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View Full Version : [General] Gender Equality in Nigeria, fact or Fiction, Myths Vs. Reality



Ajibs
Aug 22, 2010, 03:45 PM
I was going to write on this topic a few years ago and decided to hold off. But I always come back to this issue.

The question is: Is there gender equality in Nigeria?

Then there are sub questions: How does Nigeria compare to other countries? Are Nigerian women hit by that "glass ceiling" known to exists in America?

If you are looking to me to quote some fantastic report and more, sorry, I am writing this from my personal observations and knowledge, maybe if any of you out there have done a study, they please let us know.

Now from what I see in Nigeria, it appears to me that when it comes to women's issues and womens rights we have done pretty well, let me be clear, we can do much much more, but in many ways I think Nigeria is more gender equal that even the United States! And it is more gender equal that we may thing it is. Tough we must consider that in certain parts of Nigeria, like Northern Nigeria, women are still very much repressed.

In Nigeria, governments over the years have made it a point to ensure that its female population have the same opportunities the male population have. The major problem I see that has been a hindrance to the female population breaking the glass ceiling in all areas are by and large the traditional values that exist in many societies in Nigeria.

Many traditional cultures still put the woman in the tradtional homemaker role and baby factory role, hence women are still shut out from many positions. But having said that, let me come back to what I mean by Nigeria has done quite a bit to promote gender equality. Consider the following:

1. Government years ago, established two Secondary School systems in Nigeria: The Federal Government Colleges (FGC's) and the Federal Government Girls Colleges (FGGC's). I would argue, without any statistics, that a great percentage of the successful women in government and the corporate world today are products of FGGC's.

2. Still on the issues of FGGC's you should consider that the FGC's were also coed, so this means that Nigerian girls had two opportunities at a good education in their states either at an FGC or an FGGC.

3. If you look around in Nigeria, women are very prominent in ALL positions, not just positions assumed where women can play a role like say child care, women affairs et al. Consider the following powerful women: Ngozi Iweala, Ex Minister of Finaince, Cecilia Ibru Ex Ocieanic Bank Chairwoman, Otunba Bola Kuforiji Olubi: Ex UBA CEO and Minister. Of course Madam Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti civil rights activist and of course the mother to 3 notable Nigerians, Professor Olikoye Ransome-Kuti, Dr. Beko Ransome-Kuti, and of course Fela Kuti! and grandmother to Femi Kuti!! Prof. Grace Alele-Williams, Ex VC University of Benin and Hon. Justice Aloma Mariam Mukhtar, Supreme court Justice and many many more. See the link below for a few more notable Nigerian women:

http://www.thisdayonline.com/archive/2002/05/12/20020512pol02.html

4.When you look around, in Nigeria it does appear that women have broken almost all the glass ceilings out there. The current EFCC head is a woman, so was the head of the Stock exchange. We have had several notable female ministers and we have had and currently do have female deputy governors. A woman has been elected speaker of the house, though removed in disgrace. Like the United States, the glass ceiling exists at the highest office in the land, and I believe we are yet to see a Female state governor. So the ceiling does exist.

But the question still remains, do the achievements of those distinguished women really indicate that Nigeria is gender equal? If not, where is Nigeria as regards gender equality? Do the women in Nigeria get the same pay scale as their male counterparts? Is the female single parent no longer a pariah in Nigeria? How about the Northern issue of child marriages?

The bottom line is women today in Nigeria, do have the freedom to be whatever they want, go wherever they want and set whatever goal they desire (Save for that glass ceiling of president). They have the tools and opportunities to success. Or am I being myopic in this conclusion? It appears it is not longer strange to apply for a job in Nigeria and find your boss being a woman, or is it?

It appears to me that Nigeria has made significant strides in Gender equality, much more that many of our counterpart nations, and maybe in at par with some Western countries. But there are still significant drawbacks.

So what is you opinion on gender equality in Nigeria? And who are the notable successful Nigeria woman you know. By the way going back in history we must not forget women like Queen Amina of Zaria, Emotan of Benin and Moremi of Ife.

valteena
Aug 22, 2010, 04:11 PM
Is there any country developed or not that has attained gender equal how much more Nigeria?. Don't think so. Yes some have made great stride in gender equality but the fact remains that women are still decades away from attaining the same status as men in all spheres and Nigeria is no exception.

The pace of change in women's quest for equality in Nigeria is particular very slow. A critical examination of the status of women in Nigeria shows that despite the strides made by some women like those you mentioned above, our women remain at the lower rung of the ladder in all spheres of our society be it education, economic/finance, health, security, politics etc.

In politics in particular, women's position as the underdog is even more glaring. For instance, only three percent of Nigerian women hold an elective or appointive position at the federal, state and local levels.
According to records, in 1999, there were only 12 women elected into the State Assemblies as against 978 males. Also only three women out of 109 senators were elected into the Senate in the same year, while 13 women were equally elected into the House of Representatives as against 347 men.

In 2003 for instance, the number of women who participated in elections increased slightly. In the State Assemblies, 39 women were elected as against 951 men. Also only 6.1 percent (21 women) were elected into the House of Representativesin contrast to 339 male House of Representatives members and 3.7 percent that is 4 women were elected into the Senate, against 105 males senators.
Even in appointment into offices, records from 1999 showed that 833 persons were appointed with 86 of them women, representing only 11.9 percent.

The 2007 elections was no difference, the figures as collated from the database of the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) showed that a total 7160 candidates (both men and women) contested in the April elections. Of this number, only 628 women participated.
Out of the twenty five candidates that viewed for the office of the President, only one is a woman. Five women contested for the office of the Vice President.
474 candidates contested for the gubernatorial elections in the thirty-six states of the federation.
Of this, only 14 women contested for the office of governor. 21 contested for the office of deputy governor. 799 contested for the senate, with only 59 women 2342 candidates contested for the House of Representatives, with 150 women ' 5647 contested for the State Assemblies with 358 women.

From the records so far, there are nine female senators out of 109 senators and 27 women in the House of Representatives of 360 members.
There are fifty-four female members of the State Assemblies. This is a mere two percent improvement on the gains of the 2003 general elections.

These figures say a lot about where women are today in Nigeria when it comes to gender equality. And the fundamental factor responsible for the almost inconsequential role of women in our society and politics in particular is the patriarchial nature of our society. It has disabled women to a less privileged status so that economically, and otherwise they are unable to match the men in political activities especially in our political climate where money politics and god fatherism is the vogue. Not to talk of the violence and sexual harassment that still pervade our electoral system.

These factors though not peculiar to Nigeria, does seem more entrenched in our country and it will take a radical reordering of our society to change this.

Ajibs
Aug 22, 2010, 04:28 PM
For those who want to read reports and statistics, I found some information see the following links:

http://www.wikigender.org/w/index.php/Gender_Equality_in_Nigeria


The status of Nigerian women in the family is not sufficiently protected: several inequalities remain because of tradition. There are three forms of marriage in the country: monogamous marriage registered under the civil marriage law, customary marriage and Islamic marriage. In southern Nigeria, the minimum legal age for marriage is between 18 and 21 years of age, depending on the region; in the north it ranges from 12 to 15 years. In some regions, customary law allows girls to marry from the age of only nine years; such marriages are banned in two states, but remain common overall. The incidence of early marriage is high in Nigeria: a 2004 United Nations report estimated that 28% of girls between 15 and 19 years of age were married, divorced or widowed.

Now I want to add that where I see inequality as regards tradition. I remember when I was in Ife one of our most favorite Chemistry lectures died, he I believe was an Igbo man (important to note to confirm or dispel the tradition please). His wife, was also a lecturer at the university. I had a friend that lived opposite his house in a BQ and once when I went to visit, I noticed that Profs old car was now on stones and no tires, I asked my friend, haba how did all the tires go bad at one time and should we go and ask Madam if she needed help?

His answers completely took me for a loop, basically, there had been drama at the house for several weeks now after Prof's death. Why? Well apparently Prof's family from the east came to the house and told the wife that ALL the things in the house now belonged to them now that their brother was dead as they were their brothers and that means it is family property. They then proceeded to try and take everything they could from the house. It was the intervention of himself and other students and neighbors that heard the woman's cry that went to the rescue and ensured that they took nothing, but they kept coming back, swearing heaven and earth they must take their property. So somebody suggested that the car be put on stones to prevent it from being taken when no one was at home. As of course the house would be locked.

I heard the story in amazement, and I could not believe what I just heard, you mean to tell me that some "tradition" believes the woman had no rights over her and her late husbands properties, most likely jointly acquired???? It appears that this tradition may indeed be true. This would be an example of a severe lack of gender equality in Nigeria. How common are such occurrences?

Ajibs
Aug 23, 2010, 06:39 PM
Valteena,
GEJ Seems to be in support of more women in politics, from his facebook page:


Goodluck Jonathan To demonstrate my belief that women are equal stakeholders in Nigeria as men, I recently appointed Prof Precious Kassey Garba as the first female Chief Economic Adviser to the President in Nigerian history. I hope this appointment as well as the performance of the Falconets at the recently concluded Female U-20 World Cup in Germany would spur women to enter the political arena and run for elective offices in 2011.GEJ
12 hours ago

First-lady
Aug 23, 2010, 07:25 PM
For those who want to read reports and statistics, I found some information see the following links:

http://www.wikigender.org/w/index.php/Gender_Equality_in_Nigeria



Now I want to add that where I see inequality as regards tradition. I remember when I was in Ife one of our most favorite Chemistry lectures died, he I believe was an Igbo man (important to note to confirm or dispel the tradition please). His wife, was also a lecturer at the university. I had a friend that lived opposite his house in a BQ and once when I went to visit, I noticed that Profs old car was now on stones and no tires, I asked my friend, haba how did all the tires go bad at one time and should we go and ask Madam if she needed help?

His answers completely took me for a loop, basically, there had been drama at the house for several weeks now after Prof's death. Why? Well apparently Prof's family from the east came to the house and told the wife that ALL the things in the house now belonged to them now that their brother was dead as they were their brothers and that means it is family property. They then proceeded to try and take everything they could from the house. It was the intervention of himself and other students and neighbors that heard the woman's cry that went to the rescue and ensured that they took nothing, but they kept coming back, swearing heaven and earth they must take their property. So somebody suggested that the car be put on stones to prevent it from being taken when no one was at home. As of course the house would be locked.

I heard the story in amazement, and I could not believe what I just heard, you mean to tell me that some "tradition" believes the woman had no rights over her and her late husbands properties, most likely jointly acquired???? It appears that this tradition may indeed be true. This would be an example of a severe lack of gender equality in Nigeria. How common are such occurrences?

Sadly this is a true story but thankfully it is not a Pan Igbo Culture.
Some parts of Igboland specifically Ohafia and Abiriba people have this ugly tradition you just described whereby the relatives of a dead man come in and practically sweep out a woman from her matrimonial home taking everything their brother owned including curtain blinds.
My good friend told me a story where a widow saw a woman going to the local market wearing clothes made out of her curtains.
The men from that area are now wiser,many of them now marry wives from outside those localities since this rule doesn't apply to a wife married from other towns.
The second way they avoid this ugly incidence being meted out on their widows is by having a living will such that the courts can come down on these traditional thieves.
The women have become wiser too.
Those whose husbands have a protracted illness before death, quickly hide and move all the valuables to another location, have their landed property changed to their names or those of their sons.
Sad that a woman has to take care of a sick husband and also battle with saving whatever stuff they may have.
Imagine losing a husband tragically and within hours his relatives land like vultures to collect property.
That is a very wicked tradition IMHO.
Most tradition are either fetish or wicked anyway,I hate almost all of them.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------


I was going to write on this topic a few years ago and decided to hold off. But I always come back to this issue.

The question is: Is there gender equality in Nigeria?

Then there are sub questions: How does Nigeria compare to other countries? Are Nigerian women hit by that "glass ceiling" known to exists in America?

If you are looking to me to quote some fantastic report and more, sorry, I am writing this from my personal observations and knowledge, maybe if any of you out there have done a study, they please let us know.

Now from what I see in Nigeria, it appears to me that when it comes to women's issues and womens rights we have done pretty well, let me be clear, we can do much much more, but in many ways I think Nigeria is more gender equal that even the United States! And it is more gender equal that we may thing it is. Tough we must consider that in certain parts of Nigeria, like Northern Nigeria, women are still very much repressed.

In Nigeria, governments over the years have made it a point to ensure that its female population have the same opportunities the male population have. The major problem I see that has been a hindrance to the female population breaking the glass ceiling in all areas are by and large the traditional values that exist in many societies in Nigeria.

Many traditional cultures still put the woman in the tradtional homemaker role and baby factory role, hence women are still shut out from many positions. But having said that, let me come back to what I mean by Nigeria has done quite a bit to promote gender equality. Consider the following:

1. Government years ago, established two Secondary School systems in Nigeria: The Federal Government Colleges (FGC's) and the Federal Government Girls Colleges (FGGC's). I would argue, without any statistics, that a great percentage of the successful women in government and the corporate world today are products of FGGC's.

2. Still on the issues of FGGC's you should consider that the FGC's were also coed, so this means that Nigerian girls had two opportunities at a good education in their states either at an FGC or an FGGC.

3. If you look around in Nigeria, women are very prominent in ALL positions, not just positions assumed where women can play a role like say child care, women affairs et al. Consider the following powerful women: Ngozi Iweala, Ex Minister of Finaince, Cecilia Ibru Ex Ocieanic Bank Chairwoman, Otunba Bola Kuforiji Olubi: Ex UBA CEO and Minister. Of course Madam Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti civil rights activist and of course the mother to 3 notable Nigerians, Professor Olikoye Ransome-Kuti, Dr. Beko Ransome-Kuti, and of course Fela Kuti! and grandmother to Femi Kuti!! Prof. Grace Alele-Williams, Ex VC University of Benin and Hon. Justice Aloma Mariam Mukhtar, Supreme court Justice and many many more. See the link below for a few more notable Nigerian women:

http://www.thisdayonline.com/archive/2002/05/12/20020512pol02.html

4.When you look around, in Nigeria it does appear that women have broken almost all the glass ceilings out there. The current EFCC head is a woman, so was the head of the Stock exchange. We have had several notable female ministers and we have had and currently do have female deputy governors. A woman has been elected speaker of the house, though removed in disgrace. Like the United States, the glass ceiling exists at the highest office in the land, and I believe we are yet to see a Female state governor. So the ceiling does exist.

But the question still remains, do the achievements of those distinguished women really indicate that Nigeria is gender equal? If not, where is Nigeria as regards gender equality? Do the women in Nigeria get the same pay scale as their male counterparts? Is the female single parent no longer a pariah in Nigeria? How about the Northern issue of child marriages?

The bottom line is women today in Nigeria, do have the freedom to be whatever they want, go wherever they want and set whatever goal they desire (Save for that glass ceiling of president). They have the tools and opportunities to success. Or am I being myopic in this conclusion? It appears it is not longer strange to apply for a job in Nigeria and find your boss being a woman, or is it?

It appears to me that Nigeria has made significant strides in Gender equality, much more that many of our counterpart nations, and maybe in at par with some Western countries. But there are still significant drawbacks.

So what is you opinion on gender equality in Nigeria? And who are the notable successful Nigeria woman you know. By the way going back in history we must not forget women like Queen Amina of Zaria, Emotan of Benin and Moremi of Ife.


There is no gender equality anywhere in Nigeria
Period.
Let's start with widowhood practices in many localities

In some places,widows have been forced to sleep in the same room with the corpse of their husbands,drink the water washed off the body of the corpses to prove that they didn't kill the husband.
Some have had their hair shaved with broken bottles
Some made to sit on the floor and wail on demand
Some prevented from bathing for days on end
Some forced to eat with broken dishes
some are even inherited by their husband's brothers

men don't go through this rubbish
Actually in some cultures,a widower gets a young maiden to keep him warm as soon as his wife dies

That is the wickedness and inequality in that thing called tradition and culture

Ajibs
Aug 23, 2010, 08:11 PM
I stole this courtesy of First Lady from another thread. It applies to this discussion:


She said, ‘‘I am the fourth of seven children. We have always struggled to survive. But things became particularly bad after my paternal grandmother died. My elder siblings didn‘t have much of education either, so they are not better off. My eldest brother pushes a wheel barrow in the market for a living while my father is a farmer. I was fetching water one day when Nadum came around. He asked what I was doing at home and I said I had to stop school because there was no money. He then said it was a pity that a pretty girl like me was suffering when someone could have helped me to live a better life. Later, my father told me that I would go to Lagos with Nadum to be his house help, and in return, he (Nadum) would send me to school.‘‘

Nadum lived alone at his 2 Owode Street, Abule Egba, Lagos residence, while his wife and children lived abroad. Comfort said apart from household chores, she also assisted with the sale of compressors and air conditioners at Nadum's shop. She said that contrary to what her father had told her, she only attended school for a month after which Nadum ordered her to withdraw. ‘‘My boss pulled me out of school when he started molesting me,‘‘ she alleged. ‘‘I called my father and told him that he should come here and take me away, but he told me that he had no money to travel down to Lagos.‘‘

When our correspondent called Comfort‘s father on the phone and told him that his daughter was being incarcerated in Kirikiri Medium Prison and that she had been delivered of a baby boy, the man went hysterical. ‘‘I don‘t know why Nadum would do that to my child. I can never do such a thing to somebody else‘s child. I leave everything in the hands of God. He did all this to me and yet I didn‘t get a penny from him,‘‘ he said.

Asked if he intended to claim his grandchild, Comfort‘s father replied, ‘‘I don‘t have any money to come to Lagos.‘‘

I refer to the statement in Bold above. That statement is very crucial to the mindset of the father. And betrays the fact that he apparently does not condemn the abuse of his daughter.

First, this is why some of us are very mad both at Nigerians and the government. A man whom you trusted takes your kid, impregnates her, sends her to jail and you say you leave the matter to God????? You will not carry your cutlass and sharpen it well well and go and find that mugu?

The secondly, see the complaint of not getting a penny. Does this mean and it sure does look like it, IF Nadum had sent money back to the father he would have had no problem with her getting pregnant and having his baby? I shudder at the thought. Imagine that!

Now this story and even the response specifically from First Lady seems to indicate that our traditional ways are the greatest hindrance to gender equality in Nigeria. It is great though to see that somehow the Lagos State government found out about this case and seems to be doing something about it.

This seems like a case of modern day slavery to me. Could it really be poverty that made a man / father send off his 16 year old kids to live alone with a man half across the country? Does he mean to say he did not think she could be subject to sexual abuse?

First-lady
Aug 24, 2010, 01:11 AM
I stole this courtesy of First Lady from another thread. It applies to this discussion:



I refer to the statement in Bold above. That statement is very crucial to the mindset of the father. And betrays the fact that he apparently does not condemn the abuse of his daughter.

First, this is why some of us are very mad both at Nigerians and the government. A man whom you trusted takes your kid, impregnates her, sends her to jail and you say you leave the matter to God????? You will not carry your cutlass and sharpen it well well and go and find that mugu?

The secondly, see the complaint of not getting a penny. Does this mean and it sure does look like it, IF Nadum had sent money back to the father he would have had no problem with her getting pregnant and having his baby? I shudder at the thought. Imagine that!

Now this story and even the response specifically from First Lady seems to indicate that our traditional ways are the greatest hindrance to gender equality in Nigeria. It is great though to see that somehow the Lagos State government found out about this case and seems to be doing something about it.

This seems like a case of modern day slavery to me. Could it really be poverty that made a man / father send off his 16 year old kids to live alone with a man half across the country? Does he mean to say he did not think she could be subject to sexual abuse?

The underlying issue in that case is poverty
Poverty breeds desperation and desperate people would do anything.
The world is very unkind to desperate people
Desperation makes one vulnerable and people will take advantage of you.
My husband always uses the highlighted statement above.
You never ever want to appear desperate no matter how dire your situation may be but unfortunately the story of Miss Monday that you talked about was a matter of life and death literally.
Her father obviously is unable to feed ,let alone clothe 7 kids and the best option he thought about was send his 16 year old daughter to live with a grown man whose wife and kids reside somewhere else.
No man in normal circumstances would do that sort of thing.
But desperation would make you do what you wouldn't ordinarily do.
Sad story.

Someone on that thread said the parents should have known better and had less kids but how easy is that?
These are uneducated people and very poor people
They don't take their kids out for vacations
They don't go to the parks to play with them
They don't do movies or dinners
They are struggling to eat one meal a day
There is absolutely no source of recreation for the parents besides sex,an activity that doesn't cost money
They can't provide any source of contraception either,hence the kids

Obugi
Aug 24, 2010, 02:16 AM
People,

My comments refer to the Igbo traditions described on this thread.

Yes, the stripping of a widow's property is mainly practiced among the Ohafia and Abiriba area of Igboland.

With respect to Widowhood rites, most of this stuff listed below by Lateesha are LIES:


In some places,widows have been forced to sleep in the same room with the corpse of their husbands,drink the water washed off the body of the corpses to prove that they didn't kill the husband.
Some have had their hair shaved with broken bottles
Some made to sit on the floor and wail on demand
Some prevented from bathing for days on end
Some forced to eat with broken dishes
some are even inherited by their husband's brothers

BIG LIES. The one about drinking water washed off the corpse is simply an urban legend. I've done my practical asking and I know it's a lie.

The last one about inheriting wives used to happen, but doesn't anymore.....same as other customs like childhood engagements.

You forgot to add the one Soul Sista told us where Igbo widows are gang raped and flogged by masqurades. How did you miss that one? :rolleyes: It's amazing how much contempt our Africans have for themselves. You have to be a very base human being to dignify these slurs. If you're not intelligent enough to understand why they've been spread, you're the worst kind of gullible person.

The main indignity suffered by a widow in most of Igboland is having having her head shaved. The good thing is that it is going out of fashion and even then it is women who are most insistent on carrying on with the customs.

Widows do sit in a roped off enclosure during the funeral. They are confined to the immediate environs of the compound for varying lengths of time after the funeral.


men don't go through this rubbish

This is a lie.

When a woman dies in my hometown, her MALE children must walk barefoot to her birth village to inform her parents that she is dead. My father walked a distance of about 20 miles when my grandmother died.

Men get their heads shaved when their mothers and wives die.

Talking of Abiriba people, on their traditional wedding day, the groom must sit out in the sun on the ground for from dawn till evening with no food or drink waiting for his bride to arrive for the wedding.

That women suffering is highlighted in Igbo custom is simply a ploy by the Europeans and their Church to stigmatize, humiliate and humble the Igbo man and encourage women into rebellion against the community. It's a tactic to sow disaffection which has unfortunately succeeded.

Even our fellow Africans like Soul Sista and her Yoruba sisterhood use these issues to slur the Igbo while ignoring their own "bad" customs if one could use such terms. Meanwhile all these African "Christians" even in Europe and America go on to kill their "witch" children in the name of the same Jesus and wage pogroms against heathens living in their midst and when they hear of it do nothing about it. Hypocrites.

That is the African for you, constantly trampling their own to get crumbs from Oyibo.

Let's tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, not just the part that serves our interests. You can continue claiming to be a Christian without going to this depth of intellectual self abasement.

!Life is a Market!
Obugi.

First-lady
Aug 24, 2010, 03:42 AM
People,

My comments refer to the Igbo traditions described on this thread.

Yes, the stripping of a widow's property is mainly practiced among the Ohafia and Abiriba area of Igboland.

With respect to Widowhood rites, most of this stuff listed below by Lateesha are LIES:



BIG LIES. The one about drinking water washed off the corpse is simply an urban legend. I've done my practical asking and I know it's a lie.

The last one about inheriting wives used to happen, but doesn't anymore.....same as other customs like childhood engagements.

You forgot to add the one Soul Sista told us where Igbo widows are gang raped and flogged by masqurades. How did you miss that one? :rolleyes: It's amazing how much contempt our Africans have for themselves. You have to be a very base human being to dignify these slurs. If you're not intelligent enough to understand why they've been spread, you're the worst kind of gullible person.

The main indignity suffered by a widow in most of Igboland is having having her head shaved. The good thing is that it is going out of fashion and even then it is women who are most insistent on carrying on with the customs.

Widows do sit in a roped off enclosure during the funeral. They are confined to the immediate environs of the compound for varying lengths of time after the funeral.



This is a lie.

When a woman dies in my hometown, her MALE children must walk barefoot to her birth village to inform her parents that she is dead. My father walked a distance of about 20 miles when my grandmother died.

Men get their heads shaved when their mothers and wives die.

Talking of Abiriba people, on their traditional wedding day, the groom must sit out in the sun on the ground for from dawn till evening with no food or drink waiting for his bride to arrive for the wedding.

That women suffering is highlighted in Igbo custom is simply a ploy by the Europeans and their Church to stigmatize, humiliate and humble the Igbo man and encourage women into rebellion against the community. It's a tactic to sow disaffection which has unfortunately succeeded.

Even our fellow Africans like Soul Sista and her Yoruba sisterhood use these issues to slur the Igbo while ignoring their own "bad" customs if one could use such terms. Meanwhile all these African "Christians" even in Europe and America go on to kill their "witch" children in the name of the same Jesus and wage pogroms against heathens living in their midst and when they hear of it do nothing about it. Hypocrites.

That is the African for you, constantly trampling their own to get crumbs from Oyibo.

Let's tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, not just the part that serves our interests. You can continue claiming to be a Christian without going to this depth of intellectual self abasement.

!Life is a Market!
Obugi.

I don't make statements I can't prove
Do you need proof that those widowhood practices exist even if it were i in 50,000,it is one woman too many
I saved the link and the text many years ago in case the link doesn't work today.
get ready

---------- Post added at 04:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 AM ----------


SOUTH SOUTH -EDO STATE

In Bini land, widowhood rights are in two stages. First, the widow is confined to a room outside the family house for seven days immediately after the interment of the deceased husband. She is dressed in black with her hair left unkempt and, she is not allowed to take her bath. She must look mournful and sober and must cry, morning and evening. On the seventh day, a wake keeping ceremony is held and the widow is forbidden (by custom) to sleep because, the spirit of the dead man will come around and kill her if she is found sleeping! On the same day, she perform the semi-purification rites by taking her bath around 4.am at a road junction (all alone). Her safe return proves her innocence.

The Second stage of mourning begins at the end of the seventh day. The widow smears herself and her clothing with black charcoal and remains so for three months. At the end of the third month, the final purification, which admits her into the society, is performed. On inheritance, both the widow and property are inheritable objects.

