American government subsidize farmers? Why does it not withdraw this subsidy and let Capitalist idealogy take over. Governments have social responsibilities to their citizens. The target may differ. In any case, why must we use America as a standard? As far as I know, the price of fuel in the Gulf countries has remained stable over the years. Prices in US may fluctuate because US imports a large percentage of the fuel it refines.
Furthermore, you state inter alia:
If we want Free Education, and healthcare, then maybe our Fuel cannot be "free".

This may not necessarily be correct. Provide evidence to support this assertion. I know of countries where all the three apply (that is I am assuming that by free fuel you mean low cost fuel). Nigeria's problem is compounded by the following:
1) A government that thrives on profligacy and spends an obscene amount on the comfort of the Presidency and NASS. Tell me how many countries have sold the official residencies of Speaker, President of the Senate, VP's guest houses to cronies and embarks on building new ones? In the US, that you have mentioned, do Public Officers use official vehicles, fueled by the government, for personal business?
2) We do not even know how much oil we produce. The Petroleum Minister recently gave a figure on the percentage of stolen crude oil. I suspect that the true percentage is probably higher.
3) A deliberate attempt to ruin the refineries so as to justify importation of petrol. BTW, how many oil producing countries import refined petroleum products?
We should first put our house in order before attempting any structural adjustment.

Enyi
Feb 24, 2012, 08:43 AM
MJ,

In Nigeria I am willing to bet if the fuel had been allowed to be completely deregulated, there would have been short term pain, and long term gain. There would have eventually been MORE people that need not earn that minimum wage of N18,000, but would be gainful employed earning a salary at par with their living expenses.

This is a speculation that cannot be proved. One thing is sure. When complete deregulation occurs and government continues with its profligacy unabated, prices of goods and services will far outstrip salaries in the public sector. The end result- civil servants will feel justified to increase the level of corruption.

agensheku
Feb 24, 2012, 11:58 AM
This is a speculation that cannot be proved. One thing is sure. When complete deregulation occurs and government continues with its profligacy unabated, prices of goods and services will far outstrip salaries in the public sector. The end result- civil servants will feel justified to increase the level of corruption. Its therefore only fair for them to liberalize corruption so that as a matter of right, even those not on salaries should be able to "Get Theirs" sans any hassles!

That way, everyone would be happy, right?!

Enyi
Feb 24, 2012, 12:21 PM
Its therefore only fair for them to liberalize corruption so that as a matter of right, even those not on salaries should be able to "Get Theirs" sans any hassles!

That way, everyone would be happy, right?!

Many years ago, I had advocated that corruption should be liberalized, or as we say now, deregulated. At least, everybody will know what to expect. This will be much better than the present selective fight which is nothing but a farce.

Nigeria on my mind
Feb 24, 2012, 01:39 PM
Go and read my opinions on that ACT 2 thread. But let me ask, Were common sense and Nigerians at par when Obasanjo built the three practically dead refineries we have now? Where was common sense when IBB built Third Mainland Bridge? How about when IBB and Abacha both built Abuja?

I say despite the lack of the common sense, despite the chop and clean mouth corruption that exists in Nigeria, similar projects have been completed in the past.

Now today, Soja wey go NDA don commot for road, Our president has a Ph.D, CBN governor, Bsc.Economics and Masters (in Sharia..:D) Ph.D Harvard trained finance and commanding Minister. Oxford trained trade and investment minister...and we can no longer build these type of projects? Wayo Allah.

How could common sense have been common during the military era and no longer common in the civilian era. So basically common sense dey hide inside barracks or cantonment...?


Next time I want to argue in favor of a military dictatorship, I will reproduce those statements you made above. All four paragraphs argued more convincingly for military rule than the arguments many proponents of military rule have made in its favor.

Yes, common sense did abound during military regimes because Africans by nature thrive under the leadership of strongmen. Contrary to the assertion by Barack Obama who knows nothing about Africans (and considering the contempt with which he treats us, apparently doesn't want to know nothing about us), Africans fare better with industrious strongmen whose leadership inevitably procure the strong institutions Obama believes Africans direly need.

Can you compare Benin and Ibadan, in the days when the traditional rulers of those regions enjoyed greater prominence, to their near destitute conditions today? Africans value children, family, ancestral ties and strong leaders. Na so we be. There is no point fighting that which nests deep within your DNA.



Why does the American government subsidize farmers? Why does it not withdraw this subsidy and let Capitalist idealogy take over. Governments have social responsibilities to their citizens.


You can also add China and Dubai. Those two countries are so heavily subsidized that they should be called "peoples subsidized republic of Dubai and China". These countries put their citizens' welfare and their competitive advantage before all other considerations. We appear to have revoked the subsidy out of a need to apply theoretically compelling macro economic prescriptions without blending these prescriptions with our unique character and expectations as a people. It doesn't help when some prominent villagers here argue so empirically in favor of subsidy removal. Their arguments restrained my opposition for a long time, but I have now seen the light. There will never be long term gain. Rather, what we'll witness will be short term pain, medium term pain and long term pain.

Nigeria needs subsidies. In fact, a country like Nigeiria, where nothing works, could very well self-destruct without them.

agensheku
Feb 24, 2012, 01:45 PM
Any thieving government that tries to remove 100% subsidy on fuel will get crushed by People s Power. It may look impossible for now, but let them not tempt fate.

papadonkee
Feb 24, 2012, 02:35 PM
Any thieving government that tries to remove 100% subsidy on fuel will get crushed by People s Power. It may look impossible for now, but let them not tempt fate.

I agree. But to get around Citizen Activism and the crushing Power of The People, all you need to do is increase fuel (or any other commodity) price by 100%, then reluctantly climb down to a 'more acceptable' rate. :wink:

And rinse and repeat. and rinse. and repeat.

2015!!!

Citizen Activists are so gullible, aren't they? This Ass can't wait to rule their gullible arses.

Ajibs
Feb 25, 2012, 11:47 PM
Why does the American government subsidize farmers? Why does it not withdraw this subsidy and let Capitalist idealogy take over. Governments have social responsibilities to their citizens. The target may differ. In any case, why must we use America as a standard?

Enyi,
The American government indeed and I agree have mentioned subsidizes a number of items. BUT you should also recognize that even in the US these subsidies are also questioned and a frequently causes of political party battles. American farmers where subsidized a long time ago when a boost in agricultural production was needed. That was years and year ago, possibly all the way to the depression era. What then happened is every time a government or Congress member moved for the subsidy to end, of course the industry lobbied and got the removal shelved.

More recently, farmers maintained their subsidy for the production of corn to produce Ethanol as an alternative to imported fuel. And even now some in congress are again calling for it to end. Likewise with the tax breaks the oil companies get, they are also getting a form of subsidy, which again some in congress and the Obama government want to close down.


As far as I know, the price of fuel in the Gulf countries has remained stable over the years. Prices in US may fluctuate because US imports a large percentage of the fuel it refines.

As a quick response to this, go and check the population of the Gulf countries that are soaked in crude oil and compare that population to that if Nigeria and the USA. You might see you answer to that question there. In addition, Current fuel price in Nigeria is $0.61 at N97. Cost in Iran is $0.65 and UAE is $0.49. Then of course other gulf states and a country like Venezuela heavily subsidize their fuel so they are down at $0.20. Togo beside us sells fuel at $1.22.


Furthermore, you state inter alia:
If we want Free Education, and healthcare, then maybe our Fuel cannot be "free".

This may not necessarily be correct. Provide evidence to support this assertion. I know of countries where all the three apply (that is I am assuming that by free fuel you mean low cost fuel).

You noted I then discussed Socialist Vs Capitalist governments of course there are several countries where all are free, especially in the oil producing Gulf states, but you can see that is not utopia. BUT I am not sure you can give me a country with a booming economy that is not grappling with the issue and how to REDUCE subsidies. Google fuel / gas in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and even Brazil (these are progressing countries I am sure you will agree) and see what you find as regards in particular fuel subsidies.


Nigeria's problem is compounded by the following:

1) A government that thrives on profligacy and spends an obscene amount on the comfort of the Presidency and NASS. Tell me how many countries have sold the official residencies of Speaker, President of the Senate, VP's guest houses to cronies and embarks on building new ones? In the US, that you have mentioned, do Public Officers use official vehicles, fueled by the government, for personal business?

I know we like to present this argument. On the surface this makes for a good argument. But I believe if you actually examine the real numbers (not including chop chop money) you are likely to find that the main culprit is the salaries and entitlements paid to the Nigerian National Congress. AND the huge size of government at the federal and state levels.

I know we are so mad about the budget for food for the president and vice president, but the fact is they are just two people, add their salary, entitlements, food allowance budget et al. (for two people or offices) and compare that to the salaries, allowances et al of Nigeria's two national assembly chambers that add up to 469 people. I was going to do the math, but the figures just scared me away. So look at the info go to the link do the math and cry...



TABLE 4.1: REVIEWED ALLOWANCES (SENATE PRESIDENT AND DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE)

TYPE OF ALLOWANCE New Package


Accommodation To be Provided
Furniture To be Provided
Motor Vehicle Loan To be Provided
Motor Vehicle Fuelling/Maintenance To be Provided
Medical To be Provided
Special Assistant To be Provided
Personal Assistant To be Provided
Duty Tour Allowance N32,000
Estacode $1,200/$790
Domestic Staff To be Provided
Entertainment To be Provided
Utilities To be Provided
Security To be Provided
Recess Allowance 10%
Robe Allowance* To be Provided
Newspaper/Periodicals To be Provided
Responsibility Allowance NA -
House Maintenance To be Provided
Legislative Aides To be Provided
Constituency Allowance 125%
Special Adviser** 3
Chief of Staff*** 1 TBP
Severance Gratuity 300%


Source: RMAFC 2009




Now you want to see their percentage of those allowances above:


TABLE 4.2: REVIEWED ALLOWANCES (SENATORS)

TYPE OF ALLOWANCE New Package


Accommodation 150%
Furniture 150%
Motor Vehicle Loan 250%
Motor Vehicle Fuelling/Maintenance 50%
Medical TBP
Special Assistant TBP
Personal Assistant 25%
Duty Tour Allowance N23,000
Estacode $600
Domestic Staff 50%
Entertainment 0%
Utilities 25%
Security TBP
Recess Allowance 10%
Robe Allowance NA
Newspaper/Periodicals 10%
Legislative Aides TBP
House Maintenance NA
Responsibility Allowance* 5%/5%
Constituency Allowance 125%
Severance Gratuity 300%



Source: RMAFC 2009 (http://rmafc.gov.ng/)


Keep in mine those percentages about are a percentage of their basic salary. Do you see the daylight robbery and waste? You get 2.5 times your base salary to buy a car, EVERY YEAR. Also keep in mind the President, his deputy and his 72 cabinet minsters and advisers are not up to half the size of the senate. And do not get all those allowances. And we do not know how much additional money has been budgeted to their OFFICES for the same things given to the presidency like food and beverages et al.




3) A deliberate attempt to ruin the refineries so as to justify importation of petrol. BTW, how many oil producing countries import refined petroleum products?

Enyi,

I hate to tell you this in case you missed it, but those refineries were ruined long long before GEJ came along. They were even ruiend before Obasanjo's second coming, in fact they were ruined a LONG TIME AGO probably somewhere during IBB's or Abacha's era. I have written a bit about that in the village, when such facilities are not regularly maintained, they go down and continue to go down. Now why it is costing so much money is they basically have to be re built to get anywhere close to their full capacity. THIS is why new ones need to be built.

From NNPC's website you find:


What are the factors that hamper PHRC smooth operation?

Mainly, aged parts, infrequent TAM and activities of the militants.

forget militants dat nah wayo talk. Look at how old our facilities are:

Kaduna built 1980 = 32 years old; Obasanjo / Shagari era
P. Harcourt 1 built 1965 = 47 years old; Tafawa Balewa / Zik era
P. Harcourt 2 built 1989 = 23 years old; Babangida era
Warri built 1978 = 24 years old; Obasanjo era

You see my point that Nigerians built what we have today? And they did not have two heads...

If you have a 47 year old car or even a 23 year old car and you have not replaced the engine oil regularly, talk less of the timing chain and maybe engine itself, when it was due, as say the 30,000 / 60,000 / 90,000 mile points. How do you expect the engine of the car not to knock? And even if / when you eventually fix it, after it has knocked, how long will it last?

Now coming back to Nigeria. I hate to say this, BUT if you want ot be really honest about the Nigerian fuel subsidy situation, you should be able to agree that Sanusi Lamido Sanusi made sense when he said we are then subsidizing the wrong people. The House of reps hearings should have nobody in doubt that the subsidy as it is currently being handles is wrong and no productive for the country. That situation needs to be corrected.

At the same forum, Ben Bruce also had a great suggestion, which to an extent Nasir El-Rufai echoed in our podcast. Ben Murray Bruce asked the FG to create two cash funds (about 500 million Naira each) that would disburse cash subsidy directly to Nigerians in their pockets AFTER the subsidy was removed so that the people could afford the higher fuel prices. In this situation, the everyday Nigerian would benefit directly from a subsidy as they would see that money in their pay checks monthly. Rather than have an exalted few enjoy the largess as we saw via the HOR hearings.

So aside from the subsidy being a bad idea how we handle it in Nigeria makes a bad situation even worse.

Kemet
Feb 26, 2012, 03:20 AM
Apparently, some cry-babies cannot take the medicines but they need the cure.

agensheku
Feb 26, 2012, 06:50 AM
Fuel Scarcity Is To Blackmail Nigerians, Says NLC
Posted: February 26, 2012

By Owei Lakemfa


The current artificial fuel scarcity in parts of the country is to blackmail Nigerians into accepting higher fuel prices and pressure the National Assembly (NASS) to discontinue the probe into the wholesale fraud in the oil industry. The contrived scarcity is an unholy alliance between major oil marketers and various government agencies.

The claim by the Major Oil Marketers Association of Nigeria and the Independent Petroleum Marketers of Nigeria that the patriotic probe into the corruption-ridden oil sector by the NASS has created "uncertainties" and loss of confidence by the financial institutions which has translated into fuel scarcity is ridiculous. Banks cannot be scared to work with honest businesses as the marketers are claiming, and the country cannot be blackmailed to allow fraudsters continue to dominate the oil sector.

It is unacceptable to the NLC that marketers and the Government will contrive to push the price of a litre of petrol (PMS) back to N140 under the guise of fuel scarcity. We also assure the National Assembly that Nigerians are solidly behind its probe into the age long theft of our oil wealth and the fleecing of the country through the inflation of the subsidy on fuel. The future of our country lies in our ability, determination and the political will to tackle the endemic corruption that has become cancerous and is threatening our very existence.

It is ironic that the very people who contributed to the present state of affairs in the oil industry are those claiming to be sanitizing it by setting up a plethora of committees allegedly to cleanse the industry. These committees, which are mainly political patronage, are creating a new bureaucracy in Government and driving up the cost of governance contrary to President Goodluck Jonathan's January 16, 2012 pledge to the country that the cost of governance will be reduced.

The NLC again reiterates that the Jonathan administration has no alternative but to live up to its promise that Nigerians will richly reap the dividends of the fuel price hike. The claims by some government officials that the mass protests organised by Labour and it's allies which led to the reduction of a litre of PMS from N140 to N97 has made the fulfillment of the promise impossible is childish. it is like a dull, in attentive pupil blaming the teacher for his failure. Nigerians are not interested in excuses; they demand and deserve good governance and the dividends of democracy.

Owei Lakemfa
NLC Acting General Secretary.
Sunday 26th February 2012

SOURCE:www.saharareporters.com

Nigeria on my mind
Feb 26, 2012, 08:35 AM
I'd like to know the time estimate for the short term pain we've heard so much of concerning the fuel subsidy. How long? One year? Two years? One year, three days and twelve hours? Can we pencil a specific day or a specific period when the long term gains will kick in? Will it be on the first day of March, next year? Will it be at the beginning of the next harmattan season?

Subsidy removal will subject Nigeria to one long harmattan season. That's what I say.

tonsoyo
Feb 26, 2012, 10:41 AM
N.A.R.
All you wrote up there get as e be...lot of the facts do not support your assertions. I will just like to correct you that America does not subsidize SOME items, EVERY aspect of the American life is subsidized. The only thing is that some are general subsidy, while there are rules for qualification for some. Even oil is heavily subsidized in America. The same for the rest of the civilized world. Government is missing totally in the Nigerian lives. It does not exist, governance is brigandage in Nigeria.

They offer you no security, infrastructure, food, clothing nor shelter. They blame their crass irresponsibility on the phantom fuel subsidy. "Fuel subsidy" is Grinch, it stole Xmas.

The report posted by Agens above is factual, I saw it coming. The task masters have created artificial scarcity to make Nigerians beg for an increase. Useless bunch of rogues they are!

Enyi
Feb 26, 2012, 10:48 AM
Enyi,
The American government indeed and I agree have mentioned subsidizes a number of items. BUT you should also recognize that even in the US these subsidies are also questioned and a frequently causes of political party battles. American farmers where subsidized a long time ago when a boost in agricultural production was needed. That was years and year ago, possibly all the way to the depression era. What then happened is every time a government or Congress member moved for the subsidy to end, of course the industry lobbied and got the removal shelved.

More recently, farmers maintained their subsidy for the production of corn to produce Ethanol as an alternative to imported fuel. And even now some in congress are again calling for it to end. Likewise with the tax breaks the oil companies get, they are also getting a form of subsidy, which again some in congress and the Obama government want to close down.



As a quick response to this, go and check the population of the Gulf countries that are soaked in crude oil and compare that population to that if Nigeria and the USA. You might see you answer to that question there. In addition, Current fuel price in Nigeria is $0.61 at N97. Cost in Iran is $0.65 and UAE is $0.49. Then of course other gulf states and a country like Venezuela heavily subsidize their fuel so they are down at $0.20. Togo beside us sells fuel at $1.22.



You noted I then discussed Socialist Vs Capitalist governments of course there are several countries where all are free, especially in the oil producing Gulf states, but you can see that is not utopia. BUT I am not sure you can give me a country with a booming economy that is not grappling with the issue and how to REDUCE subsidies. Google fuel / gas in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and even Brazil (these are progressing countries I am sure you will agree) and see what you find as regards in particular fuel subsidies.



I know we like to present this argument. On the surface this makes for a good argument. But I believe if you actually examine the real numbers (not including chop chop money) you are likely to find that the main culprit is the salaries and entitlements paid to the Nigerian National Congress. AND the huge size of government at the federal and state levels.

I know we are so mad about the budget for food for the president and vice president, but the fact is they are just two people, add their salary, entitlements, food allowance budget et al. (for two people or offices) and compare that to the salaries, allowances et al of Nigeria's two national assembly chambers that add up to 469 people. I was going to do the math, but the figures just scared me away. So look at the info go to the link do the math and cry...





Now you want to see their percentage of those allowances above:



Keep in mine those percentages about are a percentage of their basic salary. Do you see the daylight robbery and waste? You get 2.5 times your base salary to buy a car, EVERY YEAR. Also keep in mind the President, his deputy and his 72 cabinet minsters and advisers are not up to half the size of the senate. And do not get all those allowances. And we do not know how much additional money has been budgeted to their OFFICES for the same things given to the presidency like food and beverages et al.





Enyi,

I hate to tell you this in case you missed it, but those refineries were ruined long long before GEJ came along. They were even ruiend before Obasanjo's second coming, in fact they were ruined a LONG TIME AGO probably somewhere during IBB's or Abacha's era. I have written a bit about that in the village, when such facilities are not regularly maintained, they go down and continue to go down. Now why it is costing so much money is they basically have to be re built to get anywhere close to their full capacity. THIS is why new ones need to be built.

From NNPC's website you find:



forget militants dat nah wayo talk. Look at how old our facilities are:

Kaduna built 1980 = 32 years old; Obasanjo / Shagari era
P. Harcourt 1 built 1965 = 47 years old; Tafawa Balewa / Zik era
P. Harcourt 2 built 1989 = 23 years old; Babangida era
Warri built 1978 = 24 years old; Obasanjo era

You see my point that Nigerians built what we have today? And they did not have two heads...

If you have a 47 year old car or even a 23 year old car and you have not replaced the engine oil regularly, talk less of the timing chain and maybe engine itself, when it was due, as say the 30,000 / 60,000 / 90,000 mile points. How do you expect the engine of the car not to knock? And even if / when you eventually fix it, after it has knocked, how long will it last?

Now coming back to Nigeria. I hate to say this, BUT if you want ot be really honest about the Nigerian fuel subsidy situation, you should be able to agree that Sanusi Lamido Sanusi made sense when he said we are then subsidizing the wrong people. The House of reps hearings should have nobody in doubt that the subsidy as it is currently being handles is wrong and no productive for the country. That situation needs to be corrected.

At the same forum, Ben Bruce also had a great suggestion, which to an extent Nasir El-Rufai echoed in our podcast. Ben Murray Bruce asked the FG to create two cash funds (about 500 million Naira each) that would disburse cash subsidy directly to Nigerians in their pockets AFTER the subsidy was removed so that the people could afford the higher fuel prices. In this situation, the everyday Nigerian would benefit directly from a subsidy as they would see that money in their pay checks monthly. Rather than have an exalted few enjoy the largess as we saw via the HOR hearings.

So aside from the subsidy being a bad idea how we handle it in Nigeria makes a bad situation even worse.

It seems you are finding excuses for US to maintain subsidy while asking African countries not to have any form of subsidy at all. Well, what defence do you also have for Western Europe? The bottom line is that despite all the political grandstanding every American and Western European government knows how far it can go.
Secondly, I do not think that comparison of raw fuel costs in different parts of the world serves any purpose. The costs must be looked at from the point of view of affordability. It must not be excluded from the general cost of living in those countries. For example, when you compare Nigeria with Iran, you should also tell us the cost of living in both countries. I do not think it is proper to compare the cost of petrol in Togo with that in Nigeria for the simple reason that Togo is not a major oil producing country. This also holds with reference to your statements on Malaysia, etc. etc. Let's have a common basis for comparison. Compare oil producing countries as a group and non-oil producing countries as a different group. I agree with you that the countries you have mentioned have progressed more than Nigeria. The question we should ask ourselves is why? Is it not amazing that Nigeria taught Malaysia how to grow palm trees and now imports palm oil from Malaysia? BTW, I mentioned the stability of the petrol costs in the Gulf in response to your statement that price of petrol fluctuates in US. The point is that since US imports most of its crude oil, the price of refined products will be subjected to the vagaries in the oil market. The Gulf countries refine the oil they produce for domestic consumption. Consequently, they are not drastically affected by the instability in the oil market.
My position on the need for the government to reduce its obscene profligacy is resolute and fixed. The nation can no longer have a situation where we are asked to tighten our belts, while the waists of the leaders have grown so much that they can no longer wear belts. No, it must be first things first. The issue of subsidy should be raised only after the waste has been reduced to a manageable minimum. Mark you' it is not only the Presidency, Governors and NASS that are players in this game. Why should government officials use official cars for their private business. Does this happen in US?

I am not very much interested in why our refineries are not working. If anything, we must give kudos to the Military Head of State- Obasanjo for the positive role he played in the development of refineries. Unfortunately, he did not duplicate that as a civilian president. IBB did nothing positive for the refineries.
Back to my point! The refineries have been sabotaged. We all agree on this. What is the way forward? Punish the masses that played little or no role in the sabotage? I do not completely agree with Sanusi. He might be right that money is being paid to the wrong people. The question is- why was it paid in the first instance? Then next question- what is the government doing about this, other than punishing the masses? I am glad that you are in US. You obviously are more familiar than I with how the US government deals with crooks. Do we have such a political will? Are you aware that contrary to what Ngozi has dished out to the public, the use of petroleum products cuts across all segments of the society- barbers, hair-dressers, farmers, etc. etc? Perhaps our leaders who wear tinted glasses and are driven about in vehicles with heavily tinted windows are not able to see the suffering of the people and like the Egyptian task masters of old will only increase their burden.
In summary, removal of fuel subsidy now is applying a wrong solution, at a wrong time to a wrong people. People who have bled the nation dry should neither be calling the shots nor be walking free.

agensheku
Feb 26, 2012, 12:25 PM
N.A.R.
All you wrote up there get as e be...lot of the facts do not support your assertions. I will just like to correct you that America does not subsidize SOME items, EVERY aspect of the American life is subsidized. The only thing is that some are general subsidy, while there are rules for qualification for some. Even oil is heavily subsidized in America. The same for the rest of the civilized world. Government is missing totally in the Nigerian lives. It does not exist, governance is brigandage in Nigeria.

They offer you no security, infrastructure, food, clothing nor shelter. They blame their crass irresponsibility on the phantom fuel subsidy. "Fuel subsidy" is Grinch, it stole Xmas.

The report posted by Agens above is factual, I saw it coming. The task masters have created artificial scarcity to make Nigerians beg for an increase. Useless bunch of rogues they are!

Tons,

Thanks a million! NAR is just seeing what he wishes to say. Facts dont mean much to him again on matters involving GEJ, which is surprising. We all saw the scandalous revelations at the House of Reps probe on fuel subsidy. Now, here is the very latest...


Pressure on Tambuwal, Lawan to dilute report
By Yusuf Alli, Managing Editor, Northern Operation
http://www.thenationonlineng.net/2011/thumbnail.php?file=farouk_lawan_201849344.jpg&size=article_medium
Chairman of the Ad-hoc committee, Alhaji Farouk Lawan


N1.3 TRILLION FUEL SUBSIDY PROBE - Top presidency officials seek soft-landing for those indicted - Speaker: Let committee submit report before next step

Top Presidency officials are uncomfortable with the House of Representatives probe of the controversial N1.3trillion oil subsidy.

They fear the report of the probe could damage the government. As a result of this, machinery has been put in motion to limit any such damage, sources say.

The first step, is mounting of pressure on Speaker Aminu Tambuwal and the chairman of the Ad-hoc committee, Alhaji Farouk Lawan by Presidency officials to water down the committee's report or dump it altogether in the "national interest".
( See how they mix looter s interest with National interest? Agens)
The other is to give government officials that may be indicted in the report a soft landing.

It was learnt that certain top presidency officials and lobbyists acting on behalf of major stakeholders in the oil industry met separately with Lawan and told him why the report of the committee should be softened in order not to "embarrass some government officials."

They allegedly expressed concern over the likely backlash of the report from foreign investors in the oil sector.

Some of the lobbyists were even said to have subtly threatened that Farouk Lawan might not get the governorship ticket of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Kano State in 2015 should the panel report hurt the government.

It was however learnt that Lawan insisted on doing what is right in the interest of the country.

A reliable source, who spoke in strict confidence, said: "Ahead of the outcome of the report of Lawan's committee, some government officials have been lobbying the panel to soften its report in the national interest. But none of them could define this interest.

"In fact, some of these officials pleaded against the release of a damning report that could have an adverse effect on the oil sector.

"Some expressed fears that the report could bring down the government of the day in the light of the exposé on some functionaries.

"At a point, some said the report could make or mar the 2015 governorship ambition of Lawan and they advised him to have a rethink because of his political future that he is so passionate about.

"But Lawan told one of the emissaries that he will prefer to put the nation above any other selfish interest.

"These lobbyists are however unrelenting in trying to influence the outcome of the report."

Investigation also confirmed that the same forces attempted to prevail on the Speaker of the House, Alhaji Aminu Tambuwal to intervene by convincing the probe panel to 'circumvent' its report.

Another source said: "The Speaker asked the lobbyists to let the committee submit its report before the nation thinks of the next step.

"Tambuwal said he cannot prejudge the outcome of the panel."

Contacted, the chairman of the House Committee on Media and Public Affairs, Hon. Zakari Mohammed confirmed the pressure on the House to dump the report of the committee.

Mohammed said: "The House is under intense pressures from different quarters on the report. However the House is focused, it will not abandon the probe midway.

"We would be fair but whoever is indicted will be made known to the public. It is then left to the government to determine what to do with the report.

"Oil is Nigeria's mainstay and anybody who is stealing this oil is committing a serious economic crime."The chairman of the Senate ad-hoc committee looking into fuel subsidy regime, Senator Magnus Abe, recently released the list of the affected 38 companies.

The firms and the amount of money they received last year alone are: Oando Nigeria Plc, N228.506billion; Integrated Oil and Gas Plc, N30billion; MRS, 224.818 billion; A.A. Rano, N1.14 billion; A-Z Petroleum, N18.61 billion; A.S.B, N3.16 billion; Arcon Plc, N24.116 billion; African Petroleum, N104.58 billion; Aminu Resources, N2.3 billion; Capital Oil, N22.4 billion; Con Oil, N37.96 billion; Avante Guard, N1.14 billion; Avido, N3.64 billion; Boffas and Company, N3.67 billion; and Brilla Energy, N960.3 million.

Others are: D. Jones Petroleum, N14.86 billion; Downstream Energy, N789.648 million; Dosil Oil and Gas, N3.375 billion; Inco ray, N1.988 billion; Eternal, N5.574 billion; Folawiyo Energy, N113.32 billion; Frado International, N2.63 billion; First Deepwater Oil, N257.396 million; Heden Petrol, N693 million; Honeywell Petrol, N12.2 billion; AMP, N11.417 billion; Ascon, N5.271 billion; Channel Oil, N1.308 billion; Fort Oil, N8.582 billion; Enak Oil & Gas, N19.684 billion; Bovas & Co. Nig Ltd, N5.685billion; and Obat Oil N85billion.

Abe also named AP, N104.5billion; IPMAN Investment Limited, N10.9billion; ACON, N24.1billion; Atio Oil, N64.4billion; AMP, N11.4billion; and Emac Oil, N19.2billion.

In 2006, only MRS, Total and Oando were listed as beneficiaries of the fuel subsidy recognized by the Federal Government.

The three companies were said to have been listed as "major marketers."

But in 2007, AP and Mobil joined and were listed under the category of majors.

The same year, NIPCO was introduced and listed under the category of petrol depot owners.

A new category of "independents" included some marketers who had no depots.

AITEO Energy Resources and Triquest Energy were added in 2007, bringing the total to eight beneficiaries of the fuel subsidy.

The list of subsidy beneficiaries increased sharply in 2008 to 23, made up of six majors.

In 2008, Conoil joined, and NIPCO was joined by Capital Oil and Folawiyo Energy, under the category of depot owners.

The list of "independents" also increased from two in 2007 to 14 in 2008 as AITEO and Triquest were said to have been joined by Triquest Oil services, IMAD Oil & Gas, Integrated Oil and Gas, Rahamaniyya, AMG Petro Energy, Brittania, ACORN, A-Z Petroleum, SHIELD Petroleum and MAJOPE Investment Limited.

And in 2010, the beneficiaries of the subsidy payment under the category of major marketers remained six, the depot owners remained two, but the list of independent marketers went up to 28 with the inclusion of many relatively unknown companies.

SOURCE: THE NATION newspaper

NOTE: They can only fool some people some of the time. They can not fool the whole Nation forever. And here are some valid questions for Mrs Okonjo-Iweala. Why did she persuade Obj to settle Nigeria s outstanding debts then and now she is the same person urging GEJ to plunge the nation into permanent indebtedness! Haba! Agens

Mikky jaga
Feb 27, 2012, 01:33 PM
And here are some valid questions for Mrs Okonjo-Iweala. Why did she persuade Obj to settle Nigeria s outstanding debts then and now she is the same person urging GEJ to plunge the nation into permanent indebtedness! Haba! Agens

Mrs Okonjo Iweala is just like any other Nigerian hustling for her share of the National cake. If it increases her credit rating with her World Bank Masters for Nigeria to pay back dubious debt, so let it be. And when they change the tune and say Nigeria must incur more devilish debts, nothing spoil as long as her masters are well pleased.

Ajibs
Feb 27, 2012, 11:20 PM
N.A.R.
All you wrote up there get as e be...lot of the facts do not support your assertions. I will just like to correct you that America does not subsidize SOME items, EVERY aspect of the American life is subsidized. The only thing is that some are general subsidy, while there are rules for qualification for some. Even oil is heavily subsidized in America. The same for the rest of the civilized world. Government is missing totally in the Nigerian lives. It does not exist, governance is brigandage in Nigeria.

They offer you no security, infrastructure, food, clothing nor shelter. They blame their crass irresponsibility on the phantom fuel subsidy. "Fuel subsidy" is Grinch, it stole Xmas.

The report posted by Agens above is factual, I saw it coming. The task masters have created artificial scarcity to make Nigerians beg for an increase. Useless bunch of rogues they are!

Tonsoyo,
Referring to the statement in bold, all the more reason why I want the government to get out of the oil industry.

I see your point, but recall I noted in the US we call it various names. Some industries are directly subsidized, others are given "tax breaks" others are given "tax incentives" and many are given "grants" But most are for a specific duration in time. And the big difference between Nigeria and the US is here government owes very little. It retains a role mostly to regulate the various sectors.

Another argument that I had made on this in the past, you repeat above. Government remains a monopoly in these industries in Nigeria and does a TERRIBLY bad job of making them work.

Agensheku says I am too faithful to GEJ. But I wish he could ALSO be honest enough to accept the fact that the state of the Nigerian oil industry today predates GEJ's government. While he might take the blame for making a bad situation worse, he is not the author of the blame. Let me ask this, IF the government coffers were not so empty why will this man be almost killing himself to make government more money?

However, the issue of subsidy takes away from the issue we need to face sooner or later. And this is the issue of WHY do we need to import refined petroleum products? The US imports as it consumes more that it produces that is simple (Though I suspect it imports for other "national security" reasons as well).

Nigeria can refine all the local product it needs if the facilities have been provided locally. How can we have built our last refinery in 1989?? But yet they are telling us our population has grown from was it not 88 million to now 150 million? (the population sef nah lie...)

Also why do you not want the government to get out of the business of oil? I said it before and I say it again, it is due to the HUGE resources at the disposal of the government that promotes the corruption. Look at the report in Ibori, the report says that many budgets for Nigerian states are larger that the budgets of other African countries!!!! And what do we have to show for it? Ziltch.

Lets get government out of as many industries and see what happens. That is ALSO not a perfect situation, but we have a few recent examples of sectors that have improved when the government got out: Mobile telecommunications and Air travel. Now even when some airlines go burst like Okada Air and ADC did, others are springing up to replace them. Have you missed Nigeria Airways? Even in the US, airlines are going burst. Where is Pan Am? or TWA? British Caledonian?

And also people might not realize it even in the television and radio business. Do you remember those days when the only thing you could watch in Nigeria was your local NTA channel and government propaganda? Or when you could only listen to Radio Nigeria, BBC and VOA and VON? And how we all rejoiced when Dokpesi was given the first private licence for Raypower FM? When we had only government owed and run Newspapers?

Compare then to how many information outlets we have in Nigeria today. If we could do this for less important sectors and see them flourish despite the "Naija factor" why can't we do the same for the oil industry?

Let government get out of the oil business and simply focus on regulating the industry. Everything else nah story.

Obugi
Feb 27, 2012, 11:30 PM
People,

There is nowhere in the world where govt officials are not corrupt. The major problem in Nigeria is that govt regulation and control provide too many opportunities for corruption AND ethnic considerations exacerbate corruption and subvert the will to combat it.

Just as an example, there were some major cases of officials in the US minerals management agency (?) In the US taking bribes to give cheap mining rights to to major oil companies on govt owned land. By definition such a thing wouldn't arise on privately owned lands and the oil wells located on them.

Compare that situation to Nigeria where ALL oil wells and ALL land is owned by the Fed Govt.

Our problems have easy solutions, it's just that too many Nigerians are determined to get some govt money even if the country will be destroyed thereby. There's also some envy. Like with people who keep mentioning the Aso Rock food budget. I actually think it's very modest. It's problematic for people who want to share govt largesse rather than produce and share their own wealth. Put those same complainers in govt and the will do worse.

We just have to go through this and relearn some hard lessons and also basic economics. Stuff like this...FGN budget < $40billion, Nigeria population >100 million selfish and unproductive subhumans waiting for God to solve their problems.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

agensheku
Feb 28, 2012, 07:01 AM
Fuel subsidy: Jonathan foot-drags on 25% salary cut

Tola Akinmutimi and Rotimi Fadeyi 27/02/2012



It's Accountant-General's job -Presidency

There are strong indications that President Goodluck Jonathan is foot-dragging on the 25 per cent cut in his salary and those of political appointees.

President Jonathan had promised to forfeit part of his basic salary, including those of the Vice-President and members of his cabinet, to augment fuel subsidy savings.

The President made the promise in the heat of the fuel subsidy upheavals.

Investigations by National Mirror showed that the deductions might not have been effected in the January 2012 salaries of the affected appointees. Attempts to confirm whether the 25 per cent was deducted as promised were stalled as some officials in the offices where the deductions could be ascertained refused to volunteer any useful information to our correspondents.

But the Special Adviser to the President on Media and Publicity, Dr. Reuben Abati, told our correspondent on the telephone that it was the Office of the Accountant- General of the Federation that would confirm whether the 25 per cent deduction in the basic salaries of political office holders had been effected or not.

"It is an instruction by the President that should be carried out by the Office of the Accountant-General of the Federation. So, ask the Office of the Accountant- General. When the President issues an instruction, he expects it to be carried out," Abati said.

However, investigations showed that the deductions, if any, should have been effected at the Presidency where there is a distinct payroll system for all employees in the State House.

It may take up to one month after the Accountant- General must have given pay advice before returns are forwarded to his office.

Analysts believed that if there had been deductions at all, the presidential spokesman should have known since he is one of the affected appointees.

So, rather than asking our correspondent to confirm from the AGF, he should have confirmed the deductions in line with his official responsibility.

President Jonathan had on January 7, 2012, in a nationwide broadcast announced measures to curb government expenditures following the removal of the subsidy on Premium Motor Spirit, PMS, otherwise known as petrol.

If the deductions had been made, at least about N4, 482,294.30 would have been deducted from the affected officers' salaries for January 2012.

The President, whose basic yearly salary is N3,514,705 and N292,892 monthly would have forfeited N73,233.02 in the month, while the Vice- President who earns N3,031,572.50 gross basic income per annum and N252,631.04 monthly should also have had N63, 157.76 deducted from his January salary.

Similarly, the ministers, each of whom is on N2, 026,400 yearly basic salary and N168, 866.67 monthly, would have paid N42, 216.67 as deductions.

The total deductions from the about 42 ministers' basic salaries for the month would have been N2,195,266.84, while their ministers of state would have also forfeited N1,773,100.14.

This figures, however, exclude the salaries of special advisers, senior special assistants and other executive aides in the Presidency and the Ministries, Departments and Agencies whose salaries and emoluments are not specifically stated in the Act of 2008 which provides salaries and allowances of "Certain political, public and judicial office holders".

It is, however, learnt that special assistants to the ministers and the ministers of state are on salary grade level 16.

The challenge of arriving at any deductions from the salaries of these appointees, however, is that their number is not officially available.

For instance, while a minister may have four aides, comprising a special adviser and other special assistants, another may have up to six or more.

For instance, investigations by National Mirror showed that the chief executive of one of the parastatals of a ministry in the Presidency has at least four political aides when he assumed office recently. That is the first time political aides are functioning in the parastatal in its over 30 years existence.

SOURCE; NATIONAL MIRROR

NOTE: GEJ may have decided that if he cant withdraw 100% fuel subsidy, why cut his own salaries and those of his team mates. Anyway, at least it has now been decided that they too shall begin to pay taxes from their salaries! Hear! Hear! So, a non-taxpayer eats free meals at our expense all these while! Agens

Mikky jaga
Feb 28, 2012, 11:48 AM
GEJ is permanently stuck in reverse gear. A thousand Abati PhD cannot help him find the way forward.

agensheku
Feb 28, 2012, 12:39 PM
GEJ is permanently stuck in reverse gear. A thousand Abati PhD cannot help him find the way forward.

Since the Abacha years, all our rulers have been crying that they wish to move the nation forward. A radio programme: AUTOMEDICS advises that when your car is stuck in a gear, a scan is the first thing to do to determine the mode of repair or replacement.

But like the typical trailer driver, rather than look for solution, "our drivers" have left the vehicle on the highway, spread their praying mat and wishing for a miracle! When is the vehicle going to reach THE PROMISED LAND?

Ajibs
Feb 28, 2012, 11:28 PM
I am not very much interested in why our refineries are not working. If anything, we must give kudos to the Military Head of State- Obasanjo for the positive role he played in the development of refineries. Unfortunately, he did not duplicate that as a civilian president. IBB did nothing positive for the refineries.
Back to my point! The refineries have been sabotaged. We all agree on this. What is the way forward? Punish the masses that played little or no role in the sabotage? I do not completely agree with Sanusi. He might be right that money is being paid to the wrong people. The question is- why was it paid in the first instance? Then next question- what is the government doing about this, other than punishing the masses? I am glad that you are in US. You obviously are more familiar than I with how the US government deals with crooks. Do we have such a political will? Are you aware that contrary to what Ngozi has dished out to the public, the use of petroleum products cuts across all segments of the society- barbers, hair-dressers, farmers, etc. etc? Perhaps our leaders who wear tinted glasses and are driven about in vehicles with heavily tinted windows are not able to see the suffering of the people and like the Egyptian task masters of old will only increase their burden.

In summary, removal of fuel subsidy now is applying a wrong solution, at a wrong time to a wrong people. People who have bled the nation dry should neither be calling the shots nor be walking free.

Enyi,
Here are my problems with your argument repeating some of my fundamental issues with this:

First, the crux of my argument is again. rather than keep screaming how bad GEJ is and what he has done to the sufrering of the masses, the solution is two fold:

ONE: Get government out of being the major player in the industry, and we should see a significant improvement.

TWO: Figure out how to ENSURE government infrastructural and development promises are kept.

Secondly, If we seem to agree that this SAME various past governments including even if I agree with you, this current GEJ are the ones responsible for the running down and sorry state of the refineries today WHY entrust them to make the necessary repairs to the same facilities? or to build new ones? What is the definition of insanity again...?

Third, If you say you are concerned about the current government increasing the suffering of the masses, you MUST be also concerned about the refineries, and you already validate that relationship. The price of petroleum products are central to the everyday activities of the everyday Nigerian hence there is a direct connection between the refineries and the plight of the everyday Nigeria, you cannot divorce the two.

Fourth, the main issue I argue against is the current STATUS QUO is not working for Nigeria. It appears we agree on that, but we differ on the solution. You, Tonsoyo, Agensheku and others feel the government needs to keep fuel at N65 at all costs. I fundamentally disagree with that. My point is rather than keep fuel at N65 and only a handful of Nigerians benefit, I say let fuel be whatever costs it will be and let the government place the "subsidy" or assistance directly in the pockets of the everyday Nigerian.

Fifth, I will not go into details on this, but petroleum products is not the only fundamental thing to the existence of the everyday Nigeria, the truth is telecommunication can also be considered as important. If the Nigerian population is unable to communicate effectively and efficiently, that can have as big an impact on everyday lives of the Nigerian. Hence if we have been able to deregulate that industry and the government has successfully gotten out of that industry what prevents them from getting out oil.

Sixth, I repeat again, the following industries have been "deregulated" or the government is no longer a monopoly in them: telecommunications, Radio and Television, the Airline industry and partially in tertiary education. All of these have resulted in more options for Nigerians and in many cases better services for all Nigerians.

Seventh and finally, I can and will concede, as it occurs in the US, subsidies and still exist within the Nigerian framework, but not the way we have it now. What we have currently is the FG spending stupendous amounts of money for little return in a highly corrupt system. We have a God given product which we are unable to refine locally. This is the crux of this issue is to solve that problem.

I repeat, my solution is to get government out of the industry. What is puzzling is this government WANTS to get out of the industry but you and others are forcing them to stay in it, AND hoping form some miracle that government will actually change overnight.

Ever wonder how / why Obasanjo built two refineries within four-five years and why he could not build just ONE in eight years?

Anything else, I will be repeating myself all over again.

Nigeria on my mind
Feb 28, 2012, 11:44 PM
ONE: Get government out of being the major player in the industry, and we should see a significant improvement.



Government is not involved in yam production, so why can't the average Nigerian afford yam?

Ajibs
Feb 29, 2012, 03:02 PM
Government is not involved in yam production, so why can't the average Nigerian afford yam?

Says who? Care to support the assertion?

Nigerians that eat Iyan and Egusi everyday... or Amala and Gbegiri Soup? or Asaro and beans?

Enyi
Feb 29, 2012, 04:08 PM
Enyi,
Here are my problems with your argument repeating some of my fundamental issues with this:

First, the crux of my argument is again. rather than keep screaming how bad GEJ is and what he has done to the sufrering of the masses, the solution is two fold:

ONE: Get government out of being the major player in the industry, and we should see a significant improvement.

TWO: Figure out how to ENSURE government infrastructural and development promises are kept.

Secondly, If we seem to agree that this SAME various past governments including even if I agree with you, this current GEJ are the ones responsible for the running down and sorry state of the refineries today WHY entrust them to make the necessary repairs to the same facilities? or to build new ones? What is the definition of insanity again...?

Third, If you say you are concerned about the current government increasing the suffering of the masses, you MUST be also concerned about the refineries, and you already validate that relationship. The price of petroleum products are central to the everyday activities of the everyday Nigerian hence there is a direct connection between the refineries and the plight of the everyday Nigeria, you cannot divorce the two.

Fourth, the main issue I argue against is the current STATUS QUO is not working for Nigeria. It appears we agree on that, but we differ on the solution. You, Tonsoyo, Agensheku and others feel the government needs to keep fuel at N65 at all costs. I fundamentally disagree with that. My point is rather than keep fuel at N65 and only a handful of Nigerians benefit, I say let fuel be whatever costs it will be and let the government place the "subsidy" or assistance directly in the pockets of the everyday Nigerian.

Fifth, I will not go into details on this, but petroleum products is not the only fundamental thing to the existence of the everyday Nigeria, the truth is telecommunication can also be considered as important. If the Nigerian population is unable to communicate effectively and efficiently, that can have as big an impact on everyday lives of the Nigerian. Hence if we have been able to deregulate that industry and the government has successfully gotten out of that industry what prevents them from getting out oil.

Sixth, I repeat again, the following industries have been "deregulated" or the government is no longer a monopoly in them: telecommunications, Radio and Television, the Airline industry and partially in tertiary education. All of these have resulted in more options for Nigerians and in many cases better services for all Nigerians.

Seventh and finally, I can and will concede, as it occurs in the US, subsidies and still exist within the Nigerian framework, but not the way we have it now. What we have currently is the FG spending stupendous amounts of money for little return in a highly corrupt system. We have a God given product which we are unable to refine locally. This is the crux of this issue is to solve that problem.

I repeat, my solution is to get government out of the industry. What is puzzling is this government WANTS to get out of the industry but you and others are forcing them to stay in it, AND hoping form some miracle that government will actually change overnight.

Ever wonder how / why Obasanjo built two refineries within four-five years and why he could not build just ONE in eight years?

Anything else, I will be repeating myself all over again.

It seems you are introducing new points into this discussion. Now, where did we discuss whether the government should get out of the industry or not? I thought the issue was whether the government should remove subsidy or not and if it should, when should that be done? As far as I know, and please, correct me if I am wrong, US and Western European governments subsidize agriculture. Are they directly involved in agriculture? This has a bearing on my position that governments have social responsibilities to their citizens. Furthermore, the discussion is not about monopoly. We can tackle this separately.
Let's take the case of Nitel that you mentioned. Did the government suddenly withdraw from the telecommunication sector? As far as I recall, Nitel was still in existence, even after telecommunications was deregulated. I paid 180,000 Naira to get phone line from a private telephone company then. Others who were lucky continued to use Nitel, which was cheaper. This lasted until GSM appeared. NITEL also ran GSM for a while. The same happened with the airlines. The cause of the collapse of public owned companies in Nigeria is a topic for a different thread.
According to you, the FG is "spending stupendous amounts of money for little return in a highly corrupt system". Why does FGN not tackle that corruption? This is a major point of difference between you and me. US and Western European countries have zero tolerance for corruption in the sense that if you are caught you pay for it. In our own case, corrupt individuals not only call the shots but are also awarded national honors. So let's get our priorities right. FGN must demonstrate a political willingness to fight corruption. It is instructive that Farida once suggested that public officers should be subjected to psychiatric examination before they assume office. Yes, we should not continue putting the cart before the horse and expect that it will move.
The following excerpt from your post is simply wrong:

What is puzzling is this government WANTS to get out of the industry but you and others are forcing them to stay in it, AND hoping form some miracle that government will actually change overnight.

We are not forcing the government to stay as you put it. A disorderly retreat by any army will lead to chaos and defeat. Therefore, if the government wants to completely withdraw, it should be done in a proper manner.
First, it must reduce its profligacy. It is immoral to ask the masses to endure more hardship when the politicians and senior public officers display a fairy tale life-style. Why do these individuals spend our stolen wealth in buying up properties in other people's land? There are too many questions that beg for answers.
Secondly, the government must deal with those whom it claims have put us in this mess. To punish the ordinary folks for the sins of others is tantamount to looking for the least line of resistance. You must remember that the easiest solution to a problem is not necessarily the best solution. We should avoid creating a bigger problem by applying a shoddy solution to another problem.

agensheku
Feb 29, 2012, 04:48 PM
Says who? Care to support the assertion?

Nigerians that eat Iyan and Egusi everyday... or Amala and Gbegiri Soup? or Asaro and beans?At what price? In some mama-put, you can stick a N100 pounded yam into your nose and still breathe! All we hear is government importing fertilizers the effect of which is yet to be seen in the size of cassava, carrots and yam.

In the good old days of no fertilizers, yams the size of a 4-year old kid are harvested in Abakaliki. Are we progressing or regressing?

Nigeria on my mind
Mar 1, 2012, 01:00 AM
Says who? Care to support the assertion?

Nigerians that eat Iyan and Egusi everyday... or Amala and Gbegiri Soup? or Asaro and beans?


I was using Yam as a metaphor for the necessities the average Nigerian can ill-afford. But according to you, my belief is unfounded. Well that is great news. My perception that the average Nigerian cannot afford meat, milk, fish and eggs must also be wrong. I guess those Nigerians who satisfy their protein needs by setting traps and harvesting the "congo meat" providence compassionately provides after every rainfall, must be driven by the thrill of procuring their own food? Who knew?

Ajibs
Mar 1, 2012, 04:42 PM
At what price? In some mama-put, you can stick a N100 pounded yam into your nose and still breathe! All we hear is government importing fertilizers the effect of which is yet to be seen in the size of cassava, carrots and yam.

In the good old days of no fertilizers, yams the size of a 4-year old kid are harvested in Abakaliki. Are we progressing or regressing?

Agens / NOMM

In this process of bringing in cost of Yam, size of yam et al, you are knowingly or unknowingly widening the debate and distracting from the core issue in MY opinion.

The core issue here is and I repeat, the Federal Government in Nigeria needs to get out of the oil industry production and retain an administrative and regulatory role only. As I hope you will agree, The rot in the industry did not start when GEJ became president.

When I was still in Nigeria during the Abacha era, (1996 / 97) I remember sleeping in my car in queues at gas stations for 2 days just to buy one full tank of fuel on several occasions. As they did not even allow you to fill jerry cans, and even then if you were out of luck, police will drive up with a pickup truck filled with gallons on the back, jump the queue and fill them up immediately, by the time your car reach, fuel don finish, oya, sleep yet another day or go home?

Why did this happen?

Of course, now I know, that as far back as then, 16 years ago, our refineries were completely finished, dead and have been more or less gone for a very long time.

If you have the ability to be unbiased and honest about this and other issues, you will be bold enough to admit that these issues, like the high cost of foodstuffs did not start when GEJ became president. Hence it is unfair an ingenious to attribute the blame squarely to him about the size of a ball of Iyan you can put in your nose. (you better be careful, if you put another ball in your other nostril, nah pafuka be dat...)

The issues of fertilizer et al, are NOT problems / issues started or created by the GEJ administration so if you want to be fair, be fair. But if you want to be biased, stay biased.


Enyi,

You mentioned that NITEL still co-existed with the private telecom companies. You are 100% correct. I am not against this model. I have previously stated the subsidy removal should have been phased. However, people here want the FG to build new refineries and keep the subsidy in place forever, I say, NO! If the FG wants to keep the three close to dead ones they have now, great, but the three new ones announced for Lagos, Kogi and Bayelsa should be publicly bid out to the private sector and government should regulate. GEJ / Yar'Adua / Obasanjo or anyone will not solve the rot in the industry overnight.

What I expect is the NLC and TUC and PENGASSAN et al should now be sitting down with the procurement department of the NNPC to ensure when the bid documents comes out, their issues have been addressed within the bid documents. This is my argument laid out in my thread Fuel Subsidy Removal ACT 2: Hold the government accountable (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/67848-fuel-subsidy-removal-act-2-hold-government-accountable.html)

But coming back to NITEL AND MTEL, years ago while still in Nigeria, in Ikeja our exchange at Maryland burnt to the ground, ALL landlines in Ikeja were down for over a YEAR. I made probably over 50 trips to that exchange when it was rebuilt each time spending the whole damn day at the place only to move one inch closer and jam another roadblock, man know man connections no even work, egunge sef no work after everyone was there with their own egunge, so at the end of the day to the the line re-connected it was a combination of bragado+egunge+connections+luck+the almighty grace of God (as you know then in Nigeria you have to attribute everything to the grace of God...) even after that, it was another round of egunge to the team who actually showed up to connect the line...