Among the Esan, the practice is almost the same but for some little differences. During the seven days of mourning, the widow carries an Ikhmin, which is a many sided plant which is used to wade off evil spirit. She is also forbidden to sleep on the night preceding the seventh day because, it is believed that, the husband will visit and carry her away if she sleeps! A widow in Esan however, takes ", her bath in the night at a burial ground or at some obscure or isolated spot, " 14 and she shoots an arrow into the bush afterwards, to deter the late husband from coming near her again.

Throughout the three months mourning period, a pot containing some leaves believed to wade off evil, is left burning on the stove. The widow performs the purification rites after three months, which includes her hair, being shaved. On inheritance, a wife cannot inherit, rather; she is part of the "objects" to be inherited.

In Agenebode land, women here have different status/order of birth. A woman is either Amoya, a title that is highly respected and cherished because in marriage, she is given out totally or, she is Adegbe, a title that allows the woman to stay in her father's house even after marriage. Northing is done is her father's house without consulting her. As a result of these differences, varying degree of rights and privileges are given to them.

When an Amoya is widowed, one of her sister-in-law who is an Adebge will assist her to wear a white hand woven pant. This she wears for one whole year without washing or changing. She stays indoors and can't even go to the market or church. Her hair is scraped and, she is in total seclusion wearing only black. By virtue of her birth, she remains in her husband's house for life. If she accepts toe be inherited, she performs the purification right to legitimize the transfer. If she does not want to be inherited, she performs another rite to appease the family's ancestors. Her son inherits the property of the deceased if she happens to have the first son, this does not however transfer ownership of the property to her.

The situation is different, when an Adebge is widowed. She does not go through all the rites an Amoya goes through.

Her hair and that of her children is scraped on the fifth day after the death. Wearing of black is her choice and her movement is not restricted for one day, she goes about her normal business. The issue of inheritance does not arise for her because, she goes back to her father's house as soon as the man dies though, she is free to stay (if she so desires), without any obligation to the family of the late husband. If she is the mother of the first son, he inherits all his father's property.


start with the above

---------- Post added at 04:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 AM ----------


SOUTHEAST -ANAMBRA STATE

In Ogidi town, in Idemili L.G.A., the mourning period is one year during which time, the widow is restricted to the house where she sits on the bare floor for four weeks and her hair is scraped. She is not allowed to talk, laugh, shake hands or greet people, bake cook. Her attire is called "Ogodo upa, that is, "mud cloth" After seven weeks, she removes the "mud cloth" and wears "the ikpim, that is, a pitch black mourning dress" for the rest of the year. Peculiar to this people is the "etum afa, that is "praise naming" which the widow performs (mandatory) three times a day.

In Nanka town, Orumba L.G.A. the only peculiarity of this people is that the widow is forbidden to see the corpse of her husband. Christianity or not, ", any widow who contravenes this customs laterality ceases to exist, She neither buys from nor sell to any other member of the community. All men run away from her, She is avoided like death, , " . In Ogbunka town, still in Orumba South L.G.A., a widow is secluded behind the house immediately the husband dies. The Umuada force her to observe the routine wailing from morning till night for many days. This widow is in turn expected to provide the oku awa i.e. yam meal with a chicken, for the Umuada (on daily basis).

In Ezira and Nawfija, "the widow is put in a cage" She is allowed to sit on a mat or mattress inside her "cage" though she does not sleep there. According to these people, the widow is ", most vulnerable to physical pains inflicted on her by vicious mourners, who are in the habit of throwing their whole weight on the victim, in the guise of deep sympathy." The widow wears either black or white for seven months at the end of which, she wears another dress for the remaining five months that is neither black nor white.

In Akili-Ogidi town, in Ogbaru L.G.A., widowhood practice is the same as in Ogidi town except that, "the widow does here evening crying shift through the onu ntapa, that is, a chink in the wall. She must also be facing the west, throughout the first twenty eight days after the burial, " Because of civilization however, the working class widow is allowed to return to work after the short bereavement leave granted her. However, no widow is allowed to step out of her husbands compound on her own feet. She mut be", carried by a man out of the compound to, The road, to take transport to her destination."

chew on that one

---------- Post added at 04:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 AM ----------


SOUTHWEST -ONDO STATE
When a husband dies, the widow goes into confinement for seven days. During this period she is not allowed to go out, even to the toilet or, take her bath. On the seventh day, her head is shaved to sever the bond between her and the dead husband. She also keeps a vigil and appears very sorrowful by wailing and crying profusely. If she fails to mourn, it is believed that "she may become mentally deranged, or forfeit the right to any benefit." 5. After this, she goes into mourning proper, which is for a period of three months. During mourning, she is to be of impeccable behavior so that her late husband's spirit may gain quick entry into the community of his ancestral spirits. The widow is not expected to court, leave the family, go away with the children, or look in the mirror for fear of seeing the deceased. Until recently, she was not allowed to sit on the bed.

This period is also used to ascertain whether the widow is pregnant or not. At the end of three months, she performs the outing ceremony. She is then free to remarry into the family. A widow may however, refuse to be inherited even if her late husbands's family want it so likewise, a man may equally refuse to inherit his late brother's wife. In ondo, as in other Yoruba land, property belongs to the wife/wives and the children of the deceased. It is shared as Ori o ju ori i.e equally among the children (including girls), or as Idi'ig i.e equally among the wives (were the man has more than one wife), though, the eventual

beneficiaries are the children. Where the widow has no child, she may not get any thing from her husband's property. It reverts back to his family.





and that mr obugi

---------- Post added at 04:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 AM ----------


The plight of the widows in Edo State is very pathetic. A widow in Edo State
is condemned to a life of rejection, trauma, deprivation and poverty. The
practices vary from area to area, however, there are two broad patterns of
practice in Edo South and Edo North. Edo South is inhabited mainly by the
Binis and Ishans.
When a man dies in Edo South, the wife is usually suspected to have a hand in
his death, no matter how old he man may be.
The practice is usually for the women to be confined to her room and the man's
family will be invited and informed. Upon arrival of the family, there is
severe mourning and then accusations and counter accusations.
The interrogation and inquisition then begins. This generally has put the
women as an accused before her accusers.
In order to prove her innocence the woman is desperate to do any thing demanded
of her in the name of tradition.
Her husband's spirit is usually invoked and she is made to swear before him. In
the purely traditional families, the corpse is washed and she is made to drink
from it. When the burial proper begins she is made to sit on tree branches,
her hair is shaven and she does not bathe during the seven days of the burial
ceremonies. She is served food on a broken clay pot which remains unwashed
throughout the period, she is also made to eat with her left hand. The rites
are fraught with so much danger and hostility that the widow usually has her
family members guarding her throughout. On the last day of mourning, after
some rituals, she is made to bathe in the dead of night. This is usually the
most dangerous as there have been occasions when the widow has been physically
attacked by the husband's family members. She is usually protected by men from
her own family.
If the husband's family is Christian, the widow may be spared the ordeal but
usually there will be non-Christians among them who will insist that some
aspect of the tradition be carried out. By the end of the ordeal the widow is
so traumatised that the cordial relationship which previously existed between
families is terminated. After the rites, if the man was polygamous or if the
widow was the only wife, but did not bear him a son, she is asked to leave her
matrimonial home. There are known instances of women who have been driven out
of their matrimonial home after 45 years of marriage.
The widow has no right of inheritances. If the widow is lucky to have older
children, the children begin to look after their mother. Where the widow is
young she is pushed into penury, because the family begin to divest her of all
her husband'' property. If the widow was a full-time housewife, the sudden
loss of status and the traumatic experience has been known to drive some into
depression. The children are also not catered for and she is left to fend


In Edo North, the widowhood rites are similar but also the women become
inherited by the deceased's brother. It is very common in Edo North for a
woman to bear children for two brothers.


BENIN CHIEF CONDEMNS ASSEMBLY OVER WIDOWS' BILL

A Benin Chief, Obaloza of Benin Kingdom, Chief Jackson Amure, on Wednesday,
condemned the passage of the bill on maltreatment of widows by the State House
of Assembly, saying it will lead to crisis, if eventually signed into law by
the executive.

This condemnation was contained in a statement, made available to the Punch, in
Benin on Wednesday.
The bill sponsored by the House Committee Chairman on Women Affairs, Mrs. Eshoe
Jacobs seeks among other things to ban the age-long practice of making a widow
drink the water used in washing the corpse of her dead husband or eat a
particular soup from a special plate with the left hand.
Amure, a member of the Benin Traditional Council (BIC) while condemning the
passage of the bill affected the Benin cultural values, adding the practice had
been with people from ancient times.
He berated the legislators for not consulting the people, adding that making a
widow to swear at the forehead of her deceased husband is allowed in order to
prove the innocence of the widow as not being the cause of the death of the
deceased"
While advocating a strict adherence to African cultural values, Amure stated
that "we should remember that we can never be more white than the Englishman.
If you tell a whiteman that it is possible to programme death into somebody's
life by cutting his hair or taking sand from his footprint, the whiteman would
tell you that it is not possible.
But we black know that this is very possible.
But we black know that this very possible. The type of diabolical and
spiritual wickedness practiced here is quite different from what obtains in the
whiteman's world", he said.
He stated that the idea of a widow swearing at the forehead of her deceased
husband was evolved to serve as a check on the diabolical wickedness of some
women.He added that the practice guaranteed the protection of the man (the husband),
while alive "and it serves as a deterrent to the woman or any of the spouses
that is diabolically inclined. She knows what she will go through, should the
partner dies".
While urging the Governor of the State Chief Lucky Igbinedion to be circumspect
in signing the bill into law, the Benin Chief warned that "the bill, if signed
into law by the governor would cause more confusion than it is made to solve".
He said that any woman who hid under the new bill to defy the family of her
late husband would have herself and her children rejected and denied
recognition within the milieu of the Bini tradition.

http://lists.kabissa.org/lists/archives/public/womenseconomicrights-conference/msg00063.html


Use your google and read more stories on widowhood practices in Nigeria

---------- Post added at 04:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 AM ----------


In 2001, the Government of Enugu State passed The Prohibition of Infringement of a Widow's and Widower's Fundamental Rights Law, 2001-A Law to Make it Unlawful to Infringe the Fundamental Rights of Widows and Widows, and for Other Related Matters (WIN NEWS Spring 2002; Widows' Rights International n.d.). Subsection 1 f) of this law specifically forbids forcing a widow to drink the water used to wash her husband's corpse (WIN NEWS Spring 2002). To publicize the law, the Widows Development Organisation, assisted by the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives (CFLI), has published an explanatory guide (Widows' Rights International n.d.). According to a report by the project coordinator of Women's Rights Watch - Nigeria, "three states have passed laws against punitive widowhood rites, Enugu, Edo and Oyo state" (Rufarm 2003). However, the report states that despite these laws, the mourning rites continued to be practised in these states in 2003 (ibid
http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/research/rir/?action=record.viewrec&gotorec=433946

Mr Obugi you touched a topic dear to my heart of which I have ample documentation on
Next time you'll be cautious with accusations of falsehood.

---------- Post added at 04:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:36 AM ----------


And as though the woman hasn't suffered enough humiliating treatments,she's inherited by the late husband's brother or even son (not her child)


Levirate marriage, where a "family member inherits a married woman whose husband is dead" (Bamgbose July 2002, 13), continues to be practiced under various customary law systems in Nigeria (AI 31 May 2005, 8; Center for Reproductive Rights 2003, 84). A May 2005 Amnesty International (AI) report states that

[s]ome customary law systems , prescribe that a widow 'inherited' by a male relative of the former husband. The widow is seen as the property of the former husband's family. Families that migrate to Lagos continue to apply such customary rules to their relationships, even after they have moved away from their traditional areas of origin (31 May 2005, Cool.

Described as "degrading and harmful," (Bamgbose July 2002, 13), the practice of levirate marriage has been identified as one of the leading causes of the spread of HIV/AIDS in Nigeria (UN 2004, 13).

[B]Levirate marriage is considered a custom of the Yoruba, the Igbo, and the Hausa-Fulani and continues to be practiced in rural communities (Bamgbose July 2002, 13). However, increased education and urbanization are thought to have reduced this practice (ibid.). It is also thought that women in Nigeria who have greater economic independence are less likely to accept a levirate marriage (Ewelukwa May 2002, 438)

.http://www.cisr-irb.gc.ca/en/research/rir/?action=record.viewrec&gotorec=449978


Finally read the above

Obugi
Aug 24, 2010, 04:17 AM
Lateesha,

The study of widhowhood rites in Africa, especially in Igboland, has become agenda driven. That an allegation is published somewhere doesn't confirm its veracity. To put it simply, the most "prestigious" and profitable place to make a name or to be published is in the West and they are most likely to publish, sanctify and uphold a narrative that confirms the depravity of the African.

You should go and find out for yourself just how true these tales are. I have gone on my own journey of questioning and found most of it to be lies. You're an Igbo woman so it can't be that hard for you to find out.

The funny thing is that while you insist on the truth of these mostly made up tales, you've been on record here on NVS denying other things that are ACTUALLY TRUE about contemporary Igbo life. I've written a lot here about the common practice of Igbo Christians conducting pogroms in our towns and villages where the traditional worshippers are driven out and killed and their shrines and homes plundered. Your silence on that issue makes your mindset immediately clear.

You live an unexamined life. You are a perfect example of the kind of person who can be easily taken in by the propaganda you have cited. Your self image and self worth are so tied up in your attempts to assimilate into Western culture that you will accept any lie that justifies the contempt in which you hold your own culture and your own people. And I don't write that as any kind of criticism, it is fact and it's not your fault. Your kind of bias is the most profitable position to take in a world dominated by the White Man. If the Igbo man had conquered world, you wouldn't be so eager to cast such aspersions on him.

You need to ask yourself why these scholars and activists NEVER mention the equally difficult cultural requirements imposed on Igbo men who become widowers or who are bereaved of their mothers. WHY?

I know the kind of Christian you are. You don't need to stoop this low to justify your religiosity and its associated cultural choices.

The claims of female oppression in Igbo culture are simply part of a larger propaganda war and you are one of the victims. Your contempt for the African has always been evident.

Face it - you just hate anything that Oyibo says you should hate about Africa. The reason is that the Oyibo man is more powerful than the African man. Even if an African culture mandated that only women can be rulers, you would still denigrate it. After all, whhen a Yoruba clan followed their traditional rites and chose a teenage girl to be their regent, you also cried your Christian tears.

You and women like you will never be satisfied until all Black men (except your relatives, of course) are enslaved so that you can have exclusive access to Oyibo goodies.

Some of us want to be free, no matter the goodies offered. You can slander us, trample us, do whatever you like. If you "liberated women" are really serious about what you want, just pick up your guns and start shooting and stop hiding behind the White Man.

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

First-lady
Aug 24, 2010, 04:34 PM
Lateesha,

The study of widhowhood rites in Africa, especially in Igboland, has become agenda driven. That an allegation is published somewhere doesn't confirm its veracity. To put it simply, the most "prestigious" and profitable place to make a name or to be published is in the West and they are most likely to publish, sanctify and uphold a narrative that confirms the depravity of the African.

You should go and find out for yourself just how true these tales are. I have gone on my own journey of questioning and found most of it to be lies. You're an Igbo woman so it can't be that hard for you to find out.

The funny thing is that while you insist on the truth of these mostly made up tales, you've been on record here on NVS denying other things that are ACTUALLY TRUE about contemporary Igbo life. I've written a lot here about the common practice of Igbo Christians conducting pogroms in our towns and villages where the traditional worshippers are driven out and killed and their shrines and homes plundered. Your silence on that issue makes your mindset immediately clear.

You live an unexamined life. You are a perfect example of the kind of person who can be easily taken in by the propaganda you have cited. Your self image and self worth are so tied up in your attempts to assimilate into Western culture that you will accept any lie that justifies the contempt in which you hold your own culture and your own people. And I don't write that as any kind of criticism, it is fact and it's not your fault. Your kind of bias is the most profitable position to take in a world dominated by the White Man. If the Igbo man had conquered world, you wouldn't be so eager to cast such aspersions on him.

You need to ask yourself why these scholars and activists NEVER mention the equally difficult cultural requirements imposed on Igbo men who become widowers or who are bereaved of their mothers. WHY?

I know the kind of Christian you are. You don't need to stoop this low to justify your religiosity and its associated cultural choices.

The claims of female oppression in Igbo culture are simply part of a larger propaganda war and you are one of the victims. Your contempt for the African has always been evident.

Face it - you just hate anything that Oyibo says you should hate about Africa. The reason is that the Oyibo man is more powerful than the African man. Even if an African culture mandated that only women can be rulers, you would still denigrate it. After all, whhen a Yoruba clan followed their traditional rites and chose a teenage girl to be their regent, you also cried your Christian tears.

You and women like you will never be satisfied until all Black men (except your relatives, of course) are enslaved so that you can have exclusive access to Oyibo goodies.

Some of us want to be free, no matter the goodies offered. You can slander us, trample us, do whatever you like. If you "liberated women" are really serious about what you want, just pick up your guns and start shooting and stop hiding behind the White Man.

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

You are a sorry excuse for a man and I don't say that often.
On this thread, you alleged that the widowhood practices I listed do not exist, I overlooked your childish rants and produced ample documentation to support my claim and what you want now is proof outside the documentation.:eek:

Do you want me to show a picture of a widow drinking bath water or forced to cry at intervals?

And what exactly is that injustice imposed on men whose mothers are bereaved?
Walking to her hometown to announce her death as stipulated by whatever hamlet you come from in Mbaitoli
Who do you expect to do the walking?
Her daughters?:rolleyes:
If your father walked to his maternal hometown to announce the passing of your grandmother, and so what?:icon_ques
Do you have documentation that he actually walked 20 miles or you expect me to take your word for it?

On about 3 or more ocassions in this square I have demanded that you provide even one documentation of the various claims you made and on three ocassions or more,you ran.
I have consistently asked you for a year now to show us proof of those various pogroms carried out on osus and traditional worshippers by Igbo Christians and you failed woefully.
It's not enough to bleat like aturu aka aguntan all over the village,back up your claims with valid documentations.
I have done that to my own claims.
You remain a liar until you produce proof of what you say,
A naghi m eti mmonwu a na akwa aka.

You have described me in your own way but it means absolutely nothing, I know who I am and my stand on any issue is as clear as night and day.
You on the other hand are a very angry, unbalanced, and bitter sociopath and misogynist who is most likely to die a lonely and very unhappy man.

And I'm hardly wrong in my descriptions of people, this is not to boast.
I have read your writings enough to describe you well.
You fit the profile of a man that could kill , hide the body in your basement and drink gari daily in that basement with all that stench.
Pele.
Only God can help you sir.:pray:

Ajibs
Aug 24, 2010, 05:37 PM
Frist Lady and Obugi,
I would say you both have added to the discussion but also might derail the discussion. Coming back to the topic, both your responses highlight IMHO that the problem with Gender equality in Nigeria is mainly the adherence to traditional beliefs and the governemt is trying to deal with the issue. For example citing from what First Lady posted we read:


In 2001, the Government of Enugu State passed The Prohibition of Infringement of a Widow's and Widower's Fundamental Rights Law, 2001-A Law to Make it Unlawful to Infringe the Fundamental Rights of Widows and Widows, and for Other Related Matters (WIN NEWS Spring 2002; Widows' Rights International n.d.). Subsection 1 f) of this law specifically forbids forcing a widow to drink the water used to wash her husband's corpse (WIN NEWS Spring 2002). To publicize the law, the Widows Development Organisation, assisted by the Canada Fund for Local Initiatives (CFLI), has published an explanatory guide (Widows' Rights International n.d.). According to a report by the project coordinator of Women's Rights Watch - Nigeria, "three states have passed laws against punitive widowhood rites, Enugu, Edo and Oyo state" (Rufarm 2003). However, the report states that despite these laws, the mourning rites continued to be practised in these states in 2003 (ibid
http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/researc...gotorec=433946

So the government is doing something about it, but no nearly enough I would assume.

Coming back to your deep discussion as regards the Igbo traditions, I think most of us in the village are very much aware of Obugi's disdain for the manner in which his people as I believe he is also Igbo have taken to Christianity and snuffed out traditional religions, just like most other ethnic groups have done all over Nigeria and indeed Africa. He has similar disdain for the Muslim take over in the North, so I dare say that while he as usual hits hard. He believes what he is saying.

Obugi,
On the other hand, First Lady has given some examples to showcase the practices still take place. Going through what I have read, I am really at a loss if this is STILL currently taking place in Nigeria today. Would an educated Edo woman allow herself to be subjected to such madness? Secondly, I do wonder if these practices apply to those who got married in church or via Islam, not traditionally.

Now a valid question Mr. Obugi sir as asked by First Lady is are the men subject to similar traditional practices? I did read your initial post, Sitting under the sun all day with no food and water is very tough, but to go and bathe at a deserted junction at 4am in the morning in the bush??? WTF!!! And that is not even the worst thing!

Finally when you said the following:

You need to ask yourself why these scholars and activists NEVER mention the equally difficult cultural requirements imposed on Igbo men who become widowers or who are bereaved of their mothers. WHY?

Of course we can see you mean that by calculated design, the Igbo men and being discredited by the western world. Can you further enlighten us on what the men also face.

I have heard for example the very tough requirements given to men when they want to get married in Igbo land, like for example the dowry is set in accordance to the educational level of the woman and sometimes the dowry can be something outrageous like to compete / build the home of the father in law, but truth be told, I have not idea if these stories are true or just exaggerations. I would appreciate some factual insight on this.

Obugi
Aug 24, 2010, 06:35 PM
Lateesha,


You are a sorry excuse for a man and I don't say that often.

You've said it plenty of times about your husband. The one you say you only "manage" because you have no choice.

We know you well, Lateesha.

Most of what you cited as evidence is merely the biased slander of so called academic activists hoping to win Western prizes.

When you show as much concern for the customary practices that men are burdened with we may listen to you.

You're a liar......and I expect nothing better from a Christian.

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

First-lady
Aug 24, 2010, 08:10 PM
Lateesha,



You've said it plenty of times about your husband. The one you say you only "manage" because you have no choice.

We know you well, Lateesha.

Most of what you cited as evidence is merely the biased slander of so called academic activists hoping to win Western prizes.

When you show as much concern for the customary practices that men are burdened with we may listen to you.

You're a liar......and I expect nothing better from a Christian.

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

hahahahaha!!
I laff in Mbaitoli Ikeduru :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
e be like say dat wan pain you well well:pray:

---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------


Frist Lady and Obugi,
I would say you both have added to the discussion but also might derail the discussion. Coming back to the topic, both your responses highlight IMHO that the problem with Gender equality in Nigeria is mainly the adherence to traditional beliefs and the governemt is trying to deal with the issue. For example citing from what First Lady posted we read:



So the government is doing something about it, but no nearly enough I would assume.

Coming back to your deep discussion as regards the Igbo traditions, I think most of us in the village are very much aware of Obugi's disdain for the manner in which his people as I believe he is also Igbo have taken to Christianity and snuffed out traditional religions, just like most other ethnic groups have done all over Nigeria and indeed Africa. He has similar disdain for the Muslim take over in the North, so I dare say that while he as usual hits hard. He believes what he is saying.

Obugi,
On the other hand, First Lady has given some examples to showcase the practices still take place. Going through what I have read, I am really at a loss if this is STILL currently taking place in Nigeria today. Would an educated Edo woman allow herself to be subjected to such madness? Secondly, I do wonder if these practices apply to those who got married in church or via Islam, not traditionally.

Now a valid question Mr. Obugi sir as asked by First Lady is are the men subject to similar traditional practices? I did read your initial post, Sitting under the sun all day with no food and water is very tough, but to go and bathe at a deserted junction at 4am in the morning in the bush??? WTF!!! And that is not even the worst thing!

Finally when you said the following:


Of course we can see you mean that by calculated design, the Igbo men and being discredited by the western world. Can you further enlighten us on what the men also face.

I have heard for example the very tough requirements given to men when they want to get married in Igbo land, like for example the dowry is set in accordance to the educational level of the woman and sometimes the dowry can be something outrageous like to compete / build the home of the father in law, but truth be told, I have not idea if these stories are true or just exaggerations. I would appreciate some factual insight on this.

Our society is a male dominated one largely.
Up until a couple of years ago,a woman needed her husband's signatory and permission on paper to obtain a Nigerian passport.
A female Judge from Rivers State (I believe) championed the course to get that removed .

Most known aspect of cultural practice relegates women to the background.
The documented and well researched examples I cited may not be as commonly practiced as it were decades ago but it is still alive and well in many quarters and one woman being subjected to those ill practices is one too many.
There's hardly any culture in Nigeria where a woman is not suspected at various instances of having a hand in the husband's death but the reverse is hardly the case.

The "sitting under the sun all day with no food" is laughable even if true
Try comparing that to not bathing for 7 days,wearing rags or being put in a cage and tell me how that compares.
Let's not mention sitting with a corpse overnight to prove you had no hand in the death or drinking water that was used to bathe a dead person.
Our culture for the most part is wicked to women.
Thank God laws are being passed (and hopefully enforced) to end these evil practices but as you can see from one of my posts,a Bini Chief is on record some years ago protesting the abolition of those practices.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------


I have heard for example the very tough requirements given to men when they want to get married in Igbo land, like for example the dowry is set in accordance to the educational level of the woman and sometimes the dowry can be something outrageous like to compete / build the home of the father in law, but truth be told, I have not idea if these stories are true or just exaggerations. I would appreciate some factual insight on this.

I believe all this talk about the dowry and stringent marriage requirements in Igboland is over rated.
Most Nigerians are very poor or struggling to make ends meet.
Do you really think any town or village that insists on that wouldn't have unmarried girls littered everywhere?
How many Nigerian men compared to the population can build a house for themselves talk less of having enough means to build one in order to marry a wife?
Is the average Igbo man overflowing with money such that he can afford all these things?

Marriage is costly in every culture
there are a lot of guests to feed and merriment to be made and it all costs money
Almost everything on the list of "things to buy" is negotiable
Most families can tweak the list to suit their son in law and some of those requirements can be done after the marriage.
Using myself as an example,my husband was supposed to buy some cartons of maltina and other stuff for my maternal uncles and great uncles even in my mother's maternal home and he didn't get to doing that.
We made money available and my mom later on provided those things for her brothers and uncles about 2 years after we were married.I saw it as giving something to my uncles and great uncles.

My own dowry was one naira
My dad collected that just for the symbolism of it.
And most educated men or those who are not neck deep into silly traditions in Igboland can pretty much decide what exchanges hands at their daughter's traditional marriage.
My husband was not fleeced
neither did my dad fleece any of my brothers in law
and thankfully my brothers all married women from families that didn't have their daughters for sale.

Ajibs
Aug 24, 2010, 10:24 PM
I will comment on the rest of your post later, but dis one I no fit allow to go....:D


My own dowry was one naira
My dad collected that just for the symbolism of it.


ONE NAIRA for a whole fantastic, intelligent, sharp, wonderfulous and ultra sexy you???? HABA!!! Yeeeeeeee.....AH!! You hubby nah lucky guy!!!! Wey my madam, come hia O!!!! Oya give me back all my new roller suitcase, shoe, high heel, low heel and medium heel, cloth, dress, lace, handbag, fruit basket, Pineapple, banana, tangelo, potato, irish, african and sweet, plantain, Ishu (yam) Gold chain, necklace, earrings, Napoleon brandy, Irish Cream, Johnny Walker, Hennessey, Palm Wine, oda shakis shocolate, asho ebi, and all dat oda mede mede wey I buy for you!!!!! And take dis ONE NAIRA!!!!! :D :D :D Okay one dollar...:D

Unregistre
Aug 25, 2010, 03:54 AM
African culture as applied to widowhood evolved as an antidot to situations as listed by the Bini traditional chief. Passing laws will not change any culture, rather culture not been static will continue to change or react to existing circumstance. Instead of some stupid legislation that has no meaning to the African man why don't we encourage the sister's to hide pistles in their handbag and blow off any man that would subject them to any cultural nonsense and see how the culture will change overnight in reaction to this.

Ajibs
Aug 25, 2010, 08:07 AM
While advocating a strict adherence to African cultural values, Amure stated
that "we should remember that we can never be more white than the Englishman. (NAR: Yes sar!!! You are de true son of ya Papa and Mama sar!!! If not, why not you are very korrect!! )
If you tell a whiteman that it is possible to programme death into somebody's
life by cutting his hair or taking sand from his footprint, the whiteman would
tell you that it is not possible.
But we black know that this is very possible.
But we black know that this very possible. The type of diabolical and
spiritual wickedness practiced here is quite different from what obtains in the
whiteman's world", he said.

Very correct SAR!!!! But you see why I dey fear bini people??? I bin get one FINEEEEE Bini babe laik dat, but small time after we don dey enjoy, nah him my friend come knack me some one kin 'tory, ewo chineke!!! I come run. Make I tell una a story...

Once upon a time...time, time, there as a boy...boy, boy...:D lol Anyhow while doing my "A" levels in Naija, up north, I had a very very good bini boy as a best friend. Strong muscular dude no dey fear anybody, and he was the first born in the family, Onome. Now he very very rarely gets sick, hardly even sneezes talk less of sick. One day he did get sick, coughing, small time fever, small time stomach ache. Small time he was too weak to walk. So I rushed him to he sick bay, he was there for two days and just got worse, so he said he had a clinic in town where his folks knew some docs there so we transfered him to that hospital, another 4-5 days, he was treated for malaria, acute malaria, and I am not sure about typhoid. My super strong dude was so weak I literary had to spoon feed him and carry him to the bathroom. Finally one morning the docs told me they did not understand why he was not responding to treatment and I should contact his folks...

So I told, him and he looked at me in a strange way and said he knew what was wrong. I remember so clearly and he gave me the address of an Uncle to go call to come and see him. Cut a long story short, the Uncle came, looked at him, told us to excuse him for a while, he spent about an hour with him, went back home, came back that evening, spent another about 2 hours I think with him, guess what, Onome walked out of that hospital with his two feet in less than 24 hours!!!! My people, I was stunned beyond belief!!! Weeks later I sat him down and asked, dude, hello, what happened that time... wich kin wayo be dat one...then he told me some stories...!!! Ah, I no dey fear too many things, but Bini people???? You should certainly fear dem eyo!!!

Now back to owa discussion hia...:D

Dewdrops
Sep 2, 2010, 08:08 PM
3. If you look around in Nigeria, women are very prominent in ALL positions, not just positions assumed where women can play a role like say child care, women affairs et al. Consider the following powerful women: Ngozi Iweala, Ex Minister of Finaince, Cecilia Ibru Ex Ocieanic Bank Chairwoman, Otunba Bola Kuforiji Olubi: Ex UBA CEO and Minister. Of course Madam Funmilayo Ransome-Kuti civil rights activist and of course the mother to 3 notable Nigerians, Professor Olikoye Ransome-Kuti, Dr. Beko Ransome-Kuti, and of course Fela Kuti! and grandmother to Femi Kuti!! Prof. Grace Alele-Williams, Ex VC University of Benin and Hon. Justice Aloma Mariam Mukhtar, Supreme court Justice and many many more. See the link below for a few more notable Nigerian women:

All these ancient names.
Any modern independent Nigerian woman IN NIGERIA making it on her own?
Whosssssssssssai!!!!!!
Naija men will kill you or simply maim you than occupy a space of relevance other than the kitchen or the bedroom.....
Best case scenario.......you become one 'Judith of Ekpoma" sleeping around the "Engineering" department of "Otubu"-infested pot-bellied lecturers. :lol:
Shiooooooooooooor!!!!

See what happened to Okonjo-Iweala, Okereke-Onyuike, Patricia Etteh, Mercy Almnona-Isei, Adenike Grange and so on and so forth.

Please, gender inequality is the tradition for life in Nigeria. Women who wish to succeed on their own like me of course have to leave that environment of social oppression in the Nigerian men.

A Nigerian man can never truly be happy to see a Nigerian woman succeed over him. Not in this lifetime.

City Girl
Sep 3, 2010, 08:49 AM
All these ancient names.
Any modern independent Nigerian woman IN NIGERIA making it on her own?
Whosssssssssssai!!!!!!
Naija men will kill you or simply maim you than occupy a space of relevance other than the kitchen or the bedroom.....Best case scenario.......you become one 'Judith of Ekpoma" sleeping around the "Engineering" department of "Otubu"-infested pot-bellied lecturers. :lol:
Shiooooooooooooor!!!!

See what happened to Okonjo-Iweala, Okereke-Onyuike, Patricia Etteh, Mercy Almnona-Isei, Adenike Grange and so on and so forth.

Please, gender inequality is the tradition for life in Nigeria. Women who wish to succeed on their own like me of course have to leave that environment of social oppression in the Nigerian men.

A Nigerian man can never truly be happy to see a Nigerian woman succeed over him. Not in this lifetime.

I think the emboldened part of your post would only refer to women in government. There are a number of women in the private sector, who occupy positions of power and authority through sheer hardwork without hanging to the coat tails of a man (or men).

Dewdrops
Sep 3, 2010, 07:16 PM
I think the emboldened part of your post would only refer to women in government. There are a number of women in the private sector, who occupy positions of power and authority through sheer hardwork without hanging to the coat tails of a man (or men).

Can you please name them?

Private sector huh?:lol:
What kind of 'goods and services' are sold in this 'private' sectors huh?
Are the payments in 'cash' or in 'kind' or both....:wink:


Private....
Private....
Private....

City Girl
Sep 4, 2010, 02:08 PM
Can you please name them?

Private sector huh?:lol:
What kind of 'goods and services' are sold in this 'private' sectors huh?
Are the payments in 'cash' or in 'kind' or both....:wink:


Private....
Private....
Private....

To name a few:

1. Florence Seriki
2. Funmi Iyanda
3. Hilary Izundu Unachukwu
4. Dr. Denloye
5. Aisha Tje-Imam
6. Dr. Akindayomi
7. Nike Ogunlesi
8. Ayo Obe
9. Dr. Franca Ovadje
10. Benedikter Molokwu
11. Ndidi Nwuneli
12. Cynthia Mosunmola Umoru
13. Patricia Ojora
14. Temitope Esisi
15. Azukaego Freda Chukwuma
16. Florence Kemisola Shekoni
17. Domingo Ibironke
18. Adebiyi Olubukola
19. Ayodeji Megbope
20. Fayo Williams
21. SISI EKO :razz:

Dewdrops
Sep 4, 2010, 06:54 PM
To name a few:

1. Florence Seriki
2. Funmi Iyanda
3. Hilary Izundu Unachukwu
4. Dr. Denloye
5. Aisha Tje-Imam
6. Dr. Akindayomi
7. Nike Ogunlesi
8. Ayo Obe
9. Dr. Franca Ovadje
10. Benedikter Molokwu
11. Ndidi Nwuneli
12. Cynthia Mosunmola Umoru
13. Patricia Ojora
14. Temitope Esisi
15. Azukaego Freda Chukwuma
16. Florence Kemisola Shekoni
17. Domingo Ibironke
18. Adebiyi Olubukola
19. Ayodeji Megbope
20. Fayo Williams
21. SISI EKO :razz:

:clap::clap::clap:

If you say so.
Me nor recognize any name for this list o.
I guess just surviving from day to day neans making it.
If that is all it takes......then I agree with you.:shake:

City Girl
Sep 5, 2010, 08:32 AM
:clap::clap::clap:

If you say so.
Me nor recognize any name for this list o.
I guess just surviving from day to day neans making it.
If that is all it takes......then I agree with you.:shake:

Dewdrops

Take time to google out any of those names, except ofcourse Sisi Eko :p, you will find out that they have made note-worthy contributions to the society and some of them are running successful businesses, that is just the point I am trying to make.

agensheku
Sep 5, 2010, 09:03 AM
NAR,i join you fear Bini fiful o!i hear say for that place,na so so landladies dey.that if you go to ten houses,eight will have landladies.na im i ask why.den come tell me say na love the women dey take yamutu dem husbands.dem go cook flenty better food,giam fleny yam to chop until dat one drops dead.the ones wey better chop no kill,na hairfuss go winch dem go!na wah o,i ask so tay i no see pesin tell me whether na true or false.

Dewdrops
Sep 7, 2010, 11:46 AM
Lone*Star

Take time to google out any of those names, except ofcourse Sisi Eko :p, you will find out that they have made note-worthy contributions to the society and some of them are running successful businesses, that is just the point I am trying to make.

Not impresssed by any given standards by those names.
The private sector does not matter as much to me since it cannot effectively make the necessary impact in the lives of Nigerians as the dismal state of affairs show in Nigeria on ALL sectors of the society. Only a true committment to 'public' service can salvage the state of women as second-class citizens in Nigeria and Africa as a whole...not the private sector.

Please, let us set some form of higher standards for Nigerian ladies.....not 'portmanteau"/ "boot-cosmetics" home business runners....huh?

Something like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsXxMbFbZWQ

:hail:

Now, this is what I am talking about.
Women with voices.
Sorry, I do not aim 'low'.....:1love:

---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

http://www.enotes.com/second-class-citizen/


Second-Class Citizen

The title of Buchi Emecheta's second novel, Second-Class Citizen, published in 1974, refers to the condition of the protagonist Adah in both her native Nigerian society and in the African immigrant community in Britain. The character is clearly autobiographical, and her journey from Nigeria to London to follow Francis, her student husband, closely resembles Emecheta's own trajectory as an author.

Adah is a second-class citizen in Nigeria where her parents initially refuse her a suitable education and arrange her marriage. She is equally second-class in England both because she is a black African woman and because the Nigerian immigrant community reproduces the patriarchal values of the mother country. Yet, in spite of her second-class status, Adah does not give up her ambition to pursue an education in England. Her quest for knowledge is part of the struggle for self-achievement and freedom from social constraints. Ultimately, it is precisely education that allows Adah to improve her condition.

The central character of Second-Class Citizen is representative of many women created by Emecheta. Through education, they are able to challenge the masculinist assumption that they should be defined as mere domestic properties whose value resides in their ability to bear children and in their willingness to remain confined at home.

Like other characters in Ememcheta's fiction, Adah is also torn between two places, suffering from a sense of displacement because she belongs in neither.

In spite of her "second-class" condition, Adah is characterized throughout the novel by her sense of initiative and determination. The first part of the novel, set in Nigeria in the 1940s and 1950s, recounts Adah's childhood marked by the death of her father and her frustrated aspirations for an independent existence. Contrary to her hopes, her family devote all the money that they have for her brother's education and, when Adah is finally allowed to study, this is only to make her a better marriageable commodity. To Adah, marriage means the fulfillment of her childhood dream to emigrate to England where her husband is going to complete his studies. Initially left behind, Adah finally joins Francis in England with the couple's two children. She soon discovers that her childhood vision of England as the land of opportunity was clearly the result of the cultural domination of the colonizers. The new country reserves a cold welcome to Adah who is discriminated against by whites because she is black and by her own community because she refuses to comply with prescribed gender roles. Emecheta effectively draws the reader's attention to the paradoxical nature of traditional gender beliefs within the Nigerian immigrant community. On one hand, Francis firmly believes that a woman's place is in the home. On the other hand, he is fully dependent on Adah, who supports the whole family with her salary as librarian. By the end of the novel, Adah refuses to be further harassed by her husband and becomes aware of her potential to sustain her children alone.

Adah's ability to rise above her unhappy marriage is paralleled by Emecheta's own progress as a writer, which she details in her autobiography, Head Above Water (1986). Yet her portrayal of female characters has also sparked some controversy. Although Emecheta celebrates women's resourcefulness, fellow black women writers such as Flora Nwapa have taken issue with her definition of women as "second-class citizens" because it implies potential passivity and underscores the gender divide as one of the major elements in Nigerian society.

We have not come too far away from the 40s have we???
Still a primitive soceity.....for women and children especially.

City Girl
Sep 7, 2010, 02:37 PM
No Dewdrops

The above was not the point of your original discourse, in your earlier post, you claimed that there were no Nigerian women, making it in their own rights. I would not have responded with those names if you did not make that statement. There you have it in that list I provided for you. It is not everybody that has an opportunity to make far reaching changes in the society, but by tidying up one's corner, one is certainly making a difference. Even if they are engaged in Fufu business, they are obviously self-employed, some of them have charted new courses and they are certainly a beacon of hope for young women.

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------


Not impresssed by any given standards by those names.
The private sector does not matter as much to me since it cannot effectively make the necessary impact in the lives of Nigerians as the dismal state of affairs show in Nigeria on ALL sectors of the society. Only a true committment to 'public' service can salvage the state of women as second-class citizens in Nigeria and Africa as a whole...not the private sector.

Please, let us set some form of higher standards for Nigerian ladies.....not 'portmanteau"/ "boot-cosmetics" home business runners....huh?

Something like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsXxMbFbZWQ

:hail:

Now, this is what I am talking about.
Women with voices.
Sorry, I do not aim 'low'.....:1love:

---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

http://www.enotes.com/second-class-citizen/



We have not come too far away from the 40s have we???
Still a primitive soceity.....for women and children especially.

And in the situation where there are few women worth their salt in public service, what should those who make a difference in the private sector do ? Abandon their jobs, because they are not in full glare of the public?

Ajibs
Sep 7, 2010, 05:43 PM
I am catching up with the discussion eyo! Madam Dewdrops, glad to chee you back, dem don already knack you red card again??? Nah wire eyo...Anyhow, seeing that Sis Eko did dish out some names, I am selecting randomly...

Funmi Iyanda...

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Funmi Iyanda
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
This biography of a living person needs additional references or sources for verification. Tagged since April 2008.
Its tone or style may not be appropriate for Wikipedia. Tagged since April 2008.
Olufunmilola Aduke Iyanda (born July 27, 1971), better known as Fumni Iyanda is a Nigerian talk show host.[1][2]
Contents [hide]
1 Early life
2 Good morning Nigeria
3 New Dawn and other work
4 Talk With Funmi
5 Personal life
6 References
7 External links
[edit]Early life

She attended Herbert Macaulay School in Lagos, Nigeria, and then went to the University of Ibadan where she graduated with a degree in Geography.
Fresh out of university Funmi explored her deep passion of sports and for people when, between 1995 and 2003, she became an active member of the NFA. It was during this time that Funmi was consulted to act as chairperson to Nigerian sports legend Charity Okpara as well as Chioma Ajunwa, who two years later went on to win an Olympic Gold Medal.
She reported on the 1999 female World Cup, the All Africa Games in Zimbabwe, as well as the Sydney Olympics in Australia. She also worked on a documentary on the team that participated in the African Cup of Nations in South Africa in 1996.
[edit]Good morning Nigeria

She produced and presented "Good morning Nigeria" a magazine show. The show became a hit, with its "Heroes" segment which exalted the achievement of deserving members of the society and "Street Life", which unlike many shows at the time went out to the streets in search of compelling stories of the challenges Nigerians face.
The show beamed its searchlight on injustices to Nigerians, especially vulnerable members such as women and children. The show was syndicated on national television and in other states like Jos & Benin. In addition, her broadcast credits include Milo World Of sports (Presenters).
[edit]New Dawn and other work

Armed with the experience gained during the era of "Good morning Nigeria" Funmi sought a bigger platform to reach people and in 2000 she began presenting the programme "New Dawn".
"New Dawn with Funmi" started in 2000 and ran daily on NTA 10 Lagos. The success of the show made it the longest running independently produced programme on NTA. The programme has used its influence as a vehicle for social change and transformation by advocating the cause of the vulnerable members of the society with a bias for women, youth and children. Some of the shows initiatives include the "Change-A-Life" programme and foundation that has provided educational scholarships to over 50 young children, interventions in healthcare to needy members of society at no cost to beneficiaries, youth mentoring programmes as well as documentaries.[citation needed]
Funmi has also written regular columns in Tempo Magazine. On occasion she still serves as guest columnist for Farafina Magazine. She has also written for PM NEWS, Punch, Daily Trust & Vanguard Newspapers.[citation needed]
[edit]Talk With Funmi

In 2010, Iyanda began producing and hosting "Talk with Funmi" on DSTV's Africa Magic channel.[3]
[edit]Personal life

Her efforts have been recognized with over 10 awards since 1999.[citation needed]
Funmi serves on the Board of Action Aid International Nigeria, Positive Impact Youth Network amongst others and is an ALI fellow.[citation needed]
In her spare time Funmi reads, watching movies and supports her favourite football team, Chelsea FC.[citation needed]
[edit]References

---------- Post added at 01:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

Are you sure this lady is a Nigerian, I cannot place the name and face! But it appears she might be from the North East and not core north. Like old Gongola State.

Ayesha Mei-Tje Imam

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/international/planet-2/graphics/2008/8/ayesha-imam-march-2008.jpg

AYESHA IMAM
Ayesha Mei-Tje Imam has worked extensively on research, advocacy and education to protect and extend women's human rights under customary, secular and religious laws, on human rights generally and on democracy and sustainable development.

She is a board member of the international solidarity network Women Living Under Muslim Laws (WLUML) and a founding director of BAOBAB for Women's Human Rights in Nigeria, with which she received the John Humphrey Freedom Award in 2002. Currently she is also on the Board of WEDO (Woman's Environment and Development Organisation). The co-initiator and director of the first Gender Institute in Africa, Dr. Imam has also served as the Gender Policy Advisor for the United Nations Institute for Economic Development and Planning in Senegal and the Head of the Department of Culture, Gender and Human Rights at the United Nations Fund for Development (UNFPA) in New York. She was also the first Chair of the African Democracy Forum, a network of African democracy activists.

Ayesha has lectured and carried out research at universities and research institutes in Nigeria, the U.K., Canada and Senegal. She has published widely for both academic and activist uses. She has written and/or edited numerous journal articles, books and program reviews, including 'Engendering African Social Sciences' and two special issues of 'Africa Development': Re-Visiting Gender I and II.

Ayesha has a long-standing commitment to social and economic justice and environmentally sustainable development, which she sees as intrinsically linked to each other. In 1982 she co-edited 'Green Revolution in Nigeria?' a critical review of the package of industrial technology and modified seed agriculture then being advocated by the Nigerian Government and the World Bank. In her work and activism she focuses on the intersectionality of gender, environment, class (and others) to achieve holistic, sustainable, and equitable solutions.

She continues to advocate for, research and write on, and to train in human rights - including women's human rights, gender awareness and mainstreaming, gender and development, evaluation and research for activists in NGOs, planners and functionaries in government, and for researchers.

Ayesha currently lives in Dakar, Senegal

---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ----------

Okay,
I just watched her promo clip for a few minutes and walahi, you must BOW for this string woman eyo!!!!

Check out her promo at her company website. (http://www.omatekcomputers.com/company_profile.html)

Mrs Florence Seriki

http://www.w-teconline.org/images/board/florence_seriki.png


Florence Seriki: The IT icon
By Vivian Onyebukwa
Saturday, June 06, 2009



•Florence Seriki
Photo:Sun News Publishing
Sun Style Index
In the past women's place were said to be in the kitchen. But things are gradually changing as women world over including Nigeria have continued to move with the trend of development especially since after Beinjing conference in China. Now, a lot of Nigerian women can be found in different spheres of life.

They are not there just as observers but as major players in their different fields of specialization. Engr. (Mrs.) Florence Seriki is one of such amazons in Nigeria. Hers' is in the area of Information technology. Mrs. Seriki is the Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer of Omatek Ventures Plc., a household name in computer manufacturing in Nigeria, Ghana and other major cities of Africa.

Her road to success started during her Youth Service days when she commenced training Chief Executives on the use of personal computers and software applications on a short course basis. This humble beginning in 1986 is what has given birth to Omatek Ventures Plc. as we have it today.

The company came into existence in 1988 as major seller for Compaq, IBM, ACER and Apple among other computer brands. As a result of high volume system achieved, the company has been appointed a premium partner for Compaq, Senior Partner for IBM, Apple, Microsoft etc. In 2000, Omatek Ventures took advantage of the SME funding available in Zenith Bank and GTB and this led to the establishment of Omatek Computers, with Omatek Ventures becoming the major distributor of Omatek Computers.

Omatek Computers Limited is the first factory to locally assemble Computer cases, Speakers, Keyboards and Mouse, other than Computer systems and Notebooks in the whole of Africa. The birth of this factory came as a result of the strength of the vision of Mrs. Seriki as well as the successes recorded after the initial launch of the locally assembled Omatek Computers at the CTO of 1993 in Lagos by its mother company Omatek Ventures Limited.

Early in 2003, she took another giant stride by opening a factory in Lagos. This factory has turned out to be the very first in Africa. Omatek is recognised by the Nigerian ICT industry for quality and this has attracted several awards to the company. One of the biggest recognitions is when the company beat 42 other countries in November 2005 to win the coveted "Microsoft Best System Builder Award for West, East and Central Africa. According to Mrs. Seriki, this attests to the quality, consistency and volume of the Omatek brand of computers compared to the foreign brands. "This award recognises Omatek as a global player in the likes of other global giants. It establishes the company as a major partner in recognition of her strength and the quality of her products".

Since then, Mrs. Seriki has continued to be recognized for her leadership and entrepreneurial drive in the country. In 2007, she won the Most Outstanding Woman Award in Africa in Information Technology category, which was organized by WEAN, in Lagos. That is not all. The Federal Government of Nigeria recently awarded a national honour of the Member of the Order of Federal Republic (MFR) to her for her contribution in the Information technology and employment opportunities to the teeming jobless youths in the country. It was in this regard that OAU TechExel Foundation, an initiative of Obafemi Awolowo University (OAU), which is also her Alumni, decided to honour her at a cocktail party. The party took place at the premises of CMC Connect Ltd, Ikeja and Mrs, Seriki was honoured alongside Engr. Domola Aladekomo, the Managing Director of Chams Nigeria Plc, which is also a leading IT company but with special focus on card technologies.

The event brought together her friends, relations, business associates and several OAU Alumni including the Vice Chancellor of Obafemi Awolowo University (OAU), Ife, Prof Mike Fadorode. While speaking, Prof. Fadorode extolled the virtues of this great enterprising woman.

Also as a way of honouring Nigerian companies whose operations have transcended the Nigerian borders, THISDAY Board of Editors rewarded five firms based on their track record, innovative ideas and business edge in flying the Nigerian flag on the international level. It is not surprising that Omatek is among these leading companies. Mrs Seriki is indeed moving on the fast lane.
As a result of the strength of the company, Omatek became the first ICT company to be listed on the stock market anywhere in Africa.

As a company looking ahead into the future, Omatek Ventures Plc, has also diversified into other business areas outside computer manufacturing, with subsidiaries like Omatek Engineering Services Limited (OESL), Omatek Ventures Limited (OVL) and Omatek Computers Limited (OCL). Each of these companies is equipped with its own distinguished board and crop of new professional management staff. Omatek Ventures Plc. now serves as the parent company to the other subsidiaries in the group.
In her bid to drive technology across the frontiers, she is making so much effort to change the technology landscape of the country.

As a result, part of her company's focus is to equip the younger generation from primary to tertiary institutions with IT skills in order to establish an IT-driven population that would create a knowledge-based economy. She has often used her versed traveled wealth of ideas to tell Nigerians that all hope is not lost about our country becoming a great nation in technology if we can put our acts together. Mrs. Seriki is a public speaker of note such that there is hardly any ICT event in Nigeria that Mrs. Seriki will not be asked to deliver a paper.

To further sustain the quality of its products, Omatek has partnered the academic community into joint ventures for the establishment of research and development in their institutions. The University of Ibadan at present has an Omatek centre of excellence where research and development is specially carried out for Omatek Computers. This shows a vision for sustainability.

Mrs. Seriki has also been an apostle of local content that there is no event she attends without making a case for local content creation. She is so passionate about it that other ICT stakeholders are also singing the same song everywhere.

Asked how she has been able to achieve all these, she simply said, "It is by the grace of God, determination and hard work". It has been a great challenge on her part, but she has been able to surmount those challenges by the grace of God.

Mrs. Florence Seriki had her secondary education at Reagan Memorial Baptist Secondary School, Sabo Yaba. She then proceeded to the Federal School of Science, Lagos for her A' Levels and later, proceeded to the then University of Ife, (now Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile Ife).
She is a woman of vision, intergrity, hardwork and perseverance. Mrs. Seriki dreads where most men cannot dread. Her success has brought courage to a lot of women in the society to work hard and achieve a success.

ekundayo
Sep 7, 2010, 06:14 PM
My first reaction on reading this was, man, you must be a long time gone from Nigeria. I've got to agree with DewDrops here...there's no Nigerian man I've met who is EVER going to give you respect, appreciation, praise, and what is rightfully yours in the workplace or outside the workplace. You don't know HOW MANY TIMES my ideas and suggestions at office meetings have been "adopted" by others (men) who magically appear in the next week's minutes with their name linked to said suggestion. I can come up with the most brilliant of ideas, will not be recognized for it, but it will be implemented and some other ass will get the credit for it and any financial rewards linked. Disgusting. Nigerian men are some of the wickedest on the planet. They believe women were only put here to do one thing: serve them and their needs ( no matter your relation ), selfish ill-mannered creatures that they are....