...Now fast forward to 2009 when I was in Abuja. I needed internet connection at home in the apartment. I made inquires was told to check out visaphone (http://www.visafone.com.ng/), went to their office in town walked right in discussed the options, paid the exact fees required and walked out with the wireless modem, took it home, plugged in and it worked. Just like that. No bragado, no engunge and most important, no connection to anyone at all. And I might add, no need for the grace of God either. I'd rather save my grace of God for more life threatening situations.

Of course the telecommunications industry is far from perfect, especially this need to carry 3 or 4 phones (amazingly though when I Nigeria I only had ONE, MTN and I seemed to do okay). But compared to what life was under NITEL and MTEL, comparatively, today we are in heaven already. To get a phone line, arrive in Nigeria, with your unlocked phone and right there in the airport, you can buy a sim card and be talking within 20 minutes.

Also important is you now have a CHOICE, you pick your phone and company according to the size of your pocket. You have companies with national spread like MTN, Econet and Zain but you also have smaller companies like visaphone and regional companies like Onet. There is so much choice no body needs to go and queue up and almost die just to get a simple phone line. By contrast now, all telecom companies are begging you advertising, having raffles / lotteries to attract new customers. The end product: The everyday Nigerian is better off. I hear people even transfer money via their phones!

Now let me ask, despite the continued epileptic existence of NITEL and MTEL, how many people use their services today aside from possibly government and huge corporations?

Secondly, now that most of the population gets its telecom services via the private industry does that not reduce the demand on the NITEL / MTEL facilities and possibly now allow them to serve their customers better?

Finally, despite the enormous loss of market share in the telecom industry have NITEL / MTEL reduced the size of their staff? Did we see NITEL / MTEL employees re-deployed as we read PHCN employees at the HQ building will be redeployed to prevent redundancy?

agensheku
Mar 1, 2012, 05:25 PM
Nobody is solely holding GEJ liable for the whole rot in the Oil industry. Everybody knows the governments, past and present see the industry as a cow to be milked to "Get Yours" and get out when your time expires.

Nigerians are no zombies. If a leader with GENUINE intention to clean up the industry comes on board and leads by example with very clean hands, the whole nation will rally round him. How long has GEJ been in Aso Rock now? If he has a blueprint to create a positive turnaround, why is he stuck in reverse gear? He even failed to convince the NASS to stand by him during the fuel crisis!

His good intentions will manifest in how he reacts to the House of Reps final report on fuel subsidy and what he makes of whatever Ribadu Committee rakes up in liquid cash. Sincerely, I have nothing personal against GEJ. All we ask is that with his background, he just must make a positive difference from the likes of Abacha. Is that asking for too much?

Mikky jaga
Mar 1, 2012, 05:37 PM
@NAR,

Your asking the government to hands off the oil industry is like asking the US to hands off the Agric sector. The oil industry is so strategic to our National Interest that government needs to even be more directly involved. More government owned refineries and filling stations.

The problem is not government involvement, but corruption in the Industry. If the government runs away and the corruption is not tackled, those that will take over the industry will soon run it aground.

Now, who are the people to take over when the government leaves? They are the same set of people that collect subsidy for fuel not imported and this includes TOTAL.

Jonathan is not being blamed for the rot over the years, but for engaging the reverse gear in the fight against corruption in the industry. It took the house revelations before GEJ knew he did not know how much fuel is imported and for which he paid subsidy monthly. But rather than wait for the investigation to complete and the industry cleaned up so that he would know the true situation of things, he was bent on increasing fuel prices to generate more money that would go down the same drain.

The guy is hopelessly on the reverse gear.

agensheku
Mar 1, 2012, 07:10 PM
NLC rejects FG's 600 mass transit buses
On March 1, 2012

BY EMEKA MAMAH
http://vml1.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/BRT-bus2.jpg?9d7bd4


The Nigerian Labour Congress, NLC, has rejected the plan by the Federal Government to allocate additional 600 mass transit buses to labour under its Subsidy Reinvestment Programme, SURE-P, saying the action was not a product of genuine dialogue with the congress.

Vice President of the union and Chairman Labour Transport Company, LTC, Comrade Issa Aremu who made this known said the earlier understanding was that the Federal Government would make funds available to reputable transport companies including the LTC under the SURE-P to procure vehicles and not necessarily to procure same and dump with such transporters.

"Under its SURE-programme the Federal Government promised to make funds available for reputable Transport operators (of which NLC's is one) and not necessarily to procure and dump (as it were!) buses to operators," Aremu said while stressing that Labour would not subscribe to "feverish top-down bus allocation that is not a product of genuine dialogue and part of comprehensive programme of transport service delivery.

"The Federal Government under its SURE-P promised to make fund available for reputable transporters and not necessarily to procure and dump, buses to operators. The provision of buses is just one of the many components of a functioning and efficient transportation mix. Bus provision is not the same as transport service.

"Even much more important is the urgent need to reinvent the railway system. To this extent, labour supports every genuine effort at ensuring a sustainable national transport service delivery system.

"What Nigerians want is a functional, affordable, comfortable, reliable and accessible mass transit system which is usually driven by factors including transport plan/studies (bus routes, bus type/specifications, bus number, transport fare, operation standards, legal, institutional and regulatory framework, infrastructures (bus depot, terminals, bus shelters), operation and management framework, traffic control system, among others", the labour leader opined.

According to him, correct approach should be to allow all genuine transport operators including LTC exercise their right to source and procure their own buses while the Federal Government makes fund available at zero per cent interest as promised, within the context of an overall national mass transit transport policy.

"In the overall interest of Nigerians, Labour and its partners are prepared to work with the Federal Government towards fashioning a robust transport solution for Nigeria that would result in functional, affordable, comfortable, reliable and accessible mass transit system as obtained in other countries to ensure that the sufferings of the masses are reduced considerably', Aremu stated.

SOURCE:www.vanguardngr.com

Enyi
Mar 1, 2012, 08:09 PM
Agens / NOMM

Enyi,

You mentioned that NITEL still co-existed with the private telecom companies. You are 100% correct. I am not against this model. I have previously stated the subsidy removal should have been phased. However, people here want the FG to build new refineries and keep the subsidy in place forever, I say, NO! If the FG wants to keep the three close to dead ones they have now, great, but the three new ones announced for Lagos, Kogi and Bayelsa should be publicly bid out to the private sector and government should regulate. GEJ / Yar'Adua / Obasanjo or anyone will not solve the rot in the industry overnight.

What I expect is the NLC and TUC and PENGASSAN et al should now be sitting down with the procurement department of the NNPC to ensure when the bid documents comes out, their issues have been addressed within the bid documents. This is my argument laid out in my thread Fuel Subsidy Removal ACT 2: Hold the government accountable (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/67848-fuel-subsidy-removal-act-2-hold-government-accountable.html)

But coming back to NITEL AND MTEL, years ago while still in Nigeria, in Ikeja our exchange at Maryland burnt to the ground, ALL landlines in Ikeja were down for over a YEAR. I made probably over 50 trips to that exchange when it was rebuilt each time spending the whole damn day at the place only to move one inch closer and jam another roadblock, man know man connections no even work, egunge sef no work after everyone was there with their own egunge, so at the end of the day to the the line re-connected it was a combination of bragado+egunge+connections+luck+the almighty grace of God (as you know then in Nigeria you have to attribute everything to the grace of God...) even after that, it was another round of egunge to the team who actually showed up to connect the line...

...Now fast forward to 2009 when I was in Abuja. I needed internet connection at home in the apartment. I made inquires was told to check out visaphone (http://www.visafone.com.ng/), went to their office in town walked right in discussed the options, paid the exact fees required and walked out with the wireless modem, took it home, plugged in and it worked. Just like that. No bragado, no engunge and most important, no connection to anyone at all. And I might add, no need for the grace of God either. I'd rather save my grace of God for more life threatening situations.

Of course the telecommunications industry is far from perfect, especially this need to carry 3 or 4 phones (amazingly though when I Nigeria I only had ONE, MTN and I seemed to do okay). But compared to what life was under NITEL and MTEL, comparatively, today we are in heaven already. To get a phone line, arrive in Nigeria, with your unlocked phone and right there in the airport, you can buy a sim card and be talking within 20 minutes.

Also important is you now have a CHOICE, you pick your phone and company according to the size of your pocket. You have companies with national spread like MTN, Econet and Zain but you also have smaller companies like visaphone and regional companies like Onet. There is so much choice no body needs to go and queue up and almost die just to get a simple phone line. By contrast now, all telecom companies are begging you advertising, having raffles / lotteries to attract new customers. The end product: The everyday Nigerian is better off. I hear people even transfer money via their phones!

Now let me ask, despite the continued epileptic existence of NITEL and MTEL, how many people use their services today aside from possibly government and huge corporations?

Secondly, now that most of the population gets its telecom services via the private industry does that not reduce the demand on the NITEL / MTEL facilities and possibly now allow them to serve their customers better?

Finally, despite the enormous loss of market share in the telecom industry have NITEL / MTEL reduced the size of their staff? Did we see NITEL / MTEL employees re-deployed as we read PHCN employees at the HQ building will be redeployed to prevent redundancy?

It seems to me that our discussion is drifting. I shall prefer that we stay focused on the bone of contention. As far as I know, nobody has blamed GEJ for the rot in the country. We must accept the following facts
1). GEJ voluntarily contested for the Presidency.
2). He was aware of the rot before he ran for the Presidency
3). While many Nigerians do not expect an overnight miracle, they demand that there must be visible efforts to appropriately tackle the rot.
4) The existence of the rot before his presidency is not an excuse for inaction or for a retreat.

I do not think that this is an appropriate thread to discuss the causes of inefficiency in our parastatals. We can discuss this on a different thread.
I am glad that you recounted your experience in the telecommunications sector. Now pay attention to this.
After paying 180,000 Naira for telephone with a private company, I discovered that the line could not be used for fax or Internet. At this point in time only users of NITEL lines had these options. On several occasions, I asked for explanation from the company and I always got a standard answer- our engineers are working on this. To cut a long story short, the engineers were still working on it until the company went out of business. Right now, many cybercafés had gone out of business because the ISP providers took more clients than their facilities could cope with. All these indicate that even with private companies, it is still not "Kumbaya" in the telecommunications system.
I note that you once more raised the issue of choice. Nobody has argued in favor of monopoly. There is nothing wrong with the government encouraging more private ownership of refineries. The more, the merrier. Even then the government must still ensure that the masses are not short-changed. I can assure you that in many countries, governments do not own bakeries. Yet, bakers cannot arbitrarily raise the price of bread. You may recall that many years back, there was riot in ?Tunisia, because the price of bread went up. The role of the government in these countries is to ensure that bakers get flour at reasonable prices so that bread is not sold at exorbitant prices.
Back to the so-called fuel subsidy! Let me repeat my earlier statements. FGN must first tackle the corruption and its profligacy. Subsequently, the issue of the so-called subsidy can be examined. It is immoral and obscene to ask the masses to make sacrifices that government officials are not willing to make.

agensheku
Mar 2, 2012, 05:45 AM
Back to the so-called fuel subsidy! Let me repeat my earlier statements. FGN must first tackle the corruption and its profligacy. Subsequently, the issue of the so-called subsidy can be examined. It is immoral and obscene to ask the masses to make sacrifices that government officials are not willing to make.

Enyi,

You have spoken very well. How were our ministers getting their fuel whenever there was fuel crisis?

As exposed by the Reps probe into fuel subsidy, would those paying dollars for fuel meant for Nigeria and hidden in Cotonou do same if it was their personal funds involved?

NAR promised in an earlier post on another thread that he would give GEJ a maximum of two years to ship up or he would also be unsparing in his criticisms. Truth hidden in the Atlantic ocean will float, sooner than later. Its not by force that NAR must criticize GEJ but we must not lose our objectivity because of "other factors" which may not be known to all.

Even if NAR takes over from Abati Phd, he still cannot convince the masses if GEJ fails to take the right decisions for the common good of Nigeria s majority, period.

Obugi
Mar 2, 2012, 03:41 PM
NOMM,


Government is not involved in yam production, so why can't the average Nigerian afford yam?

I think yam is too expensive and should be susidized. Govt should take over yam production and sell it cheaply to the masses! Food is too important to be so expensive........:sick1:

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

Mikky jaga
Mar 2, 2012, 04:44 PM
NOMM,



I think yam is too expensive and should be susidized. Govt should take over yam production and sell it cheaply to the masses! Food is too important to be so expensive........:sick1:

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

There is nothing wrong with government getting involved in yam production. With the army of unemployed youths that abound in Nigeria and with our vast arable land, any wise government will establish farm settlements where youths will be gainfully engaged to produce food that will then be sold cheaply.

agensheku
Mar 2, 2012, 05:08 PM
There is nothing wrong with government getting involved in yam production. With the army of unemployed youths that abound in Nigeria and with our vast arable land, any wise government will establish farm settlements where youths will be gainfully engaged to produce food that will then be sold cheaply.

And of course, we can "Occupy Nigeria" if we cant get yam to buy for N40 per tuber!:p:D Unless of course they devise ways of shipping out our yam and bringing them back canned pounded yam, fried yam, yam chips and selling them to us at dollar rates.:lol:

With our rulers, nothing is impossible. They may even park the yam trailers in Cotonou and get dollar payments for the "importation",ke!:o And they reserve the right to call us ingrates for not appreciating their efforts to feed us "yam-internationale"!:D

Ajibs
Mar 2, 2012, 05:31 PM
It seems to me that our discussion is drifting. I shall prefer that we stay focused on the bone of contention. As far as I know, nobody has blamed GEJ for the rot in the country. We must accept the following facts
1). GEJ voluntarily contested for the Presidency.
2). He was aware of the rot before he ran for the Presidency
3). While many Nigerians do not expect an overnight miracle, they demand that there must be visible efforts to appropriately tackle the rot.
4) The existence of the rot before his presidency is not an excuse for inaction or for a retreat.

I do not think that this is an appropriate thread to discuss the causes of inefficiency in our parastatals. We can discuss this on a different thread.
I am glad that you recounted your experience in the telecommunications sector. Now pay attention to this.
After paying 180,000 Naira for telephone with a private company, I discovered that the line could not be used for fax or Internet. At this point in time only users of NITEL lines had these options. On several occasions, I asked for explanation from the company and I always got a standard answer- our engineers are working on this. To cut a long story short, the engineers were still working on it until the company went out of business. Right now, many cybercafés had gone out of business because the ISP providers took more clients than their facilities could cope with. All these indicate that even with private companies, it is still not "Kumbaya" in the telecommunications system.
I note that you once more raised the issue of choice. Nobody has argued in favor of monopoly. There is nothing wrong with the government encouraging more private ownership of refineries. The more, the merrier. Even then the government must still ensure that the masses are not short-changed. I can assure you that in many countries, governments do not own bakeries. Yet, bakers cannot arbitrarily raise the price of bread. You may recall that many years back, there was riot in ?Tunisia, because the price of bread went up. The role of the government in these countries is to ensure that bakers get flour at reasonable prices so that bread is not sold at exorbitant prices.

Back to the so-called fuel subsidy! Let me repeat my earlier statements. FGN must first tackle the corruption and its profligacy. Subsequently, the issue of the so-called subsidy can be examined. It is immoral and obscene to ask the masses to make sacrifices that government officials are not willing to make.

Enyi,
Let me refocus on the issue at hand, hence forgive me for not addressing the issues as regards NITEL, I will come back to that later. I will start with the statement in bold at the end, so this discussion will no longer drift.

First I completely disagree with your statement in bold 101%. Let us get back to the fundamentals of this issue via an easy question and answer session:

Why do we have subsidy in the first place?
Because we import fuel and other refined petroleum products

Why do we import fuel?
Because our local refineries cannot produce enough local product to satisfy local demand

Why is this the case,
Because our four local refineries are between 23 and 47 years old.

What doe sthis mean?
They are currently producing at 38% of their installed capacity

What!!! WTF???
Indeed over the years, as admitted by the NNPC, the facilities are old and they have not been regularly maintained.

I hope you have no disagreements with the question and answers posted above. if you do, here again is my argument.

What Nigeria needs now first and foremost are NEW refineries that can refine our crude oil locally. It is insane as an oil producing nation we import refined products. That should be the number one problem to solve. It is INSANE that in Port Harcourt where TWO refineries are located, Mikki Jaja is telling us he is buying fuel at N200 instead of N97.

This is basic economics, SUPPLY must match or outweigh DEMAND.

Solving corruption and profligacy will NOT boost the capacity of the refineries we have now. We need new ones built ASAP. This cannot wait.

ALSO this cannot wait as I have shouted myself hoarse over my keyboard (:D) that when the facilities we have now where built there was corruption and profligacy, so having those at this point in time is not a tenable excuse for Nigeria not to have new facilities built. We can do both at the same time. Now we should be able to do a better job.



Secondly, in that regards, both corruption and profligacy are being tackled and we shall see if there will be actionable results. Ribadu now heads yet another subsidy task force to look into and deal with the corruption so that is also on the front burner already. Again we shall see what comes of that "investigation"

As regards profligacy, I refer you again to my thread on ACT 2. The FG has made promises to reduce the size of government as well as cut its expenses. NOW the question I will ask you is WHO serves as the watchman for these promises? This is again why I stated in that thread that NLC / TUC need to move to ACT 2 which becomes holding government accountable for its promises, rather that keep fighting the battle on a train that has left the station.

Until that happens, all of us will be talking dogon turenchi and big grammar all over the village square.

Now we read that after hearing that there will be no SuRE, NLC says then take fuel back to N65, knowing fully well this will not happen.

I know of no government that simply acts nice due to some belief in the welfare of the people or some "higher power" governments act responsibly because there is somebody out there who is going to hold them responsible for their actions. Or because they have a plan of their own.

Who should be the watchdog? Is it going to be our Multi-million dollar salaried new jeep driving National Assembly? In a normal situation, yes. But our situation is not normal. Was it not you who said common sense is now hiding in Dodan Barracks and Ikeja Cantonment...? :D

This is why the NLC / TUC on behalf of the people need to focus and step up to the plate. Rather that just be a group of Comrades, they now need lawyers, experts in the constitution and more so they can fight the government toe to toe and get some results. When this is done, corruption and profligacy will be put in check.

BUT!!!!! This does not need to be done before the government gets the hell out of the oil industry and allows for private investments in refineries.

Finally in NITEL. Rather than a more long grammar, let me make two points:

One, suffice to say despite your disappointment after paying N180,000. You had a CHOICE. You could stay with them or go back to NITEL / MTEL and get what you wanted.

Two, progressive development. yes at the time, only NITEL / MTEL offered what you wanted, But because the government no longer monopolized the sector, it grew, expanded rather fast, and today you an get what you need form a variety of vendors. Linkserve a pioneer major player as an ISP in Lagos has now been overtaken by the big GSM providers. All in a short span of about 10-15 years the industry has undergone accelerated growth despite the numerous hiccups.

Ajibs
Mar 2, 2012, 06:11 PM
Enyi,
One more thing on NITEL, yesterday I read that the FG now wants to carry out a liquidation sale of NITEL. This is after the various governments unsuccessful attempts to sell off and privatize the outfit over 11 years!. (http://dailytimes.com.ng/article/nitel-be-liquidated)

You might be able to look into the situation and see one of the reasons for this is potential buyers believe the FG has over valued NITEL! The outfit must be in gross disrepair and no one will pay top dollar for it. I bet you if the same was done for those refineries today, the outcome might be rather similar.

Enyi
Mar 2, 2012, 06:53 PM
Enyi,
Let me refocus on the issue at hand, hence forgive me for not addressing the issues as regards NITEL, I will come back to that later. I will start with the statement in bold at the end, so this discussion will no longer drift.

First I completely disagree with your statement in bold 101%. Let us get back to the fundamentals of this issue via an easy question and answer session:

Why do we have subsidy in the first place?
Because we import fuel and other refined petroleum products

Why do we import fuel?
Because our local refineries cannot produce enough local product to satisfy local demand

Why is this the case,
Because our four local refineries are between 23 and 47 years old.

What doe sthis mean?
They are currently producing at 38% of their installed capacity

What!!! WTF???
Indeed over the years, as admitted by the NNPC, the facilities are old and they have not been regularly maintained.

I hope you have no disagreements with the question and answers posted above. if you do, here again is my argument.

What Nigeria needs now first and foremost are NEW refineries that can refine our crude oil locally. It is insane as an oil producing nation we import refined products. That should be the number one problem to solve. It is INSANE that in Port Harcourt where TWO refineries are located, Mikki Jaja is telling us he is buying fuel at N200 instead of N97.

This is basic economics, SUPPLY must match or outweigh DEMAND.

Solving corruption and profligacy will NOT boost the capacity of the refineries we have now. We need new ones built ASAP. This cannot wait.

ALSO this cannot wait as I have shouted myself hoarse over my keyboard (:D) that when the facilities we have now where built there was corruption and profligacy, so having those at this point in time is not a tenable excuse for Nigeria not to have new facilities built. We can do both at the same time. Now we should be able to do a better job.



Secondly, in that regards, both corruption and profligacy are being tackled and we shall see if there will be actionable results. Ribadu now heads yet another subsidy task force to look into and deal with the corruption so that is also on the front burner already. Again we shall see what comes of that "investigation"

As regards profligacy, I refer you again to my thread on ACT 2. The FG has made promises to reduce the size of government as well as cut its expenses. NOW the question I will ask you is WHO serves as the watchman for these promises? This is again why I stated in that thread that NLC / TUC need to move to ACT 2 which becomes holding government accountable for its promises, rather that keep fighting the battle on a train that has left the station.

Until that happens, all of us will be talking dogon turenchi and big grammar all over the village square.

Now we read that after hearing that there will be no SuRE, NLC says then take fuel back to N65, knowing fully well this will not happen.

I know of no government that simply acts nice due to some belief in the welfare of the people or some "higher power" governments act responsibly because there is somebody out there who is going to hold them responsible for their actions. Or because they have a plan of their own.

Who should be the watchdog? Is it going to be our Multi-million dollar salaried new jeep driving National Assembly? In a normal situation, yes. But our situation is not normal. Was it not you who said common sense is now hiding in Dodan Barracks and Ikeja Cantonment...? :D

This is why the NLC / TUC on behalf of the people need to focus and step up to the plate. Rather that just be a group of Comrades, they now need lawyers, experts in the constitution and more so they can fight the government toe to toe and get some results. When this is done, corruption and profligacy will be put in check.

BUT!!!!! This does not need to be done before the government gets the hell out of the oil industry and allows for private investments in refineries.

Finally in NITEL. Rather than a more long grammar, let me make two points:

One, suffice to say despite your disappointment after paying N180,000. You had a CHOICE. You could stay with them or go back to NITEL / MTEL and get what you wanted.

Two, progressive development. yes at the time, only NITEL / MTEL offered what you wanted, But because the government no longer monopolized the sector, it grew, expanded rather fast, and today you an get what you need form a variety of vendors. Linkserve a pioneer major player as an ISP in Lagos has now been overtaken by the big GSM providers. All in a short span of about 10-15 years the industry has undergone accelerated growth despite the numerous hiccups.

In the spirit that the first shall be the last, I shall start with NITEL.
It seems you are mixing up issues. The bone of contention is not whether one should have a choice or not. I have stated repeatedly that monopoly is bad for any economy. The bone of contention is whether fuel subsidy should be removed and when. You should take gognizance of the fact that even in Telecommunications, the government has not completely withdrawn even after deregulation. The problem in my own case is that I did not have the option of even using NITEL services because lines were not available. There are countries where both government and private compnies are involved in telecommunications. Please, let's not derail the discussion by going into reasons of inefficiency in our Parastatals.
Back to your fisrt point! It is not correct to say that our refineries cannot meet our domestic consumption. The truth is that none of the refineries has ever functioned at full capacity. I do not wish to go into reasons for this.
Secondly, lack of adequate maintenance may be a more important factor than age of the refineries.
Thirdly, nobody is against building of more refineries. I have commented on this in many posts. Frankly, FGN should create enabling environment to attract investors in this regard. This does not mean that the government must hurriedly get out of the industry. Well trained army does not retreat in a chaotic manner.
Sure fighting corruption and profligacy will not increase the capacity of the refineries but it will tangentially affect fuel consumption. For example, money that will be saved can be plowed back into development of infra-structure. A significant improvement on power will curtail the use of generators. Please, note that profligacy goes beyond the size of the government. Do you support the purchase of vehicles for members of NASS? Do you support the so-called constituency allowance? The list goes on and on.
The bottom line is that the governments must cut their waste first and foremost before subsidy can be discussed.

Ajibs
Mar 2, 2012, 09:53 PM
Enyi,
Okay it seems we agree now on a couple of things:



In the spirit that the first shall be the last, I shall start with NITEL.
It seems you are mixing up issues. The bone of contention is not whether one should have a choice or not. I have stated repeatedly that monopoly is bad for any economy.

First point of agreement, the statement in bold above.


The bone of contention is whether fuel subsidy should be removed and when. You should take gognizance of the fact that even in Telecommunications, the government has not completely withdrawn even after deregulation. The problem in my own case is that I did not have the option of even using NITEL services because lines were not available.

I partially agree here. NITEL is still around, but so many people now rely on GSM phones its landlines are becoming obsolete. This is not just in Nigeria, years ago I finally cut of my land land here when I realized I was paying money monthly for something I never really used. Now NITEL can certainly be relevant again, but I cannot trust the government to be the ones to turn it around.


There are countries where both government and private compnies are involved in telecommunications. Please, let's not derail the discussion by going into reasons of inefficiency in our Parastatals.

Again I agree, also in the oil industry, for example Petrobras the near monopoly in Brazil is over 60% owed by the government. But as you said lets not get into the inefficiency we have in Nigeria.


Back to your fisrt point! It is not correct to say that our refineries cannot meet our domestic consumption. The truth is that none of the refineries has ever functioned at full capacity. I do not wish to go into reasons for this.

Keeping in mind we need to deal with what is and not what could or should have been. Now IF they never operated at full capacity then that sad fact still does not address the issue that today, that they cannot meet local demand. If you do feel they can meet local demand today, please go into details.


Secondly, lack of adequate maintenance may be a more important factor than age of the refineries.
Thirdly, nobody is against building of more refineries. I have commented on this in many posts. Frankly, FGN should create enabling environment to attract investors in this regard.

Great, agreed, BUT what do you mean by "enabling environment"?


This does not mean that the government must hurriedly get out of the industry. Well trained army does not retreat in a chaotic manner.

Again agreed and I also have commented on why GEJ felt the subsidy had to be removed all at once. BUT as I can say it was ill advised I could also see why it was done. I am repeating comments I have also made on this, but suffice to say in a country like Nigeria it is HIGHLY likely that had the cost of fuel been increased from N65 to just N70, NLC and TUC et al would still have gone on strike.

Hence GEJ knew that it would never get the subsidy removed at once, but carried out a preemptive and planned action to get to where his target was. Some of us said this is what would happen at the end of the day. It is what has always happened in Nigeria. This is also why I have said, I hope the NLC is ready for round two next year when the rest of the subsidy is removed. They had better get on board and FORCE the government to embrace the SuRE program.


Sure fighting corruption and profligacy will not increase the capacity of the refineries but it will tangentially affect fuel consumption. For example, money that will be saved can be plowed back into development of infra-structure. A significant improvement on power will curtail the use of generators. Please, note that profligacy goes beyond the size of the government. Do you support the purchase of vehicles for members of NASS? Do you support the so-called constituency allowance? The list goes on and on.

Let me expand on why I disagree with you. And it is because you are 100% correct on your assumptions above. I do not support the moni miss road salaries of the multi millionaire National Assembly. And that is the point the task to minimize government waste and expenditure is for anyone who care to be honest and realistic is battle that will be fought over many years in Nigeria.

This is no longer a military dictatorship where the Head of State coughs and the people run for cover. GEJ can announce tomorrow that all National Assembly members salary is cut in half... then what does he do? He will send that same bill to the same National Assembly to past and enact as law...

So essentially, we cannot wait for all these official and unofficial cabals in and out of government to be completely tackled before we remove subsidy or build new facilities. The battle to solve those problems will realistically take almost a decade to solve.

Remember, the corruption in Nigeria starts at the Oga / Madam at the top all the way down to Oga's driver, gateman and secretary. Should you need to see Oga to discuss your business, you start by egunge from down below and work you way up. And the higher you go, the larger the egunge becomes...


The bottom line is that the governments must cut their waste first and foremost before subsidy can be discussed.

So again I disagree, government should do all at the same time. Again remove the subsidy, provide DIRECT assistance to the people as necessary for the short term and at the same time tackle corruption and profligacy.

And as we know if government gets out of oil, then that makes government smaller and direct savings will be seen from a smaller government.

Enyi
Mar 2, 2012, 10:17 PM
Enyi,
Okay it seems we agree now on a couple of things:




First point of agreement, the statement in bold above.



I partially agree here. NITEL is still around, but so many people now rely on GSM phones its landlines are becoming obsolete. This is not just in Nigeria, years ago I finally cut of my land land here when I realized I was paying money monthly for something I never really used. Now NITEL can certainly be relevant again, but I cannot trust the government to be the ones to turn it around.



Again I agree, also in the oil industry, for example Petrobras the near monopoly in Brazil is over 60% owed by the government. But as you said lets not get into the inefficiency we have in Nigeria.



Keeping in mind we need to deal with what is and not what could or should have been. Now IF they never operated at full capacity then that sad fact still does not address the issue that today, that they cannot meet local demand. If you do feel they can meet local demand today, please go into details.



Great, agreed, BUT what do you mean by "enabling environment"?



Again agreed and I also have commented on why GEJ felt the subsidy had to be removed all at once. BUT as I can say it was ill advised I could also see why it was done. I am repeating comments I have also made on this, but suffice to say in a country like Nigeria it is HIGHLY likely that had the cost of fuel been increased from N65 to just N70, NLC and TUC et al would still have gone on strike.

Hence GEJ knew that it would never get the subsidy removed at once, but carried out a preemptive and planned action to get to where his target was. Some of us said this is what would happen at the end of the day. It is what has always happened in Nigeria. This is also why I have said, I hope the NLC is ready for round two next year when the rest of the subsidy is removed. They had better get on board and FORCE the government to embrace the SuRE program.



Let me expand on why I disagree with you. And it is because you are 100% correct on your assumptions above. I do not support the moni miss road salaries of the multi millionaire National Assembly. And that is the point the task to minimize government waste and expenditure is for anyone who care to be honest and realistic is battle that will be fought over many years in Nigeria.

This is no longer a military dictatorship where the Head of State coughs and the people run for cover. GEJ can announce tomorrow that all National Assembly members salary is cut in half... then what does he do? He will send that same bill to the same National Assembly to past and enact as law...

So essentially, we cannot wait for all these official and unofficial cabals in and out of government to be completely tackled before we remove subsidy or build new facilities. The battle to solve those problems will realistically take almost a decade to solve.

Remember, the corruption in Nigeria starts at the Oga / Madam at the top all the way down to Oga's driver, gateman and secretary. Should you need to see Oga to discuss your business, you start by egunge from down below and work you way up. And the higher you go, the larger the egunge becomes...



So again I disagree, government should do all at the same time. Again remove the subsidy, provide DIRECT assistance to the people as necessary for the short term and at the same time tackle corruption and profligacy.

And as we know if government gets out of oil, then that makes government smaller and direct savings will be seen from a smaller government.

It seems we are understanding ourselves now. This is the essence of a good discussion. We still have differences to be resolved.
Please, note that when I talk of government, I do not restrict it to GEJ. The emoluments of NASS was fixed by a body, not NASS. NASS can incur expenditure if there is budget allocation. This means that the Presidency must be willing to fight over the budget as happens in US. In the past, the Presidency had often bribed NASS directly or indirectly so that NASS in return will turn a blind eye to the excesses of the Presidency. This should stop. More importantly, there is a need for mass mobilization to cmbat the profligacy. The reaction to the subsidy removal should have been sustained.
You believe that the government can fight corruption and remove subsidy at the same time. This will not succeed. A good general avoids fighting on too many fronts if he/she can. Right now, governments have little or no credibility. Therefore, masses will not believe pontifications on corruption. The fight so far, which has been selective cuts no ice.
The government has announced with glee that it has unmasked the cabal behind the corruption in the oil sector. What have they done about it? What happened to the Power probe? No, nobody takes the government serious on this.
You aske what I mean by enabling environment? How easy is it to get permit to build a refinery? Why has it taken the government so many years to see the need for more refineries?
Your closing paragraph is on wrong premises. I do not want to derail the discussion. However, let me quickly say that a unitary government with American type Presidential system will never result in smaller government. Many of us have been calling for structural adjustment to the nation. This is an issue for another discussion.

Mikky jaga
Mar 3, 2012, 08:34 AM
The problem is that we do not even know how much fuel we consume, how then do we know whether the existing refineries can meet local demand or not.

And what is this about refineries being old? The pipes laid when the refineries were built are still largely the same lines carrying the fuel today. All that is needed is replace obsolete parts and fit new units where technology advance has made some sections inefficient

Unfortunately, about six weeks after the government announced it has contacted the original builders of the refinery to do a TAM on the facilities, Japanese Ambassador told the Senate Committee that visited PH recently that there was nothing like that.

Enyi
Mar 3, 2012, 08:46 AM
The problem is that we do not even know how much fuel we consume, how then do we know whether the existing refineries can meet local demand or not.

And what is this about refineries being old? The pipes laid when the refineries were built are still largely the same lines carrying the fuel today. All that is needed is replace obsolete parts and fit new units where technology advance has made some sections inefficient

Unfortunately, about six weeks after the government announced it has contacted the original builders of the refinery to do a TAM on the facilities, Japanese Ambassador told the Senate Committee that visited PH recently that there was nothing like that.

You have given an example to support my assertion that government lacks credibility. Any government that wants to be taken seriously must jealously guard its cedibility, This unfortunately has not been an attribute of our government over the years.

agensheku
Mar 3, 2012, 09:22 AM
The problem is that we do not even know how much fuel we consume, how then do we know whether the existing refineries can meet local demand or not.

And what is this about refineries being old? The pipes laid when the refineries were built are still largely the same lines carrying the fuel today. All that is needed is replace obsolete parts and fit new units where technology advance has made some sections inefficient

Unfortunately, about six weeks after the government announced it has contacted the original builders of the refinery to do a TAM on the facilities, Japanese Ambassador told the Senate Committee that visited PH recently that there was nothing like that.


All na phototrick! TAM is an euphemism for ripping us off all these years and there is no possibility that when the original builders come, they would not see through the tricks. So, why call on them!:o

Besides, old age of the plants was the original alibi for fuel importation and since it has been proven that there are more lollies via importation, why would they want the local ones to work?:twisted:

Its like saying the generators importation cabal will ever let the nation have stable electricity forever. The government knows, hence the billions voted for generators and fuelling in 2012, even at the seat of power!:thinking:

Nigeria on my mind
Mar 4, 2012, 01:06 AM
Governments are not intrinsincally dysfunctional. After all, they are composed of the same human beings that run the private companies we wish to invest with the task of managing our commercial institutions. We need to revitilize our collective work ethic and start learning to suppress the tendency to adopt economic measures incompatible with our circumstances simply because they are recommended by people with more university degrees than common sense. It ain't rocket science, people.

The F.B.I., as well as the fire departments of the cities of the U.S. are government-managed agencies, and they function more competently than any private concern ever has in Nigeria. Many of the primary schools that imbued our parents with intellects that many universities today are hard pressed to replicate, were publicly manged as well.

Government is fine. Nigerians just haven't learned how to, or are no longer willing to utilize it.

Kemet
Mar 4, 2012, 09:56 AM
Y
Governments are not intrinsincally dysfunctional. After all, they are composed of the same human beings that run the private companies we wish to invest with the task of managing our commercial institutions. We need to revitilize our collective work ethic and start learning to suppress the tendency to adopt economic measures incompatible with our circumstances simply because ........

Government is fine. Nigerians just haven't learned how to, or are no longer willing to utilize it.

Of course government is not intrinsically dysfunctional, just in the same way as it will be wrong to describe antibiotics as dysfunctional because it failed to treat common cold. Governments were designed for a different purpose namely to enable communities do things which are in the public interest but which individuals cannot achieve on their own. The principal motivation for government should be the maximization of public welfare. Business units on the other hand are motivated by the maximization of profit. Over the years,despite failed socialist experiments around the world, this profit motive has proven to be the best incentive for supplying private consumption of goods and services in the most resource efficient manner. Someone once quipped that if the US Federal Government was responsible for supplying sand in the Sahara desert, there will be a scarcity of sand. You may have heard of so many mind boggling tales from the US DoD regarding public procurement including the story of a $200,000 toilet bowl.

What I find very interesting on this thread is that the same people who have accused the government of corruption, incompetence and sheer cluelessness are also the ones who seem to want that same government to control increasing sections of our economic life. Logically, if the government is corrupt, their influence on the economy should be kept as small as possible. That would be a more structural solution. Catching thieves and building new government owned refineries is just cosmetics and can be described as kicking the ball down the road. After, the clean-up, it just takes the next set of bad bureaucrats to return us back to square one. Then we start again. Obvious solution is to sell the refineries, completely deregulate and scrap the whole alphabet soup;PPMC, PPRC and large portions of NNPC.

This whole discussion reminds of something I recently read from the economist Bryan Caplan, an expert on public choice theory. He showed in the The Myth of the Rational Voter that many voters are highly irrational and very badly informed when it comes to economic matters.
In particular, these voters (all parties have them) disapprove of free markets, international trade and new technology despite all of the evidence that shows how these things improve their living standards.
Consequently, they favour economic policies that damage their own interests and those of the wider economy. Since politicians' stock in trade is attracting votes, they are encouraged to pander to these irrational biases, and the result is that we end up with policies that attack business and weaken the economy.

Mikky jaga
Mar 5, 2012, 09:16 AM
Y


What I find very interesting on this thread is that the same people who have accused the government of corruption, incompetence and sheer cluelessness are also the ones who seem to want that same government to control increasing sections of our economic life. Logically, if the government is corrupt, their influence on the economy should be kept as small as possible. That would be a more structural solution. Catching thieves and building new government owned refineries is just cosmetics and can be described as kicking the ball down the road. After, the clean-up, it just takes the next set of bad bureaucrats to return us back to square one. Then we start again. Obvious solution is to sell the refineries, completely deregulate and scrap the whole alphabet soup;PPMC, PPRC and large portions of NNPC.



Your argument is based on the assumption that government must always be corrupt and that there is nothing we can do to eradicate corruption from our governance. This is akin to asking us to throw up our hands and concede victory to corruption even before the fight actually begins. No government will ever do that.

The corrupt people running the government are the same people running the private sector. The difference is that people in government see government money as nobody's money that must be looted. A change of attitude is all that is needed to ensure efficiency in the public sector and not abdication of responsibilities.

Kemet
Mar 5, 2012, 12:55 PM
MJ,

Thanks. Unfortunately, corruption in Nigeria is systemic and very difficult to eliminate. Like you said, people in government see the money as belonging to no one mainly because our founding farters never saw the need to do the hard job of building a real nation bound by a single identitity and vision. Patriotic nationalism which is usually the best antidote to the normal instincts for predatory corruption is difficult to evolve in a largely artificial nation. In the absence of a strong nationalistic identity, the only solution is very limited goverment and free enterprise.

Obugi
Mar 5, 2012, 01:52 PM
Kemet,

I see these people finally frustrated you enough that you resumed posting more detailed comments. I thank you. I wrote out a VERY long and detailed post on my phone that got lost. NVS mobile isn't working very well. Let's see if this works.

The first question I have for all those who say that protests have ensured cheap fuel in Lagos but not the East. Why is Lagos buying kerosene at over 120/liter? This fuel is used mostly by the poor. This is a very telling situation and exposes the real spirit behind this agitation for cheap fuel.

Let's see if this will post.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 5, 2012, 02:13 PM
MJ,

Thanks. Unfortunately, corruption in Nigeria is systemic and very difficult to eliminate. Like you said, people in government see the money as belonging to no one mainly because our founding farters never saw the need to do the hard job of building a real nation bound by a single identitity and vision. Patriotic nationalism which is usually the best antidote to the normal instincts for predatory corruption is difficult to evolve in a largely artificial nation. In the absence of a strong nationalistic identity, the only solution is very limited goverment and free enterprise.

Why then, do we not clamour for the dissolution of the artificial nation rather than the call for deregulation of corruption which less government, in this instance will mean.

In Nigeria, there is no anti monopoly law. Anybody can corner as much of the Nation's wealth as he possibly can and thereby hold even the government to ransom. These are some of the checks and balances in places where deregulated economy works

We should either dissolve this artificial Nation that engenders corruption or patch on with a welfarist State where the very poor are not exposed unduly to the harsh realities of crude capitalism.

Obugi
Mar 5, 2012, 05:59 PM
People,

I hope this will be an informative post. Forgive if it appears disjointed, the connection/website is not not functioning optimally and I'm forced to skip a word or leave in phrases that I would ordinarily edit.

First I will tackle the notion advanced by Mikky Jaga that it is possible to minimize corruption in Nigeria. Kemet touched on the truth and I will reemphasize.....patriotism, clean govt, probity and public spiritidness ARE MORE LIKELY TO EXIST in a nation if that nation posseses a common culture or a consensus to accept and submit to one dominant culture....in short, real nationhood is a necessity for the promotion of the public good. A superficial examination of the differences in welfare largesse between the USA and European nations will illustrate this.

Nigeria violates numerous parameters of real nationhood in many ways. It is multi religious, it was and STILL IS colonized, the peoples of the nation are scrambling to kill off their own cultures and aadopt 2nd class status within the confines of (Arab and Western) imperialism. Most important, Nigeria is multi ethnic and none of the ethnic constituents has ability to SUBDUE all the others. In short, Nigeria and most African countries are tailor made for dysfunction in general and corruption in particular. The real choice isn't between corruption and probity, it's between forced unity and dissolution of a country founded on corruption. As things have played out in Nigeria, there's only one ethnic group that has the cohesion, historic nationhood and cultural identity and realistic abillity to force the dissolution of Nigeria and that group is the Yoruba.

Now in the OIL INDUSTRY IN NIGERIA, it's no secret even before and to an increased extent under President OBJ, that it is dominated by Yoruba people. Nothing wrong with that actually, it's a natural outcome that in these inter ethnic contests, someone must emerge a winner. In the context of govt monopoly, regulation and control, the Yoruba have emerged winners and are thus determined to retain the status quo. Of course there are other equally determined centers of opposition to deregulation, but the hysteria engendered by this opposition is most grounded among the Yoruba or maybe I should say Lagos...I will admit that a certain tradition of populist opposition politics also plays a part, but retaining access to the proceeds of corruption and rent seeking is surely a dominant and instinctive motivation, especially among the business and middle classes.

Now to the mechanics or workings of the subsidy regime, this is actually easy to understand once you figure in the cost of BRIBES in the pricing of fuel. Bribes are an IMMUTABLE REALITY in nation states with weak foundations.

My inquiries on this subsidy issue have been eye opening. I talked and I'm still in contact with a senior executive at Shell who at a point was manager of gas operations, I know an investment executive who is trying to assemble financing for a private refinery...... It was this lady who made me understand the role of pricing, to the extent that while some misguided people were castigating Nigeria for failing to build new refineries where Niger Republic had done so, I immediately knew and PREDICTED that the fuel produced would be sold at FREE MARKET prices. Of course all the critics ran away from the thread rather than continue the discourse and learn.....yeah, I sought out a manager at SINOPEC, and also spoke to some petrol station owners, one of whom is a member of govt. Also I lived in and I still live in an oil producing community.....not a native, but I have many good friends. The son of a Yoruba Oba who invests in marginal oil wells has also been a good source. Several people have speculated as to how I seem to know or speak confidently about certain things. I asked. Anyone who wants to know the facts should simply ask around their village and they will surely find someone who can direct them to a source.

So let's examine refineries. From what I've been told, there are 3 main issues preventing investment into new refining capacity by the private sector. My own thinking leads me to believe they apply even to new govt refineries:

1 Pricing of the final products

2 Source of crude ....I know, I was surprised too. Same reason Nigeria, one of the largest producers of natural gas, can't supply it gas power stations lol

3 Financing....won't come until the first two factors are taken care of.

The real interesting one is source of crude. Many....I bet most....of these licensees have failed to get financing because they can't guarantee a source of feedstock, that is, crude oil.

When I heard this I made a comment that there are multiple oil companies who should be competing to supply crude to refiners. I was wrong, it turns out that the NNPC is (senior) partner on every oil producing block in Nigeria and it must sign off on any agreement to supply crude to anyone. So some of the refinery investors haven't been able to get NNPC to sign. THIS IS A CLASSIC RESULT OF HAVING A NON PROFIT SEEKING MONOPOLY.

It gets more interesting. Last Sunday, in conversation with this investment executive, she mentioned that they and other investors have been called into meetings and put under pressure by the FG to start building their refineries. Still the NNPC and DPR won't budge.

Why? It seems that if the FG wants these refiners to sell their eventual product at regulated prices, which logically means that the NNPC must get their partners (Chevron, Mobil, Total) to sell the crude at lower than market pricing. Incidentally, this is the same reason oil companies are reluctant to sell their gas domestically and forced Nigeria to let them preferentially export, ie the monopoly controler of gas in Nigeria, the NGC, sets subsidized low prices for the domestic sale of gas! The investor I spoke told me though that her clients are not demanding concessionary pricing. I asked how come and she said the refiners could still make money even if they had to buy from NNPC at regular price and sell at even N65. I disagreed and said that as long as fuel sold at 160 in neighbouring countries, it would be smuggled out, to which she replied that is the FG's problem.

I admit I didn't quite get the gist of it, but my interpretation is that these refiners will take the place of importers and thus take the subsidy that will enable them sell at N65, or the refiners will do what the officials at NNPC DO NOW....TAKE BRIBES UNDER THE TABLE to sell cheap subsidized fuel to retailers. This makes sense because of something else she said, that NNPC officials might be trying to frustrate them because the are in collaboration with current fuel importers, the so called cabal. Anyway, the only solution they've come up with to get around all this is to propose that they import crude oil to feed their new refineries! LoooooL, I kid you not! This is a serious proposal currently being bandied around between govt and investors! And get this....it has happened before!

Let's not forget the root cause of all this- the monopoly power of the FGN, DPR and NNPC placed in the hands of appointed officials who have no capital at risk, people who will still get paid even if the decide not to sell their product!

A reasonable person can envisage a natural solution to all this crap. One of the oil compnies just struck oil in commercial quantities late last year around Oru area and Ikeduru in Imo State. One of my contacts offered to take me to the Oru site, unfortunately my wives insisted they must have me for the weekend. Now suppose these communities were allowed to own these oil well, it is actually theirs except for the govt theft codified in the
Land Use Act and Petroleum Act....
Do you think they woul rather sit on it than sell it to local refiners? Just on the basis of competition, isn't it better to have multiple owners of oil fields?
Markets abhor monopolies, there will always be potential competitive suppliers no matter how long it takes. Even Microsoft has competing operating systems. And nature has taken its course in the East. Where is Papadonkee?

Let's keep going. I just saw on Channel news a few minutes ago that fuel distributors are protesting at the PH depot of the PPMC(?), one of the NNPC's spawn of monopolies. One of the protesting fuel buyers said and I quote " I've made my deposit since last Oct and still they won't let me load"

In his defense one of the depot officials said "many of these people don't own any petrol stations, they don't qualify to buy"

Maybe the poor guy didn't pay the bribe required.....wanna bet?

Let's review this situation again. Nigeria has only on e supplier of fuel.
They have a low official price which attracts so many people that you have to pay bribe to get the fuel. And it is illegal for anyone else to supply this market unless you get a license from this same monopoly supplier! So let's say the manager of this depot wants to sell, he will likely sell to his family member (nepotism), his tribesman (tribalism) or somene who gave him a bribe (corruption/rent seeking)

Anyway, since the PH depot is rationing their supply for whatever reason, we know why there is shortage in the East and I had to buy PMS at N130 in Aba today. And what if the petrol station owner I bought from today didn't have the connections or the money to pay an upfront bribe, where would he get his supply from? WHERE IS PAPADONKEE?

SUCH A PETROL STATION OWNER WOULD GET HIS SUPPLY FROM THE HUNDREDS OF "ILLEGAL" REFINERIES OPERATIING IN THE FORESTS AND JUNGLES OF THE OIL PRODUCING AREAS!

Where do these refiners get their supply of crude? Take a guess lol!

There's a thread somewhere that Lalakakofe started reporting that 7% of Nigerias crude oil is now being stolen and I can tell you from first hand knowledge that the crude is mostly being taken by the natives and inhabitants of the oil producing areas.

So here we have a FG that has stolen oil wells from the natural owners and awards the revenues to people whose only qualification is the know someone or come from the relevant political background. Those people demand bribes in order to sell the products (crude oil and fuel) govt handed over to them to sell at controlled prices. Because they have no ownership stake they don't have an incentive to increase supply.

Meanwhile the owners of the wells put in the effort and time to obtain the product and are willing to sell to all comers.

Who is actually servicing the economy? Here again, just like with the Civil War, the East is teaching the rest of the country a forward looking lesson. Maybe we need another oil war for the lesson to sink in.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Obugi
Mar 5, 2012, 06:40 PM
Mikky Jaga,


Why then, do we not clamour for the dissolution of the artificial nation rather than the call for deregulation of corruption which less government, in this instance will mean.

In Nigeria, there is no anti monopoly law. Anybody can corner as much of the Nation's wealth as he possibly can and thereby hold even the government to ransom. These are some of the checks and balances in places where deregulated economy works

We should either dissolve this artificial Nation that engenders corruption or patch on with a welfarist State where the very poor are not exposed unduly to the harsh realities of crude capitalism.

You call for measures to dismantle monopolies yet you have been arguing for govt regulation of prices. I think those are contradictory positions to hold.

Obugi

Ajibs
Mar 5, 2012, 06:42 PM
Obugi
That is a lot to take in and as we have been saying, Government needs no matter how imperfect to get out to the oil industry and regulate only. NNPC is making a killing in that country.

I have a question for your circle of insiders, simple, what do they think about the PIB law, the FG is trying to enact? Will it make any difference?

Big-K
Mar 5, 2012, 07:17 PM
Reuben Abati explained this issue in detail in our podcast yesterday. Headline stuff worth waiting for.

Obugi
Mar 5, 2012, 08:08 PM
NAR,


Obugi
That is a lot to take in and as we have been saying, Government needs no matter how imperfect to get out to the oil industry and regulate only. NNPC is making a killing in that country.

I have a question for your circle of insiders, simple, what do they think about the PIB law, the FG is trying to enact? Will it make any difference?

Sorry for the lengthy comment. I get exercised on this issue because the wrong being done is so clear yet people pretend not to understand.

My friend the REAL ISSUE at stake is sovereignity...freedom....and such things. Govt regulation is an instrument being used to STEAL from oil producing areas. There are soldiers all over the Delta enforcing the "laws" that enable Otedola and Tinubu to "own" oil blocks.

The economics of it is bad enough, but for Africans to boldly insist on killing their fellow Africans for cheap fuel is beyond pardon and that is what people insisting on subsidized fuel are really saying should continue. No one has yet explained why it is that the people/person in an Ogoni village or farmland containing an oil well shouldn't own the well and decide who to partner with to drill it or whether to just leave it alone. Are we this far gone that we can't even stand up for simple, common sense morals? How is this any different from the Whites stealing land in Southern Africa?

I asked the SINOPEC fellow and he said as soon as the law is passed, indigeneous operators in the oil sector will be strengthened, that he and some friends will leave and form their own oil service firm.

My investor lady said it doesn't matter much to her. I remember a conversation we had at the time Ghana struck oil and she said what African countries need is a law banning the export of crude oil, that only refined products should be exported. Hmmm, I'll ask her again.

My personal opinion is that the surest sign the PIB will be a good thing for the owners of the oil is the reaction of the USA and EU. If they were threatening to impose sanctions, then it's a winner for Africans. Their relative silence says it all.

Go check out what happened about 8yrs ago in Congo Brazzaville. See what France and the US did to a govt that threatened to advance African interests.

Same reason Zimbabwe is under sanctions and South Africa is not.

I smell another insurgency coming in the Delta. I know I predicted it in the runup to the subsidy removal that there will will be trouble if the subsidy is retained. People get ready.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Nigeria on my mind
Mar 6, 2012, 04:16 AM
Kemet,

The demise of Okada air, the moribund condition of M.K.O. Abiola's enterprises (thanks to N.A.R., staunch proponent of privatization for those pieces of information), and the near failure of A.A. Chachanji's airline, belie your faith in Nigerians' capacity for the free market system. Years after the regulation of the airline industry, arrival and departure times at some Nigerian airports are still written in chalk. The innovation that competition spurs in the free market system, should have inspired the aforementioned companies to greater achievement. But they reckoned without a fiercer and inescapable competitor - the Nigerian factor. So long as this dream-killing hogoblin pervades our land, our plans and projects will continue to deviate from predictions dictated by experience and common sense.



My friend the REAL ISSUE at stake is sovereignity...freedom....and such things. Govt regulation is an instrument being used to STEAL from oil producing areas. There are soldiers all over the Delta enforcing the "laws" that enable Otedola and Tinubu to "own" oil blocks.