Dewdrops
Sep 7, 2010, 08:38 PM
No Lone*Star(please y'all should start gerrrin' used to my new name ejor o) :cool:

The above was not the point of your original discourse, in your earlier post, you claimed that there were no Nigerian women, making it in their own rights. I would not have responded with those names if you did not make that statement. There you have it in that list I provided for you. It is not everybody that has an opportunity to make far reaching changes in the society, but by tidying up one's corner, one is certainly making a difference. Even if they are engaged in Fufu business, they are obviously self-employed, some of them have charted new courses and they are certainly a beacon of hope for young women.

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------



And in the situation where there are few women worth their salt in public service, what should those who make a difference in the private sector do ? Abandon their jobs, because they are not in full glare of the public?

Let us be careful not to take 'words' out of context.
Many women are making it in their own rights in Nigeria including my grandmother who used to live in the village of Agenegbode before she passed on.

You are missing the point since you are bogged down with the specifics of this gender-inequality bizz-buzz!

Yes, there are MANY women making it by surviving from day to day on their own.......fine.
My emphasis is on the over-all state of women affairs in Nigeria......which remains pitiful.
No, I do not expect any Nigerian woman in the private sector to abandon her 'fufu' business to engage in public service as a trade off for her voice to be heard.

Only in the private sector can women truly excel for now as petty traders and contract hustlers. Yup...wharrreva it takes to "make it".

The topic of this thread is "gender equality in Nigeria".....

Fact or fiction......Fiction!
Myth or reality......Myth!

Case closed!

What exactly are we debating here then.....to give the 'few' women some brownie points for still lagging behind their male counterparts even by the most conservative standards compared to the other parts of the world???


I think not!

We have a long way to go for real as Nigerian women......up to us to liberate ourselves.....than play second fiddle all in the name of tradition/culture and shario-christian idolataries or worships!

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 PM ----------


My first reaction on reading this was, man, you must be a long time gone from Nigeria. I've got to agree with DewDrops here...there's no Nigerian man I've met who is EVER going to give you respect, appreciation, praise, and what is rightfully yours in the workplace or outside the workplace. You don't know HOW MANY TIMES my ideas and suggestions at office meetings have been "adopted" by others (men) who magically appear in the next week's minutes with their name linked to said suggestion. I can come up with the most brilliant of ideas, will not be recognized for it, but it will be implemented and some other ass will get the credit for it and any financial rewards linked. Disgusting. Nigerian men are some of the wickedest on the planet. They believe women were only put here to do one thing: serve them and their needs ( no matter your relation ), selfish ill-mannered creatures that they are....

Tell me about it! If you wanno see how wicked and selfish a NIGERIAN man is......try to excel above his sorry existence of mediocrity.....you are a gunner for sure. :shake:
You must kiss his filthy arse and kiss it gooooooooood and keep kissing it goooooooooood no marra how filthy......Tufiakwa!

They would do everything in their power to sabotage your fruitful efforts even where they would benefit from it all.

Thank you jare. That was my first reaction when Oga N.A.R. started this thread. I'm like....Is he for real? What Nigeria did he or does he live in???? Then I saw all the ancient relic of names like "Mama Fela" and "Kuforiji-Olubi"(I last heard of when I was some 2 years old...LOL)
I don't know if we just like to debate dogmatically or we just don't like to read or hear the truth.
Even the most educated ones will envy you and try to pull you down if you dare succeed above them.
You are either an 'ashewo' or an 'unmarriageable' wench of a female if you try to do so much as use your brains.
Try to get a job in Nigeria as woman in the public or private sector and see for yourself.


First of all.....a man will interview you and you know what that means.
Your interview will be set for some ungodly hour of 2AM to get screwed.....:lol:
Then you keep sleeping your way through from the meghidad to the oga to keep that bloody job.
Not the slightest room to improve your self-worth based on the merit of your academic and professional portfolios.
Look.....I lived in Nigeria and I have many friends(married and single) who live in Nigeria working in corporate and private sectors of the Nigerian economy. One of the main reasons I had to leave....sexual harassment and gender inequality! No regrets. I WILL NEVER GO BACK!

I don't envy ANY of them, especially if they are 'making it' in those Sodom-mic and Gomorrah-man metropolitan cities of Lagos.....Abuja and the likes. Hell no! Come see competition with all kinds of fetish mentalities......with money for hand....back for ground degrees!

Look what happens when these women are old and grey. No retirement benefits unless their husbands left some 'loot' of course....they become liabilities to their children and grand children.

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------


I am catching up with the discussion eyo! Madam Dewdrops, glad to chee you back, dem don already knack you red card again??? Nah wire eyo...Anyhow, seeing that Sis Eko did dish out some names, I am selecting randomly.....

Thank you for the the warm welcome.....he he he
Oh Yes O! I will not use my report button since my efforts to do just that were duly sabotaged by the powers that think they be. They have lost that privilege from me for ever. So diafore.....I will duly slaaaaaaaaaap any offensive creatures myself that DARE to type any nonsense in my direction.....to make these inconsequential cyber riff-raffs around here to CLEARLY understand that we are not ALL in the same class of desperate affection-seeking folk or dying for a 'cyber hook-up' or wharrrrrreva around here. Make dem ban if dem wan ban....me nor go come back lai lai....so make dem go find dem mates dey do that "please love me" nonsense with. I nor be single and still searching for spouse in Jonathan Goodluck's cabinet of cyber spinsters...I nor be illegal alien looking for someone to gif me residence permit.....ho-ha! Just here to post shiiiit and have a doggone good time period. The days of signing moniker after moniker around here is so OVA. I don't care! 3 years almost here is enough.....you don't need me.....I don't need you period! No love lost! Got me lots of real love off the cyber and not dying to catch one yeye one on the cyber....twa! A bloody waste ma time for sure!

If I break the rules.....or so-called rules.....I will gladly take the punishment. As an American citizen....I do not negotiate with 'terrorists'!

Back to the topic at hand.



Funmi Iyanda...

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---------- Post added at 01:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

Are you sure this lady is a Nigerian, I cannot place the name and face! But it appears she might be from the North East and not core north. Like old Gongola State.

Ayesha Mei-Tje Imam

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/Global/international/planet-2/graphics/2008/8/ayesha-imam-march-2008.jpg


---------- Post added at 01:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ----------

Okay,
I just watched her promo clip for a few minutes and walahi, you must BOW for this string woman eyo!!!!

Check out her promo at her company website. (http://www.omatekcomputers.com/company_profile.html)

Mrs Florence Seriki

http://www.w-teconline.org/images/board/florence_seriki.png


he he he



1. Florence Seriki
2. Funmi Iyanda
3. Hilary Izundu Unachukwu
4. Dr. Denloye
5. Aisha Tje-Imam
6. Dr. Akindayomi
7. Nike Ogunlesi
8. Ayo Obe
9. Dr. Franca Ovadje
10. Benedikter Molokwu
11. Ndidi Nwuneli
12. Cynthia Mosunmola Umoru
13. Patricia Ojora
14. Temitope Esisi
15. Azukaego Freda Chukwuma
16. Florence Kemisola Shekoni
17. Domingo Ibironke
18. Adebiyi Olubukola
19. Ayodeji Megbope
20. Fayo Williams
21. SISI EKO

Back to the question at hand. Mr. N.A.R....you are derailing your own thread. Of what use are all these names? Do we all have to have 'egba' blood in our lineage or have 'Egyptian' heritage from 'awusaland' in our livers and kidneys to have to make it in hell-holes like Lagos and Abuja??? :lol:

Were are the other women from the other parts of Nigeria biko kwa nu?

Gender Equality In Nigeria: Fact or Fiction, Myth Vs Reality?

Answer....Generally-speaking.......!!!

Yes...it is a Fiction!
Yes...it is a Myth!

Anything else will constitute a thread derailment.

Cased closed!

Off to work abeg......:cool:

valteena
Sep 7, 2010, 09:53 PM
Let us be careful not to take 'words' out of context.
Many women are making it in their own rights in Nigeria including my grandmother who used to live in the village of Agenegbode before she passed on.

You are missing the point since you are bogged down with the specifics of this gender-inequality bizz-buzz!

Yes, there are MANY women making it by surviving from day to day on their own.......fine.
My emphasis is on the over-all state of women affairs in Nigeria......which remains pitiful.
No, I do not expect any Nigerian woman in the private sector to abandon her 'fufu' business to engage in public service as a trade off for her voice to be heard.

Only in the private sector can women truly excel for now as petty traders and contract hustlers. Yup...wharrreva it takes to "make it".

The topic of this thread is "gender equality in Nigeria".....

Fact or fiction......Fiction!
Myth or reality......Myth!

Case closed!

What exactly are we debating here then.....to give the 'few' women some brownie points for still lagging behind their male counterparts even by the most conservative standards compared to the other parts of the world???


I think not!

We have a long way to go for real as Nigerian women......up to us to liberate ourselves.....than play second fiddle all in the name of tradition/culture and shario-christian idolataries or worships![COLOR="Blue"]

I second that "case closed". The fact and reality is that Nigerian women have a long long way to go compared with their counterpart else where even in Africa. Nigerian culture is male dominated in terms of male acquisition of territory and resources, and remains patriarchal. Although women can vote, actively participate in business and politics, and they outnumber men in higher education, heads of state/presidents, cabinet ministers, and the top executives of major companies are still mostly men. Also, women's average income is still significantly lower than men's average income.

Just check out this figures of women in parliament the world over for instance. Nigerian have only 7% women in parliament compared to other African countries like Mozambique, Uganda, Tunisia to mention just a few. And just imagine Rwanda a war torn country tops every other nation in the world with 56.3% women in parliament.



Women in national parliaments

Situation as of 31 July 2010

The data in the table below has been compiled by the Inter-Parliamentary Union on the basis of information provided by National Parliaments by 31 July 2010. 186 countries are classified by descending order of the percentage of women in the lower or single House. Comparative data on the world and regional averages as well as data concerning the two regional parliamentary assemblies elected by direct suffrage can be found on separate pages. You can use the PARLINE database to view detailed results of parliamentary elections by country.
New: You can now consult our archive of statistical data on the percentage of women in national parliaments.
WORLD CLASSIFICATION
Rank Country Lower or single House Upper House or Senate
Elections Seats* Women % W Elections Seats* Women % W
1 Rwanda 9 2008 80 45 56.3% 10 2003 26 9 34.6%
2 Sweden 9 2006 349 162 46.4% --- --- --- ---
3 South Africa 1 4 2009 400 178 44.5% 4 2009 54 16 29.6%
4 Cuba 1 2008 614 265 43.2% --- --- --- ---
5 Iceland 4 2009 63 27 42.9% --- --- --- ---
6 Netherlands 6 2010 150 61 40.7% 5 2007 75 26 34.7%
7 Finland 3 2007 200 80 40.0% --- --- --- ---
8 Norway 9 2009 169 67 39.6% --- --- --- ---
9 Belgium 6 2010 150 59 39.3% 6 2010 40 17 42.5%
10 Mozambique 10 2009 250 98 39.2% --- --- --- ---
11 Angola 9 2008 220 85 38.6% --- --- --- ---
" Costa Rica 2 2010 57 22 38.6% --- --- --- ---
12 Argentina 6 2009 257 99 38.5% 6 2009 71 25 35.2%
13 Denmark 11 2007 179 68 38.0% --- --- --- ---
14 Spain 3 2008 350 128 36.6% 3 2008 263 81 30.8%
15 Andorra 4 2009 28 10 35.7% --- --- --- ---
16 New Zealand 11 2008 122 41 33.6% --- --- --- ---
17 Nepal 4 2008 594 197 33.2% --- --- --- ---
18 Germany 9 2009 622 204 32.8% N.A. 69 15 21.7%
19 The F.Y.R. of Macedonia 6 2008 120 39 32.5% --- --- --- ---
20 Ecuador 4 2009 124 40 32.3% --- --- --- ---
21 Burundi 7 2010 106 34 32.1% 7 2010 41 19 46.3%
22 Belarus 9 2008 110 35 31.8% 7 2008 58 19 32.8%
23 Uganda 2 2006 324 102 31.5% --- --- --- ---
24 United Republic of Tanzania 12 2005 323 99 30.7% --- --- --- ---
25 Guyana 8 2006 70 21 30.0% --- --- --- ---
26 Timor-Leste 6 2007 65 19 29.2% --- --- --- ---
27 Switzerland 10 2007 200 58 29.0% 10 2007 46 10 21.7%
28 Trinidad and Tobago 5 2010 42 12 28.6% 6 2010 31 8 25.8%
29 Austria 9 2008 183 51 27.9% N.A. 61 18 29.5%
30 Ethiopia 5 2010 547 152 27.8% 10 2005 112 21 18.8%
31 Tunisia 10 2009 214 59 27.6% 8 2008 112 17 15.2%
32 Peru 4 2006 120 33 27.5% --- --- --- ---
33 Portugal 9 2009 230 63 27.4% --- --- --- ---
34 Afghanistan 9 2005 249 68 27.3% 2 2010 102 28 27.5%
" Australia 11 2007 150 41 27.3% 11 2007 76 27 35.5%
35 Namibia 11 2009 67 18 26.9% 11 2004 26 7 26.9%
36 Mexico 7 2009 500 131 26.2% 7 2006 128 25 19.5%
37 Monaco 2 2008 23 6 26.1% --- --- --- ---
38 Viet Nam 5 2007 493 127 25.8% --- --- --- ---
39 Kyrgyzstan 12 2007 90 23 25.6% --- --- --- ---
" Sudan 4 2010 446 114 25.6% 5 2010 46 5 10.9%
40 Bolivia 12 2009 130 33 25.4% 12 2009 36 17 47.2%
41 Iraq 3 2010 325 82 25.2% --- --- --- ---
" Lao People's Democratic Republic 4 2006 115 29 25.2% --- --- --- ---
42 Lesotho 2 2007 120 29 24.2% 3 2007 33 6 18.2%
43 Liechtenstein 2 2009 25 6 24.0% --- --- --- ---
44 Republic of Moldova 7 2009 101 24 23.8% --- --- --- ---
45 Croatia 11 2007 153 36 23.5% --- --- --- ---
" Seychelles 5 2007 34 8 23.5% --- --- --- ---
46 Singapore 5 2006 94 22 23.4% --- --- --- ---
47 Estonia 3 2007 101 23 22.8% --- --- --- ---
48 Senegal 6 2007 150 34 22.7% 8 2007 100 40 40.0%
49 United Arab Emirates 12 2006 40 9 22.5% --- --- --- ---
50 Pakistan 2 2008 342 76 22.2% 3 2009 100 17 17.0%
51 Canada 10 2008 308 68 22.1% N.A. 93 32 34.4%
" Mauritania 11 2006 95 21 22.1% 11 2009 56 8 14.3%
52 Czech Republic 5 2010 200 44 22.0% 10 2008 81 14 17.3%
" Eritrea 2 1994 150 33 22.0% --- --- --- ---
" Latvia 10 2006 100 22 22.0% --- --- --- ---
" United Kingdom 5 2010 650 143 22.0% N.A. 733 147 20.1%
" Uzbekistan 12 2009 150 33 22.0% 1 2010 100 15 15.0%
53 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 12 2005 23 5 21.7% --- --- --- ---
54 Serbia 5 2008 250 54 21.6% --- --- --- ---
55 Philippines 5 2010 229 49 21.4% 5 2010 23 3 13.0%
56 China 3 2008 2987 637 21.3% --- --- --- ---
" Italy 4 2008 630 134 21.3% 4 2008 322 59 18.3%
57 Cambodia 7 2008 123 26 21.1% 1 2006 61 9 14.8%
58 Bulgaria 7 2009 240 50 20.8% --- --- --- ---
" Dominican Republic 5 2010 183 38 20.8% 5 2010 32 3 9.4%
" Malawi 5 2009 192 40 20.8% --- --- --- ---
59 Nicaragua 11 2006 92 19 20.7% --- --- --- ---
60 Luxembourg 6 2009 60 12 20.0% --- --- --- ---
" Poland 10 2007 460 92 20.0% 10 2007 100 8 8.0%
61 Dominica 12 2009 26 5 19.2% --- --- --- ---
62 Lithuania 10 2008 141 27 19.1% --- --- --- ---
63 Bosnia and Herzegovina 10 2006 42 8 19.0% 3 2007 15 2 13.3%
" El Salvador 1 2009 84 16 19.0% --- --- --- ---
" Tajikistan 2 2010 63 12 19.0% 3 2010 34 5 14.7%
64 France 6 2007 577 109 18.9% 9 2008 343 75 21.9%
65 Mauritius 5 2010 69 13 18.8% --- --- --- ---
66 Bangladesh 12 2008 345 64 18.6% --- --- --- ---
67 Israel 2 2009 120 22 18.3% --- --- --- ---
68 Cape Verde 1 2006 72 13 18.1% --- --- --- ---
69 Honduras 11 2009 128 23 18.0% --- --- --- ---
" Indonesia 4 2009 560 101 18.0% --- --- --- ---
70 Kazakhstan 8 2007 107 19 17.8% 10 2008 47 2 4.3%
71 Venezuela 12 2005 166 29 17.5% --- --- --- ---
72 Greece 10 2009 300 52 17.3% --- --- --- ---
73 Turkmenistan 12 2008 125 21 16.8% --- --- --- ---
" United States of America 2 11 2008 435 73 16.8% 11 2008 98 15 15.3%
74 San Marino 11 2008 60 10 16.7% --- --- --- ---
75 Albania 6 2009 140 23 16.4% --- --- --- ---
76 Democratic People's Republic of Korea 3 2009 687 107 15.6% --- --- --- ---
77 Burkina Faso 5 2007 111 17 15.3% --- --- --- ---
" Slovakia 6 2010 150 23 15.3% --- --- --- ---
78 Uruguay 10 2009 99 15 15.2% 10 2009 31 4 12.9%
79 Zimbabwe 3 2008 214 32 15.0% 3 2008 99 24 24.2%
80 Gabon 1 2009 116 17 14.7% 1 2009 102 18 17.6%
" Republic of Korea 4 2008 299 44 14.7% --- --- --- ---
81 Slovenia 9 2008 90 13 14.4% 11 2007 40 1 2.5%
82 Chile 12 2009 120 17 14.2% 12 2009 38 5 13.2%
83 Russian Federation 12 2007 450 63 14.0% N.A. 169 8 4.7%
" Zambia 9 2006 157 22 14.0% --- --- --- ---
84 Cameroon 7 2007 180 25 13.9% --- --- --- ---
" Ireland 5 2007 165 23 13.9% 7 2007 59 13 22.0%
85 Djibouti 2 2008 65 9 13.8% --- --- --- ---
86 Swaziland 9 2008 66 9 13.6% 10 2008 30 12 40.0%
87 Grenada 7 2008 15 2 13.3% 8 2008 13 4 30.8%
" Jamaica 9 2007 60 8 13.3% 9 2007 21 3 14.3%
" Thailand 12 2007 473 63 13.3% 3 2008 150 24 16.0%
88 Sierra Leone 8 2007 121 16 13.2% --- --- --- ---
89 Cyprus 5 2006 56 7 12.5% --- --- --- ---
" Liberia 10 2005 64 8 12.5% 10 2005 30 5 16.7%
" Paraguay 4 2008 80 10 12.5% 4 2008 45 7 15.6%
90 Syrian Arab Republic 4 2007 250 31 12.4% --- --- --- ---
91 Bahamas 5 2007 41 5 12.2% 5 2007 15 5 33.3%
92 Guatemala 9 2007 158 19 12.0% --- --- --- ---
93 Azerbaijan 11 2005 123 14 11.4% --- --- --- ---
" Romania 11 2008 334 38 11.4% 11 2008 137 8 5.8%
94 Japan 8 2009 480 54 11.3% 7 2010 242 44 18.2%
95 Montenegro 3 2009 81 9 11.1% --- --- --- ---
" Saint Lucia 12 2006 18 2 11.1% 1 2007 11 4 36.4%
" Togo 10 2007 81 9 11.1% --- --- --- ---
96 Benin 3 2003 83 9 10.8% --- --- --- ---
" India 4 2009 545 59 10.8% 7 2008 233 21 9.0%
97 Antigua and Barbuda 3 2009 19 2 10.5% 4 2009 17 5 29.4%
" Morocco 9 2007 325 34 10.5% 10 2009 270 6 2.2%
98 Mali 7 2007 147 15 10.2% --- --- --- ---
99 Barbados 1 2008 30 3 10.0% 2 2008 21 7 33.3%
" Equatorial Guinea 5 2008 100 10 10.0% --- --- --- ---
" Guinea-Bissau 11 2008 100 10 10.0% --- --- --- ---
100 Malaysia 3 2008 222 22 9.9% N.A. 64 18 28.1%
101 Kenya 12 2007 224 22 9.8% --- --- --- ---
" Suriname 5 2010 51 5 9.8% --- --- --- ---
102 Central African Republic 3 2005 104 10 9.6% --- --- --- ---
103 Armenia 5 2007 131 12 9.2% --- --- --- ---
104 Hungary 4 2010 386 35 9.1% --- --- --- ---
" Turkey 7 2007 549 50 9.1% --- --- --- ---
105 Cote d'Ivoire 12 2000 203 18 8.9% --- --- --- ---
106 Brazil 10 2006 513 45 8.8% 10 2006 81 10 12.3%
107 Malta 3 2008 69 6 8.7% --- --- --- ---
108 Bhutan 3 2008 47 4 8.5% 12 2007 25 6 24.0%
" Panama 5 2009 71 6 8.5% --- --- --- ---
109 Democratic Republic of the Congo 7 2006 500 42 8.4% 1 2007 108 5 4.6%
110 Ghana 12 2008 230 19 8.3% --- --- --- ---
111 Samoa 3 2006 49 4 8.2% --- --- --- ---
112 Ukraine 9 2007 450 36 8.0% --- --- --- ---
113 Botswana 10 2009 63 5 7.9% --- --- --- ---
114 Algeria 5 2007 389 30 7.7% 12 2009 136 7 5.1%
" Kuwait 5 2009 65 5 7.7% --- --- --- ---
" Libyan Arab Jamahiriya 3 2009 468 36 7.7% --- --- --- ---
115 Gambia 1 2002 53 4 7.5% --- --- --- ---
116 Congo 6 2007 137 10 7.3% 8 2008 70 9 12.9%
" Sao Tome and Principe 3 2006 55 4 7.3% --- --- --- ---
117 Nigeria 4 2007 358 25 7.0% 4 2007 109 9 8.3%
118 Somalia 8 2004 546 37 6.8% --- --- --- ---
119 Saint Kitts and Nevis 1 2010 15 1 6.7% --- --- --- ---
120 Georgia 5 2008 138 9 6.5% --- --- --- ---
" Maldives 5 2009 77 5 6.5% --- --- --- ---
121 Jordan 11 2007 110 7 6.4% 12 2009 55 7 12.7%
122 Sri Lanka 4 2010 225 12 5.3% --- --- --- ---
123 Chad 4 2002 155 8 5.2% --- --- --- ---
124 Kiribati 8 2007 46 2 4.3% --- --- --- ---
125 Haiti 2 2006 98 4 4.1% 4 2009 29 2 6.9%
126 Mongolia 6 2008 76 3 3.9% --- --- --- ---
127 Vanuatu 9 2008 52 2 3.8% --- --- --- ---
128 Lebanon 6 2009 128 4 3.1% --- --- --- ---
" Tonga 3 4 2008 32 1 3.1% --- --- --- ---
129 Comoros 12 2009 33 1 3.0% --- --- --- ---
" Marshall Islands 11 2007 33 1 3.0% --- --- --- ---
130 Iran (Islamic Republic of) 3 2008 290 8 2.8% --- --- --- ---
131 Bahrain 11 2006 40 1 2.5% 12 2006 40 10 25.0%
132 Egypt 11 2005 454 8 1.8% 6 2010 264 ? ?
133 Papua New Guinea 6 2007 109 1 0.9% --- --- --- ---
134 Yemen 4 2003 301 1 0.3% 4 2001 111 2 1.8%
135 Belize 2 2008 32 0 0.0% 3 2008 13 5 38.5%
" Micronesia (Federated States of) 3 2009 14 0 0.0% --- --- --- ---
" Nauru 6 2010 18 0 0.0% --- --- --- ---
" Oman 10 2007 84 0 0.0% 11 2007 72 14 19.4%
" Palau 11 2008 16 0 0.0% 11 2008 13 2 15.4%
" Qatar 7 2010 35 0 0.0% --- --- --- ---
" Saudi Arabia 2 2009 150 0 0.0% --- --- --- ---
" Solomon Islands 4 2006 50 0 0.0% --- --- --- ---
" Tuvalu 8 2006 15 0 0.0% --- --- --- ---
? Colombia 3 2010 166 ? ? 3 2010 102 ? ?
* Figures correspond to the number of seats currently filled in Parliament

http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm#2

Obugi
Sep 7, 2010, 10:29 PM
Valteena,

There is no society or collective where any two groups or individuals are equal. It's an impossibility. It is not a natural state.

So what I hear is an aggrieved group thirsting for dominance. Fair enough. Nothing wrong with wanting to be boss or ascendant. Even if it means allying with those dedicated to trampling on Africans.

One thing I do know for sure is that a matriarchal/female dominated Nigeria/Africa will be a disaster for African men. We've seen Negro Martriarchy in America and the UK, and it's not a happy experience.

You could say that patriarchy hasn't done much better for Africa and I accept that.

The truth is that neither African men or women can be trusted with dominance over their fellow Africans.

The most dangerous state of existence for a Negro is to have your welfare subject to the conscience of another Negro. The things that held us together have been destroyed and we have "fallen apart".

Faced with such a reality, each of us is on our own. Your life is your life. You are what you are based on your genetic attributes and their utility in the environment in which you live. If you are disadvantaged and can't leave the hostile environment, it is because you don't possess the attributes that will enable you to escape, so you belong where you are. The life story of supermodel Oluchi Nwagba is instructive. Whether fate smiles on you or consigns you to the bottom of the heap, embrace your fate with the knowledge that it's only for a time. 120yrs at the max if you're lucky, then the maggots get you.

People who speak of Nigeria as some sort of hell on earth are those who simply couldn't and can't make it in Nigeria. I too used to think Nigeria was hell on earth. I now know better. If you you're oppressed in Nigeria......or the USA or anywhere else, you're getting just what you deserve. Show me perfection when you find it, that way I won't have to wait for heaven :lol:

Anyone that feels oppressed should please pick up a gun and do something about it. Anything less is hot air.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 12:50 AM
My first reaction on reading this was, man, you must be a long time gone from Nigeria. I've got to agree with DewDrops here...there's no Nigerian man I've met who is EVER going to give you respect, appreciation, praise, and what is rightfully yours in the workplace or outside the workplace. You don't know HOW MANY TIMES my ideas and suggestions at office meetings have been "adopted" by others (men) who magically appear in the next week's minutes with their name linked to said suggestion. I can come up with the most brilliant of ideas, will not be recognized for it, but it will be implemented and some other ass will get the credit for it and any financial rewards linked. Disgusting. Nigerian men are some of the wickedest on the planet. They believe women were only put here to do one thing: serve them and their needs ( no matter your relation ), selfish ill-mannered creatures that they are....