The economics of it is bad enough, but for Africans to boldly insist on killing their fellow Africans for cheap fuel is beyond pardon and that is what people insisting on subsidized fuel are really saying should continue. No one has yet explained why it is that the people/person in an Ogoni village or farmland containing an oil well shouldn't own the well and decide who to partner with to drill it or whether to just leave it alone. Are we this far gone that we can't even stand up for simple, common sense morals? How is this any different from the Whites stealing land in Southern Africa?
!Get Yours!
Obugi

You seem to be advocating an economic system that dispenses with virtually all forms of government involvement, including the regulatory functions that your ally in this discussion, N.A.R., strongly favors. Doesn't national interest and pragmatism obligate us to treat oil as a strategic commodity, and to protect its production and distribution from the vagaries of the free market? Is it really prudent to expose oil production and distribution to the same market forces dominant over non-strategic commodities such as shoes and cocoyams?

And are you as liberally disposed to the control of non-mineral resources? If me and a couple of my fellow tribesmen collaborate to develop tanks, drones and ballistic missiles, would you be equally amenable to non-government interference in our pursuits? If we undertook to sell these armaments to interested foreign parties, would you support our right to do so, or would you favor a suppression of our enterprise under the aegis of national security? Would you support the indigens of the oil producing areas if they were agitating for the right to sell their locally made armaments, rather than oil? And please don't tell me that no parallels exist between my hypothetical scenarios and your example, because I see no distinctions between natural resources buried under the ground and those resident within the cranial cavity.

And before you invite N.A.R. to your hut to drink palm wine in celebration of his epiphany regarding the subsidy removal, I think you should press him to specify the form that the government regulation he supports should take.

The bottom line is that oil is a strategic resource. I agree that tribes in the neighborhood of the oil wells should benefit the most from its extraction. And I despise the tribalism that invests non-indigens of the oil producing areas with the wealth that the indigens in the oil producing areas have the most legitimate claim to. I disagree, however, that they are entitled to full, unconstrained control of the oil wells. If they desire such a circumstance, they must rescind their membership in the Nigerian union and seek complete autonomy.

Oil is not an ordinary commodity. And it shouldn't be subject to the same economic and regulatory factors applicable to generic goods.

Obugi
Mar 6, 2012, 06:12 AM
NOMM,

I'm thankful that you touched on the most important aspect of the discussion - the right of the tribes of the Niger Delta or any other part of Nigeria to decide the nature of their nationhood, what their relationship with other Nigerians and Africans should be. THIS IS THE REAL BASIC ISSUE, that everyone is in Nigeria by force for the economic convenience of Western nations.

The designation of oil located in Ogoniland as strategic should be something the Ogoni people should have a choice in. It's not Yoruba or Fulani people who should be making the decisions for them.

Yes, if any tribe in Nigeria decides to start selling arms abroad, they must be allowed to. Reason - only REAL NATIONS have a right to regulate and Nigeria doesn't yet qualify.

To make it clear, if I don't believe Nigeria has any right to stop a Yoruba company from selling arms or anything else abroad, but I believe an independent Yoruba Oduduwa nation has such a right.

Nigeria isn't yet independent and you know it. All these decisions about oil and the potential ones about say arms sales are taken in London & Washington. Nigeria is a colony.

Your bit on the competence of Nigerian businesses and air transport industry in particular makes some sense, but note that our airports are still govt owned. Even in America and Europe airlines have a hard time.

Also African businesses in general operate in a world market where the rules are officially written against them. Did you read of the recent spat between Arik and British Airways?

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 6, 2012, 08:42 AM
Mikky Jaga,

You call for measures to dismantle monopolies yet you have been arguing for govt regulation of prices. I think those are contradictory positions to hold.

Obugi

It is apparent you only listen to your4self. That is why you keep going round in circles. The answer to your query lies in the quote you pretend to respond to.

I repeat the relevant part here!


We should either dissolve this artificial Nation that engenders corruption or patch on with a welfarist State where the very poor are not exposed unduly to the harsh realities of crude capitalism.

Obugi
Mar 6, 2012, 09:25 AM
Mikky Jaga,

Isn't it sad that I have to reoeat myself so much just to impress upon you some very simple truths? It's worth it as you seem to be getting the point.

Oh, I did read your last comment, you need to know that AN EFFICIENT, CLEAN WELFARIST GOVERNMENT IS IMPOSSIBLE IN FAKE NATION STATES LIKE NIGERIA. To say we have a choice to build such a state is A BIG LIE.

There is no basis for Nigerians to care for their common welfare...no religious, ethnic or cultural basis. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

If you were in charge of hiring at a welfarist, monopoly refining company like NNPC that has no profit motive, which would be more important for you, tribe or competence? Would your attitude be different if you OWNED the NNPC?

So your second choice is non existent in the Nigeria we have today. The REAL choice is either dissolve the federation or implement complete deregulation in every sector, or at least make the free market the default economic policy.

Enough of the platitudes abeg. The oil doesn't belong to you and your people and the only way you get it cheap is by killing Ijaw, Annang, Ogoni and other natives of the Niger Delta. Like OBJ did in Odi. Concern for the poor has nothing to do with it.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 6, 2012, 10:24 AM
So your second choice is non existent in the Nigeria we have today. The REAL choice is either dissolve the federation or implement complete deregulation in every sector, or at least make the free market the default economic policy.

Nigeria has been practicing free market since independence, what has it got out of it? Obafemi Awolowo practiced welfarism when the Regions were still in existence, it worked. Free market will not work where corruption thrives as it is in Nigeria today.

It took the House Probe to expose what corruption does in a situation of deregulated economy. When NNPC was the sole importer of refined products into the country, we were told it was NNPC's monopoly that was responsible for fuel scarcity. Importation of fuel was deregulated and briefcase importers surfaced to collect subsidies for fuel not imported.

Nigeria is hopeless. It must be dismantled. But before then, government must take responsibility for its inability to tackle corruption by paying Nigerians as much as it pays the corrupt people it knows but cannot handle.

agensheku
Mar 6, 2012, 12:37 PM
Nigeria has been practicing free market since independence, what has it got out of it? Obafemi Awolowo practiced welfarism when the Regions were still in existence, it worked. Free market will not work where corruption thrives as it is in Nigeria today.

It took the House Probe to expose what corruption does in a situation of deregulated economy. When NNPC was the sole importer of refined products into the country, we were told it was NNPC's monopoly that was responsible for fuel scarcity. Importation of fuel was deregulated and briefcase importers surfaced to collect subsidies for fuel not imported.

Nigeria is hopeless. It must be dismantled. But before then, government must take responsibility for its inability to tackle corruption by paying Nigerians as much as it pays the corrupt people it knows but cannot handle.

The fuel was imported, but re-routed to Cotonou waters and brought in piecemeal for dollars-payment sake. Just last week,government banned over 40 brief-case importers to preempt the outcome of House probe into fuel subsidy!

tonsoyo
Mar 6, 2012, 12:51 PM
I am tired of our back and forth on this. N.A.R is more interested in defending Jonathan administration that he lost the basic duty of a government as a social contract and a for-profit organization.
Obugi has been skirting around the truth of our oil industry so long that he has completely lost what the reality is and has become comfortable with making conjectures based on his interpretation of the peripheral observations. He once wrote on this thread that because oil is discharge in Lagos most is consumed in Lagos, I just laughed. Oil is distributed based on allocation rather than location. Granted that some sell off their allocation but that is not restricted to Lagos.

When OBJ dumped the refineries on Dangote and co, it was the same ND people that went up in arms saying over our dead bodies. Let me make it crystal clear here that Nigeria being a monolithic economy it is practically impossible for government to get out of the only resources that sustains the nation. Refineries are really not a lucrative business, most investors are in it for allied services or for incentives, it is the same way for the government of Nigeria.

It is worthless arguing with Obugi, he got carried away by whatever he thinks he know.

My solution to all these crises based on my experience still lies in tacit decentralization of the operation just like everything Nigeria. What do I mean?

The 400,000 barrels of crude oil set aside daily for domestic consumption should be divided into six and allocated to the six geographical zones of Nigeria.

Let those who want to drink theirs drink it, let those who want to exchange it for refine product do so, let those who have the capacity to refine and do the proper pricing for their zones do so,.let those who want to smuggle theirs across the borders do so!

This way we can simultaneously experiment with all our suggestions here, it will encourage competition, it will expose irresponsible zones, it will free up the federal government from bothering on local consumption and deal only with export. Let us KILL this unproductive centralization of inefficiency.

If this recommendation is followed, we would be glad we did.

Obugi
Mar 6, 2012, 01:32 PM
Tonsoyo,



Obugi has been skirting around the truth of our oil industry so long that he has completely lost what the reality is and has become comfortable with making conjectures based on his interpretation of the peripheral observations. He once wrote on this thread that because oil is discharge in Lagos most is consumed in Lagos, I just laughed. Oil is distributed based on allocation rather than location. Granted that some sell off their allocation but that is not restricted to Lagos.

When OBJ dumped the refineries on Dangote and co, it was the same ND people that went up in arms saying over our dead bodies. Let me make it crystal clear here that Nigeria being a monolithic economy it is practically impossible for government to get out of the only resources that sustains the nation. Refineries are really not a lucrative business, most investors are in it for allied services or for incentives, it is the same way for the government of Nigeria.

It is worthless arguing with Obugi, he got carried away by whatever he thinks he know.

My solution to all these crises based on my experience still lies in tacit decentralization of the operation just like everything Nigeria. What do I mean?

The 400,000 barrels of crude oil set aside daily for domestic consumption should be divided into six and allocated to the six geographical zones of Nigeria.

Let those who want to drink theirs drink it, let those who want to exchange it for refine product do so, let those who have the capacity to refine and do the proper pricing for their zones do so,.let those who want to smuggle theirs across the borders do so!

This way we can simultaneously experiment with all our suggestions here, it will encourage competition, it will expose irresponsible zones, it will free up the federal government from bothering on local consumption and deal only with export. Let us KILL this unproductive centralization of inefficiency.

If this recommendation is followed, we would be glad we did.

Under this your plan the Fed Govt would have to decide how much free or subsidized fuel goes to each zone.
The FG has to decide this because according to you "it is impossible to get the govt out of the only resource that sustains the nation" What a shame.

You're here advocating the sharing of crude oil belonging to other people!
A better solution is let every ethnic group or village or individual keep what is on their land and do whatever they want with it in a free market and pay an agreed tax to the FG. THIS IS THE ONLY JUST SOLUTION. You know this but you just can't keep away from that Niger Delta crude, can you? Just keep killing those yeye Ijaw people and stealing that oil, if they talk too much turn their homeland into a parking lot, not so? How much cocoa beans from Yoruba land should be shared among the regions?

Na you biko! Fellow Nigerians, indeed!

! Get Yours !
Obugi

agensheku
Mar 6, 2012, 01:40 PM
I am tired of our back and forth on this. N.A.R is more interested in defending Jonathan administration that he lost the basic duty of a government as a social contract and a for-profit organization.
Obugi has been skirting around the truth of our oil industry so long that he has completely lost what the reality is and has become comfortable with making conjectures based on his interpretation of the peripheral observations. He once wrote on this thread that because oil is discharge in Lagos most is consumed in Lagos, I just laughed. Oil is distributed based on allocation rather than location. Granted that some sell off their allocation but that is not restricted to Lagos.

When OBJ dumped the refineries on Dangote and co, it was the same ND people that went up in arms saying over our dead bodies. Let me make it crystal clear here that Nigeria being a monolithic economy it is practically impossible for government to get out of the only resources that sustains the nation. Refineries are really not a lucrative business, most investors are in it for allied services or for incentives, it is the same way for the government of Nigeria.

It is worthless arguing with Obugi, he got carried away by whatever he thinks he know.

My solution to all these crises based on my experience still lies in tacit decentralization of the operation just like everything Nigeria. What do I mean?

The 400,000 barrels of crude oil set aside daily for domestic consumption should be divided into six and allocated to the six geographical zones of Nigeria.

Let those who want to drink theirs drink it, let those who want to exchange it for refine product do so, let those who have the capacity to refine and do the proper pricing for their zones do so,.let those who want to smuggle theirs across the borders do so!

This way we can simultaneously experiment with all our suggestions here, it will encourage competition, it will expose irresponsible zones, it will free up the federal government from bothering on local consumption and deal only with export. Let us KILL this unproductive centralization of inefficiency.

If this recommendation is followed, we would be glad we did.

Are you forgetting this is Nija? Look at monthly financial allocations to states. People like Ibori will just pay staff salaries and use the rest like panadol!:biggrin: A place like Lagos will grind to a halt for insufficient fuel while border states like Ogun, Kwara, Rivers, Bayelsa will gladly sell off their allocations while those in charge share the money and the nation grinds to a halt.

I may be stuck in the past, but I think we must not wait until people like Tam David-West die before we begin to ask how they did it in their own time that there were no fuel queues or frauds.:thinking:

denker
Mar 6, 2012, 02:02 PM
The 400,000 barrels of crude oil set aside daily for domestic consumption should be divided into six and allocated to the six geographical zones of Nigeria.

mallam tonsoyo,....dont ya think is too early to start with consumption of Ogogoro.....nawah..hat off to you, ma dear....indeed.

Obugi
Mar 6, 2012, 03:18 PM
Agens,

A light shines in the east....chineke, is this you finally realizing that govt regulation and allocation and other control ultimately breed corruption?

You're getting there. It's not that difficult.

How about letting anyone who owns crude oil sell to any person or entity that wishes to buy any quantity they need at whatever price they agree on? Very unique idea, I know!

*sigh*

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Ajibs
Mar 6, 2012, 03:48 PM
I am tired of our back and forth on this. N.A.R is more interested in defending Jonathan administration that he lost the basic duty of a government as a social contract and a for-profit organization.
Obugi has been skirting around the truth of our oil industry so long that he has completely lost what the reality is and has become comfortable with making conjectures based on his interpretation of the peripheral observations. He once wrote on this thread that because oil is discharge in Lagos most is consumed in Lagos, I just laughed. Oil is distributed based on allocation rather than location. Granted that some sell off their allocation but that is not restricted to Lagos.

When OBJ dumped the refineries on Dangote and co, it was the same ND people that went up in arms saying over our dead bodies. Let me make it crystal clear here that Nigeria being a monolithic economy it is practically impossible for government to get out of the only resources that sustains the nation. Refineries are really not a lucrative business, most investors are in it for allied services or for incentives, it is the same way for the government of Nigeria.

It is worthless arguing with Obugi, he got carried away by whatever he thinks he know.

My solution to all these crises based on my experience still lies in tacit decentralization of the operation just like everything Nigeria. What do I mean?

The 400,000 barrels of crude oil set aside daily for domestic consumption should be divided into six and allocated to the six geographical zones of Nigeria.

Let those who want to drink theirs drink it, let those who want to exchange it for refine product do so, let those who have the capacity to refine and do the proper pricing for their zones do so,.let those who want to smuggle theirs across the borders do so!

This way we can simultaneously experiment with all our suggestions here, it will encourage competition, it will expose irresponsible zones, it will free up the federal government from bothering on local consumption and deal only with export. Let us KILL this unproductive centralization of inefficiency.

If this recommendation is followed, we would be glad we did.

Tonsoyo,
You are the not the only one that is tired, I am tired but you guys can keep dancing around in circles. But I know soon, the dance with end.

Look my dear man, if the Nigerian Federal Government gets the heck out of the oil industry tomorrow, as we have stated, Nigeria will not die. And if it does, it should make you even happier as you and others like Mikky Jaja have been repeatedly advocating for the death of the country anyway. So why not hasten the demise? And then people who have oil will have their oil and all others will find their way on their own.

Your solution to split the 400,000 barrels into six regions as you know is a DOA proposal. That is a make me shine proposal. Where do you get 400,000 barrels from? Who tells you that is enough or not too much? What statistics are you using?

As you know, officially, six regions in Nigeria do not exist. The Nigerian Constitution says nothing about six regions. If you want to do that then 36 states is what we have. Or make the regions official.

Most of your arguments are not factual, they are emotional. As a sample of the facts that exist on this issue we have, unless you all can prove otherwise or disprove these facts:

The three refineries in Nigeria today are incapable of producing refined products to meet local demand. This is the official position of the NNPC and has been before GEJ became president. FACT

Past Nigerian governments have failed to maintain the refineries in top condition and this is the reason for their current dismal condition and inability to operate at installed capacities. FACT

Several previous government have ALL said the refineries are being refurbished and will return to operations at full capacity. We have heard this since the days of Abacha, to date this has not happened. FACT

The current and past Nigerian governments have embarked upon the importation of refined products to meet local demand. FACT

The current government, right or wrong has decided it will like to minimize its direct stake and how it operates in the oil industry. As the legitimate government in power it can constitutional make that choice. FACT

Corruption and profligacy of the Nigerian government within the oil sector and other government institutions ALSO did not start with the GEJ administration. FACT

Likewise, the people who voted the government into power, retain their legitimate and democratic right to oppose the government policy and this was done via the January protests and continues within and outside the country. FACT

If you as a Nigerian do not like what the current government has done, you also retain your legitimate and democratic right to vote them out of office, at the expiration of their term, or take other actions as prescribed within the constitution to remove them from office today. If you do not believe in the constitution, as person born within or living in Nigeria, you can also figure out a way to get to your goals via other means, hopefully legal ones. FACT

These again are some of the facts. There are many more. We have discussed a lot of the over all these threads. Try and stick to the facts and forget the emotion. Also recognize that in such matters it certainly cannot be, your way or the highway.

If you want to be in opposition, be in opposition. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't expect me to just agree with you because you think you are right.

Ajibs
Mar 6, 2012, 03:59 PM
Then when you end with this, nah wondament catch me finish...


This way we can simultaneously experiment with all our suggestions here, it will encourage competition, it will expose irresponsible zones, it will free up the federal government from bothering on local consumption and deal only with export. Let us KILL this unproductive centralization of inefficiency.

Is this not why we are arguing that the FG should get out of the centralized monopoly of its position in the oil sector??? Dang you guys are just making me scratch my head at your dancing in circles.

You don't like Nigerian government, yet you want them to keep subsidizing PMS and Kero...

You think they are inefficient and corrupt, yet you want these same people to build new refineries...

You think the oil sector is vital to the Nigerian economy, yet you want the same unproductive and inefficient people to keep running the exports of this vital sector...

I don tire!

Mikky jaga
Mar 6, 2012, 04:49 PM
Then when you end with this, nah wondament catch me finish...



Is this not why we are arguing that the FG should get out of the centralized monopoly of its position in the oil sector??? Dang you guys are just making me scratch my head at your dancing in circles.

You don't like Nigerian government, yet you want them to keep subsidizing PMS and Kero...

You think they are inefficient and corrupt, yet you want these same people to build new refineries...

You think the oil sector is vital to the Nigerian economy, yet you want the same unproductive and inefficient people to keep running the exports of this vital sector...

I don tire!

Before I address your 'facts' let me quickly address this.

The government must build refineries and ensure fuel gets to Nigerians at the cheapest price possible. The reason is simple. The government has abdicated its responsibilities to the citizenry in nearly every other sector. The 'cheap' fuel is the only way Nigerians feel the presence of government.

The alternative you propose is not viable. The private sector is the reason the government is not working. Handling the commanding height of the economy - oil sector to them is to give them a field day to express their corrupt tendencies to the fullest. No Nigerian thinks of any collective. Everyone thinks of how to corner the common wealth to his pocket. The private sector will not run the oil industry better than what it is now. What they did when NNPC allowed them to participate in fuel importation is a pointer to this.

Mikky jaga
Mar 6, 2012, 05:03 PM
Now to your 'facts'


Tonsoyo,
The three refineries in Nigeria today are incapable of producing refined products to meet local demand. This is the official position of the NNPC and has been before GEJ became president. FACT

There are no figures to back this up. The fact is that none in government or NNPC knows how much fuel Nigeria consumes.


Past Nigerian governments have failed to maintain the refineries in top condition and this is the reason for their current dismal condition and inability to operate at installed capacities. FACT

Several previous government have ALL said the refineries are being refurbished and will return to operations at full capacity. We have heard this since the days of Abacha, to date this has not happened. FACT

The current and past Nigerian governments have embarked upon the importation of refined products to meet local demand. FACT

Same problem here. Nobody knows how much fuel Nigeria needs how much is produced locally and how much the shortfall is. The government is only busy importing fuel because it is an avenue to share money.


The current government, right or wrong has decided it will like to minimize its direct stake and how it operates in the oil industry. As the legitimate government in power it can constitutional make that choice. FACT

The fact is that the government is not minimizing anything. Whether full or partial deregulation, the government still fixes prices. Whether N167 or N97 it is still government fixing prices by fiat.

Corruption and profligacy of the Nigerian government within the oil sector and other government institutions ALSO did not start with the GEJ administration. FACT

Likewise, the people who voted the government into power, retain their legitimate and democratic right to oppose the government policy and this was done via the January protests and continues within and outside the country. FACT

If you as a Nigerian do not like what the current government has done, you also retain your legitimate and democratic right to vote them out of office, at the expiration of their term, or take other actions as prescribed within the constitution to remove them from office today. If you do not believe in the constitution, as person born within or living in Nigeria, you can also figure out a way to get to your goals via other means, hopefully legal ones. FACT


Rhe other 'facts' I did not comment on are not relevant to the present discussion.

Ajibs
Mar 6, 2012, 05:10 PM
Before I address your 'facts' let me quickly address this.

The government must build refineries and ensure fuel gets to Nigerians at the cheapest price possible. The reason is simple. The government has abdicated its responsibilities to the citizenry in nearly every other sector. The 'cheap' fuel is the only way Nigerians feel the presence of government.

The alternative you propose is not viable. The private sector is the reason the government is not working. Handling the commanding height of the economy - oil sector to them is to give them a field day to express their corrupt tendencies to the fullest. No Nigerian thinks of any collective. Everyone thinks of how to corner the common wealth to his pocket. The private sector will not run the oil industry better than what it is now. What they did when NNPC allowed them to participate in fuel importation is a pointer to this.

MJ,
You post above relates to a failure of regulation not the private sector. We must face the facts, no one is honest juts for the heck of being honest.

NNPC needs to be trimmed down to execute its regulatory role efficiently, not at the same time be a partner in the industry and also a regulator.

How can the left hand regulate what the right hand is doing?

When NNPC benefits 55% or more form the oils that gets spilled into the Delta why would they the regulate the spillage?

What is NNPC contributing to get its 55% of crude oil production?

Ajibs
Mar 6, 2012, 05:28 PM
Now to your 'facts'



Rhe other 'facts' I did not comment on are not relevant to the present discussion.

MJ,
Sorry sir, I can't just take your word to dispel the widely known facts so you need to provide some proof that the government is just importing fuel in order to share money. And also lying about the state of the refineries we have. Now you can dispute my facts, which I get from the media, the HOR investigation and the NNPC website. And a host of other online resources.

So let me ask you a direct question: When did Nigeria start refined petroleum products importation?

On the NNPC website, they just gave Warri Refinery just won the "best perfoming refinery" for operating at 60% Capacity. So what capacity are the others?

As for Port Harcourt:


PH refineries to work at full capacity November (http://www.nnpcgroup.com/PublicRelations/NNPCinthenews/tabid/92/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/343/PH-refineries-to-work-at-full-capacity-November.aspx)

Port Harcourt Refineries are expected to work optimally from October this year after a Turn-Around Maintenance (TAM), the NNPC has announced. Group Executive Director, Refining and Petrochemicals, Engr Philip Chukwu, said this in Port Harcourt recently during an inspection of the refineries with officials of Maire Tecnimont, the contractors which the Federal Government engaged for the TAM. Chukwu, who decried the lack of maintenance of the twin Port Harcourt refineries in the last 12 years, commended the Federal Government for engaging the original constructors of the refineries for the TAM, the Chiyoda Group of Japan. "Everyone knows that the refineries have not been properly maintained over the years and we have had to manage things. What we are doing now is to have the TAM and complete rehabilitation of the refineries by the original contractors," he said.

The two Port Harcourt refineries, which consist of the old refinery with capacity to process 60, 000 b/d and 150, 000 b/d, respectively, had been functioning at low capacity with the old one not working at the moment because of lack of maintenance. Chukwu explained that the TAM, which would start in October, would require a total shutdown of the plants for between 45 days and 60 days to ensure a thorough job. He said the TAM and rehabilitation process would also entail overhauling the supply chain and pipelines that bring crude oil and capacity building for staff so as to meet international best practice.

He said the NNPC was also working with all stakeholders, including security operatives, to ensure the pipelines were safe and no longer vandalised. PHRC Managing Director, Engr Anthony U. Ogbuigwe, in his remarks after taking the contractors round the plants expressed optimism that the refinery would begin to work at 90 per cent capacity by November this year. He said preliminary work on the TAM started since late 2010 and the present stage would signal the return to full production of the refineries. He said that the NNPC had already placed order for all the equipment necessary for the TAM, noting that the inspection by the management of the construction company would help to fast-track the whole process.

Managing Director, Maire Tecnimont Group of Italy, Mr Roberto Bertocco, said in his remarks that the company which had been on ground in Nigeria for the past 30 years would be working with JGC Engineering, Japan, original builders of the refinery. "I can assure you of a very good job on this project. We have been working with JGC in many parts of the world, so we are also collaborating with them on this project because we have been on ground in Nigeria for the past 30 years," he said. He expressed optimism that the refineries would be working at full capacity by the end of the year. It would be recalled that the old Port Harcourt refinery was built in 1965 with an initial capacity of 35,000 b/d which was later expanded to 60,000 bpd in 1972. The new wing of the refinery was built in 1989 with a 150,000 b/d capacity to meet local consumption of petroleum products and for export.A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) is expected to be signed between the management of Maire Tecnimont, the Minister of Petroleum Resources, Mrs Dieziani Allison-Madueke and NNPC officials in Abuja.
17/02/2012


WRPC BEST COMPANY OF THE YEAR 2010/2011 - - - GMD (http://www.nnpcgroup.com/PublicRelations/NNPCinthenews/tabid/92/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/338/WRPC-BEST-COMPANY-OF-THE-YEAR-20102011----GMD.aspx)

The Group Managing Director of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC), Engineer Austen Oniwon says the Warri Refinery and Petrochemical Company (WRPC) is the best performing company among the three refineries in the country.

The GMD made the remarks at the graduation ceremony of Chief Officers Management Development Programme (COMDP) in Abuja.

He said WRPC performed creditably well above the other two refineries having operated under the same conditions during the period under review.

According to the GMD, performing Strategic Business Units (SBU's) or Corporate Strategic Units (CSU's) will henceforth be recognized and rewarded as way to encourage the staff to do more.

The GMD urged the staff and management of the WRPC to maintain a high level of efficiency in its operations and for other SBU's and CSU's to emulate.

He said the WRPC would soon under-go full rehabilitation to operate at 90 per cent capacity above its current performance of 60 per cent.

"We are beginning to record improvement in the performance of the refineries and more attention would now be focused on the refineries to operate based on international standard", the GMD noted.

"We have President and Honourable Minister of Petroleum Resources Dr. Diezani Allison-Madueke who both supports the NNPC and therefore we cannot afford to fail, we must succeed", Engineer Oniwon stated.

Engineer Oniwon implored the graduates to remain focus and move the NNPC to great height.

Earlier, the Group General Manager, Human resources, Chris Osarumwense enjoined the graduates to utilize skills acquired during the programme to impact positively on NNPC's activities.

And have you asked how many donkey years ago was it calculated that Nigeria needs 445,000 barrels for local consumption? And what consumption do we need today?

This is why I did not bother with the figures of what we consume. As indeed nobody knows! But, the crux of the matter is local refinery production is not satisfying local demand. That we know.

And we do not know who sabotaged the refineries if that is you assertion. If you do, spill the beans!

Mikky jaga
Mar 6, 2012, 05:53 PM
Never mind. All these many words prove nothing. The people robbing Nigeria blind are bent on getting their full pound of flesh. Hence the current fuel scarcity. The only thing apparent is that GEJ is not interested in stopping them. Full Stop.

Ajibs
Mar 6, 2012, 06:00 PM
Never mind. All these many words prove nothing. The people robbing Nigeria blind are bent on getting their full pound of flesh. Hence the current fuel scarcity. The only thing apparent is that GEJ is not interested in stopping them. Full Stop.

Okay, no problem, yes the talk is tiring indeed.

But the story on PH refinery is what I have also been arguing. Now come November if we see that PHRC is not operation at 90 capacity as we have now been promised what do we do about it?

What does NLC / TUC / PEGNASSAN / NUPENG do about it? We have also been told up there that even the 60% WPRC will be at 90% also, when is soon?

What happens if after PHRC and WPRC are back on and operating at 90% will importation stop? Who is going to check that? Are we going to ask GEJ to check himself?

Obugi
Mar 6, 2012, 06:37 PM
NAR,


Then when you end with this, nah wondament catch me finish.

Is this not why we are arguing that the FG should get out of the centralized monopoly of its position in the oil sector??? Dang you guys are just making me scratch my head at your dancing in circles.

You don't like Nigerian government, yet you want them to keep subsidizing PMS and Kero...

You think they are inefficient and corrupt, yet you want these same people to build new refineries...

You think the oil sector is vital to the Nigerian economy, yet you want the same unproductive and inefficient people to keep running the exports of this vital sector...

I don tire!

But the Fed Govt employs soldiers to kill natives of the Niger Delta and seize their oil wells and provide cheap fuel for Mikky, Tonsoyo, Agens and their like. THAT'S WHY THEY WANT THE FG TO CONTINUE CONTROLLING THE FUEL MARKET, WHY PAY FULL PRICE WHEN YOU CAN MASSACRE THE PEOPLE AND GET IT CHEAP?

I dey laugh o! I wonder if these your egbons would have this same attitude if the FG enacted such a regulatory regime for cocoa or land rents in Lagos. That is how to check if something is right.....ask if you would like it if you are treated like that. These Niger Deltans are our fellow Africans.....our own people!

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Ajibs
Mar 6, 2012, 08:22 PM
You no see now, instead of the fight to ensure we got needed projects see how the program has been cut, and of this lower amount, what will it produce? Instead of us to hold government to task again, we will start shouting this is fake et al.


FG reduces SURE fund from N1.134tn to N426bn (http://www.punchng.com/business/business-economy/fg-reduces-sure-fund-from-n1-134tn-to-n426bn/)

MARCH 6, 2012 BY OLALEKAN ADETAYO 7 COMMENTS

Following the decision of the Federal Government to suspend the complete deregulation of the downstream sector of the petroleum industry, the amount initially expected to be raised for the Subsidy Reinvestment and Empowerment Programme has dropped sharply from N1.134tn to N426bn.

The Minister of State for Finance, Dr. Yerima Ngama, disclosed this while briefing State House correspondents on the outcome of the National Economic Council meeting on Monday.

The NEC consists of the vice-president, who is the chairman of the council; the 36 state governors; Governor, Central Bank of Nigeria, as well as the ministers of Finance, National Planning and the Federal Capital Territory, among others.

Ngama said as a result of the drop in the expected fund because of the partial removal of subsidy, only N180bn would accrue to the Federal Government instead of the initial expected sum of N478bn as its share of the proceeds of subsidy.

This, he said, necessitated the review of the SURE programme so that it could be implemented within available resources.

He said the government had taken a second look at the programme with a view to prioritising the projects it was meant to finance.

The minister said projects that would benefit from the reviewed SURE-P included public works, health, transport, road and railway rehabilitation among others.

Ngama said, "When the Subsidy Re-investment Programme was drawn up, the projects that were selected to be implemented were based on the assumption that we are going to have complete deregulation of the downstream petroleum sector and the announcement was made for the complete deregulation of the price of petrol, which went to as high as N141 and that was taken for a fully deregulated price.

"But after engagement with the labour unions, deregulation was reversed and we have a partial deregulation that pegged the price of petrol at N97. It means that this is a partial or more or less 37 per cent or 38 per cent liberalisation of the price, and that implies that we cannot have the full re-investment fund because we have partial deregulation; unless we are going to end up with less than the projected re-investment fund."

He added, "If you look at the SURE-P document, the estimate of the re-investment fund was N1.134tn, but with the partial deregulation, the computed total re-investment fund per annum came to N426bn, and that is what is available to the Federal Government, the state governments and the local governments.

"The share of the Federal Government came down from N478bn to N180bn. So, the document you have seen was based on an expectation of N478bn every year for four years; but now that we are getting N180bn every year for four years, we have to prioritise."

Ngama said that in prioritising, the government was selecting safety net programmes of maternal and child health and public works programme to generate employment for the youth; mass transit scheme and the technical skill acquisition.

He said, "These are the safety nets that will be implemented; and of course, we have already launched the public work and the mass transit and we are now looked at the transportation sector and took the road and the railways.

"These are what we can actually do with N180bn. So, when the President talked of more or less reviewing the programme, it was not just reviewing or changing it, but prioritising it by taking what can be done with the money available today."

The Minister of National Planning, Dr. Shamsudeen Usman, told journalists that other issues discussed at the NEC meeting included the report of the inspection of Federal Government's water and irrigation projects; the N137bn balance in the Agriculture Intervention Fund as well as the Millennium Development Goals.

He said the council had set up a committee led by Governor Rotimi Amaechi of Rivers State to review the processes involved in spending the MDGs fund, especially with a view to ensuring that state governments had greater involvement in the way the fund was spent.

Others who joined Ngama and Usman at the briefing were governors of Borno, Enugu and Yobe states, Kashim Shettima, Sullivan Chime and Ibrahim Gaidem, respectively.

Obugi
Mar 6, 2012, 09:22 PM
NAR,

The Prez isn't serious about this so called palliative program. It's a subterfuge to hoodwink Nigerians in the same manner he did with his plentiful spending before the elections. The truth is Nigeria has NEVER HAD AND IN THE NEAR FUTURE IS NOT LIKELY TO HAVE the revenues or nationhood to sustain a welfarist state.

The national budget is ~ $35 billion. Add state and local budgets and you get maybe a grand total of $80 billion. Just building the Lagos Benin Expwy and Enugu PH Expwy to world standard and then a 2nd Niger Bridge, providing top notch pre and post natal health care, and conducting and maintaing a credible census record and paying and equiping police to a a satisfactory level of performance could wipe out ALL of that every year. NIGERIA IS A POOR COUNTRY WITH JUST ENOUGH FOR GREEDY POLITICIANS BUT. NOT ENOUGH FOR ALL OUR NEEDS.

The people of Nigeria are generally just as bad or actually stupid. All they want is cheap fuel, N90 University hostel fees (YES, THE OFFICIAL FEE FOR HOSTEL ROOMS IN FEDERAL UNIVERSITIES IS STILL 90 NAIRA!) and do-nothing govt jobs, free roads etc and they don't care how many Ijaw or Ibibio people are murdered to make it happen.

The President and Nigerians are like the proverbial cunny man wey die cunny man come bury am.

Just deregulate, LET THE MARKET FORCE PEOPLE TO BE MORE PRODUCTIVE. Let everyone go find their level. If you can't afford fuel use keke or bus. Or just die if you're too lazy or useless that you can't earn your livelihood.

There are no shortcuts to prosperity, you either work for it or go OUTSIDE and steal it, victimize and kill non Nigerians. That's how the UK got rich and we always cite them as a worthy example. Leave the Niger Delta alone.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Ajibs
Mar 6, 2012, 11:28 PM
(YES, THE OFFICIAL FEE FOR HOSTEL ROOMS IN FEDERAL UNIVERSITIES IS STILL 90 NAIRA!)

Chineke, Seriously? Anyway, I hia you loud and clear.

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 12:18 AM
Are you forgetting this is Nija? Look at monthly financial allocations to states. People like Ibori will just pay staff salaries and use the rest like panadol!:biggrin: A place like Lagos will grind to a halt for insufficient fuel while border states like Ogun, Kwara, Rivers, Bayelsa will gladly sell off their allocations while those in charge share the money and the nation grinds to a halt.

I may be stuck in the past, but I think we must not wait until people like Tam David-West die before we begin to ask how they did it in their own time that there were no fuel queues or frauds.:thinking:

Oga Agens,
This argument of yours sounds like the same lame excuse they are giving for refusing to decentralize the Police. I disagree that they can easily dispose off their allocation, it will be too glaring because the economy of the state will grind to a halt without petroleum. It is the best way out right now.

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 12:40 AM
Tonsoyo,



Under this your plan the Fed Govt would have to decide how much free or subsidized fuel goes to each zone.
The FG has to decide this because according to you "it is impossible to get the govt out of the only resource that sustains the nation" What a shame.

You're here advocating the sharing of crude oil belonging to other people!
A better solution is let every ethnic group or village or individual keep what is on their land and do whatever they want with it in a free market and pay an agreed tax to the FG. THIS IS THE ONLY JUST SOLUTION. You know this but you just can't keep away from that Niger Delta crude, can you? Just keep killing those yeye Ijaw people and stealing that oil, if they talk too much turn their homeland into a parking lot, not so? How much cocoa beans from Yoruba land should be shared among the regions?

Na you biko! Fellow Nigerians, indeed!

! Get Yours !
Obugi

The problem I have with you is that you peddle too much half knowledge. First of all, I need the definition of the "other people" Second, Yoruba is also oil producing. This is why I want you to define "other people" Oil belong to Nigeria, are these zones not benefitting under the present arrangement? What is your point?

Nobody drills Cocoa from under the soils of Yorubaland, people planted them, you are free as of today to come and own Cocoa plantation in Ekiti, ask Mikky. You do not know half of what you think you know bro.

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 01:11 AM
NAR,

The Prez isn't serious about this so called palliative program. It's a subterfuge to hoodwink Nigerians in the same manner he did with his plentiful spending before the elections. The truth is Nigeria has NEVER HAD AND IN THE NEAR FUTURE IS NOT LIKELY TO HAVE the revenues or nationhood to sustain a welfarist state.

The national budget is ~ $35 billion. Add state and local budgets and you get maybe a grand total of $80 billion. Just building the Lagos Benin Expwy and Enugu PH Expwy to world standard and then a 2nd Niger Bridge, providing top notch pre and post natal health care, and conducting and maintaing a credible census record and paying and equiping police to a a satisfactory level of performance could wipe out ALL of that every year. NIGERIA IS A POOR COUNTRY WITH JUST ENOUGH FOR GREEDY POLITICIANS BUT. NOT ENOUGH FOR ALL OUR NEEDS.

The people of Nigeria are generally just as bad or actually stupid. All they want is cheap fuel, N90 University hostel fees (YES, THE OFFICIAL FEE FOR HOSTEL ROOMS IN FEDERAL UNIVERSITIES IS STILL 90 NAIRA!) and do-nothing govt jobs, free roads etc and they don't care how many Ijaw or Ibibio people are murdered to make it happen.

The President and Nigerians are like the proverbial cunny man wey die cunny man come bury am.

Just deregulate, LET THE MARKET FORCE PEOPLE TO BE MORE PRODUCTIVE. Let everyone go find their level. If you can't afford fuel use keke or bus. Or just die if you're too lazy or useless that you can't earn your livelihood.

There are no shortcuts to prosperity, you either work for it or go OUTSIDE and steal it, victimize and kill non Nigerians. That's how the UK got rich and we always cite them as a worthy example. Leave the Niger Delta alone.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Your arguments can be very nauseating. You believe people dying in the ND is a direct consequence of oil drilling. But guess what, oil is being drilled in Saudi, Libya etc and nobody is dying as a result.

Obugi
Mar 7, 2012, 04:02 AM
Tonsoyo,

Your arguments can be very nauseating. You believe people dying in the ND is a direct consequence of oil drilling. But guess what, oil is being drilled in Saudi, Libya etc and nobody is dying as a result.

There is a very good reason for the difference. Libya, Saudi and such countries have a generally accepted cultural ethos. They are dominated by a single ethnic group.

In Nigeria what we have is a situation where the ethnic groups who own the oil (like the Ijaw) are placed under MILITARY OCCUPATION so that the crude can be taken and distributed cheaply to people from other ethnic groups. The factions of the Yoruba and the Fulani who believe in Nigerian Unity are the prime instigators of this arrangement under the tutelege of the UK and US. The general ordinary citizens like you and Mikky Jaga are in it for cheap fuel and business interests. Crimes like the massacare of Odi under OBJ are enforcement actions for preserving the Land Use Act and Petroleum Act.

If the Ijaw had 100% control of their oil they would damn well make sure it's drilled in a way that is as harmless as possible.

Yes Yorubaland has oil so you should also control it and do what you want with it and leave the tribes of the Niger Delta alone with theirs.

Welfarism and subsidies simply don't work in fake nations like Nigeria, tribalism alone makes it impossible.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 7, 2012, 08:34 AM
NAR,



But the Fed Govt employs soldiers to kill natives of the Niger Delta and seize their oil wells and provide cheap fuel for Mikky, Tonsoyo, Agens and their like. THAT'S WHY THEY WANT THE FG TO CONTINUE CONTROLLING THE FUEL MARKET, WHY PAY FULL PRICE WHEN YOU CAN MASSACRE THE PEOPLE AND GET IT CHEAP?

I dey laugh o! I wonder if these your egbons would have this same attitude if the FG enacted such a regulatory regime for cocoa or land rents in Lagos. That is how to check if something is right.....ask if you would like it if you are treated like that. These Niger Deltans are our fellow Africans.....our own people!

!Get Yours!
Obugi

You are fighting as an intruder. You cannot be more Catholic than the Pope. The president and the oil minister are not Yorubas, but from Niger Delta. If they believe what you pollinate the thread with, nothing stops them from taking steps in that direction. But, they know your assertions are baseless and impractical hence they did not do anything in that direction.

If you are clamouring for dissolution of Nigeria, say so plainly and stop obfuscating issues. As long as Nigeria remains one, Nigerians, including my honourable self reserve the right to demand for cheap fuel as citizen of an oil producing Nation.

Obugi
Mar 7, 2012, 09:09 AM
Mikky Jaga,


You are fighting as an intruder. You cannot be more Catholic than the Pope. The president and the oil minister are not Yorubas, but from Niger Delta. If they believe what you pollinate the thread with, nothing stops them from taking steps in that direction. But, they know your assertions are baseless and impractical hence they did not do anything in that direction.

If you are clamouring for dissolution of Nigeria, say so plainly and stop obfuscating issues. As long as Nigeria remains one, Nigerians, including my honourable self reserve the right to demand for cheap fuel as citizen of an oil producing Nation.

Yes Nigeria ULTIMATELY needs to dissolved or at leas the tribes given a choice in whether to belong.

President Jona, Dezani, Ngozi and the rest are servants of Western interests and you know it.

As for your right to cheap fuel, I predicted it clearly on other threads, that the owners of the oil wells will fight back if the subsidy is retained. Around 8 police and 4 soldiers were just killed in Bayelsa yesterday. Militant groups are getting restless again. Best of all, fuel is scarce and selling at 120 even in "occupied" Lagos.

The times have changed. YOU MUST PAY FOR YOUR FUEL.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 7, 2012, 09:20 AM
Mikky Jaga,



Yes Nigeria ULTIMATELY needs to dissolved or at leas the tribes given a choice in whether to belong.

President Jona, Dezani, Ngozi and the rest are servants of Western interests and you know it.

As for your right to cheap fuel, I predicted it clearly on other threads, that the owners of the oil wells will fight back if the subsidy is retained. Around 8 police and 4 soldiers were just killed in Bayelsa yesterday. Militant groups are getting restless again. Best of all, fuel is scarce and selling at 120 even in "occupied" Lagos.

The times have changed. YOU MUST PAY FOR YOUR FUEL.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Let them fight for their right. Nobody is stopping them. South Africa fought to determine who owned the land. In the end the issue was resolved. Let them fight for their rights or allow the existing system remain. If they cannot call their children in government to order, who are they to blame? If Jona cannot clean up the oil industry and introduce policies favourable to Niger Delta, it is his and his people's problems. They should stop blaming Yorubas for being intelligent enough to know how to get theirs, no matter who heads the government.

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 09:47 AM
Tonsoyo,


There is a very good reason for the difference. Libya, Saudi and such countries have a generally accepted cultural ethos. They are dominated by a single ethnic group.

In Nigeria what we have is a situation where the ethnic groups who own the oil (like the Ijaw) are placed under MILITARY OCCUPATION so that the crude can be taken and distributed cheaply to people from other ethnic groups. The factions of the Yoruba and the Fulani who believe in Nigerian Unity are the prime instigators of this arrangement under the tutelege of the UK and US. The general ordinary citizens like you and Mikky Jaga are in it for cheap fuel and business interests. Crimes like the massacare of Odi under OBJ are enforcement actions for preserving the Land Use Act and Petroleum Act.

If the Ijaw had 100% control of their oil they would damn well make sure it's drilled in a way that is as harmless as possible.

Yes Yorubaland has oil so you should also control it and do what you want with it and leave the tribes of the Niger Delta alone with theirs.

Welfarism and subsidies simply don't work in fake nations like Nigeria, tribalism alone makes it impossible.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Obugi,
You are just rabble-rousing now...Yoruba has always been the number one advocate of resources control in Nigeria. They have maintained the same stand since 1940s. Here is an Ijaw President saying he would not preside over break up of Nigeria! What are you not saying!

The ethnic groups of the ND include Yoruba as well, talking about ND in opposition to Yoruba is oxymoronic. OBJ levelled Odi, GEJ levelled Ayakoroma, that defeats your ethnic argument, now find something else to say.

The laws that vested the natural resources in the federal government are independent of the Land Use Act and Petroleum Act . Stop spreading this wrong information. Nigerian government makes about N500 billion from the Lagos Ports, over N200 billion in Sales Tax alias VAT in Lagos alone, that is more than what the whole Yoruba states receive in yearly allocation from the federal government! Where the heck is the benefit of the oil allocation or centralized Nigeria to the Yoruba people?

Nigeria is actually retarding the growth of Yorubaland.

Back to crude oil allocation, will you rather the federal government pay trillions in subsidy to foreign companies and favored individuals than direct crude allocation to zones or states?
Let us encourage competition amongst the states by watching how each state would manage its destiny while the federal government concentrates on export and hands off refineries totally. The crude should be sold to the zones or states at the production cost plus very little margin of distribution management by the federal government, cost to be directly deducted from each states monthly allocation. This way we would know what model works better, because states would employ different models.

The crude is already set aside from our daily production under the present rwgime at 400,000 barrel per day. Just distribute it to states and let them deal with it. Let Sokoto, Kano, Katsina etc exchange crude for refined oil with Niger Republic if they want on their own terms than bothering with them lifting oil from Lagos to Kano, killing our people and roads.

Down the road we would be able to ascertain total consumption from each state. Nothing stops some states within a zone from coming together to build refinery, supply their own electricity...the problem is lack of sincerity for the desired change.

Obugi
Mar 7, 2012, 09:53 AM
Mikky Jaga,


Let them fight for their right. Nobody is stopping them. South Africa fought to determine who owned the land. In the end the issue was resolved. Let them fight for their rights or allow the existing system remain. If they cannot call their children in government to order, who are they to blame? If Jona cannot clean up the oil industry and introduce policies favourable to Niger Delta, it is his and his people's problems. They should stop blaming Yorubas for being intelligent enough to know how to get theirs, no matter who heads the government.

Now you're talking. You knew this truth all along and kept hiding behind those farcical arguments about how we're all Nigerians, Nigerians need free fuel, it's essential to economy, it's the ONLY benefit they get from govt.

Yes, the Niger Delta has woken up. How much is fuel and kerosene in PH and Lagos today? How easy is it to even buy it? See the Ijaw, Ogoni and Annangs are't the eternal mugu you take them to be. Mark it down, the days of easy cheap fuel are gone. The FG has budgeted N688 billion for subsidy this year, how far do you think it will go? Welcome to intermittent scarcity and persistent black market.

YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR FUEL.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 10:11 AM
Mikky Jaga,



Now you're talking. You knew this truth all along and kept hiding behind those farcical arguments about how we're all Nigerians, Nigerians need free fuel, it's essential to economy, it's the ONLY benefit they get from govt.

Yes, the Niger Delta has woken up. How much is fuel and kerosene in PH and Lagos today? How easy is it to even buy it? See the Ijaw, Ogoni and Annangs are't the eternal mugu you take them to be. Mark it down, the days of easy cheap fuel are gone. The FG has budgeted N688 billion for subsidy this year, how far do you think it will go? Welcome to intermittent scarcity and persistent black market.

YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR FUEL.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

FUEL BELONGS TO NIGERIA! If ND wants to own fuel let them fight for the autonony first, no shortcuts. Non-entities is incapable of owning properties, how many times do I have to tell you. When you write ND you are not referring to any known entity but a geographical reference. You tried substituting that with Ijaw you discovered that was not working as well...

I do not have to pay for what belongs to me! Wake up to reality, most of the best OMLs still belong to Northerners. Most of Port Harcourt. Warri and Calabar ports is concessioned to Intel owned by Atiku, wake up to reality bro. Jonathan still does not know what he is doing as far as I am concerned.

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 10:29 AM
Jonathan will have to decide if he wants to be the President of Nigeria or Ijaw people. Obugi, if there is iota of truth in what you are saying it is disgraceful. There is nothing praiseworthy in a President that would deliberately alienate the most populous state in his country, the commercial nerve center and socially most vibrant for primordial reasons. You are actually dragging Jonathan in the mud making such argument.

Do not forget, it is the peculiarities of Nigeria that made him the President, he could not have won a local government chairmanship on his own.

Obugi
Mar 7, 2012, 10:40 AM
Tonsoyo,

The problem I have with you is that you peddle too much half knowledge

Nobody drills Cocoa from under the soils of Yorubaland, people planted them, you are free as of today to come and own Cocoa plantation in Ekiti, ask Mikky. You do not know half of what you think you know bro.

You're the one writing tosh.

COCOA PRICES WERE REGULATED JUST LIKE FUEL PRICE UNTIL 1987

Tonsoyo go and check the above statement. If you as a Yoruba man don't know this then you should be ashamed.

Any commodity can be claimed, seized or regulated by govt. What we free market advocates want for Ogoni fuel is the same thing Yoruba cocoa farmers got from SAP....deregulated pricing and removing govt from the market.

Now go and ask Yoruba people who know better instead of coming here to talk rubbish. COCOA PRICES WERE REGULATED JUST LIKE FUEL UNTIL 1987. You won't find me making comments I'm not sure of. Go and educate yourself and then we can continue. What a shame!

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 7, 2012, 10:59 AM
Tonsoyo,


You're the one writing tosh.

COCOA PRICES WERE REGULATED JUST LIKE FUEL PRICE UNTIL 1987

Tonsoyo go and check the above statement. If you as a Yoruba man don't know this then you should be ashamed.

Any commodity can be claimed, seized or regulated by govt. What we free market advocates want for Ogoni fuel is the same thing Yoruba cocoa farmers got from SAP....deregulated pricing and removing govt from the market.

Now go and ask Yoruba people who know better instead of coming here to talk rubbish. COCOA PRICES WERE REGULATED JUST LIKE FUEL UNTIL 1987. You won't find me making comments I'm not sure of. Go and educate yourself and then we can continue. What a shame!

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Then let the Ijaw /Ogoni plant/drill their oil as the Yorubas planted their cocoa.

You cannot ask the FG to spend money drill oil and hand it over to the Ogonis. Nobody did that for cocoa.

Obugi
Mar 7, 2012, 11:34 AM
Mikky Jaga,


Then let the Ijaw /Ogoni plant/drill their oil as the Yorubas planted their cocoa.

You cannot ask the FG to spend money drill oil and hand it over to the Ogonis. Nobody did that for cocoa.

Good, you didn't say I lied. I'm waiting for Tonsoyo to come and tell me why cocoa prices can't be fixed or regulated.

On this issue of "planting trees" you miss the basic issue. First of all, PRICE FIXING IS A FORM OF. PROPERTY SEIZURE. I hope I don't have to explain this. That theft of cocoa endured for decades until it was abolished under......SAP!

The essential question isn't HOW the Yoruba farmer got his cocoa tree or how the Ogoni man got an oil well on his land. THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD THE GOVT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SEIZE PRIVATE PROPERTY? AND THEN SELL IT CHEAPLY TO SOME CHOSEN PEOPLE?

If we leave the Ogoni man alone with his oil, he can make his own private deal with Chevron to help him drill and exploit it. There's nothing the FG does in that respect that a private person can't. And because it is private property, the owner will be eager to sell and provide adequate supply. THIS ALSO ELIMINATES MONOPOLY AND ASSOCIATED CORRUPTION as there will be thousands of similar private well owners instead of the current situation where EVERYTHING is owned by the NNPC alone.

Forget economics, this is common sense. When a person or institution can steal with no cost, they loose the natural incentive to be productive AND if you fix prices below market, producers a reluctant to produce. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OUR FUEL MARKET TODAY.

Same with cheap regulated airlines, banks, TV/Radio, cocoa, telecoms, Universities etc until the drastic improvements mandated by SAP.

We desperately need MORE deregulation. This is a practical matter. We can't continue like this. Too many people are being killed, too many dreams wrecked and too many people being condemned to economic servitude.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 7, 2012, 12:47 PM
Mikky Jaga,



Good, you didn't say I lied. I'm waiting for Tonsoyo to come and tell me why cocoa prices can't be fixed or regulated.