I can relate very well.
At my place of employment we were exploring new ways of doing something and I suggested what I thought was a brilliant idea.
The departmental head quickly silenced me and every other voices and imposed his.
I have no idea why someone would call a meeting to discuss ideas and come up with a plan when he already had a plan etched in stone.
Anyway we tried his for 3 days,it didn't work
Guess what?
My original idea is now being implemented and I got no credit for it.

That's what men do

all men do it
If you're married,your husband probably does the same
You advise him,honey let's do it this way,he does it that way then 2 months later he tells you he has new idea or solution on how it could be done and and he proceeds to tell you the exact same thing you told him 2 months prior.
Men!
Very stubborn creatures:pray::pray::pray:

But all these are our examples are pretty mild compared to the main subject matter
The world at large is a male dominated place but thankfully laws are being instituted to protect women in civilized societies of which Nigeria is not one and even if laws were put in place in Nigeria,who would enforce it.
We are talking about a place where a man would beat up his wife,she goes to the police and they tell her to go home and be a good wife or a girl is raped and a judge asks what she was doing with a man alone?
We have a looooooooooooong way to go

valteena
Sep 8, 2010, 01:21 AM
Valteena,

There is no society or collective where any two groups or individuals are equal. It's an impossibility. It is not a natural state.

So what I hear is an aggrieved group thirsting for dominance. Fair enough. Nothing wrong with wanting to be boss or ascendant. Even if it means allying with those dedicated to trampling on Africans.

One thing I do know for sure is that a matriarchal/female dominated Nigeria/Africa will be a disaster for African men. We've seen Negro Martriarchy in America and the UK, and it's not a happy experience.

You could say that patriarchy hasn't done much better for Africa and I accept that.

[B]The truth is that neither African men or women can be trusted with dominance over their fellow Africans.

The most dangerous state of existence for a Negro is to have your welfare subject to the conscience of another Negro. The things that held us together have been destroyed and we have "fallen apart".

Faced with such a reality, each of us is on our own. Your life is your life. You are what you are based on your genetic attributes and their utility in the environment in which you live. If you are disadvantaged and can't leave the hostile environment, it is because you don't possess the attributes that will enable you to escape, so you belong where you are. The life story of supermodel Oluchi Nwagba is instructive. Whether fate smiles on you or consigns you to the bottom of the heap, embrace your fate with the knowledge that it's only for a time. 120yrs at the max if you're lucky, then the maggots get you.

People who speak of Nigeria as some sort of hell on earth are those who simply couldn't and can't make it in Nigeria. I too used to think Nigeria was hell on earth. I now know better. If you you're oppressed in Nigeria......or the USA or anywhere else, you're getting just what you deserve. Show me perfection when you find it, that way I won't have to wait for heaven :lol:

Anyone that feels oppressed should please pick up a gun and do something about it. Anything less is hot air.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.


Patriarchy has been the dominant method of organizing human society in most countries including the US and is still is. The US society allows for men's predominating in roles associated with governing societies. And every institution and frame work has been established to entrenched this inequality of social roles between men and women. If America was a matriachial country, why was it a common question during the last US election to ask " Is America ready for Madame President?" when Hilary contested the Democratic presidential nomination with Obama?

Many in Western society believe that their society is a patriarchy that primarily oppresses women and decades of legislation and affirmative action have not yet changed the fact that western culture is male dominated and remains patriarchal. Therefore trying to take a small unit out of the wider society and present it as different from the general societal trend is trying to be smart by half with your argument.

If you're indeed fair with your argument you will realise that in terms of where the real power (economic, social and political) lies, the "Negro Martriarchy in America and the UK" as you term it is not really a matriarchy. Despite the fact that many Negro families are headed by women, this happens as a result of desertion, divorce or family break-up. Most of these women headed families are concentrated in the lower end of the socio-economic scale, and have limited economic power or political and social influence.

The mother does have a special place in the family, she is placed on a pedestal and accorded a great deal of respect. But ultimately especially with regard to the older generation, much of this respect is superficial, and no one really listens to much of what she has to say. She is adored and feted, but ultimately her role is to care for her brood and not much else. In women-headed households the son or another male relative like a son-in-law will often assume the real position of authority in the family anyway.

You may be right that Nigerian/African men can't be trusted with dominance over their fellow Africans. They have yet to prove otherwise with their years of leadership of the country/continent. But you can not claim to know for a fact that it is the case with the women folks. And no I don't agree that "a matriarchal/female dominated Nigeria/Africa will be a disaster for African men" or the larger society because I believe the politics of the women folks would be more different from the status quo.

Yes gender is a factor in the current messy state of our country and the world in general and can be a major factor for a positive future. Why? Because women generally do not have the high destructive hunger for power, domination, hierarchies, wars which to me is organised killing and extreme violence towards other humans. Therefore a society governed by majority of such creature, is bound to usher in a life that is organised based on needs and is more peaceful, less violent and simply human.

This is why it is highly important to recognise the significance of having more women in governance and leadership position as a way of solving our present dire failed society. Women can show the path to an egalitarian society in Nigeria and the world in general that combines humanness with politics to create a different economy and society.

Mind you I am not proposing a reversal of roles for women to rule over men. Rather the point being made here is for equality. And by equality, I do not mean levelling the differences as in having equal number of men and women in all activities and areas of human endeavour. It just means that class hierarchy or the domination of one gender by the other which is an undeniable fact should cease. Of course men and women are distinctly different but no one gender is superior to the other. That is what the concept of equality of sexes means to me, that the natural differences between both genders are respected and honoured, so that they both enjoy same opportunity to pursue their desires and serve to create a just society.

Obugi
Sep 8, 2010, 02:16 AM
Valteena,


Patriarchy has been the dominant method of organizing human society in most countries including the US and is still is. The US society allows for men's predominating in roles associated with governing societies. And every institution and frame work has been established to entrenched this inequality of social roles between men and women. If America was a matriachial country, why was it a common question during the last US election to ask " Is America ready for Madame President?" when Hilary contested the Democratic presidential nomination with Obama?

Many in Western society believe that their society is a patriarchy that primarily oppresses women and decades of legislation and affirmative action have not yet changed the fact that western culture is male dominated and remains patriarchal. Therefore trying to take a small unit out of the wider society and present it as different from the general societal trend is trying to be smart by half with your argument

I never claimed that America is a matriarchal society.

America is dominated by White Males.

Those White Males have used their power to convert the Black/Negro community into a matriarchy because it is a well known fact that matriarchal societies are weak and vulnerable to domination by outsiders. It is sexual divide and rule analogous to ethnic divide and rule. It is the promotion of an unnatural state that NATURALLY leads to the destabilization of communities.

In times of slavery it was done by separating men from the mothers of their children.

In modern times it has been done by providing Negro women welfare and better jobs than Negro men so that they could view their men as being of no use except for sex.

This view of Negro men is why 77% of Black children in the USA are born as illegitimate bastards, with all the resultant deleterious effects. This behavior is NOT confined to lower class Negro households or individuals. The few Negroes who do get married have the highest divorce rates.

The rate of non-marriage among high earning Black Females is very high, at least much higher than similarly placed women of other races. Ponder this, and please check it very well: among women of all races, in every economic class, from the ghetto to the Boardroom, Black Women are the only ones with a lower rate of marriage than their male racial counterparts.

My contention is that there is no way to ensure equality anywhere, whether racial, sexual, ethnic or national. It is not natural. So when it comes to men and women, there MUST be a dominant sex. The only question is who is going to be dominant. Your visions of equality are null on arrival, such a state doesn't exist in nature. You might as well fantasize about finding ice cubes inside an active volcano.

We have seen the results of Negro matriarchy in America and the UK and they have been disastrous for Negro males. You have your matriarchy there and it works for you, enjoy it. Please leave Africans alone. We have made our choices, enjoy yours.

All you see has been ordained by God. It is His Will. That he hasn't changed his mind despite all the feminist slander thrown at African men may be because you haven't been faithful Christians, he doesn't shower blessings on hypocrites.

I'm sure the millions of poverty stricken men that exist in Nigeria don't feel so dominant compared to some of the females on Sisi Eko's list.

My sisters. They live well, single or married. I wonder why any woman would feel oppressed when my sisters and mother are so happy....oh, my mother lives in America. The perfect country.

Destiny is a mother****a and Fate is a bitch.

If you disagree with God then take up your guns and do what you feel. Talk is cheap.

!Life Is A Market!
Obugi.

Dewdrops
Sep 8, 2010, 02:51 AM
@ Valteena.
No need to write much at this time.
Thank you for bringing us back to the topic of this thread.
I will sit back and watch the 'derailment' exercise for now. :lol:
I don't know if some peeps do not want to recognize the reality.

By the way, na who dey put all those ugly five yellow stars for all these threads of this ENU-VEE-ESH?

Even some crayfish threads wey never get 2 posts get 5 stars.
Just in 'wonderment' as usual.

Obugi
Sep 8, 2010, 05:01 AM
Valteena,


Yes gender is a factor in the current messy state of our country and the world in general and can be a major factor for a positive future. Why? Because women generally do not have the high destructive hunger for power, domination, hierarchies, wars which to me is organised killing and extreme violence towards other humans. Therefore a society governed by majority of such creature, is bound to usher in a life that is organised based on needs and is more peaceful, less violent and simply human.

A humanity without war? :lol: Clausewitz or whoever said it: only the dead have seen the end of war.

Dream on, sister. Do you ever think about this - that it is the most rutheless and vicious women who will make it to the top in a matriarchal society?

You have a very sentimental and emotional outlook on life. You are a woman sha so what can I say.

I wish you happy dreams of an Utopian World :lol:

!Get Yours!
Obugi.

Ajibs
Sep 8, 2010, 05:31 AM
I should add a general note here as regards this discussion. Two things that I would like to be considered especially by the strong women in the discussion:

First: When comparing to other countries, how does gender equality in Nigeria match up with other countries. Going from extreme states like Saudi Arabia to more liberal states like some European countries, I believe like Germany and Netherlands. I bring this up as it is common knowledge that women are discriminated against in most societies in the world, BUT at varying levels, some despicable and other more acceptable. Now the second part of this question / discussion is where should Nigeria be as regards this, and is there a model country out there to emulate or give as an example of where gender equality exists.

Second: Going by what is being said here, Nigerian women have quite a tough time in the work place in Nigeria. So does this mean that the educational attention that the Nigerian government has give the female gender is all a rouse? A waste seeing that the women are constantly discriminated against? Is the plan to educate the womenfolk for the kitchen and bedroom only? The last arm of this comment is, would it be correct to say that the major obstacles to gender equality in Nigeria are the traditional values that still exist in most Nigerian societies that project a male dominated society?

City Girl
Sep 8, 2010, 08:12 AM
I should add a general note here as regards this discussion. Two things that I would like to be considered especially by the strong women in the discussion:

First: When comparing to other countries, how does gender equality in Nigeria match up with other countries. Going from extreme states like Saudi Arabia to more liberal states like some European countries, I believe like Germany and Netherlands. I bring this up as it is common knowledge that women are discriminated against in most societies in the world, BUT at varying levels, some despicable and other more acceptable. Now the second part of this question / discussion is where should Nigeria be as regards this, and is there a model country out there to emulate or give as an example of where gender equality exists.

Second: Going by what is being said here, Nigerian women have quite a tough time in the work place in Nigeria. So does this mean that the educational attention that the Nigerian government has give the female gender is all a rouse? A waste seeing that the women are constantly discriminated against? Is the plan to educate the womenfolk for the kitchen and bedroom only? The last arm of this comment is, would it be correct to say that the major obstacles to gender equality in Nigeria are the traditional values that still exist in most Nigerian societies that project a male dominated society?

For avoidance of doubt, gender equality in my opinion is lopsided in our society. My issue is this: are there women who are making a difference in their immediate environment as against

Any modern independent Nigerian woman IN NIGERIA making it on her own?
Whosssssssssssai!!!!!!
Yes there are, which was how we got to where we are now.

Now to your point, it would indeed seem that the major barrier to gender equality is societal expectations and obligations.

I will give you a classical example. In the organisation, where I work, when you go for maternity leave, you do not get a salary upgrade (which is annual), for that particular year. This implies that your male colleagues would invariably earn more than you over a period of time. You are indirectly been 'punished' for fulfilling your natural role. Now this salary upgrade is for work done in the previous year, when you did not go on maternity leave.

Ekundayo is indeed right, work-place politics is hell, but you have to beat the men at their own game.

Obugi
Sep 8, 2010, 11:23 AM
NAR,

I just like the way you've carried this discussion. Gender equality in Sweden, USA, Saudi
Arabia......no, you want to discuss a non-existent nation. Oya now.


:lol:


Second: Going by what is being said here, Nigerian women have quite a tough time in the work place in Nigeria.

Exactly who is having an easy time in the Nigerian work place? In fact, how many Nigerian university graduates of either sex have jobs that adequately make use of their intellect or qualifications?


So does this mean that the educational attention that the Nigerian government has give the female gender is all a rouse? A waste seeing that the women are constantly discriminated against?

There is no discrimination against women. In Nigeria you get what you deserve or what your family and connections can provide, whether you're a man or woman.


The last arm of this comment is, would it be correct to say that the major obstacles to gender equality in Nigeria are the traditional values that still exist in most Nigerian societies that project a male dominated society?

You're very funny. You mean traditions like the Igbo and Widow gang rape? :lol:
Well, men also have onerous traditions to contend with. I mentioned the FACT that Igbo men are required to walk barefoot to distant villages to announce the death of their mother and you just dismissed it out of hand. I guess you'll only be satisfied when Igbo men are also raped to initiate us as widowers. Pele o. Maybe we should be discussing discrimination against the Igbo in Nigeria sef, dem don suffer taya!

Bros try and see the bigger picture. Nigeria is in a state of nature and in such a state men are naturally better equipped to compete. If you can't stand the heat then please by all means get out of the jungle if you can.

When Negroes muster the wherewithal to rebuild their destroyed collectives, when they get past all the extreme selfishness induced by that destruction, then you will find mechanisms to honestly deal with inequality........that is, if it is possible at all. :rolleyes:

Nigerian men are enjoying indeed! Good roads, 24 hour electricity, good schools....all for men only. Do you know that the universities on strike at present is affecting ONLY WOMEN?

NAR, don't worry sha. Maybe God will answer my prayers and Oyibo will come and recolonize Nigeria and the Black women will get what they're looking for, just like they're getting it in H-america and Y-UUUUK.

Sisi Eko,

In an free market place, you only get paid for what you work.

Unless a woman is impregnated by her boss, she is owed nothing extra for being pregnant.

Those that want to pay people for doing nothing should go form their own companies and institute those "enlightened" practices and let's see how long they'll be willing to pay someone for doing nothing.

Anyway, the point is there's no such thing as "society" in Africa, except for Churches and Mosques of course. Out here it's survival of the fittest.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

City Girl
Sep 8, 2010, 12:20 PM
Sisi Eko,

In an free market place, you only get paid for what you work.

Unless a woman is impregnated by her boss, she is owed nothing extra for being pregnant.

Those that want to pay people for doing nothing should go form their own companies and institute those "enlightened" practices and let's see how long they'll be willing to pay someone for doing nothing.

Anyway, the point is there's no such thing as "society" in Africa, except for Churches and Mosques of course. Out here it's survival of the fittest.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

Obugi

Ofcourse, women should only get paid for the work they have done, and performance based salary review should also be based on your deliverables.

In my earlier post, I stated that the salary review is for the work done the previous year, why should the upgrade which you are getting in the new year be withheld until you come back from maternity leave ( sometimes, you are asked to wait until the next review!!!) ? Ofcourse, you are not being paid for getting pregnant, you are being paid for contributing your quota to the growth of the organisation in the preceeding year.

Now there is another scenario. Aren't you shocked when you hear that men make passes at women in the line of official duty, either as a tool of withholding the deserved promotion or as a bait for getting new business? If the roles were reversed, how many women would make passes at men who have come to solicit sales from them or their male subordinates? It is not impossible, but you will agree that it is a negligible number. Is the woman not being regarded primarily as an object of sexual desires in this case and not someone with whom you should discuss serious business? Is this not tantamount to discrimination on the basis of her gender?

tonsoyo
Sep 8, 2010, 12:55 PM
Whereas I am totally against cultural and social values that tend to keep women down, but I believe there is nothing like gender equality, it is a myth, it simply does not exist! We are not naturally calibrated to be equal.

This has been socially manifested, scientifically proven, biologically impossible and Biblically sanctioned, please do not even mention Koran.

Most of what manifest as discrimination against women have their roots in genetical composition and limitations of the different gender.

I wonder most of the times how my wife is able to cope with my two adorable troubles as I refer to my little kids, these guys will wear me out in two hours, I wonder where she derive the strength to handle their unrelenting energy, then I wonder more that she does not even have the strength to start our lawn mower, talkless of operating it, a task I do with utmost ease.

I am not saying anymore for now, until the expected firework starts.

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 12:57 PM
Obugi

Ofcourse, women should only get paid for the work they have done, and performance based salary review should also be based on your deliverables.

In my earlier post, I stated that the salary review is for the work done the previous year, why should the upgrade which you are getting in the new year be withheld until you come back from maternity leave ( sometimes, you are asked to wait until the next review!!!) ? Ofcourse, you are not being paid for getting pregnant, you are being paid for contributing your quota to the growth of the organisation in the preceeding year.

Now there is another scenario. Aren't you shocked when you hear that men make passes at women in the line of official duty, either as a tool of withholding the deserved promotion or as a bait for getting new business? If the roles were reversed, how many women would make passes at men who have come to solicit sales from them or their male subordinates? It is not impossible, but you will agree that it is a negligible number. Is the woman not being regarded primarily as an object of sexual desires in this case and not someone with whom you should discuss serious business? Is this not tantamount to discrimination on the basis of her gender?

Let's for a moment focus on starting salaries and forget maternity issues.
Is it a hidden fact that females get paid less even when they are better qualified than their male counterparts?
I'm almost certain my male colleagues at the same level earn more than I do but since no one discusses salary at the work place,we just do our work and go home.
That's life
The way I console myself is hoping that my husband earns more than his female colleagues,that would be small compensation for my family.

Obugi
Sep 8, 2010, 02:29 PM
Sisi Eko,


Ofcourse, women should only get paid for the work they have done, and performance based salary review should also be based on your deliverables.

We agree. Thank God!:biggrin:


In my earlier post, I stated that the salary review is for the work done the previous year, why should the upgrade which you are getting in the new year be withheld until you come back from maternity leave ( sometimes, you are asked to wait until the next review!!!) ? Of course, you are not being paid for getting pregnant, you are being paid for contributing your quota to the growth of the organisation in the preceeding year.

Getting pregnant is visible evidence of a woman's priorities. Salary review is not ONLY based on past work, but also on the expected future value of the employee to the organization.

This isn't just me talking, anyone who has run a business knows this. I can make bold to say that future deliverables are even more important than what was done in the past. In the USA that many of you admire so much, many businesses that the law has made subject to feminist blackmail are traded on the stock market. In the stock market, those businesses are valued on their future earnings. Not my opinion, you can check that assertion in any credible business publication.

The only way a pregnant woman can prove her worth to an organization is to offer to quit. If the boss (male or female boss) offers to hire her back with a generous raise, that is evidence that she will make a serious future contribution to the bottom line.

Again, in that USA that so many of you uphold as a paragon of virtue, most successful self made women put their career above family, breeding and other such non-monetary values. I can count Oprah Winfrey and Condeleeza Rice, arguably two of the most powerful Negro women in America. Before you make a demand, try and live by example.


Now there is another scenario. Aren't you shocked when you hear that men make passes at women in the line of official duty, either as a tool of withholding the deserved promotion or as a bait for getting new business?

No, actually I'm jealous that women have something to offer in exchange for economic opportunity. I wish I could offer sex in return for university grades, promotions and business access. Sex is easier work than earning a Ph D, MD or law degree.

It's the women who offer sex for economic goods, even in America. That's part of the reason Black Women are ahead of Black Men in every arena where access is controlled by White Men.......and you know how much power White Men have.

That's why banks, oil companies and other juicy corporations in both Nigeria and America are full of Negro women who don't know jack about their jobs. Bottom Power! And before you cry foul, I didn't say ALL WOMEN.


If the roles were reversed, how many women would make passes at men who have come to solicit sales from them or their male subordinates? It is not impossible, but you will agree that it is a negligible number.

Again, I agree with you. Women would not tend to demand sex before promoting a man. That's the easy part, we all know that. Let's ask the hard questions.

What is it in the nature of man and woman that makes this the case?

But all this na argument. I challenge any woman who wants to improve the working conditions for women in Nigeria to put her money where her mouth is. Go and invest in Nigeria, open a business and employ women and give them the benefits you demand.

I employ a female university graduate in Nigeria and I pay her a salary she'd be hard pressed to get anywhere else. I specifically went to a University and asked for their best students and she accepted my job offer.

I would employ more like her except that I'm in the haulage business and women don't seem to like driving big trucks - another curiosity of female behavior that I'd like you to explain and perhaps help me overcome. It's not an academic question for me. Male employees in Nigeria tend to steal a lot more their female co-workers. My truck drivers who carry chippings and gravel for my customers often stop somewhere and sell part of the load, or take the truck on unauthorized private jobs. I believe female drivers would be much more honest. The lady I hired is my only female employee among 30 men and the second highest paid of them all. She's the company treasurer and financial secretary and not a penny has gone missing so far, so I'd like some help with figuring out how to get honest women to drive big trucks.....all in the cause of Women's Lib of course, nothing to do with money.

Sisi Eko, I live in the real world. Economics and business has been an essential part of advancing the welfare of all humans, male and female. Anything done to upset the natural laws that govern economic behavior will only further retard the economic progress of Nigeria as it is presently constituted. America is already paying the price for an overzealous policy of kowtowing to women's rights. That's a good part of what outsourcing is all about, all those women in China who toil in factories 16 hours a day with no benefits whatsoever will keep getting the jobs because they don't demand maternity leave.

So my outlook is firmly rooted in real life, in naira and dollars. If you disagree, you and those like you should take up the challenge I've thrown your way. Set up your own businesses with your own capital earned with your sweat and let's see how you deal with your female employees. There's no way anyone with capital at risk will advocate the kind of blackmail you're trying to foist on employers in Nigeria. Talk is cheap. With just the single woman I've employed, I've advanced the cause of women far more than 99.999999% of you ever will.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 AM ----------

Lateesha,


Let's for a moment focus on starting salaries and forget maternity issues.
Is it a hidden fact that females get paid less even when they are better qualified than their male counterparts?
I'm almost certain my male colleagues at the same level earn more than I do but since no one discusses salary at the work place,we just do our work and go home.
That's life

Is this the case in female dominated lines of work like nursing?

Do Black Men with similar qualifications earn the same as White Women?


The way I console myself is hoping that my husband earns more than his female colleagues,that would be small compensation for my family.


Very interesting confirmation of what common sense tells us will be the case. All men are evil, except for your relatives.

It reminds me of that ugly poet that used to frequent NVS banging her feminist drum about how ALL Nigerian men are useless, misogynist, unfair, uncouth and so on.........except for her father, brothers and even her cousins and nephews. No joke, she specifically exempted all those her relatives.

The defeat of the Negro in competition for dominance has led to the same thing that happens on a sinking ship. When you know the ship can't be saved, its every one for themselves.

All the hue and cry from Black Women about oppression is simply a craving for dominance and revenge on Black Men- instigated and enabled by Caucasian domination.

What's that thing Yoruba people say? If the wall didn't crack, the lizard wouldn't have entered it. :lol:

Black Man, you're on your own - Steve Biko.....thanks to Eja for that one.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

City Girl
Sep 8, 2010, 03:51 PM
Obugi

You have made some valid points.


Getting pregnant is visible evidence of a woman's priorities. Salary review is not ONLY based on past work, but also on the expected future value of the employee to the organization.

This isn't just me talking, anyone who has run a business knows this. I can make bold to say that future deliverables are even more important than what was done in the past. In the USA that many of you admire so much, many businesses that the law has made subject to feminist blackmail are traded on the stock market. In the stock market, those businesses are valued on their future earnings. Not my opinion, you can check that assertion in any credible business publication.

The only way a pregnant woman can prove her worth to an organization is to offer to quit. If the boss (male or female boss) offers to hire her back with a generous raise, that is evidence that she will make a serious future contribution to the bottom line.

Agreed, salary review is also based on the future value of the employee. How has the employer determined that the male colleague will perform better than the female in the future (say, the following year)? Is it because the female employee will be expected to close an hour earlier for a period of three months after child delivery? Is this enough reason to withhold the salary review until the next apparaisal period?

Perhaps, effectively, the female employee is being asked to choose between her job and her family. What if she is the major income earner, the sole income earner or the family needs both incomes to survive, is this a fair choice? Would it not appear that she is being 'punished' for fulfilling one of her many roles. I believe all staff should be treated according to the value they add to the bottomline. As a staff, you are either helping your employer manage his costs or helping him/her increase the revenue base.


With just the single woman I've employed, I've advanced the cause of women far more than 99.999999% of you ever will.

This is a rather strong one, the fact that some people are in paid employment does not mean that they do not aspire to be self-employed, to now say that you have advanced the cause of women more than 99.9% of us ever will is a bit befuddling. You really can not be so sure, can you?

papadonkee
Sep 8, 2010, 03:55 PM
Whereas I am totally against cultural and social values that tend to keep women down, there is nothing like gender equality: We are not naturally calibrated to be equal.


Chei! Olololo! Embelembe!!

:eek:

Tonsoyo: mind reader :p

GOODLUCK!!! (Please ignore the gun being pointed at my head, and the paycheck in my pocket)

Austin
Sep 8, 2010, 03:58 PM
Obugi,
With your permission, I want to save the following and use it in my day-to-day talks,
Destiny is a mother****a and Fate is a bitch.
I hope it is not patented!?! Anyway, I am a man and we men will always be fair to ourselves innit.

Jokes apart, I must say that navigating this murky waters of gender equality debate requires a great deal of intelligence, deep insight and serious empathy. My feeling is, you never truly understand how it feels, unless you are a woman - or put yourself in the position of the woman.
Its just like many other issues such as being short, being black, being disabled or being a foreigner among other such issues.