On this issue of "planting trees" you miss the basic issue. First of all, PRICE FIXING IS A FORM OF. PROPERTY SEIZURE. I hope I don't have to explain this. That theft of cocoa endured for decades until it was abolished under......SAP!

The essential question isn't HOW the Yoruba farmer got his cocoa tree or how the Ogoni man got an oil well on his land. THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD THE GOVT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SEIZE PRIVATE PROPERTY? AND THEN SELL IT CHEAPLY TO SOME CHOSEN PEOPLE?

If we leave the Ogoni man alone with his oil, he can make his own private deal with Chevron to help him drill and exploit it. There's nothing the FG does in that respect that a private person can't. And because it is private property, the owner will be eager to sell and provide adequate supply. THIS ALSO ELIMINATES MONOPOLY AND ASSOCIATED CORRUPTION as there will be thousands of similar private well owners instead of the current situation where EVERYTHING is owned by the NNPC alone.

Forget economics, this is common sense. When a person or institution can steal with no cost, they loose the natural incentive to be productive AND if you fix prices below market, producers a reluctant to produce. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN OUR FUEL MARKET TODAY.

Same with cheap regulated airlines, banks, TV/Radio, cocoa, telecoms, Universities etc until the drastic improvements mandated by SAP.

We desperately need MORE deregulation. This is a practical matter. We can't continue like this. Too many people are being killed, too many dreams wrecked and too many people being condemned to economic servitude.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

What you are asking for is not more deregulation, but resource control, which has been on the table for a very long time. The ball is now in the courts of GEJ an Ijaw man to ensure resource control is entrenched in the constitution like those military boys entrenched Land Use in the constitution because it favours their areas.

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 01:13 PM
Tonsoyo,


You're the one writing tosh.

COCOA PRICES WERE REGULATED JUST LIKE FUEL PRICE UNTIL 1987

Tonsoyo go and check the above statement. If you as a Yoruba man don't know this then you should be ashamed.

Any commodity can be claimed, seized or regulated by govt. What we free market advocates want for Ogoni fuel is the same thing Yoruba cocoa farmers got from SAP....deregulated pricing and removing govt from the market.

Now go and ask Yoruba people who know better instead of coming here to talk rubbish. COCOA PRICES WERE REGULATED JUST LIKE FUEL UNTIL 1987. You won't find me making comments I'm not sure of. Go and educate yourself and then we can continue. What a shame!

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Obugi,
Red herring argument do not work with me. Where in that post did I say anything like "price fixing" My message is clear, there was never a time the Yoruba laid exclusive rights to Cocoa in Western Region! Simple!

Whatever rights Mikky or Tonsoyo has to Cocoa production and benefits is the same right Obugi from Njikoka LG has.

Then, I am happy that you are beginning to refrain drom using the obnoxious NigerDelta description. But every time you use the word Ogoni, always remember to write it or have it at the back of your mind as Ogoni/Ijaw/ Igbo/Kalabari/Yoruba, It becomes a problem when you use Ogoni as opposite of Yoruba in relation to oil production. Except you are arguing that one oil community is better than the other.

Everything that applies to Ogoni in relation to oil ownership also applies to Yoruba. In the event of a Nigeria break up, you will be surprised who owns what.

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 01:24 PM
Obugi go to Ogbomosho today pay for piece of land and start to produce your Cocoa yanfu-yanfu unmolested. If the FG wants to take over production of Cocoa like oil today, they are most welcomed. But always have it at the back of your mind that Cocoa is not a natural resources. The other natural resources that the federal is exploiting from.us besides oil is our seaports. You guys never talk about that!

They are our natural resources, they have brought untold hardships to the land, black lagoons of Apapa, polluted inland waters, ever clogged traffic, immense environmental pollution, high crime waves, exhorbitant cost of living etc.
We should start talking about that as well if all you see is oil.

Mikky jaga
Mar 7, 2012, 01:25 PM
Obugi,
Red herring argument do not work with me. Where in that post did I say anything like "price fixing" My message is clear, there was never a time the Yoruba laid exclusive rights to Cocoa in Western Region! Simple!

Whatever rights Mikky or Tonsoyo has to Cocoa production and benefits is the same right Obugi from Njikoka LG has.

Then, I am happy that you are beginning to refrain drom using the obnoxious NigerDelta description. But every time you use the word Ogoni, always remember to write it or have it at the back of your mind as Ogoni/Ijaw/ Igbo/Kalabari/Yoruba, It becomes a problem when you use Ogoni as opposite of Yoruba in relation to oil production. Except you are arguing that one oil community is better than the other.

Everything that applies to Ogoni in relation to oil ownership also applies to Yoruba. In the event of a Nigeria break up, you will be surprised who owns what.

There are Igbos that own cocoa plantations in my grandfather's farm. The only condition we gave them was that they should not replace dead or dying trees lest they pass the land to their children as theirs.

Obugi
Mar 7, 2012, 01:37 PM
Tonsoyo,


Obugi,
Red herring argument do not work with me. Where in that post did I say anything like "price fixing" My message is clear, there was never a time the Yoruba laid exclusive rights to Cocoa in Western Region! Simple!

Whatever rights Mikky or Tonsoyo has to Cocoa production and benefits is the same right Obugi from Njikoka LG has.

Everything that applies to Ogoni in relation to oil ownership also applies to Yoruba. In the event of a Nigeria break up, you will be surprised who owns what.

You earn credibility when you accept your mistakes. Look at what you wrote above in the 1st paragraph. Now let me point out another fact for you....THE YORUBA INDIVIDUAL FARMER HAS 100% CONTROL OVER HIS COCOA. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE BEFORE 1987.
So how can you say the Yoruba have never laid exclusive claim or ownership to cocoa? You have those rights today! WHY CAN'T NIGERIA EXTEND THOSE SAME RIGHTS INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE OIL ON THEIR LANDS???

You don't even know what you speak of. Just the facts please. What we want for the people of the Niger Delta and any other oil producing community is the same thing Yoruba cocoa farmers have been enjoying since 1987.....freedom to control their own resource and set their own prices. VERY SIMPLE. Why are so opposed this? What we have now is causing scarcity. Why not just do the right thing?

*sigh*

!Get Yours!
Obugi

tonsoyo
Mar 7, 2012, 02:41 PM
Tonsoyo,



You earn credibility when you accept your mistakes. Look at what you wrote above in the 1st paragraph. Now let me point out another fact for you....THE YORUBA INDIVIDUAL FARMER HAS 100% CONTROL OVER HIS COCOA. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE BEFORE 1987.
So how can you say the Yoruba have never laid exclusive claim or ownership to cocoa? You have those rights today! WHY CAN'T NIGERIA EXTEND THOSE SAME RIGHTS INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE OIL ON THEIR LANDS???

You don't even know what you speak of. Just the facts please. What we want for the people of the Niger Delta and any other oil producing community is the same thing Yoruba cocoa farmers have been enjoying since 1987.....freedom to control their own resource and set their own prices. VERY SIMPLE. Why are so opposed this? What we have now is causing scarcity. Why not just do the right thing?

*sigh*

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Chei Obugi! I love your tenacity, but what is it with you and half-knowledge? It is worse than ignorance. Who told you the weird 1987 Cocoa story.
Before the Western Region Marketing Board was the Nigerian Cocoa Marketing Board that was created in 1947! So Nigeria once sold Cocoa exclusively like oil, seek ye knowledge and thou shall be free indeed. The Nigeria Cocoa Marketing Board was the single seller of the commodity, the Western Region merely took over when the regions were created. Niger Delta benefitted when Nigeria centralized the sale and nobody was crying fa fa foul!

Same for groundnuts and cotton from the North! Palm from the West and East as well, present day ND. took full benefit, there was no oil then. The marketing board was replaced in 1977 not 1987.

Obugi please stop saying what you do not know...do your home work before engaging me.

Obugi
Mar 7, 2012, 03:54 PM
Tonsoyo,

The Fed Govt set prices for cocoa up till 1986. Just Google. Yoruba farmers were unhappy with the pricing and resorted to smuggling their beans into Benin Republic in order to get higher prices.....JUST LIKE IJAW MILITANTS DO TODAY when they do oil bunkering and smuggle crude or fuel ....

The Fed Govt granted cocoa farmers full resource control as part of SAP under Babangida. Happy Googling.....I shouldn't have to spoon feed you. Anyone who doubts it should Google. I'm not in a comfortable place to do cut and paste right now, so why not just do the research?

Just remember....Yoruba farmers got 100% resource control in over cocoa in 1986...that's all we want for the native tribes of the Niger Delta with respect to oil...deregulation.

Go on and do your research.

Here's an old thread. Igbo people say you can never get lost asking questions

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-67938.html.

Pay attention to the academic paper I posted and also the comments of the Village Gen Sani Abacha, a Yoruba person with first hand info and kind enough to share it.

Ooooops, it was 1986.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Obugi
Mar 8, 2012, 05:23 AM
Mikky Jaga,


Before I address your 'facts' let me quickly address this.

The government must build refineries and ensure fuel gets to Nigerians at the cheapest price possible. The reason is simple. The government has abdicated its responsibilities to the citizenry in nearly every other sector. The 'cheap' fuel is the only way Nigerians feel the presence of government.

The private sector is the reason the government is not working. Handling the commanding height of the economy - oil sector to them is to give them a field day to express their corrupt tendencies to the fullest. No Nigerian thinks of any collective. Everyone thinks of how to corner the common wealth to his pocket.

Tonsoyo seems to have seen the light...that the Fed Govt subjected the cocoa business to THE SAME MONOPOLY & PRICE CONTROLS that have destroyed the fuel market, and that it was deregulated in 1986.

Now let's tackle the above quoted outrageous comments by. On the second paragraph, my only comment is that you Mikky Jaga should know that EVERY SINGLE PRIVATIZED/DEREGULATED BUSINESS SECTOR IN NIGERIA IS BEING RUN MORE PROFITABLY, EFFICIENTLY AND WITH LESS CORRUPTION THAN WHEN THEY WERE UNDER GOVERNMENT CONTROL.

Airlines, banks, education at all levels, broadcasting, telecoms! Please name ONE sector that is being better managed by govt monopoly of the kind we have in the fuel market!

The very important electricity market is being deregulated and privatized, you'll see the difference!

The first paragraph is just as disturbing. I also used to be under the illusion that Nigerians get nothing from govt. I'll pick just one sector - university education.

How much does it cost to get a medical, pharmacy, engineering or law degree in a Federal University Nigeria? Compare that cost to the United States....I know what I paid to get my own degree there.

Today in Nigeria the official cost of a hostel room in Federal Universities is
90 naira per session or semester. Tuition is similarly cheap.

Now do some surveys of what Nigerians with such qualifications - many of them are here on NVS - have been able to earn with the cheap degrees they got in Nigeria.
It's precisely such people that got subsidized education who are more likely to run away from Nigeria and use their valuable skills abroad. That has been my personal, first hand observation. So who is a patriot now?

Some of us live in the real world. I rest my case.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 8, 2012, 09:40 AM
When you talk of subsidized education, I have nothing more to say to you. If waht we have in Nigerian Universities today, where schools are closed more than they are open is what you call education for which parents must pay what people pay in US, then youe logic is truly warped.

The private institutions are very poor examples of what private sectors can do when they are allowed to handle any part of the economy. They are unable or unwilling to pay foe quality teachers, hence they depend on part time lecturers fron Public Institutions to get accreditation.

Indorama that was being touted as success story of privatization is finding it hard to pay staff salaries even though it is producing. The airlines that have folded up like Nigerian Airways are legion and some of them have resorted to flying molue in the skies to keep up appearance. The real thriving ones are local branches of foreign airlines. Banks are being taken over by foreign investors. The ones owned by Nigerians like Oceanic were...

The fact remains that no privatized industry will run efficiently in Nigeria unless it can make sinful profits like MTN

tonsoyo
Mar 8, 2012, 09:41 AM
Tonsoyo,

The Fed Govt set prices for cocoa up till 1986. Just Google. Yoruba farmers were unhappy with the pricing and resorted to smuggling their beans into Benin Republic in order to get higher prices.....JUST LIKE IJAW MILITANTS DO TODAY when they do oil bunkering and smuggle crude or fuel ....

The Fed Govt granted cocoa farmers full resource control as part of SAP under Babangida. Happy Googling.....I shouldn't have to spoon feed you. Anyone who doubts it should Google. I'm not in a comfortable place to do cut and paste right now, so why not just do the research?

Just remember....Yoruba farmers got 100% resource control in over cocoa in 1986...that's all we want for the native tribes of the Niger Delta with respect to oil...deregulation.

Go on and do your research.

Here's an old thread. Igbo people say you can never get lost asking questions

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-67938.html.

Pay attention to the academic paper I posted and also the comments of the Village Gen Sani Abacha, a Yoruba person with first hand info and kind enough to share it.

Ooooops, it was 1986.

!Get Yours!
Obugi


You are still confusing issues. Cocoa is a renewable farm product, oil is non-renewable NATURAL resource, it is an endowment, Cocoa is not endowed. Every Nigerian from anywhere can create cocoa, it is either there is oil or not. There is an overriding public interest in a natural endowment as opposed to self created product. Long before scrapping of Commodity Marketing Board, the farmers have always created their own cocoa, oil has always have to be produced by a third party. If Nigeria is regionalized today and allows resources control, oil will simply move from being owned by Nigeria to Ogoni government owned or South-South government owned, it will still never be owned by individual as with farmers.

Western region or the federal government at no time ever produce cocoa, oil has always been produced at someone else's expense. Comparing cocoa as a product to oil is like comparing an apple to a motor car!

These so called "oil owners" have lived off the sweat of individual Nigerians for several decades now they want to maintain exclusive access to a natural endowment. They will achieve that only when they achieve their autonomy. Again no shortcuts, as it is oil is a Nigeria natural endowment. A seaport is a natural endowment, "owners" are still not allowed to make exclusive claim to them and they do not get derivation like oil "owners"

tonsoyo
Mar 8, 2012, 10:18 AM
Mikky Jaga,



Tonsoyo seems to have seen the light...that the Fed Govt subjected the cocoa business to THE SAME MONOPOLY & PRICE CONTROLS that have destroyed the fuel market, and that it was deregulated in 1986.

Now let's tackle the above quoted outrageous comments by. On the second paragraph, my only comment is that you Mikky Jaga should know that EVERY SINGLE PRIVATIZED/DEREGULATED BUSINESS SECTOR IN NIGERIA IS BEING RUN MORE PROFITABLY, EFFICIENTLY AND WITH LESS CORRUPTION THAN WHEN THEY WERE UNDER GOVERNMENT CONTROL.

Airlines, banks, education at all levels, broadcasting, telecoms! Please name ONE sector that is being better managed by govt monopoly of the kind we have in the fuel market!

The very important electricity market is being deregulated and privatized, you'll see the difference!

The first paragraph is just as disturbing. I also used to be under the illusion that Nigerians get nothing from govt. I'll pick just one sector - university education.

How much does it cost to get a medical, pharmacy, engineering or law degree in a Federal University Nigeria? Compare that cost to the United States....I know what I paid to get my own degree there.

Today in Nigeria the official cost of a hostel room in Federal Universities is
90 naira per session or semester. Tuition is similarly cheap.

Now do some surveys of what Nigerians with such qualifications - many of them are here on NVS - have been able to earn with the cheap degrees they got in Nigeria.
It's precisely such people that got subsidized education who are more likely to run away from Nigeria and use their valuable skills abroad. That has been my personal, first hand observation. So who is a patriot now?

Some of us live in the real world. I rest my case.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Obugi,
You have no case to rest in the first place. I took a break because I had better things to do.

I have already said most related things above. There is an overriding public interest in natural endowment because it is like winning a lottery jackpot, not EARNED in the real sense of it. So lottery is taxed by the government as close to 40%.
If Nigeria cannot exercise a right over oil, then Ijaw, Ogoni, South-South government or whatever the case may be cannot exercise a right over it because the power is derivate in both instance as the government in charge.
You can only speak for individual land owners, meaning that the battle will simply move from Nigerian government to Ogoni government since it is most unlikely that an Ijaw governed territory would allow individuals to exercise control over oil.

With regards to education, Nigeria is pre-industrial with huge population of illiterates and therefore has more interest in educating more people of limited means. Comparing us to industrialized nations with basic welfaristic programs in place is a bloody waste of time.

So we subsidize education so what? Your America gives free money every week to jobless, people of certain income get free healthcare, they get free foodstamps (free money for feeding) every month, they get free education including free food to high school level, most get subsidized university education,.many get it free, farmers get subsidized, oil is at subsidized rate, they have lights, good roads, get free housing, elderly get free transportation, home and Medicare and upon all their government do not loot! That is how they are able to pay for all the free stuff. And you have the gut to compare and complain about cheap education in Nigeria? What is the quality of the education anyway? The libraries have no books, the laboratories have no equipment, those hostels are not better than jungles, one room accomodates about 15 students or more, "bedlords" "landlords" "cornerlords" and itinerant squatters! I would rather be in US prisons! You be clown....

denker
Mar 8, 2012, 11:02 AM
With regards to education, Nigeria is pre-industrial with huge population of illiterates and therefore has more interest in educating more people of limited means. Comparing us to industrialized nations with basic welfaristic programs in place is a bloody waste of time.

So we subsidize education so what? Your America gives free money every week to jobless, people of certain income get free healthcare, they get free foodstamps (free money for feeding) every month, they education including free food to high school level, most get subsidize university education,.many get it free, farmers get subsidized, oil is at subsidized rate, they have lights, good roads, get free housing, elderly get free transportation, home and Medicare and upon all their government do not loot! That is how they are able to pay for all the free stuff. And you have the gut to compare and complain about cheap education in Nigeria? What is the quality of the education anyway? The libraries have no books, the laboratories have no equipment, those hostels is not better than jungles, one room accomodates about 15 students or more, "bedlords" "landlords" "cornerlords" and itinerant squatters! O would rather be in US prisons! You be clown....

mallam tonsoyo, i concur with the quote above and i thank you for the bolded words...mallam obugi, sometimes, talks like a clown...indeed.

Obugi
Mar 8, 2012, 03:32 PM
Tonsoyo,

Thank goodness you no longer dispute the 1986 deregulation of cocoa markets. You learned something. The same deregulation MUST be extended to crude oil and gas. Mark it down....it must be done or else....the oil wars will resume.

As for education, I have no opinion on whether it should be subsidized. All I did was prove Mikky Jaga wrong in his claim that cheap fuel is the ONLY benefit Nigerians get from their govt.

The people of the Niger Delta didn't win a lottery, God gave them their lands and all it contains. So your argument now is "they have too much money and so must share it with us"

Your true motivation is revealed. Thanks!

Obugi

Ajibs
Mar 8, 2012, 04:46 PM
I am glad the discussion is coming back to center rather than the ethnic my Yoruba is better than you Igbo, etc.

A few comments to make,

Tonsoyo, / Obugi
First I am continually troubled by at least one thing you both seem to agree upon and that is that Nigerian simply cannot work as a united nation because we have three dominant ethnic groups in it. In other discussions, Tonsonyo argues that there is no place in the world where this has been the case.

Now even if I were to accept that assertion, I will say this, and so bloody what??? Are we not so dimwitted in our follow- follow that because something has not been done elsewhere in the world WE CANNOT do it? Why are we admitting defeat just like that? Especially where there is little evidence that a fractured "smaller" collection of states would work better than the current "whole" of Nigeria.

How about rather than spend our entire lives engaged in copy copy and follow follow from every other person in the world we put our heads down, and also put them together and figure out how to co-exist and then we have a gift and legacy to give the world from our small corner of earth. It is not impossible.

It just seems to me like taking the "easy way out" to say well guess what this has not worked anywhere in the world what makes you think we can make it work in Nigeria after all we have tried for 50 years. As if after 50 years the United States was a Utopian country. If we cannot figure out how to make Nigeria work and make the best of the nonsense we were given by our colonial masters, shame on us is my opinion. We are not the only country with a multitude of different ethnic groups. Go check out the make up of Brazil.

Now I agree that Nigeria cannot work as it is presently constituted, but that does not equate to a blanket belief that Nigeria just cannot work under any situation simply because there is no singular dominant group of people.

Then Mikky Jaja,

You mentioned the private universities in Nigeria are not worth ten kobo and they can't even play salaries despite their high tuition fees et al. And they cannot hire and pay good lecturers. This is just an argument that is not tenable against having private institutions. Okay let me ask you how old are the private universities Vs. the established federal universities they compete with? Well lets take a look,

Ibadan was established in 1948, 64 years ago. UniLag, OAU, and ABU were established in 1962, 50 years ago. And you are comparing to universities like Convenant University that was established in 2002, 10 years ago or even one of the oldest Babcock Univeristy that is as old as 1959 / 1975 but got its University licence in 1999, 13 years ago.

Secondly how many times without no number for how many donkey years have ASUU gone on strike due to salary issues and non-payment by the FG? if it is not ASUU is is non-academic staff. Did ASUU not just end another 2-3 month old strike, so if you accuse the private institutions of not paying salaries despite the huge tuition fees, how about the FG not paying salaries despite its huge revenues?

And why is that and argument against having private universities in Nigeria. Allowing private Universities in Nigeria is one of the few most laudable decisions that Obasanjo made while in government. You have a country where every year over 1.2 million students take the university entrance examination and there were less than a total or 500,000 spaces available in All Federal and State higher institutions to accept them. What are the balance of the 700,000 supposed to do each year? This year over 300,000 made the cut and yet no space in the Federal And State institutions.

That is why you have people taking JAMB / UTME four times just to get a spot in a run down federal university. Why because you want free education for all in government run institutions. Now the FG university can co exist side by side with the private owed. As the years go by they shall also develop and get better. The competition itself will benefit the education sector and also the Nigerian economy by producing better graduates.

And by the way, more than half of the students, in fact the bulk, that attend PRIVATE universities in the United States still do so with government provided grants and student loans. So it is not as though the government is still not directly involved in providing a good education. Then the student pays back the loans and the grants are what? A subsidy.

Mikky jaga
Mar 8, 2012, 05:38 PM
Now the FG university can co exist side by side with the private owed. As the years go by they shall also develop and get better. The competition itself will benefit the education sector and also the Nigerian economy by producing better graduates.

Paraphrased!


Now the FG Refineries can co exist side by side with the private owed. As the years go by they shall also develop and get better. The competition itself will benefit the oil sector and also the Nigerian economy by producing Cheaper fuel.


End of story. NAR, you know this all this while and you asked the government to hands off the oil sector.

Ajibs
Mar 8, 2012, 10:09 PM
Paraphrased!



End of story. NAR, you know this all this while and you asked the government to hands off the oil sector.

MJ,
You should know by now I always stay on point. I have said somewhere on these numerous threads and this in particular, that if the government likes, it can keep its dead refineries but those THREE NEW ONES to be located in Bayelsa, Lagos and Kogi should be given to the private sector. But it appears the refineries have already been given to the Chinese.

Like it was done in the airline industry and the telecom industry, the government businesses will be out performed by the private companies and we shall see what will happen to them at the end of the day.

Why GEJ had to go and sign a deal with those yellow devils sef pass me!


The Memorandum of Understanding (http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=52190) signed in May between the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation and a Chinese consortium committed the parties to jointly seek financing for the funding and construction of three new refineries and a petrochemical plant.

The refineries, with a combined capacity of 885,000 barrels per day, are expected to cost $25 billion. They are planned for Lagos in the southeast, the central state of Kogi, and in Bayelsa, in the oil-producing Niger Delta.

The Chinese State Construction Engineering Corporation, the sixth largest engineering firm in the world, also pledged to assist in procuring funding on competitive terms, ensure that bona fide Chinese investors take up at least 25 per cent of equity holding in the project.

When completed, the Lagos refinery is expected to produce 300,000 barrels of crude oil per day.

"It will also produce 500,000 metric tonnes of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) per annum that if properly harnessed would facilitate households from firewood, charcoal and kerosene, to LPG in Lagos and environs.

"With the Lagos State Government as a co-investor, the Lekki refinery will alongside other refineries enable Nigeria to eliminate completely, the current flood of imported petroleum products over the next decade," said NNPC official Billy Agha

But if we want to be honest the Chinese can now build as good as anyone else on the planet. But they have not be doing so in Nigeria.

Obugi
Mar 8, 2012, 11:12 PM
NAR,

When it comes to his own family needs - primary/secondary schooling, telephony, housing, TV - Mikky Jaga has the choice of using private services or those provided by the Nigerian govt.

I'm willing to bet he chooses private everytime for better service.

And he will still continue advocating for the existence of public businesses.

The chasm between the religious, economic and political reality of Nigerians and the expressions of the same Nigerians...their hypocrisy, for want of a better word, is one of our greatest failings.

I don't know how people can live and act one reality and yet fervently advocate completely opposite ideas.

What a country, what a people!

!Get Yours!
Obugi

tonsoyo
Mar 8, 2012, 11:34 PM
NAR,

When it comes to his own family needs - primary/secondary schooling, telephony, housing, TV - Mikky Jaga has the choice of using private services or those provided by the Nigerian govt.

I'm willing to bet he chooses private everytime for better service.

And he will still continue advocating for the existence of public businesses.

The chasm between the religious, economic and political reality of Nigerians and the expressions of the same Nigerians...their hypocrisy, for want of a better word, is one of our greatest failings.

I don't know how people can live and act one reality and yet fervently advocate completely opposite ideas.

What a country, what a people!

!Get Yours!
Obugi

God knows I hate taking this Adult Evening Classes...ok Adult pupils N.A.R. and Obugi listen to me and listen to me good:

@N.A.R,
There is nothing sacrosanct about Nigeria as it is that we have to make it work by force, moreso rhat we have experimented with a better system in the past. Malaysia and Singapore are doing beautifully better apart.

@Obugi,
Governance is not a private enterprise, it is a social contract. Government has a duty to maintain a balance in the economy.

Obugi
Mar 9, 2012, 05:49 AM
Tonsoyo,


God knows I hate taking this Adult Evening Classes...ok Adult pupils N.A.R. and Obugi listen to me and listen to me good:

@N.A.R,
There is nothing sacrosanct about Nigeria as it is that we have to make it work by force, moreso rhat we have experimented with a better system in the past. Malaysia and Singapore are doing beautifully better apart.

@Obugi,
Governance is not a private enterprise, it is a social contract. Government has a duty to maintain a balance in the economy.

I AGREE WITH YOU ON BOTH COUNTS. With respect to the "social contract", the tribes or people of the Niger Delta didn't sign any contract with Nigeria. They had kingdoms and city states before the British came and incorporated them into Nigeria by force....I'm sure you know this already.

Crude oil shouldn't make us reason crudely.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Mar 9, 2012, 08:58 AM
When completed, the Lagos refinery is expected to produce 300,000 barrels of crude oil per day.