Yeah, it can be quite true that "Destiny is a mother****a and Fate is a bitch." But societies must also be doing its part to even the ground and promote equal opportunities for all. And this is what I think the subject of gender eqality bothers around. Now, I am not saying that I, or anybody I have met quite know what the subject is all about o. But again, I guess that the way I put it is one of the many ways one can look at the issue.

If that be the case, then the question is whether Nigeria has mechanisms in place to assure that the ground is level for men and women and others in between, such that they could be whatever they want to be and achieve whatever they set their minds to achieve. And to this I will say that bye and large Nigeria has gone very far in this regard. I would say that women can actually be anything they want to be in Nigeria without as much more fuss than their male counterpart.

And that like N.A.R puts it at the start, I will like to concur that the main obstacles that may be standing in the way of women in Nigeria - just like in many other places in the world - is the very limitations placed on them by their own gender and societal expectation. now, how these two limitations can be overcome I cannot see, because when looked at critically, these are two areas that are very difficult to touch because of their far-rooted and fundamental natures.

I mean what society does not expect its women to be good/successful wives, in-laws, sisters, aunts, mothers, grand and great grand mothers et cetera? And how many women are ready to forgo these roles in order to pursue happiness by way of gender equality? And where the woman is ready to make the sacrifice, how many actually have the potential, in terms of mental and/or physical abilities to make such choice?

In essense, all the menfolk have to do is to either talk or not talk all the politically correct things about gender equality, while remaining certain beyond reasonable doubts in their minds that if so goaded and left alone, it is just a matter before the womenfolk will self-destruct. Painful as it emphatically is, we see every day how women make the painful decision to forgo their careers in order to be able to perform the other equally more rewarding roles. And one may perhaps want to ask, well, isn't that exactly why men are created and societies have naturally responded by treating them a bit fairer. But then, we may want to contest what is meant by the term "fairer" which again brings us back to the same subject of gender equality. But that is if we agree about this being the issue - as it is just the way I see it.

Thank you.

Obugi
Sep 8, 2010, 04:13 PM
Sisi Eko,

I wrote:


With just the single woman I've employed, I've advanced the cause of women far more than 99.999999% of you ever will.

Sisi Eko replies:


This is a rather strong one, the fact that some people are in paid employment does not mean that they do not aspire to be self-employed, to noy say that you have advanced the cause of women more than 99.9% of us ever will is a bit befuddling. You really can not be so sure, can you?

I'm not claiming to have done much for women, I'm am claiming that the minuscle effort I've made is better than those who've done NOTHING but keep threatening to take my money and capital because I don't provide women preferential treatment in employment.

Aspirations don't count. Anyone who is serious as you are about advancing the welfare of women shouldn't find it hard to transform that passion to concrete actions in Nigeria.

Luckily, I can tell you from experience that Nigeria is a place where it's easy to start a business, even easier than the vaunted USA and perhaps even UK. It's a largely unregulated market where you can just move in, register your company and start. So it shouldn't be too hard for an educated woman to do what I've done. God knows it will be easier for you to get contracts than it has been for me.

When you actually get to the doing, you will find what I've found. What I hear from you, Valteena and others who've taken up this feminist position in the past.....what I hear from you is a demand for unearned compensation. Until you start creating jobs or giving away your own money in a way that affects your livelihood, I cannot assign you any points for either credibility or sincerity.

Failing that, please contact me via PM with the names of unemployed Nigerian women who want to learn to drive 40 foot Mack trucks and are willing to relocate to Aba if they're not already there. This is a serious offer. I have two trucks that I just bought in the USA that will arrive Nigeria in early October. I've been looking in vain, maybe you'd know how a better approach............and please don't ask me to give them free money. They have Jesus for that, let them go to Church.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

Ajibs
Sep 8, 2010, 04:15 PM
This clip is courtesy of Madam Dewdrops... :D

But let me say I place it here with caution and also not to just derail the topic, BUT to see how this possibly relates to gender equality. How? It may be a stretch but wait. We had the topic a while back about topless women dancing in Nigeria. I have been wanting to start another related thread on why it appears that most African traditional dances are so seriously sexual in nature, anyhow I digress.

Now look at this video below, these women appear quite proud to demonstrate their deft ikebeshakologistic capabilities. Now the SERIOUS question I have here is, do a large cross section of our society, in Nigeria / Africa basically see women in this light despite their achievements in other endeavors / professions or should I say males, and IF the women accept this primary role objectivity, how does this factor into the larger picture of the woman in Nigeria?

Should such dances be seen as a deft dancing skill ONLY and not as an invitation for sexual activities? I say it appears to be a thin line.

Again as this relates to this topic, think of how many "owambe" parties you attended in Nigeria and when it came to that time when all the "womenfolk" (of a certain age lets be specific) take to the dance floor and display their Ikebe power does this affect how the men then view the same women tomorrow when they get back to the office?

I will end my saying and admitting this. I am not sure I have adequately captured the connection of the video below and the discussion or argument of gender equality in Nigeria. What I do know and believe is that videos like what I have here do somehow contribute to the issue. If I have not made the right connection, anyone should go ahead and make it, or dispel the fact there there is a connection.

Do that after you watch, enjoy and coolu down!!! :D

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6X4w2pIPIW4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6X4w2pIPIW4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Madam D, nah you cause dis wahala!

In addition:
Take a close look at the video posted above, you see this is some kind of village celebration. You see the kids sitting down and watching, and of course they are learning, both male and female are absorbing all this in. Also so, is it possible, suppose one of these women worked in an office downtown, would she walk into the office tomorrow morning and issue work orders to the some of the men that were in the crowd taking pictures and would they take the orders issued ??? Or is my imagination running away with me on the possibility of this happening in the real world?

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 04:19 PM
N.A.R
I am not watching your sinful clips
You started this thread well and now you have veered off into an avenue that the menfolk would get a kick out off
It should have been in Man-talk then
titled

"African women and their ikebeliciousness...discuss"

chai this men eh
all of una na the same

you no wan derail the thread but you carried women's ikebe put inside
N.A.R speak the truth and shame the devil
we won't condemn you


Again as this relates to this topic, think of how many "owambe" parties you attended in Nigeria and when it came to that time when all the "womenfolk" (of a certain age lest be specific) take to the dance floor and display their Ikebe power does this affect how the men then view the same women tomorrow when they get back to the office?

I will end my saying and admitting this. I am not sure I have adequately captured the connection of the video below and the discussion or argument of gender equality in Nigeria. What I do know and believe is that videos like what I have here do somehow contribute to the issue

Indeed!
Intellectual discussion
BA Cantab, MSc. Toronto
I bet you also do your taxes watching Kim Kardashian in a swim suit
lol

Obugi
Sep 8, 2010, 04:27 PM
Austin,

It takes some keen insight and a bit of fairness to get at the undertone of my comments.


But societies must also be doing its part to even the ground and promote equal opportunities for all. And this is what I think the subject of gender eqality bothers around. Now, I am not saying that I, or anybody I have met quite know what the subject is all about o. But again, I guess that the way I put it is one of the many ways one can look at the issue.

If that be the case, then the question is whether Nigeria has mechanisms in place to assure that the ground is level for men and women and others in between, such that they could be whatever they want to be and achieve whatever they set their minds to achieve. And to this I will say that bye and large Nigeria has gone very far in this regard. I would say that women can actually be anything they want to be in Nigeria without as much more fuss than their male counterpart.

This is what I've been trying to say.

Life expectancy for men in Nigeria is like 10yrs less than that of women. What greater level of oppression can exist than a denial of life? Why aren't we hearing calls for an all out effort to equalize life expectancy?

Like you've said, the Nigerian State we have has no mechanisms for meeting ANYONES aspirations. If feminists want equality, let us first address the issues on which an egalitarian society can be built.

Hardwork, not springing from desperation but innovation, big dreams and a desire to produce benefits for the society.

Let's liberate our country from the domination of a colonial economic system. Anyone doing business in Nigeria will find out as I have that our economy is completely owned by foreign corporations. Even companies you think are Nigerian are only nominally so....in any industry you can think of.

Will our women join us in this great struggle for liberation, after which we can talk about the problems that afflict us as individuals or groups? If we don't want to build a collective on our own merits, then hey.....it's every person do your own thing.

Absent a new Nigeria where each ethnicity is free, anyone asking me for anything based on the laws or sentiment for Nigeria or "Nigerians" as we have it now is asking for death. You'll either have to kill me or I'll kill you, and God knows life is cheap here. On what basis exactly is a Negro woman or any Negro for that matter asking that I extend her charity? That we're Nigerians? What country is that, the one Lugard drew on a map? Negro solidarity? A common religious affinity? Seriously, exactly what is the basis?

Y'all can keep that crap in America and the West where there's a collective with a common basis for existence. Out here is the jungle and the White Man made it so.

Feminists please leave us alone to do our work. Go get yours.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

Ajibs
Sep 8, 2010, 04:32 PM
N.A.R
I am not watching your sinful clips
You started this thread well and now you have veered off into an avenue that the menfolk would get a kick out off
It should have been in Man-talk then
titled

"African women and their ikebeliciousness...discuss"

chai this men eh
all of una na the same

you no wan derail the thread but you carried women's ikebe put inside
N.A.R speak the truth and shame the devil
we won't condemn you

First Lady,
As I noted above, there is a serious connection, and not just in Nigeria but world wide. When the question of gender equality is brought up, you cannot disconnect sexuality from gender equality. Because there is a question, are women looked down upon because they are considered the "weaker" sex or are they looked down upon because they are more or less believed by men to be best suited and equipped to have sex, make babies and be mothers.

I would argue that in more traditional societies like Nigeria, the prevailing thought is that women are for sex, baby making and motherhood, THIS IS WHY the clip applies. If the Nigerian / African tradition was to showcase the brains of the African / Nigerian woman, would the traditional dance be centered on her Ikebe? Just like the male dances are centered on showcasing the brute strength of the male like the case of the Fulani flogging ceremonial dances.

So even though we find women in the boardroom today, if that clip above what most men picture in their minds that the women should be doing OR have they really accepted them and equals.

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 04:40 PM
First Lady,
As I noted above, there is a serious connection, and not just in Nigeria but world wide. When the question of gender equality is brought up, you cannot disconnect sexuality from gender equality. Because there is a question, are women looked down upon because they are considered the "weaker" sex or are they looked down upon because they are more or less believed by men to be best suited and equipped to have sex, make babies and be mothers.

I would argue that in more traditional societies like Nigeria, the prevailing thought is that women are for sex, baby making and motherhood, THIS IS WHY the clip applies. If the Nigerian / African tradition was to showcase the brains of the African / Nigerian woman, would the traditional dance be centered on her Ikebe? Just like the male dances are centered on showcasing the brute strength of the male like the case of the Fulani flogging ceremonial dances.

So even though we find women in the boardroom today, if that clip above what most men picture in their minds that the women should be doing OR have they really accepted them and equals.

The first time I joined a Nigerian forum,I didn't make my gender known and was always referred to as a guy.
The day some people found out I was female,some men I had argued with were so mad and from that day on,they would punctuate their words and make references to me being female and asking me to go and cook,take care of kids etc.
That is the mindset the women here are referring to.

Back to your Ikebe clip
let me watch it now since you insist

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 04:41 PM
First Lady,
As I noted above, there is a serious connection, and not just in Nigeria but world wide. When the question of gender equality is brought up, you cannot disconnect sexuality from gender equality. Because there is a question, are women looked down upon because they are considered the "weaker" sex or are they looked down upon because they are more or less believed by men to be best suited and equipped to have sex, make babies and be mothers.

I would argue that in more traditional societies like Nigeria, the prevailing thought is that women are for sex, baby making and motherhood, THIS IS WHY the clip applies. If the Nigerian / African tradition was to showcase the brains of the African / Nigerian woman, would the traditional dance be centered on her Ikebe? Just like the male dances are centered on showcasing the brute strength of the male like the case of the Fulani flogging ceremonial dances.

So even though we find women in the boardroom today, if that clip above what most men picture in their minds that the women should be doing OR have they really accepted them and equals.

The first time I joined a Nigerian forum,I didn't make my gender known and was always referred to as a guy.
The day some people found out I was female,some men I had argued with were so mad and from that day on,they would punctuate their words and make references to me being female and asking me to go and cook,take care of kids etc.
That is the mindset the women here are referring to.

Back to your Ikebe clip
let me watch it now since you insist

Dewdrops
Sep 8, 2010, 05:01 PM
I should add a general note here as regards this discussion. Two things that I would like to be considered especially by the strong women in the discussion:

First: When comparing to other countries, how does gender equality in Nigeria match up with other countries. Going from extreme states like Saudi Arabia to more liberal states like some European countries, I believe like Germany and Netherlands. I bring this up as it is common knowledge that women are discriminated against in most societies in the world, BUT at varying levels, some despicable and other more acceptable. Now the second part of this question / discussion is where should Nigeria be as regards this, and is there a model country out there to emulate or give as an example of where gender equality exists.

Second: Going by what is being said here, Nigerian women have quite a tough time in the work place in Nigeria. So does this mean that the educational attention that the Nigerian government has give the female gender is all a rouse? A waste seeing that the women are constantly discriminated against? Is the plan to educate the womenfolk for the kitchen and bedroom only? The last arm of this comment is, would it be correct to say that the major obstacles to gender equality in Nigeria are the traditional values that still exist in most Nigerian societies that project a male dominated society?

To answer your questions.

1. Nigeria fares worse than most countries with gender equality.
How many countries have you seen with this kind of video on youtube?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEmpfs_ORpE


By the way......I am curious as to why you casually glossed over Valteena's posts with credible statistics as to proving how Nigeria measures up with this subject matter in soco-economic aspects of the Nigerian society. We will spare everyone the headache and avoid the 'religious/traditional' angles all together. I think Saudi Arabia fares better in all regards than Nigeria. I will even prefer Yemen. For there is nothing worse than being educated illiterates. Or should I say..."EFs"......educated fools!

2. I will not agree that this gender equality fiction and myth in Nigeria is as a result of traditional or cultural norms......but sheer sadism and wickedness. The inate need for the African man to see the African woman as less than himself and treats them accordingly. When last did a woman get appreciated for her "brain size or power" in Africa????? Or Nigeria for that matter???

The main question you should ask yourself is: Does the Nigerian society value women on any level? The simple answer is NO! Except as a breeding machine or a domestic hand.


http://www.overpopulation.org/dignity.html



Gender Equality

Equality, Equity and The Empowerment of Women

(prepared by the Communications Consortium)

Despite many international agreements affirming women's human rights, girls and women are still much more likely than men to be poor, malnourished and illiterate, and to have less access than men to medical care, property ownership, credit, traming and employment. They are far less likely than men to be politically active and far more likely to be victims of domestic violence.

Where women are poor, uneducated and have little participation in the wider society, family size tends to be large and the population growth rate high. Population and development programs are more effective when they center on improving the education, rights and status of women.


Childbearing has been women's chief source of security and status for centuries. This is still the case, especially where women are denied education, reproductive health care, secure livelihoods and full equal rights. Successful population and development programs must offer women options for their lives beyond childbearing.

Women in developing nations are usually in charge of securing water, food and fuel and of overseeing family health and diet. Therefore they tend to put into immediate practice whatever they learn about nutrition, preserving the environment and natural resources, and improving sanitation and health care.

Of the 960 million illiterate adults in the world, two thirds are female. Higher levels of women's education are strongly associated with both lower infant mortality and lower fertility In poor countries, every additional year of a woman's schooling is associated with a 5 to 10% decline in child deaths. 1

Children born to mothers below age 18 are 1.5 times more likely to die before age 5 than those born to mothers age 20 - 34. Yet three of every four teenage girls in Africa are mothers, and 40 percent of births there are to women under 17. 2

Programs that offer girls alternative life choices can help them stay in school and, consequently, delay childbearing. This lengthens the time span between generations. Such women tend also to have fewer children - three or four rather than six or more. 3

Laws and customs often deny women the right to own land, inherit property establish credit, receive training or move up in their field of work. Laws against domestic violence are often not enforced on behalf of women. Achieving gender equality in these areas will require the support of men who exercise most of the power in these spheres of life.

The involvement of men is critical to women's rights and to population policy success. In Cameroon, Burkina Faso, Niger and Senegal, for example, men want between two and four more children than their wives do; in Cameroon, Mali and Senegal, fewer than half of men approve of family planning. Birthrates in those West African nations are higher than in most of East Africa, where with the exception of Tanzania, more than 90% of both men and women favor family planning. 4

The roles that men and women play in society are not biologically determined - they are socially determined. Often justified as required by culture or religion, they still vary widely by locality and change constantly; they are not immutable. Slavery, torture, and racial and ethnic prejudice are also centuries-old practices now rightly condemned worldwide when they involve people of color, political dissidents, Jews or other ethnic groups. Violations of women's human rights must receive the same international censure.

Because roles are deeply embedded social practices, programs are needed that work with young people to orient them toward gender equality
The ICPD Programme of Action commits nations to:


Close the gender gap in education and political life; eliminate illiteracy and legal political and social barriers to women; and ensure equal representation of women in aid programs.

Combat violence against women and girls, including sexual violence.

Ratify all agreements that further women's rights.

Design programs for the aging that address the special needs of elderly women.

Urge employers to help workers manage their family and work responsibilities through flexible hours, parental leave, daycare facilities and so on.

Involve men in family planning and responsibilities and in the prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.

Ensure that children receive appropriate financial support by enforcing child support laws, among other things.

Enforce laws on minimum age of consent and marriage.

Eliminate female genital mutilation.

Provide adolescents not only with information and services, but also education and life choices.

Which day Nigeria go do all disi wan???
Lai lai!

Ajibs
Sep 8, 2010, 05:05 PM
First lady,
Let me perhaps expand on the issue with the clip. It is well known in the US that the company Christmas party is an event to look forward to as many employees relax and let loose, it is not uncommon to see your boss (male) getting a bit drunk or tipsy and engaging in behavior usually no attributed to his person. BUT!!! In most cases when you see him in the office on Monday morning, it is business as usual, even if with a few background smiles and chuckles right?

Connect that picture above to the "Owmabe" example I gave, do / can male employees, (and even the female ones also) see their female boss, shake her ikebe like is shown in that clip, or not even as much and still take her very seriously on Monday morning? Would that female boss, still have the respect of her staff or would they think her to be "loose" as a result of the Owambe party display?

Dewdrops
Sep 8, 2010, 05:22 PM
This clip is courtesy of Madam Dewdrops... :D

But let me say I place it here with caution and also not to just derail the topic, BUT to see how this possibly relates to gender equality. How? It may be a stretch but wait. We had the topic a while back about topless women dancing in Nigeria. I have been wanting to start another related thread on why it appears that most African traditional dances are so seriously sexual in nature, anyhow I digress.

Now look at this video below, these women appear quite proud to demonstrate their deft ikebeshakologistic capabilities. Now the SERIOUS question I have here is, do a large cross section of our society, in Nigeria / Africa basically see women in this light despite their achievements in other endeavors / professions or should I say males, and IF the women accept this primary role objectivity, how does this factor into the larger picture of the woman in Nigeria?

Should such dances be seen as a deft dancing skill ONLY and not as an invitation for sexual activities? I say it appears to be a thin line.

Again as this relates to this topic, think of how many "owambe" parties you attended in Nigeria and when it came to that time when all the "womenfolk" (of a certain age lets be specific) take to the dance floor and display their Ikebe power does this affect how the men then view the same women tomorrow when they get back to the office?

I will end my saying and admitting this. I am not sure I have adequately captured the connection of the video below and the discussion or argument of gender equality in Nigeria. What I do know and believe is that videos like what I have here do somehow contribute to the issue. If I have not made the right connection, anyone should go ahead and make it, or dispel the fact there there is a connection.

Do that after you watch, enjoy and coolu down!!! :D

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6X4w2pIPIW4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6X4w2pIPIW4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Madam D, nah you cause dis wahala!

In addition:
Take a close look at the video posted above, you see this is some kind of village celebration. You see the kids sitting down and watching, and of course they are learning, both male and female are absorbing all this in. Also so, is it possible, suppose one of these women worked in an office downtown, would she walk into the office tomorrow morning and issue work orders to the some of the men that were in the crowd taking pictures and would they take the orders issued ??? Or is my imagination running away with me on the possibility of this happening in the real world?

Thanks for this clip....any 'booty-shaking' bounty will make my day any day.:lol:
But this clip just shows you the state of what the value of a 'black' woman is.
Even the ones that have migrated to foreign countries see 'black' women as sex objects only.
In the African-American culture....is it not the same thing?

Women are fashioned by the society in which they live in......and the men make it so for the most part.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AzDWw40oDs


http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=yoEnHC8ddVw&feature=related

See how the men are dressed compared to the women?
All men want is for the women to be dressing like 'oochies' showing off their 'wally-wallies' ke!
E finish o!

The conclusion that can be drawn here is that women are to blame if not more for maintaining this status quo of the inability to strive towards gender equality.


If not tell me why the men should be allowed to get away with it?

You nor see as I dey fight gender inequality for ENU-VEE-ESH???? Tee hee hee hee hee
The nonsense people like Auspicious will get away with...of course Lone*Star will get hanged for.
Say who die??? Ova my dead body I say! :shake:
Is it not the same thing on this NVS???
Una wan turn me to 'Uzoma Okeke' of NVS ni???
Ova my dead body I say.
Lai-lai.....it kannot 'appen!
Let the useless men and the dense women who care to champion such causes around here continue in the typical "Nigerian fashion" ke.
This woman called "Lone*Star" will never play that kind of "shiiit"!
Ova my dead bodi I say!
That will NEVER happen....inside or outside NVS! Not in Nigeria or anywhere in this world for that marra!
he he he

E-wo? If only 15 women were like me in Nigeria eh kwa......There will be nothing like gender inequality.....infact, the men will be the victims walahi-talahi! :cool:

Food....dem nor go see
Coochi.....dem nor go smell....not to mention touch(all go turn gay by force)
Marriage kpa kpa......no way
Pickin sef I nor go born....instant sterilization(make dem go impregnate malu, conceive heir apparent for h-inside bush)

Shiooooooooooooor!!!!

But will the women stick together? For whia.
MOST will perpetrate the concept of gender inequality with all their desperate needs to be loved and shagged.....BY THE SAME ABUSIVE MEN OOOOH! They are ready to kill their fellow women for for any prize.....name it!
MOST will subject their daughters to the same ongoing chains of social and economic bondage all to answer MRS.....10th wife.
MOST will fail to educate the daughters about their self-worth.....which should always begin and end in a man's shadow of course. See these ones in Kenya? Trooping to church to find husbands with unshaven armpits and no leaving school certificates attached to their names???



http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/57038-men-left-town.html


http://www.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/1003970/medRes/191396/-/maxw/600/-/10y9i4k/-/DNMARRIED0309XCZ.jpg

You don see whia women with correct brain go leave marriageble chance of 1:1 ratio of man to woman h-enter for one kind "Boko Haram" church of 500 women to 1 man ratio??? Is that not arrant stupidity????LOL
How do these women hope to be treated by such menfolk in such a dismal disadvantage while hoping in God???

Tufiakwa!

Ajibs
Sep 8, 2010, 05:29 PM
To answer your questions.

1. Nigeria fares worse than most countries with gender equality.
How many countries have you seen with this kind of video on youtube?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEmpfs_ORpE


By the way......I am curious as to why you casually glossed over Valteena's posts with credible statistics as to proving how Nigeria measuresw up with this subject matter in soco-economic aspects of the Nigerian society. We will spare everyone the headache and avoid the 'religious/traditional' angles all together. I think Saudi Arabia fares better in all regards than Nigeria. I will even prefer Yemen. For there is nothing worse than being educated illiterates. Or should I say..."EFs"......educated fools!

Madam D,
Nope, I am still reading and catching up. At the same time, I added some new thoughts / opinions / issues to consider. I will make some responses to both Sisi Eko, Valteena and others including Obugi. If I am not mistaken, from my quick perusal of the discussion thus far, Obugi seems to be taking a stance that from the onset I am wrong to assume that gender equality can even exist. I am learning quite a bit form you ladies on this issue. Sisi Eko, notes that though there is no equality as of yet, women are making substantial progress in Nigeria. You counter that these are few and far between, by and large women are still very much getting the short end of the stick. I noted Ekundayo's submission that her ideas are stolen by male superiors at work. Quite despicable, but i should add that superiors often steal ideas from ALL subordinates, male and female alike. I will certainly read all and respond.

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 05:29 PM
First lady,
Let me perhaps expand on the issue with the clip. It is well known in the US that the company Christmas party is an event to look forward to as many employees relax and let loose, it is not uncommon to see your boss (male) getting a bit drunk or tipsy and engaging in behavior usually no attributed to his person. BUT!!! In most cases when you see him in the office on Monday morning, it is business as usual, even if with a few background smiles and chuckles right?

Connect that picture above to the "Owmabe" example I gave, do / can male employees, (and even the female ones also) see their female boss, shake her ikebe like is shown in that clip, or not even as much and still take her very seriously on Monday morning? Would that female boss, still have the respect of her staff or would they think her to be "loose" as a result of the Owambe party display?

I doubt if any woman in any respectable position would be shaking her ikebe like that.
I find that disgusting and in bad taste

Ajibs
Sep 8, 2010, 05:42 PM
To answer your questions.

1. Nigeria fares worse than most countries with gender equality.
How many countries have you seen with this kind of video on youtube?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEmpfs_ORpE


By the way......I am curious as to why you casually glossed over Valteena's posts with credible statistics as to proving how Nigeria measures up with this subject matter in soco-economic aspects of the Nigerian society. We will spare everyone the headache and avoid the 'religious/traditional' angles all together. I think Saudi Arabia fares better in all regards than Nigeria. I will even prefer Yemen. For there is nothing worse than being educated illiterates. Or should I say..."EFs"......educated fools!

2. I will not agree that this gender equality fiction and myth in Nigeria is as a result of traditional or cultural norms......but sheer sadism and wickedness. The inate need for the African man to see the African woman as less than himself and treats them accordingly. When last did a woman get appreciated for her "brain size or power" in Africa????? Or Nigeria for that matter???

The main question you should ask yourself is: Does the Nigerian society value women on any level? The simple answer is NO! Except as a breeding machine or a domestic hand.

Madam D,
I just saw the clip again of that poor girl beaten by the Naval rantings of whatever the hell the call them. Quickly, that is not necessarily the best example, why, simply put, those guys are BRUTAL to both male and female, they are simply uncivilized power drunk morons. The fact is, had that been a man, he might very well have been SHOT by those brutes. Or he would CERTAINLY have been bundled into their vehicle and taken to God knows where to do God knows what to him. When it comes to the cops / armed forces, its just brutality against all.

First Lady,
Note I qualified my example noting that female corporate boss would not be as "extreme" as that clip shows. But do you see my point that by and large how the Nigerian / African traditional society objectifies women?

I will be back with more responses!

Dewdrops
Sep 8, 2010, 06:23 PM
Madam D,
Nope, I am still reading and catching up. At the same time, I added some new thoughts / opinions / issues to consider. I will make some responses to both Sisi Eko, Valteena and others including Obugi. If I am not mistaken, from my quick perusal of the discussion thus far, Obugi seems to be taking a stance that from the onset I am wrong to assume that gender equality can even exist. I am learning quite a bit form you ladies on this issue. Sisi Eko, notes that though there is no equality as of yet, women are making substantial progress in Nigeria. You counter that these are few and far between, by and large women are still very much getting the short end of the stick. I noted Ekundayo's submission that her ideas are stolen by male superiors at work. Quite despicable, but i should add that superiors often steal ideas from ALL subordinates, male and female alike. I will certainly read all and respond.

Thanks.
In my humble opinion.....anything past Valteena's presentations on this thread constitutes begging the question.
We have answered the questions you posed here and I don't think there is much debate as to the fiction and myth of gender equality in Nigeria. If we are talking about solutions...then, this thread can progress further.

Otherwise, we are flogging a dead horse here. :rose:

Austin
Sep 8, 2010, 06:23 PM
N.A.R,
If there is any connection between your Ikebe video and the issue of gender equality, then such connection will be on the fringes. And that is a polite way of saying they do not correlate at all - except by the a stretch of imagination.

As said earlier, the issue of gender equality may relate to many things, but in general, it is about legal and institutional frameworks as well as attitude in place to ensure that women get equal treatment - mostly in formalised settings - as men.

Hence in many cases, gender equality is ussually about access - first and foremost. Access to education, access to jobs and to power and positions. Access to legal recourses and fair judgement in the law courts among other things. As such, when we talked about gender equality, we are actually talking about whether the same access available to men is also available to women (and hermaphrodites) and vice versa? For example we may also be asking, whether women can aspire to the same position and status as men in a society and what mechanisms are in place to facilitate and assure that such can actually happen in reality and not on paper.

Like every other issue however, some people have stretched and are still stretching the issue to include the home front. In which case they ask whether the male and female in relationships are getting the same treatment or sharing the household tasks equally. But as we know, this can be a complex issue, as in many cases, family affairs are usually left to the families to decide and one arrangement cannot be expected to fit all the families in a land.

On the other hand however, gender equality is not the same as respect, which is what I guess your video and the one after it tend to address the more. And the issue of respect is just as, if not much more complex than that of equality. For we can ask, what is respect? Who determines what constitute respect and how can we compare respect between two mutually distinctive entities

in addition, people all over the world recognise that we all as people only do play roles in our lives. And therefore, we cannot necessarily project one role far beyond the theatre where such role-play was warranted. Hence, you cannot go on and disrespect your boss because she danced funny at a party yesterday - and many, even in Nigeria do not do that.

But that is even besides the point that there are not many places where people in reality actually dance the way people danced in that video of yours. That video was produced for entertainment purpose and it served its role very well. Now is that the actual way people actually dance at formal or semi-formal occassions, me think no!

One overriding question that we may want to ask, and which I think you are trying to ask, albeit indirectly is perhaps concerning the attitude of Nigerians to gender equality. That is, do Nigerian men and women alike generally see themselves as equal and worthy competitors in the scheme of things? And the response I can give to this is that the answer will be mixed.

Mixed in the sense that most men have probably not accepted women as their equal to them in the competition for survival on the Nigerian playing field. But I will quickly add that this is only natural. As it is natural for each individual to think himselve/herself better than the other. But you will also find that the same man who perhaps treated another woman roughshod is actually full of respect and adoration for his mother, aunts and wife. And he is equally spending a fortune on the education of his children who are girls. He may be like my father who will prostrate (on all fours, with chest touching the ground) for his elder sisters, only to turn around and exclude the sisters from important discussions about the family, because he was THE MAN - the FATHER figure of the house. But then, that is where culture and tradition comes in. But then how do you interpret this to the (biased) guy from the U.N who is looking for hard data and seems to have found a fitting one?

On this basis I want to say that avenue to gender equality exists to a very high degree in Nigeria, although the attitude of Nigerians (all of them) with regards to the issue of gender equality is still lagging behind.
Obugi has admitted these much and provided some of the hard reasons why. And even in the so-called civilised societies that have gone far ahead of Nigeria, in terms of attitude, one may be tempted to ask since when?
There is room for improvement everywhere. and this much should be obvious.
This being my tukroner.
Thanx

Dewdrops
Sep 8, 2010, 06:27 PM
Madam D,
I just saw the clip again of that poor girl beaten by the Naval rantings of whatever the hell the call them. Quickly, that is not necessarily the best example, why, simply put, those guys are BRUTAL to both male and female, they are simply uncivilized power drunk morons. The fact is, had that been a man, he might very well have been SHOT by those brutes. Or he would CERTAINLY have been bundled into their vehicle and taken to God knows where to do God knows what to him. When it comes to the cops / armed forces, its just brutality against all.



I will be back with more responses!

Me sef dey wait o!
Thanks for the interesting topic. :rose:

tonsoyo
Sep 8, 2010, 06:46 PM
I doubt if any woman in any respectable position would be shaking her ikebe like that.
I find that disgusting and in bad taste

Hen ehn? what about Beyonce? or is it because those ones were shaking their Ikebe under the village mango trees?

Why is it that women are always in contest to see who can expose the most parts of her body at Oscar and Emmy, while the men will simply dress up?

It is all in the nature of the gender. Generally women wants to be appreciated and appear sexy that is not compartible with stern appearance that goes with leadership in most cases. The point NAR is trying to make.

Male and Female have been genetically coded in different ways to respond to situations and aspirations in different ways.

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 07:08 PM
Hen ehn? what about Beyonce? or is it because those ones were shaking their Ikebe under the village mango trees?

Why is it that women are always in contest to see who can expose the most parts of her body at Oscar and Emmy, while the men will simply dress up?

It is all in the nature of the gender. Generally women wants to be appreciated and appear sexy that is not compartible with stern appearance that goes with leadership in most cases. The point NAR is trying to make.

Male and Female have been genetically coded in different ways to respond to situations and aspirations in different ways.

Can we describe Beyonce as a woman in a respectable postion ?
There's no difference between her and those women she just gets paid for shaking hers even when they are not even as bubbly as those African women under the mango tree.

tonsoyo
Sep 8, 2010, 07:30 PM
Can we describe Beyonce as a woman in a respectable postion ?
There's no difference between her and those women she just gets paid for shaking hers even when they are not even as bubbly as those African women under the mango tree.

Chei, chei, chei, did you just say that Beyonce is not in respectable position? OK let take Aunty Ngozi and Beyonce to Nigeria, not even in America, put Aunty Ngozi in National Stadium and Beyonce in Tafawa Balewa square (not performing) and see who will draw more respectable crowd.

BTW, what is your defintion of "respectable position"

So Sue Me
Sep 8, 2010, 08:40 PM
There is no equality anywhere in the world for women. Not even in the West. Women are considered equal. But Women themselves do not want to be equal.

Everyday you will hear them lament the pay disparity between men and women, but when they have to choose between the occupations that create wealth and the safe ones that produce no real wealth, they choose the safe jobs.

They could spend months writing hundreds of thousands of lines of computer code to develop a new software, but they do not. They could set up workshops and try to invent products, but they do not. They could take the difficult courses like electronics and mechanical engineering, but they largely avoid these critical fields. Rather they focus on their most important asset, their vaginas to make their way in life.

Everyday they bleet about rape, yet women continually rape men for free drinks, food, mortgage payments, extortionate child support payments that go to supporting them and their boyfriends and not the children, free houses that the man pays for and so on.

Tiger Woods wife who just raped him for 100 million was a common Nanny when he met her. If it wasn't for him, she would have been living in a roach-infested apartment and selling pussy on the side to make ends meet. The Iraq war has cost over four thousand lives only 2 percent of them women yet they form fifty percent of the population.

First-lady
Sep 8, 2010, 08:45 PM
There is no equality anywhere in the world for women. Not even in the West. Women are considered equal. But Women themselves do not want to be equal.

Everyday you will hear them lament the pay disparity between men and women, but when they have to choose between the occupations that create wealth and the safe ones that produce no real wealth, they choose the safe jobs.

They could spend months writing hundreds of thousands of lines of computer code to develop a new software, but they do not. They could set up workshops and try to invent products, but they do not. They could take the difficult courses like electronics and mechanical engineering, but they largely avoid these critical fields. Rather they focus on their most important asset, their vaginas to make their way in life.

Everyday they bleet about rape, yet women continually rape men for free drinks, food, mortgage payments, extortionate child support payments that go to supporting them and their boyfriends and not the children, free houses that the man pays for and so on.

Tiger Woods wife who just raped him for 100 million was a common Nanny when he met her. If it wasn't for him, she would have been living in a roach-infested apartment and selling pussy on the side to make ends meet. The Iraq war has cost over four thousand lives only 2 percent of them women yet they form fifty percent of the population.

***first lady makes a sign of the cross"**

What an angry black male
are you paying child support?
You need to dear,the kids need to be taken care of

papadonkee
Sep 9, 2010, 08:53 AM
Chei, chei, chei, did you just say that Beyonce is not in respectable position? OK let take Aunty Ngozi and Beyonce to Nigeria, not even in America, put Aunty Ngozi in National Stadium and Beyonce in Tafawa Balewa square (not performing) and see who will draw more respectable crowd.

BTW, what is your defintion of "respectable position"

A Catholic priest, trousers around his ankles and robe over his face, getting a demure blow job from a pious nun, maybe? :eek:

GOODLUCK!!!

Women only represent 2% of the deaths recorded in the Iraq War? Hmm, interesting. Maybe their smaller body sizes are more difficult to hit; or they are more cautious and averse to risky rambo-esque manoeuvres; or the 'rebel forces' don't want to waste bullets on low-threat targets (logically low-threat because of the previously mentioned low-risk behaviour); or the women are actually better soldiers (which would explain the low-death percentage, but would make the decision of the insurgents not to shoot them illogical).

Anyway, I digress. Most populations are split down the middle when segregated by gender. And all populations have intrinsic mores that 'appear' to put one group at a disadvantage. Take education, for instance. Gender activists have clearly and accurately identified that the Northern 'girl-child' is usually denied the opportunity to acquire a robust Western-style education because she is more prized as a bride and home maker than as a teacher. This is mirrored, though without the procession of ash-covered wailers, in the Eastern parts of this country where young male children are encouraged to enter the world of commerce, and emerge years later armed with the international business skills they need to "orda kontainer from oversea".

Every demographic grouping, natural or human-made, identifies itself by certain traits, real or imagined (think of the Jews, or Hitler's Super Race, or women :p). These traits include what the group believes are its aspirations, what it can achieve, and the obstacles to the attainment of the group goals.

My argument is that the concept of 'equality' is a flawed and unrealisable one, except within the walls of a maths class, or the hallowed halls of Heaven (wrt the Holy Trinity). There can only be one President, one governor, one Head of Section, and men compete equally as hard against fellow men as they do against their female peers. And in this competition, both sides use whatever tools they have at their disposal. A classic case study was Obama's adroit ability to play both the Black and White card, and Hilary's not-so-successful attempt to contest as 'Bill's wife', and her more successful role as the 'teary-eyed, emotional woman'.

We fight everyday to survive; every Naira that finds its way into your pocket is a Naira that doesn't go into someone else's. And it is this fight that drives society forward, that entrenches truly sustainable progress. I understand the emotional rationale behind calls for Affirmative Action (for Blacks in America) and for similar proposals (35% representation for women in Nigeria), but like zoning, they actually, ultimately, rubbish the pursuit of excellence.

ANY call for equality or equity or...ahem...zoning is a fraudulent one...

Unless you are a Niger-Delta indigene.

Or a political aspirant seeking the Women's Vote

Or an ex-military president with plans to make Nigeria Great! :D

Ajibs
Sep 9, 2010, 05:33 PM
My first reaction on reading this was, man, you must be a long time gone from Nigeria. I've got to agree with DewDrops here...there's no Nigerian man I've met who is EVER going to give you respect, appreciation, praise, and what is rightfully yours in the workplace or outside the workplace. You don't know HOW MANY TIMES my ideas and suggestions at office meetings have been "adopted" by others (men) who magically appear in the next week's minutes with their name linked to said suggestion. I can come up with the most brilliant of ideas, will not be recognized for it, but it will be implemented and some other ass will get the credit for it and any financial rewards linked. Disgusting. Nigerian men are some of the wickedest on the planet. They believe women were only put here to do one thing: serve them and their needs ( no matter your relation ), selfish ill-mannered creatures that they are....

Let me start by responding to this. First as Nigerian man, I certainly take exception to the description up there. I have have women work for me, and I have hired women and I have encouraged, praise and even nominated some for financial rewards for a job well done. Personally, ask my wife make she tell you! :D Now I am operating outside Nigeria, BUT I am still a Nigerian man.

BUT!!! I am not dismissing the statement entirely. But I think that is a far reaching sweeping generalization. ALL Nigerian men cannot be like that, BUT!!! if most women come to this forum and say the same thing, then that would say a mighty lot. I think a very troubling or revealingly part of your statement is the statement above I put in bold, "no matter your relation" is this to say that such discrimination takes place within the family?

---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 PM ----------


Valteena,

There is no society or collective where any two groups or individuals are equal. It's an impossibility. It is not a natural state.

So what I hear is an aggrieved group thirsting for dominance. Fair enough. Nothing wrong with wanting to be boss or ascendant. Even if it means allying with those dedicated to trampling on Africans.

One thing I do know for sure is that a matriarchal/female dominated Nigeria/Africa will be a disaster for African men. We've seen Negro Martriarchy in America and the UK, and it's not a happy experience.

You could say that patriarchy hasn't done much better for Africa and I accept that.

The truth is that neither African men or women can be trusted with dominance over their fellow Africans.

The most dangerous state of existence for a Negro is to have your welfare subject to the conscience of another Negro. The things that held us together have been destroyed and we have "fallen apart".

Faced with such a reality, each of us is on our own. Your life is your life. You are what you are based on your genetic attributes and their utility in the environment in which you live. If you are disadvantaged and can't leave the hostile environment, it is because you don't possess the attributes that will enable you to escape, so you belong where you are. The life story of supermodel Oluchi Nwagba is instructive. Whether fate smiles on you or consigns you to the bottom of the heap, embrace your fate with the knowledge that it's only for a time. 120yrs at the max if you're lucky, then the maggots get you.

People who speak of Nigeria as some sort of hell on earth are those who simply couldn't and can't make it in Nigeria. I too used to think Nigeria was hell on earth. I now know better. If you you're oppressed in Nigeria......or the USA or anywhere else, you're getting just what you deserve. Show me perfection when you find it, that way I won't have to wait for heaven :lol:

Anyone that feels oppressed should please pick up a gun and do something about it. Anything less is hot air.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.

Okay, so new angle here, if I am allowed to summarize, this world is based on the survival of the fittest right? Male or female regardless. But in reference to this statement:
The life story of supermodel Oluchi Nwagba is instructive. Please expand. Are you saying that Oluchi has made the most of her natural features and used her God (or devil or Ifa in your case :D) given beauty to make herself a success or???

---------- Post added at 12:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------


...all men do it
If you're married,your husband probably does the same
You advise him,honey let's do it this way,he does it that way then 2 months later he tells you he has new idea or solution on how it could be done and and he proceeds to tell you the exact same thing you told him 2 months prior.
Men!
Very stubborn creatures

But all these are our examples are pretty mild compared to the main subject matter
The world at large is a male dominated place but thankfully laws are being instituted to protect women in civilized societies of which Nigeria is not one and even if laws were put in place in Nigeria,who would enforce it.


So its ALL men that do not promote gender equality? And Nigeria is particularly bad. Okay point taken!

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------

I think, I should pause for a minute and bring in a defination of what Gender Equality seems to be generally defined as. Relying on Wikipedia I find:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Igualtat_de_sexes.svg/212px-Igualtat_de_sexes.svg.png


Gender equality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_equality)(also known as gender equity, gender egalitarianism, or sexual equality) is the goal of the equality of the genders or the sexes,[1] stemming from a belief in the injustice of myriad forms of gender inequality.
World bodies have defined gender equality as related to human rights, especially women's rights, and economic development.[2][3] UNICEF defines gender equality as "levelling the playing field for girls and women by ensuring that all children have equal opportunity to develop their talents."[4]
The United Nations Population Fund declared gender equality "first and foremost, a human right."[5] "Gender equity" is one of the goals of the United Nations Millennium Project, to end world poverty by 2015; the project claims, "Every single Goal is directly related to women's rights, and societies where women are not afforded equal rights as men can never achieve development in a sustainable manner."[3]

With the definition above, do we agree this defines what Gender Equality is?

As another general comment to both Ekundayo and First lady about work suggestions not being taken and also taken over by male bosses, I will BOLDLY say that is not a problem restricted to gender. MANY bosses suggest idea by subordinates male or female and take credit for that suggestion, yes it has happened to me AS WELL. Now possibly it happens more to females, but I think that is more of an issue of work discrimination than in-equality. Now in-equality IMHO opinion is when a woman does the same job that a man does, as well and gets paid less. Agreed?

Valteena,
Can you post the link on the data that you supplied about women in parliament please that posts is a bit hard to read. Also interesting information there. I am very sure that the war in Rwanda has something to do with the high number of women in parliament. There must be a story behind that. And thank you for that information, so it gives an idea where Nigeria stands. Not good.

NB: TO ALL:
On a side note, I think very soon we should open a discussion on the issue of Nigerian men, Possibly there is one already but I do not really check the lounge section (except when Madam Dewdrops pulls me there). But all this Nigerian men bashing from our NVS ladies nah wah? If we are so bad why are you marrying us? nah by force? Oh maybe you are NOT married to us! I no wan derail this discussion even more so just read this and if you decided to open a thread on it before me, invite me to join...:D Men prepare to defend yourselves then! Abi una no tire laik me? :D

tonsoyo
Sep 9, 2010, 05:34 PM
[
QUOTE=N.A.R.;479340]So its ALL men that do not promote gender equality? And Nigeria is particularly bad. Okay point taken![/QUOTE]

OK, NAR,
What about women projecting gender superiority?

If we are equal why can't they match men, superiority for superiority?

Ajibs
Sep 9, 2010, 05:40 PM
[

OK, NAR,
What about women projecting gender superiority?

If we are equal why can't they match men, superiority for superiority?[/QUOTE]

Tonsoyo,
That specific response to First Lady is to say that the in-equality is not restricted to Nigerian men, but ALL men apparently based on what she said.

ekundayo
Sep 9, 2010, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=N.A.R.;479340]Let me start by responding to this. First as Nigerian man, I certainly take exception to the description up there. I have have women work for me, and I have hired women and I have encouraged, praise and even nominated some for financial rewards for a job well done. Personally, ask my wife make she tell you! :D Now I am operating outside Nigeria, BUT I am still a Nigerian man.

BUT!!! I am not dismissing the statement entirely. But I think that is a far reaching sweeping generalization. ALL Nigerian men cannot be like that, BUT!!! if most women come to this forum and say the same thing, then that would say a mighty lot. I think a very troubling or revealingly part of your statement is the statement above I put in bold, "no matter your relation" is this to say that such discrimination takes place within the family?[COLOR="Blue"]

:eek: NAR..I'm really trying to control myself, I'm just trying to fathom how it is that a man, and a Nigerian man at that who has been exposed to the "enlightened" corners of the world where women are not treated as dogs to be beaten or goats to market, could actually come out with a doubt such as "is this to say that such discrimination takes place within the family?" :confused1 ARGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Can someone help me here? Dewdrops? The family is where this type of behavior is bred! You respond to your Uncle, you respond to your Father, you respond to your Brother. Sadly, once a modern gal leaves home it just doesn't end there...then you have to deal with it in the workplace, and in your marital home. I just attended another meeting yesterday where my brilliant suggestion was greeted with a smirk, twisted face and sneer, as if I had just unloaded a didee of excrement upon the board table, but it was duly, albeit grudgingly adopted and noted... PUHLEEEEEZE!!!!!:rolleyes: I'm not even talking about Oga stealing credit, no no no....it's the area boys cum co-workers who shake me brain down repeatedly....

Dewdrops
Sep 9, 2010, 06:06 PM
NB: TO ALL:
On a side note, I think very soon we should open a discussion on the issue of Nigerian men, Possibly there is one already but I do not really check the lounge section (except when Madam Dewdrops pulls me there). But all this Nigerian men bashing from our NVS ladies nah wah? If we are so bad why are you marrying us? nah by force? Oh maybe you are NOT married to us! I no wan derail this discussion even more so just read this and if you decided to open a thread on it before me, invite me to join...Men prepare to defend yourselves then! Abi una no tire laik me?

Oga N.A.R. I will definitely pull you dia...he he he
We nefa taya for una ke....how una go taya for we eh kwa......???
No barry is bashing Nigerian men. We are only presenting them from our viewpoints THEY WAY THEY ARE....which NO one can question....unless you live in EVERY WOMAN's world.

Only those who do not have husbands at home and are still dying to snag one as latter day virgins on the cyber airways will come out and paint reality with an unrealistic brush.....just for short-term marketing strategies. So women like myself have absolutely NOTHING to gain or lose....in presenting the raw...cold....hard...case....FACTS!


Are you with me?
Gooooood!

Some of us are still MARRIED to these same Nigerian men and would have the utmost credibility OVER and ABOVE/BEYOND those who have not accomplished and will NEVER accomplish such a daunting task. For they do NOT have what it takes........( the psychological dexterity, inate intelligence and the artistic/scientific vis-a-vis the technological know-how of it all, as handed down from generation to generation) :cool:

It is our duty to reform you guys so the black race can be improved in Africa....only a true African woman like myself can do just that.....:2love:

We marry you guys because most importantly, you make for classic entertainment......and we do not want you to go and keep disgracing us with other women of other 'races' as we are the only ones that can protect you from your self-destruct selves. Monkey wor-wor.....but im mama like am abi???:kiss: Some of us are very equal to these challenges and do not feel the least bit intimidated by you guys or succumb to pressures of quitting ya tails! For with the right tools in place...you guys are quite amenable to discipline. :hug:

Futhermore:
1. You guys are morally/spiritually-challenging(A psychiatric crucible and an emoltionally-oxymoronic rubicon)
2. You guys constitute a 'mental gym' for some of us.
3. We owe it to God to reform you from your 'psychotic' ways.
4. Sex is managaeble with the right size of course....we are working on it!...That rustic/basal animalistic instinct is just too much of an appeal to pass up(where we go smell una kind of 'mersmerizing' armpits wey no deodorant fit neutralize eh kwa?)....just wish the brain-pawa could complement simultaneously..... :drool:

A work in progress ma dear....and like any master of the 'arts'....some of us are committed to service exellence. :kiss:

God created an imperfect masterpiece....and we are here to finish God's work till his second coming of course....to make things easy for him. :rose:

Please....make you nor derail dis fine thread...haba.
Any other thread I visit will turn this my yellow card into red sharp-sharp...he he he

Ajibs
Sep 9, 2010, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=N.A.R.;479340]Let me start by responding to this. First as Nigerian man, I certainly take exception to the description up there. I have have women work for me, and I have hired women and I have encouraged, praise and even nominated some for financial rewards for a job well done. Personally, ask my wife make she tell you! :D Now I am operating outside Nigeria, BUT I am still a Nigerian man.

BUT!!! I am not dismissing the statement entirely. But I think that is a far reaching sweeping generalization. ALL Nigerian men cannot be like that, BUT!!! if most women come to this forum and say the same thing, then that would say a mighty lot. I think a very troubling or revealingly part of your statement is the statement above I put in bold, "no matter your relation" is this to say that such discrimination takes place within the family?[COLOR="Blue"]

:eek: NAR..I'm really trying to control myself, I'm just trying to fathom how it is that a man, and a Nigerian man at that who has been exposed to the "enlightened" corners of the world where women are not treated as dogs to be beaten or goats to market, could actually come out with a doubt such as "is this to say that such discrimination takes place within the family?" :confused1 ARGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Can someone help me here? Dewdrops? The family is where this type of behavior is bred! You respond to your Uncle, you respond to your Father, you respond to your Brother. Sadly, once a modern gal leaves home it just doesn't end there...then you have to deal with it in the workplace, and in your marital home. I just attended another meeting yesterday where my brilliant suggestion was greeted with a smirk, twisted face and sneer, as if I had just unloaded a didee of excrement upon the board table, but it was duly, albeit grudgingly adopted and noted... PUHLEEEEEZE!!!!!:rolleyes: I'm not even talking about Oga stealing credit, no no no....it's the area boys cum co-workers who shake me brain down repeatedly....

Ekundayo,
I am glad you did control yourself, great! That will allow us to continue the discussion and not divert again! Going back to what you said initially:


Nigerian men are some of the wickedest on the planet. They believe women were only put here to do one thing: serve them and their needs ( no matter your relation ), selfish ill-mannered creatures that they are....

Again as a Nigerian man, of course I cannot accept you telling me I am the wickedest man on the planet when I can personally get ALL of the women I deal with both professionally and privately to refute that allegation, BUT as I noted I know some rather selfish and greedy Nigerian men, who mistreat everyone, not just women. BUT! I digress.

What I refer to in your quote again is in bold. Nigerian men see women as only to serve one purpose, serve them and their needs. This connotes sexual needs, this is where I got worried as I wonder if you are saying that it is typical for an Uncle for example to demand sexual needs from his niece? Father / daughter? That as we know is incest, that is another issue entirely, if that is what you refer to.

Sorry to hear you got shot down again. Have you thought about how to deal with this if it happens rather often? Not accept it, but deal with it.

valteena
Sep 9, 2010, 06:40 PM
Valteena,



I never claimed that America is a matriarchal society.

America is dominated by White Males.

Those White Males have used their power to convert the Black/Negro community into a matriarchy because it is a well known fact that matriarchal societies are weak and vulnerable to domination by outsiders. It is sexual divide and rule analogous to ethnic divide and rule. It is the promotion of an unnatural state that NATURALLY leads to the destabilization of communities.

In times of slavery it was done by separating men from the mothers of their children.

In modern times it has been done by providing Negro women welfare and better jobs than Negro men so that they could view their men as being of no use except for sex.