"It will also produce 500,000 metric tonnes of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) per annum that if properly harnessed would facilitate households from firewood, charcoal and kerosene, to LPG in Lagos and environs.

"With the Lagos State Government as a co-investor, the Lekki refinery will alongside other refineries enable Nigeria to eliminate completely, the current flood of imported petroleum products over the next decade," said NNPC official Billy Agha

NAR, that your report get as e be o.

Na crude oil the refinery go dey produce again? That one no tell you say the report na 419?

But if na correct report, and LASG is involved, you can bet your last kobo the fuel ain't gonna be cheap.

tonsoyo
Mar 9, 2012, 01:06 PM
Tonsoyo,



I AGREE WITH YOU ON BOTH COUNTS. With respect to the "social contract", the tribes or people of the Niger Delta didn't sign any contract with Nigeria. They had kingdoms and city states before the British came and incorporated them into Nigeria by force....I'm sure you know this already.

Crude oil shouldn't make us reason crudely.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

First of all, I am uncomfortable with the word "tribes" I think it is CRUDE, just call them ethnic groups.

You need to be able to differentiate between a "social contract" and a "legal contract" Unlike a legal contract, you need not consent to be a part of a social contract. We may have arrived in different canoes, but we are in the same boat now. This is why I think your attempt at justifying "deregulation" for the benefit of some ethnic groups within the same social fabric is awkward and does not make sense.

I need not tell you that I am an advocate of true federalism, resources control or a total break up of the dysfunctioning country. But arguing for a program to benefit just certain groups of people while others are still trapped in the same system and are unable to maximize their potentials is appalling.

As long as Nigeria remain as it is, every policy MUST be designed for the maximum benefit of all the constituent units. Otherwise just advocate for true federalism instead of back door policy to favor a group of people to the detriment of others because "it is their oil" Guess what...ownership is a legal definition not a birthright. As it is in Nigeria today, oil belongs to NIGERIA!

The danger of your approach is that Jonathan will not always be there, so such policy can be reversed overnight by one Mallam Abubakar and we will be back to square one in 24 hours.

Seek ye first political autonomy, and every other thing shall be added unto it. If Jonathan is wise, that would be his approach, instead of this dumb, fast and fury approach.

He should ask the Western Region, all our gains were reversed overnight and they got the military from other ethnic groups to dismantle and sell off Oduduwa group assets.

Deregulation is not the way out for the SouthSouth, it is actually a dangerous move that will attract retaliation.

agensheku
Mar 9, 2012, 07:34 PM
MJ,
You should know by now I always stay on point. I have said somewhere on these numerous threads and this in particular, that if the government likes, it can keep its dead refineries but those THREE NEW ONES to be located in Bayelsa, Lagos and Kogi should be given to the private sector. But it appears the refineries have already been given to the Chinese.

Like it was done in the airline industry and the telecom industry, the government businesses will be out performed by the private companies and we shall see what will happen to them at the end of the day.

Why GEJ had to go and sign a deal with those yellow devils sef pass me!



But if we want to be honest the Chinese can now build as good as anyone else on the planet. But they have not be doing so in Nigeria.

The Chinese are very clever people. Europe and America settle for nothing less than Grade A products from China, but those who love to cut corners accept Grade D, or factory rejects which we all see all over the place here.

Obugi
Mar 12, 2012, 02:22 PM
Look who's complaining now!

Ondo oil producing communities lol! Maybe they need the kind of deregulation that their cocoa farming brethren have been enjoying since 1986!

http://www.thenationonlineng.net/2011/index.php/politics/39468-ondo-oil-producing-communities-marginalised-says-aspirant.html

Ajibs
Mar 12, 2012, 06:40 PM
God knows I hate taking this Adult Evening Classes...ok Adult pupils N.A.R. and Obugi listen to me and listen to me good:

@N.A.R,
There is nothing sacrosanct about Nigeria as it is that we have to make it work by force, moreso rhat we have experimented with a better system in the past. Malaysia and Singapore are doing beautifully better apart.

@Obugi,
Governance is not a private enterprise, it is a social contract. Government has a duty to maintain a balance in the economy.

Tonsoyo,
You have not dispelled my argument. I have not anywhere stated we must only exist as One Nigeria. There is nothing that forces Nigeria to exists as one country, at the same time, there is also absolutely nothing that prevents us from getting it right. Nigeria as presently constituted CAN co-exist together as a nation provided all parties come to the table and mutually agree to co-exist. Cheikena.

If we cannot co-exist, fine we split. BUT we need to have that discussion on our decision and ability to co-exist OR NOT before we conclude that we cannot. Thus far we have not had the discussion on our own terms regardless of the over 50 years of existence. As we agree today Nigeria is a fake colonial entity.

Let us have the honest discourse first and then we will all know what will come next. I am not interested a in One Nigeria just for the heck of having one.

Ajibs
Mar 12, 2012, 06:57 PM
NAR, that your report get as e be o.

Na crude oil the refinery go dey produce again? That one no tell you say the report na 419?

But if na correct report, and LASG is involved, you can bet your last kobo the fuel ain't gonna be cheap.

MJ,
Yes that was a red flag on the crude oil issue. But I think it is a typo, juts Google it and you will find several stories on the deal some others are:


China to build $8bn oil refinery in Nigeria (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10527308)

Nigeria is a crude oil producer and exporter, but must import refined fuel
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

It will be the first of three refineries under a deal signed in May between Nigeria's state oil company, NNPC, and the China State Construction Engineering Corporation (CSCEC).

The refinery will be built in the Lekki free trade zone of Lagos, Nigeria's biggest city.

The Chinese will cover 80% of the cost, and NNPC 20%, while the state of Lagos will provide land and infrastructure.

Under the $23bn framework agreement signed in May, NNPC and CSEC will also build two other refineries, in Bayelsa and Kogi, as well as a fuel complex.

Nigeria already has four refineries, but they are widely seen to be poorly maintained and only running at 40% of capacity.

As a result, the African country must currently import refined fuel, even though it is a major crude oil producer and exporter.

You see they will build the refinery in their own Chinese Free Zone which just happens to be in Lekki...

The deal is a smart one. They know they can export products easily from Lagos and Bayelsa, and then they "dash" Nigeria the products from Kogi. Next we will hear River Niger is being dredged all over again by a Chinese company...


Nigeria, China Sign Agreement to Build $8 Billion Refinery, ThisDay Says
By Bloomberg News - Jul 5, 2010 11:52 PM ET

Nigeria and China have signed an agreement to build the West African nation's biggest oil refinery at a cost of $8 billion, ThisDay reported, without saying where it got the information.
The 300,000 barrel-a-day refinery will be located in the Lekki Free Trade Zone in Lagos state, according to the report. China State Construction Engineering Corp. will take up 80 percent of the project funding, while government-owned Nigerian National Petroleum Corp. will be responsible for the rest, the Lagos-based newspaper said.

Nigeria's four existing refineries have a combined capacity of 445,000 barrels a day. As they are unable to operate at full production because of ageing equipment and poor maintenance, Africa's largest crude oil producer has to depend on imports to meet its oil-product needs.
Chinese investors will hold a stake of at least 25 percent in the refinery, ThisDay said, citing Billy Agha, Nigerian National's executive director in charge of engineering and technology. Calls to China State Construction's press office for comment went unanswered.

To contact the reporter on this story: Ying Wang in Beijing at ywang30@bloomberg.net

Obugi
Mar 14, 2012, 02:55 PM
Mikky Jaga,


Nigeria has been practicing free market since independence, what has it got out of it? Obafemi Awolowo practiced welfarism when the Regions were still in existence, it worked. Free market will not work where corruption thrives as it is in Nigeria today.

It took the House Probe to expose what corruption does in a situation of deregulated economy. When NNPC was the sole importer of refined products into the country, we were told it was NNPC's monopoly that was responsible for fuel scarcity. Importation of fuel was deregulated and briefcase importers surfaced to collect subsidies for fuel not imported.

Nigeria is hopeless. It must be dismantled. But before then, government must take responsibility for its inability to tackle corruption by paying Nigerians as much as it pays the corrupt people it knows but cannot handle.

I meant to call you out on this post but got sidetracked. It illustrates why monopolies and welfare state will NOT work in Nigeria.

1. Awolowo's welfare legacy worked so well because he was governing a quasi autonomous region decisively dominated by a single ethnic group.

2 Nigerias formal sector was heavily regulated and dominated by monopolies and price fixing. I'm sure I don't need to illustrate. SAP was the turning point and I've shown this over and over.

Your post is completely inaccurate.

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Obugi
May 6, 2012, 04:40 PM
NAR,


Obugi
That is a lot to take in and as we have been saying, Government needs no matter how imperfect to get out to the oil industry and regulate only. NNPC is making a killing in that country.

I have a question for your circle of insiders, simple, what do they think about the PIB law, the FG is trying to enact? Will it make any difference?

The answer to your question may be here:

LINK: Author Interview on Exxon Mobile (http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=151842205)


COLL: Yeah, I think that's right. And if you look at the world from ExxonMobil's perspective at their headquarters in Irving, Texas, their business is to own oil and gas. And every year they pump out the equivalent of four and a half million barrels of oil a day, which is makes them, you know, about the same as Iraq as an oil producer. And every year they have to replace their ownership of that much oil and gas that they've pumped out and sold. So their basic problem is they wake up every day and they say where are we going to find oil and gas that we can buy in this world? And for the reasons that we were talking about earlier, that most countries or many countries in the Middle East won't allow them in the door. In Saudi Arabia you cannot own oil and gas. In Iran you cannot own oil and gas. In many parts of the world it's very difficult to get access because of this nationalism around oil. So the reality is that there's really only two places, if you're Exxon Mobil, where you can buy oil and gas. One is in the free market West where anybody can own property, but where there hasn't been a lot of growth in the discovery of oil and gas, at least until recently. And then the other place is in weak states, where governments can't do it themselves. And many of those weak states are run by dictators. So 25 percent, or so, of ExxonMobil's oil liquid's production in a given year today, takes place in West Africa - countries like Equatorial Guinea, Chad, Nigeria, Angola. Now these are troubled states and the stability that arises there is often enforced by an authoritarian leader whose power is, itself, paid for by the revenue he gets from oil companies and oil sales.

GROSS: Is it in part because it's so difficult to get access to new oil reserves now, that ExxonMobil got into the gas fracking business and that's extracting gas from shale, from rock, through a complicated process of chemicals and drilling?

COLL: That is the reason, exactly. When you look out at the world, not only is it hard to find oil abroad, but when you look at home where property rights are more favorable for any corporation, the only really new frontiers are either in deep water or very cold places that are opening up - like the Arctic, or Alaska or the Gulf of Mexico - frontiers in a technological sense - or these new sources of what are called the unconventional gas reserves, shale gas, gas located in methane beds and - that was previously known to exist but was difficult to access in an economical way. And now, as you know, there's this boom in the United States around these unconventional sources of natural gas, in particular, also some oil but mostly gas, and Exxon Mobil has moved into this in a big way because it is an answer to their basic problem of replacing reserves every year.

Overall, the balance of their portfolio, the oil and gas they own, is shifting from oil toward gas and its shifting onshore, as they say, back to the United States. They made a big purchase in 2010 of the leading unconventional gas producer in the United States, XTO and that has put them front and center into a fracking debate.

Africa is the only place left where the West is still dominant enough to "own" oil !

Africa is the only place left where the natives willingly submit themselves to neo-colonial domination and exploitation.

This is so sad! And I'm hearing that the PIB has been seriously watered down. You can guess who's behind that.....

Kai, this is so shameful!

! The Cabal Lives On !
Obugi

Obugi
Jan 20, 2013, 09:59 AM
Ajibs & Mikky Jaga,

Are those refineries working at full capacity yet ???? :lol:

I messed up the quoting from Aji's post, but the most important thing to note is the date of that NNPC statement - Feb 17, 2012.

Yeeeessssss, let govt build and operate more refineries :lol:

Let them take back PHCN too and give us electricity jare. And all the banks too, and airlines and NITEL. Don't forget the cement factories.




PH Refineries To Work at Full Capacity in November (http://www.nnpcgroup.com/PublicRelations/NNPCinthenews/tabid/92/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/343/PH-refineries-to-work-at-full-capacity-November.aspx)


NNPC sPH Refineries To Work at Full Capacity in November

Port Harcourt Refineries are expected to work optimally from October this year after a Turn-Around Maintenance (TAM), the NNPC has announced. Group Executive Director, Refining and Petrochemicals, Engr Philip Chukwu, said this in Port Harcourt recently during an inspection of the refineries with officials of Maire Tecnimont, the contractors which the Federal Government engaged for the TAM. Chukwu, who decried the lack of maintenance of the twin Port Harcourt refineries in the last 12 years, commended the Federal Government for engaging the original constructors of the refineries for the TAM, the Chiyoda Group of Japan. "Everyone knows that the refineries have not been properly maintained over the years and we have had to manage things. What we are doing now is to have the TAM and complete rehabilitation of the refineries by the original contractors," he said. The two Port Harcourt refineries, which consist of the old refinery with capacity to process 60, 000 b/d and 150, 000 b/d, respectively, had been functioning at low capacity with the old one not working at the moment because of lack of maintenance. Chukwu explained that the TAM, which would start in October, would require a total shutdown of the plants for between 45 days and 60 days to ensure a thorough job. He said the TAM and rehabilitation process would also entail overhauling the supply chain and pipelines that bring crude oil and capacity building for staff so as to meet international best practice. He said the NNPC was also working with all stakeholders, including security operatives, to ensure the pipelines were safe and no longer vandalised. PHRC Managing Director, Engr Anthony U. Ogbuigwe, in his remarks after taking the contractors round the plants expressed optimism that the refinery would begin to work at 90 per cent capacity by November this year. He said preliminary work on the TAM started since late 2010 and the present stage would signal the return to full production of the refineries. He said that the NNPC had already placed order for all the equipment necessary for the TAM, noting that the inspection by the management of the construction company would help to fast-track the whole process. Managing Director, Maire Tecnimont Group of Italy, Mr Roberto Bertocco, said in his remarks that the company which had been on ground in Nigeria for the past 30 years would be working with JGC Engineering, Japan, original builders of the refinery. "I can assure you of a very good job on this project. We have been working with JGC in many parts of the world, so we are also collaborating with them on this project because we have been on ground in Nigeria for the past 30 years," he said. He expressed optimism that the refineries would be working at full capacity by the end of the year. It would be recalled that the old Port Harcourt refinery was built in 1965 with an initial capacity of 35,000 b/d which was later expanded to 60,000 bpd in 1972. The new wing of the refinery was built in 1989 with a 150,000 b/d capacity to meet local consumption of petroleum products and for export.A Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) is expected to be signed between the management of Maire Tecnimont, the Minister of Petroleum Resources, Mrs Dieziani Allison-Madueke and NNPC officials in Abuja.
17/02/2012



!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Jan 21, 2013, 08:50 AM
Ajibs & Mikky Jaga,

Are those refineries working at full capacity yet ???? :lol:

I messed up the quoting from Aji's post, but the most important thing to note is the date of that NNPC statement - Feb 17, 2012.

Yeeeessssss, let govt build and operate more refineries :lol:

Let them take back PHCN too and give us electricity jare. And all the banks too, and airlines and NITEL. Don't forget the cement factories.



!Get Yours!
Obugi

The problem is not whether the refineries are working or not. The problem is that GEJ is only interested in perpetuating fraud in the oil industry.

Kaduna refinery is working. Warri refinery is working. Port harcourt Refinery is working. But in spite of all these, Subsidy claims keeps on increasing. Jonathan recently sent an additional request to the NA for supplementary approval for subsidy payment.

The problem is what Nigerians have been calling out the government on - Lack of transparency in the oil industry. GEJ's government will not allow Nigerians know how much fuel is imported, how much is produced locally and how the subsidy payment comes about. If Nigeria is producing, then we will have to import less and the subsidy payment should reduce, but in Nigeria, the more you look, the less you see.

The solution is not withdrawing any so called subsidy. After the corrupt government has finished squandering the money realized, it will come round to detect another subsidy that must be removed. Let the GEJ make the oil industry transparent. Let Nigerians know what is going on and Nigerians will be willing to monitor what goes on. But I know as well as Jonathan that once there is transparency, all those bogus subsidy claims will disappear into thin air.

Obugi
Jan 21, 2013, 11:42 AM
Mikky!

The refineries are working, but at what capacity?

How is the fuel produced ALLOCATED?

President Jonathan tried to end this corrupt subsidy system and people like you refused. When I get a chance I'll post some surprising headlines from IPMAN and the govt.

And the illegal fuel market is booming. I've heard that thanks to the govt monopoly, it's very profitable. You buy 150,000 worth of fuel in Degema and sell at 350,000, 100% profit AFTER the group pays off the soldiers and others.

Let subsidy and govt monopoly continue - I love it!

!Life Is A Market!
Obugi.

Obugi
Jan 21, 2013, 06:36 PM
Mikky!

LINK: IPMAN Can't Sell At 97 (http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/01/we-cant-sell-petrol-at-n97-per-litre-ipman/)


BY VICTOR AHIUMA-YOUNG, Johnbosco Agbakwuru & Godwin Oritse
LAGOS " THE Independent Petroleum Marketers Association of Nigeria, IPMAN, Eastern Zone, has said that it was not possible to sell Premium Motor Spirit, PMS, otherwise known as petrol, at the government approved N97 per litre in the South-East.

The association said this was because it buys the product at N105 from private tank owners.

The zonal acting chairman, Mr. Chukwudi Ezinwa, stated this, weekend, in Calabar, Cross River State. Speaking on the state of the petroleum sector, Ezinwa lamented that only three of the 21 depots in Nigeria were functioning but at below 50 per cent capacity.

And the govt says......


LINK: You Must Sell At 97, Says Govt (http://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/01/selling-fuel-above-n97-is-criminal-maku/)


Aba (Abia) - The Minister of Information, Mr Labaran Maku, says is it is criminal for the petroleum marketers to sell the product above the official pump prize of N97.

Maku said this while fielding questions at Osisioma Depot, near Aba, Abia, during the Good Governance tour of the state on Friday.

"It is criminal for people to come and take fuel here at N97 when the government has already paid the balance between N97 and the market prize.

"You come and get government subsidy in this depot and all other depots in the country, then they move out and sell fuel at N150 per litre, this is highly criminal.

"That is problem with Nigeria and that is why the President Goodluck Jonathan is insisting that with the subsidy, some people are stealing from national patrimony in subsidy.

"You can see now, you are confessing that people come to the depot and buy fuel at N97 which is what the president is saying, but unfortunately for us, our people are not honest,'' he said.

Maku said that it was criminal for the marketers to get the product at N97 only to sell above it.

"People talk about corruption, but there is nothing more than corruption when a citizen will come and take fuel here at N97 and sell at N150, which means he is taking N97 from government.

"Taking about N60 from government subsidy and then another N50 from the public and selling close to N200 per a litre, so he invest N97 and sell to the public at almost N200.

He urged the media to report such marketers and follow up the investigations.

"The Federal government is subsidising fuel, some Nigerians are selling at exorbitant prizes after taking subsidy from government and government cannot be in every filling station in Nigeria, it is not possible.''


And the good thing is the prices are above 97 even in Lagos. Let them come out and protest....

LINK: Time To Occupy Nigeria As Lagos, Ogun Fuel Prices At 105 - 120 (http://www.punchng.com/business/business-economy/dpr-indifferent-as-filling-stations-continue-cheating-customers/)


In what many market watchers see as indifference on the part of the Department of Petroleum Resources, the filling stations seem to have perfected the art of short- changing customers by capitalising on the inadequate supply of products, especially petrol, which became apparent in the last quarter of 2012.

Filling stations in most states of the federation are currently selling petrol above the N97 per litre that the Federal Government pegged the price after last January's protest against the removal of subsidy on the product.

Before now, Lagos and Ogun states appeared to be insulated against the sale of petrol above the official price, but findings by our correspondent on Saturday and Sunday showed that most filling stations in both states were now openly selling above N97 per litre.

In both states, as indeed other parts of the country, the product is now being sold at prics ranging from N105 to N120 per litre.

Our correspondent, who drove into a filling station along Ikotun road, Lagos on Sunday afternoon, was informed before buying the product that the price was N105 per litre, though the dispensing machine still displayed the regulated price of N97.

Time to Occupy Nigeria ooooo, where is NLC now? Make dem come save us!

:lol::lol::lol:

Meanwhile.......


LINK: Trust Government -Fuel Subsidy Acct Is Empty, Says Okonjo-Iweala!!! (http://www.punchng.com/news/why-fuel-subsidy-account-is-empty-okonjo-iweala/)

:D

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Jan 22, 2013, 10:19 AM
The marketers are only taking a cue from the corrupt government. That is the reason the government cannot do anything about the marketers' selling above recommended price.The Minister can only cry out in the media but nothing will be done to compel the marketers to sell at recommended price.

The marketers know the government does not pay them up to a quarter of what it claimed as fuel subsidy money. So, if the government is using the fuel subsidy thing to perpetrate fraud, why should the marketers that bear the brunt of getting the fuel to Nigerians not make their own from their labour too?

Until Nigeria has a transparent government in place, a government that will not rubbish the effort of Ribadun that exposed a tiny fraction of fraud in the oil industry, the Nation will be perpetually held hostage by fraudsters both public and private and the rest of us will always resist any attempt to pass the buck to us.

Obugi
Jan 22, 2013, 02:10 PM
Mikky!



Until Nigeria has a transparent government in place, a government that will not rubbish the effort of Ribadun that exposed a tiny fraction of fraud in the oil industry, the Nation will be perpetually held hostage by fraudsters both public and private and the rest of us will always resist any attempt to pass the buck to us.

Is that not what I've been trying to teach you all these months - SUBSIDY WILL NEVER WORK IN A FAKE NATION LIKE NIGERIA!!!

I wrote it many many times! Welcome to the club my brother.

As for resisting, well go and protest. What is NLC waiting for? It should be clear to everyone now that NLC officials are chopping subsidy money. If they were really concerned about the suffering of working people, they would be on strike demanding strict adherence to the official price.

Everything I predicted is happening. Make una go buy cheap fuel make we see.....

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Ajibs
Jan 22, 2013, 03:07 PM
Ajibs & Mikky Jaga,

Are those refineries working at full capacity yet ???? :lol:

I messed up the quoting from Aji's post, but the most important thing to note is the date of that NNPC statement - Feb 17, 2012.

Yeeeessssss, let govt build and operate more refineries :lol:

Let them take back PHCN too and give us electricity jare. And all the banks too, and airlines and NITEL. Don't forget the cement factories.



!Get Yours!
Obugi

Obugi,
Here is what Madam is saying now...



Refineries to Hit 90% Production Capacity by 2014 - Alison-Madueke (http://www.nnpcgroup.com/PublicRelations/NNPCinthenews/tabid/92/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/394/Refineries-to-Hit-90-Production-Capacity-by-2014-Alison-Madueke.aspx)

The Minister of Petroleum Resources, Mrs. Diezani Alison-Madueke, has unveiled a new plan to increase the local refining capacity of the nation's three refineries to 90% of installed capacity by 2014. The Minister who made this revelation at a meeting convened by the Senate Committee on Petroleum (Downstream) to find solutions to the shortage of petroleum products in some parts of the country caused by distribution challenges, explained that the planned Turn-Around Maintenance and upgrade of the three refineries could not hold as earlier scheduled because of the negative travel advisory given by the Japanese authorities to JGC, the original builders of the Port Harcourt Refinery which stopped them from coming for the upgrade and maintenance of the refinery. "With that hurdle surmounted, we have put in place a new plan to complete the new schedules and timelines to bring the refineries back to life and get them to run at higher capacity.



The maintenance and upgrade work will start with the Port Harcourt Refinery which has stayed the longest period without a turn-around maintenance," she explained. Alison-Madueke further stated that the contract for the project will soon be signed and that rehabilitation and upgrade work will move from the Port Harcourt Refinery to the Kaduna and Warri Refineries in that order until the last one "comes on stream by the beginning of the last quarter of 2014". Asked by the Chairman of the Committee, Senator Magnus Abe, to shed light on the cost implication of the project and the expected production figure at the end of the rehabilitation work, the Minister put the cost of the maintenance and upgrade of the three refineries at $1.6bn, adding that the refineries would produce at 90% installed capacity. On the fuel supply challenges, she explained that a mixture of factors ranging from unsettled subsidy claims which hamstrung some private product marketers from importing products and the breakage of the System.

Forget FG I begi. What are you industry friends telling you about the private Oriental refinery and has Akpabio settled on the Akwa Ibom refinery yet?

Obugi
Jan 22, 2013, 03:49 PM
Aji,

I haven't been able to get much info on the Akwa Ibom refinery.

On Oriental, it's nowhere near ready, forget the commissioning and all that. My investor fund lady assures me that as long as subsidy and price fix remains, Oriental will be asking the Fed Govt for a producer subsidy. All of the license holders would still rather have the subsidy and price fix gone - complete price deregulation.

Illegal or black market fuel is the most profitable game in Nigeria right now. So I hear....

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Mikky jaga
Jan 22, 2013, 06:14 PM
Mikky!



Is that not what I've been trying to teach you all these months - SUBSIDY WILL NEVER WORK IN A FAKE NATION LIKE NIGERIA!!!

I wrote it many many times! Welcome to the club my brother.

As for resisting, well go and protest. What is NLC waiting for? It should be clear to everyone now that NLC officials are chopping subsidy money. If they were really concerned about the suffering of working people, they would be on strike demanding strict adherence to the official price.

Everything I predicted is happening. Make una go buy cheap fuel make we see.....

!Get Yours!
Obugi

Subsidy is working! If the government increased the fuel price to N200per litre under this wuruwuru arrangement, marketerss will up their profit too and sell at N240 per litre. The only way Nigerians will buy fuel at cheap price is to force the government to sell at lower price. The rogues in government and outside it will also get theirs but that is better than they making us sweat so they can be cooled.

emj
Jan 22, 2013, 06:34 PM
Aherm ...broken news...Christiane Amanpour is going to interview your president tomorrow ..Wednesday.
I came across that little news on FB........and trust the children of anger with 107 comments within an hour.

Anyway .....

Obugi
Jan 22, 2013, 08:46 PM
Mikky!


Subsidy is working!

The only way Nigerians will buy fuel at cheap price is to force the government to sell at lower price. .

:D

Shebi you said govt doesn't give you anything but you want to FORCE them to fix the price of fuel.

Keep it up. I'm waiting for you and NLC and ACN to call the suffering masses out to OCCUPY NIGERIA again. The CORRUPT Fed Govt and the Cabal are winning, please don't let them! :lol::lol::lol:

Occupy, protest, riot.....to the barricades, chop & quench continua, your nyash amnesia certina!

:rolleyes:

!Get Yours!
Obugi