This view of Negro men is why 77% of Black children in the USA are born as illegitimate bastards, with all the resultant deleterious effects. This behavior is NOT confined to lower class Negro households or individuals. The few Negroes who do get married have the highest divorce rates.

The rate of non-marriage among high earning Black Females is very high, at least much higher than similarly placed women of other races. Ponder this, and please check it very well: among women of all races, in every economic class, from the ghetto to the Boardroom, Black Women are the only ones with a lower rate of marriage than their male racial counterparts.

My contention is that there is no way to ensure equality anywhere, whether racial, sexual, ethnic or national. It is not natural. So when it comes to men and women, there MUST be a dominant sex. The only question is who is going to be dominant. Your visions of equality are null on arrival, such a state doesn't exist in nature. You might as well fantasize about finding ice cubes inside an active volcano.

We have seen the results of Negro matriarchy in America and the UK and they have been disastrous for Negro males. You have your matriarchy there and it works for you, enjoy it. Please leave Africans alone. We have made our choices, enjoy yours.

All you see has been ordained by God. It is His Will. That he hasn't changed his mind despite all the feminist slander thrown at African men may be because you haven't been faithful Christians, he doesn't shower blessings on hypocrites.

I'm sure the millions of poverty stricken men that exist in Nigeria don't feel so dominant compared to some of the females on Sisi Eko's list.

My sisters. They live well, single or married. I wonder why any woman would feel oppressed when my sisters and mother are so happy....oh, my mother lives in America. The perfect country.

Destiny is a mother****a and Fate is a bitch.

If you disagree with God then take up your guns and do what you feel. Talk is cheap.

!Life Is A Market!
Obugi.

Obugi I never claimed that you claimed that (umm!!!na wa for this my construction:)) America is a matriarchal society. I only reiterated the known fact that America is a patriarchal society as a preamble to your claim which you did make that certain group within the American society are matriarchal. The Negro or African American to be precise. What is a matriarchal society in the first instance. I guess your definition of a matriarchal society is different from mine.

A matriarchal society as I know it is one in which not only familial, but political authority is wielded by women. Do African American women wield such authority?. I don't think so and this stats below confirms so too


As of 2009 in the 111th United States Congress, 441 members of Congress are male (83%) and 92 are female (17%). 76 women serving the U.S. House and 17 in the U.S. Senate which is the highest number of women to hold congressional office in the US. The global average for female representation at the parliamentary level in 2009 is 18.6%.

Black Members; Currently There are 43 black or African American Members in the Congress, the same as the record number elected to the 110th Congress. Forty-two 42 members (9.5%) serve in the House and one serve in the Senate. Roland Burris was sworn in as senator on January 15, 2009 after being appointed by tainted Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. Barack Obama previously held this seat but resigned from his position on November 16, 2008, after winning the Presidential election of 2008 and becoming the first African American to be elected President of the United States. All are Democrats, including two Delegates.

Of this 43, thirteen black or African American women, including two Delegates, serve in the House.

The above scenario is most likely replicated in the economic and socio sphere as well with more African American men than women in position of authority. So you see that contrary to what you may think, African American women are not really in authority.

You are confusing a deliberate systemic act of deprivation and impoverishment that has left African American women struggling to survive and maintain their family in the absence of their men as matriarchal. How can the inability of certain group to participate fully in socio political and economic terms in the society in which they live be equated to be matriarchy. No it isn't matriarchy but a completely different socio issue that has been well covered variously on this forum and can still be covered on a different thread if you want to.

Dewdrops
Sep 9, 2010, 06:58 PM
:eek: NAR..I'm really trying to control myself, I'm just trying to fathom how it is that a man, and a Nigerian man at that who has been exposed to the "enlightened" corners of the world where women are not treated as dogs to be beaten or goats to market, could actually come out with a doubt such as

"is this to say that such discrimination takes place within the family?" :confused1 ARGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Can someone help me here? Dewdrops? The family is where this type of behavior is bred! You respond to your Uncle, you respond to your Father, you respond to your Brother. Sadly, once a modern gal leaves home it just doesn't end there...then you have to deal with it in the workplace, and in your marital home. I just attended another meeting yesterday where my brilliant suggestion was greeted with a smirk, twisted face and sneer, as if I had just unloaded a didee of excrement upon the board table, but it was duly, albeit grudgingly adopted and noted... PUHLEEEEEZE!!!!!:rolleyes: I'm not even talking about Oga stealing credit, no no no....it's the area boys cum co-workers who shake me brain down repeatedly....

I am as baffled as you are.....for I am beginning to believe that N.A.R. is really Superego....the Yoruba man from Saudi Arabia...who has never touched African soil except in his dreams and on the cyber....lol: As a result.....he can NEVER truly identify with such causes/nature of gender equality and the lack thereof in the Nigerian society. The funny thing is that those Nigerian men who claim to live abroad are even WORSE than the ones living in Nigeria. Reason......you do not wake up from a dream you left in Nigeria to go to the bathroom....abroad...only to come back to your sleep to resume from where you stopped dreaming.

Simplified....totally lost and disconnected from the reality of things.

Otherwise like you rightly pointed out in horror.....Oga N.A.R must have NEVER lived in Nigeria or has no FEMALE relatives anywhere in Nigeria to even start a thread on the premise he presented here.

Could it be total denial or facetiousness????

Look at all the evidence presented in Valteena's posts and we are stil having this thread without even talking about solutions?

Sistah abeg nor vess oooooooh...I am here reading some of the most ridiculuous things I have seen in a while on this thread from NIGERIAN men....should I be surprised....heck no!

Pepertrators cannot be reformists abi????

Thank God say I be first born...FIRST daughter.....those useless brothers of mine for show me pepper with all that their 'village....male nonsense'.....till today....I am still shoving **** down their throats if they so much as try to cheat me in any way of form.:rolleyes:

My momma did not play that from her brothers either. :shake:

This gender inequality mess starts right from the family....from the fathers...then the brothers....uncles and so on and so forth.....!!!!

The reason I believe only women can liberate themselves from this inequality mess.

Ho-ha!

valteena
Sep 9, 2010, 09:55 PM
Whereas I am totally against cultural and social values that tend to keep women down, but I believe there is nothing like gender equality, it is a myth, it simply does not exist! We are not naturally calibrated to be equal.

This has been socially manifested, scientifically proven, biologically impossible and Biblically sanctioned, please do not even mention Koran.

Most of what manifest as discrimination against women have their roots in genetical composition and limitations of the different gender.

I wonder most of the times how my wife is able to cope with my two adorable troubles as I refer to my little kids, these guys will wear me out in two hours, I wonder where she derive the strength to handle their unrelenting energy, then I wonder more that she does not even have the strength to start our lawn mower, talkless of operating it, a task I do with utmost ease.

I am not saying anymore for now, until the expected firework starts.






OK, NAR,
What about women projecting gender superiority?

If we are equal why can't they match men, superiority for superiority?

Tonsoyo the unequal calibration you speak of is only in terms of physical strength. Is it physical strength that is required to effectively manage/govern people or brains, discernment and humanness. We know that men and women differ biologically but they differ not in intellect or common sense.

Even sociologists reject this predominantly biological explanations for male dominance and contend that social and cultural conditioning is primarily responsible for establishing male and female gender roles. According to standard sociological theory, patriarchy is the result of sociological constructions that are passed down from generation to generation. These constructions they say are most pronounced in societies with traditional cultures and less economic development which is how most societies started off.

Even in today's developed societies, gender messages conveyed by family, mass media, and other institutions still largely favour males having a dominant status.

My point is that there is more to us than our biological co ordinates. Just as men can rise above their testosterone to become leaders, women are not defined by their wombs alone. We may lack the testosterone surges that make little boys delight in smashing each other with sticks, but we are born and remain every bit as competitive, capable and formidable as men.

Btw like I said before it is not about reversing the roles for women to rule over men. It is all about giving equal opportunity to the women folks. A level playing field for both sexes without the present undue tilt in favour of the male.

---------- Post added at 04:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------


Austin,

It takes some keen insight and a bit of fairness to get at the undertone of my comments.



This is what I've been trying to say.

Life expectancy for men in Nigeria is like 10yrs less than that of women. What greater level of oppression can exist than a denial of life? Why aren't we hearing calls for an all out effort to equalize life expectancy?

Like you've said, the Nigerian State we have has no mechanisms for meeting ANYONES aspirations. If feminists want equality, let us first address the issues on which an egalitarian society can be built.

Hardwork, not springing from desperation but innovation, big dreams and a desire to produce benefits for the society.

Let's liberate our country from the domination of a colonial economic system. Anyone doing business in Nigeria will find out as I have that our economy is completely owned by foreign corporations. Even companies you think are Nigerian are only nominally so....in any industry you can think of.

Will our women join us in this great struggle for liberation, after which we can talk about the problems that afflict us as individuals or groups? If we don't want to build a collective on our own merits, then hey.....it's every person do your own thing.

Absent a new Nigeria where each ethnicity is free, anyone asking me for anything based on the laws or sentiment for Nigeria or "Nigerians" as we have it now is asking for death. You'll either have to kill me or I'll kill you, and God knows life is cheap here. On what basis exactly is a Negro woman or any Negro for that matter asking that I extend her charity? That we're Nigerians? What country is that, the one Lugard drew on a map? Negro solidarity? A common religious affinity? Seriously, exactly what is the basis?

Y'all can keep that crap in America and the West where there's a collective with a common basis for existence. Out here is the jungle and the White Man made it so.

Feminists please leave us alone to do our work. Go get yours.

!Life Is a Market!
Obugi.


Obugi seem to be separating women's right as distinct from other rights from a prejudicial prism. As the saying goes, women's right is human right. Meaning that the quest for equality for women exist as a part of the larger struggle to eradicate domination in all its forms. This fact in itself is one rallying point that unifies women's goal for equality with that of the entire society.

---------- Post added at 04:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------




[B]Valteena,
Can you post the link on the data that you supplied about women in parliament please that posts is a bit hard to read. Also interesting information there. I am very sure that the war in Rwanda has something to do with the high number of women in parliament. There must be a story behind that. And thank you for that information, so it gives an idea where Nigeria stands. Not good.

[/I]

Here is the story about astronomical rise in governance by Rwandan women. Of particular note is the figure that Forty-one percent of businesses are now owned by women in Rwanda.

Our own ex INEC chairman professor Maurice Iwu has advocated that 50 % of elective positions be reserved for women in the 2011 general elections. And I don't see anything amiss with setting some kind of quota for women in Nigeria too in my view. If women in Rwanda can blaze the trail to become the first set of women to have a majority in parliament with 56 seats through similar reserved elective positions, there is no reason why women in Nigeria shouldn't be able to secure such for themselves as well.


[B]Rwanda Elects World's First Majority-Female Parliament
When you think of bastions of women's rights, Eastern Africa does not immediately spring to mind. But this month Rwanda became the first country in the world to have a majority-female parliament.

Today 56 percent of the Rwandan parliament comprises of women, including one-third of all cabinet positions and the chief of the Supreme Court. Rwanda also just voted in their first female speaker of parliament, Dr. Rose Mukantabana.

While Rwanda has the highest ratio of women to men in any parliament worldwide, the US ranks number 69, sandwiched between Bolivia and El Salvador, with just 16.8 percent of Congress being female.



After the genocide in 1994, thousands of men were jailed for war crimes or fled the country, leaving a population that was 70 percent female. As a result women took on roles in politics and business. Forty-one percent of businesses are now owned by women in Rwanda compared with 18 per cent in neighboring Congo.

Rwanda adopted a quota system as part of its constitution in 2003, mandating that at least 30 percent of the parliament be women. The country also abolished laws prohibiting women from inheriting and owning property, and encouraged education among girls and women.

In spring 2004 - as Rwanda commemorated the 10th anniversary of the genocide - WIDE ANGLE traveled to this fractured nation to make a film that looks forward instead of back. Profiling women on the forefront of change, Ladies First reveals the challenges facing them and their country as Rwanda struggles to build a sustainable peace between the majority Hutus and minority Tutsis - a peace that has eluded the country for almost half a century.



Women Run the Show In a Recovering Rwanda

By Stephanie McCrummen

KIGALI, Rwanda -- On a continent that has been dominated by the rule of men, this tiny East African nation is trying something new.

Here, women are not only driving the economy -- working on construction sites, in factories and as truck and taxi drivers -- they are also filling the ranks of government.

Women hold a third of all cabinet positions, including foreign minister, education minister, Supreme Court chief and police commissioner general. And Rwanda's parliament last month became the first in the world where women claim the majority -- 56 percent, including the speaker's chair.

One result is that Rwanda has banished archaic patriarchal laws that are still enforced in many African societies, such as those that prevent women from inheriting land. The legislature has passed bills aimed at ending domestic violence and child abuse, while a committee is now combing through the legal code to purge it of discriminatory laws.

One lawmaker said the committee has compiled "a stack" of laws to modify or toss out altogether -- including one that requires a woman to get her husband's signature on a bank loan.

"The fact that we are so many has made it possible for men to listen to our views," said lawmaker Espérance Mwiza. "Now that we're a majority, we can do even more."

The unusually high percentage of women in Rwandan government is in part a reflection of popular will in a country of 10 million that is 55 percent female.

But it also reflects the heavy hand of one man, President Paul Kagame, whose photo hangs on the walls of houses, restaurants and shops. It also hovered over the swiveling leather chair of parliament speaker Rose Mukantabana as she opened a session late last week.

Since the 1994 genocide, in which more than 800,000 ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed in 100 days of highly organized violence that included the systematic rape of Tutsi women, Kagame, a Tutsi, has enforced a kind of zealous social engineering.

With a population that was about 70 percent female after the genocide, Kagame's new government adopted ambitious policies to help women economically and politically, including a new constitution in 2003 requiring that at least 30 percent of all parliamentary and cabinet seats go to women. The remaining 26 percent of the women in parliament were indirectly elected.

"This was a broken society after the genocide," said Aloisea Inyumba, Kagame's former gender and social affairs minister, who was also a prominent official in his ruling Rwandan Patriotic Front when it was still a rebel group fighting the country's genocidal government. "We made a decision that if Rwanda is going to survive, we have to have a change of heart as a society. Equality and reconciliation are the only options."

While many African legislatures have adopted quotas reserving seats for female lawmakers, none has done so as ambitiously as Rwanda. The country's overall attitude toward gender puts it at odds with its neighbors.

Auspicious
Sep 9, 2010, 10:45 PM
-

I been watching this thread for a while now but didn't click-in.

And now that I clicked-in, I still don't know what the fuss is about.

I mean, what the hell is "gender equality"? Sounds like an Oxymoron.

Genders can only be equal if women can also boast of their own willies.

And you know what that means? Bill Carson gonna be asking to grow boobies.
--

Orire
Sep 10, 2010, 12:15 PM
I am as baffled as you are.....for I am beginning to believe that N.A.R. is really Superego....the Yoruba man from Saudi Arabia...who has never touched African soil except in his dreams and on the cyber....lol: As a result.....he can NEVER truly identify with such causes/nature of gender equality and the lack thereof in the Nigerian society. The funny thing is that those Nigerian men who claim to live abroad are even WORSE than the ones living in Nigeria. Reason......you do not wake up from a dream you left in Nigeria to go to the bathroom....abroad...only to come back to your sleep to resume from where you stopped dreaming.

Simplified....totally lost and disconnected from the reality of things.

Otherwise like you rightly pointed out in horror.....Oga N.A.R must have NEVER lived in Nigeria or has no FEMALE relatives anywhere in Nigeria to even start a thread on the premise he presented here.

Could it be total denial or facetiousness????

Look at all the evidence presented in Valteena's posts and we are stil having this thread without even talking about solutions?

Sistah abeg nor vess oooooooh...I am here reading some of the most ridiculuous things I have seen in a while on this thread from NIGERIAN men....should I be surprised....heck no!

Pepertrators cannot be reformists abi????

Thank God say I be first born...FIRST daughter.....those useless brothers of mine for show me pepper with all that their 'village....male nonsense'.....till today....I am still shoving **** down their throats if they so much as try to cheat me in any way of form.:rolleyes:

My momma did not play that from her brothers either. :shake:

This gender inequality mess starts right from the family....from the fathers...then the brothers....uncles and so on and so forth.....!!!!

The reason I believe only women can liberate themselves from this inequality mess.

Ho-ha!

Hehehehe! Well said Dewdrops, I thought about replying to NAR but he had me so flummoxed I decided it was better to just chop my jollof rice and call it a night, not, however, before I learned our NVS agents somehow took offense with my comments (?) somewhere on my nightly rampage thru the forum, and would not let me post. Tsk Tsk. You go girl!

---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------


-

I been watching this thread for a while now but didn't click-in.

And now that I clicked-in, I still don't know what the fuss is about.

I mean, what the hell is "gender equality"? Sounds like an Oxymoron.

Genders can only be equal if women can also boast of their own willies.

And you know what that means? Bill Carson gonna be asking to grow boobies.
--

This is part of the problem..."GENDERS CAN ONLY BE EQUAL IF WOMEN CAN ALSO BOAST OF THEIR OWN WILLIES."

What makes you think that having an oko is in the superior first place? You just proved the whole theory that men, NIgerian or otherwise, believe they are inherently superior to women. Why didn't you say "GENDERS CAN ONLY BE EQUAL IF MEN CAN ALSO BOAST OF THEIR VERY OWN TOTOS"? Because you believe you and your little friend are "superior"! heeheheheh, can anyone attest to that?[COLOR="Blue"]

---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

PapaDonkee!!! Catholic priest, trousers around his ankles and robe over his face, getting a demure blow job from a pious nun, maybe? :eek!
Women only represent 2% of the deaths recorded in the Iraq War? Hmm, interesting. Maybe their smaller body sizes are more difficult to hit; or they are more cautious and averse to risky rambo-esque manoeuvres; or the 'rebel forces' don't want to waste bullets on low-threat targets (logically low-threat because of the previously mentioned low-risk behaviour); or the women are actually better soldiers (which would explain the low-death percentage, but would make the decision of the insurgents not to shoot them illogical).

KWA KWA KWA!!! You almost made me spit up all over keyboard last night with this... "averse to risky rambo-esque maneuvers"

BY THE WAY...ATTENTION NVS GODS....WHY HAVE YOU SENT EKUNDAYO INTO LIMBO? HAVE I BEEN BANNED? HAVE I BEEN YELLOW CARDED AS MY SISTAH DEWDROPS HAS BEEN? WHAT IS MY CRIME? ARE YOU GOING TO LET AUSPY AND OTHERS RUN ROUGHSHOD OVER THE WHOLE FORUM YET YOU HAVE SENT ME INTO PURGATORY FOR SOME UNNAMED CRIME? KWA KWA KWA.....!!!

Ajibs
Sep 10, 2010, 06:31 PM
To all the NVS ladies:
First, believe it or not, I appreciate ALL the responses so far. If it appears that I am in the dark about some of your plight in Nigeria, my apologies, as you noted, I am not a woman so, some of these things might not come high on my radar and my sis by the way is also a no nonsense gal, if any man tried to mess around with her, God help that poor man!

So I agree with a lot and some others I do not and take an exception as I noted to Ekundayo. I think the discussion has gone quite well. For me it has been pretty enlightening. I can see the anger in many responses. I appreciate very much the factual information provided by Valteena. BUT!!! The discussion continues.

I think it was Madam Dewdrops that asked why I started the thread in the first place. Well I will tell you, it is a personal reason. My mother was an FGGC and FGC high school principal in Nigeria 18 years, spanning 3 separate federal schools, I have since seen many of her students who have gone on to exceptional great heights within and outside Nigeria. So I wonder, did all her hard work all those years pay off? That got me thinking about how those schools affected / promoted gender equality in Nigeria, I pretty much mention this in the opening thread, so I wanted to see and find out mainly from you NVS female members what you think about the issue. So how did the creation of those schools and other initiatives led to better gender equality in Nigeria? Yes / No? It appears most of the female respondents say NO!

I recalled those stories on campus in Ife when certain lecturers were noted to have demanded punani (lol have not used that word in a while) from female students in order to pass them, then of course we heard of the other stories of the girls who gave the punani willingly to get the good grades. Who was right and who was wrong? my guess, both are correct. Some demanded, other did give freely.

There is NO QUESTION that Nigeria remains a male dominated patriarchal society today, for various reasons, but the picture that some women are painting here is one that seems to indicate that women and more or less under perpetual abuse in Nigeria, even those who are educated. They have not made any inroads at all, they are still by and large at the mercy of men in Nigeria. Is this really the case? Sisi Ekoseems the only female here that acknowledges that some women have indeed made good inroads in various capacities it in that country.

By the way on the issue of the discrimination starting from the family, I say again that this is also prevalent in many societies in the world. Many are Patriarchal socities as noted by Obugi. Check out Italy, for example remember the movie: The Godfather. I know of an Italian family personally where the male son is treated far better than the daughter in almost all instances. Why do I say this? When I have Ekundayo telling me that Nigerian men and wicked and it starts form the family, I say, not that she is not correct, but I add that the same sort of "family female discrimination" takes place in many families in many cultures world wide. So again, not to say that it is right, but to note that please do not make it look like the Nigerian men are evil. I use the Italian example to note this happens even in the enlightened and ore gender equal: "Western World".

Back to Myth or Reality:
Now Reality: Nigeria is NOT gender equal, I know this and this has been further noted by the responses and data from the NVS ladies. Then the next question becomes: Can Nigeria become a gender equal society? The answer to this question seems so far to be NO.

From Austin's and Obugi's responses, and also from Madam Dewdrops (When she no dey vex...lol) and others, one can say then that it might remain a "Myth" as though the government has set up institutions like the FGGC's that allow and promote female education, the government has not instituted the necessary laws, or enforced the laws currently on the books to allow for or promote gender equality. You may want to note at this point that Nigeria even has a "Ministry of Women affairs" and the United States does not.

But talking about laws for a minute that promote gender equality, as many of you know I am in construction. There is a current federal law and most states have also adopted the law for promoting minority businesses. There is a classification now of companies called WBE's: Women Business Enterprise. Then there are also MBE's: Minority Business Enperprise. in the WBE's a woman must owe a minimum of 51% of the ownership of that company to qualify as an WBE. Now the government law has stated that a minimum of 7% of the contractual sum of Fed. Contracts must go to WBE firms, MBE's get 15-35% Some states have the WBE percentage at 15%. I should add in most cases the percentage also depends on the size of the contract.

This puts the few WBE's in construction in very high demand! And the law is seriously enforced. You need a waiver to get out of law and in many counties, if you do not have an WBE or MBE, they provide you with a list of companies registered with them for you to select one to work with. This is an example of enacting a law and actually apllying the law, but believe it or not, this law only started being seriously applied about two decades ago. And then consider the fact that on a contract sum of 100% only 7% is asked to be set aside for women businesses.

The MBE criteria was created to try to correct the White Male dominance in the business / construction world, the WBE was added later as it was apparently admitted that even White women were also not given opportunities in the same world, this correlates with Obugi's statements on this that America is a White Male dominated society and even the government has recognized this by the laws it enacted. So are there laws in Nigeria to promote women? I do not recall if the FGM law has been enacted or not. How about there laws?

Ekundayo / Orire
You might want to report to the Admins if you did not get a Red, Yellow or Black card or whatever, I believe you do not get banned just laik dat. Chances are there is an error in the system. This new site madness has brought all manner to katakata to NVS. Anyhow they tell us is is better for us now. So we just have to jejely put up with the issues.

Dewdrops
Sep 11, 2010, 10:27 PM
To all the NVS ladies:
First, believe it or not, I appreciate ALL the responses so far. If it appears that I am in the dark about some of your plight in Nigeria, my apologies, as you noted, I am not a woman so, some of these things might not come high on my radar and my sis by the way is also a no nonsense gal, if any man tried to mess around with her, God help that poor man!
So I agree with a lot and some others I do not and take an exception as I noted to Ekundayo. I think the discussion has gone quite well. For me it has been pretty enlightening. I can see the anger in many responses. I appreciate very much the factual information provided by Valteena. BUT!!! The discussion continues.

I think it was Madam Dewdrops that asked why I started the thread in the first place. Well I will tell you, it is a personal reason. My mother was an FGGC and FGC high school principal in Nigeria 18 years, spanning 3 separate federal schools, I have since seen many of her students who have gone on to exceptional great heights within and outside Nigeria. So I wonder, did all her hard work all those years pay off? That got me thinking about how those schools affected / promoted gender equality in Nigeria, I pretty much mention this in the opening thread, so I wanted to see and find out mainly from you NVS female members what you think about the issue. So how did the creation of those schools and other initiatives led to better gender equality in Nigeria? Yes / No? It appears most of the female respondents say NO!


Yes.....the discussion continues.
Are you comparing Nigeria 20 years ago to Nigeria of 2010....almost 2011???
I hope you realize that discrimination based on ethnicism...gender....socio-economic status....religion have ALL gotten worse and will keep getting worse despite the so-called exposure to civilization in Africa....not just Nigeria???



from Madam Dewdrops (When she no dey vex...lol) and others, one can say then that it might remain a "Myth" as though the government has set up institutions like the FGGC's that allow and promote female education, the government has not instituted the necessary laws, or enforced the laws currently on the books to allow for or promote gender equality. You may want to note at this point that Nigeria even has a "Ministry of Women affairs" and the United States does not.

So you still have doubt???
This na real discussion.
You are having a 'discussion' on a subject matter of which you have absolutely no clue???
Wonders!!!!

I go vex well well ooooooh....especially, if wor wor peeps piss me off....arrrrrrrrrrant nonsense! Who born dem??? I nor dey find 'usband...so no need to play "Gentle Lady".....shioooooooooor!!!! :rolleyes:

Austin
Sep 13, 2010, 12:49 PM
....

Back to Myth or Reality:
Now Reality: Nigeria is NOT gender equal, I know this and this has been further noted by the responses and data from the NVS ladies. Then the next question becomes: Can Nigeria become a gender equal society? The answer to this question seems so far to be NO.

From Austin's and Obugi's responses, and also from Madam Dewdrops (When she no dey vex...lol) and others, one can say then that it might remain a "Myth" as though the government has set up institutions like the FGGC's that allow and promote female education, the government has not instituted the necessary laws, or enforced the laws currently on the books to allow for or promote gender equality. You may want to note at this point that Nigeria even has a "Ministry of Women affairs" and the United States does not.
........

The MBE criteria was created to try to correct the White Male dominance in the business / construction world, the WBE was added later as it was apparently admitted that even White women were also not given opportunities in the same world, this correlates with Obugi's statements on this that America is a White Male dominated society and even the government has recognized this by the laws it enacted. So are there laws in Nigeria to promote women? I do not recall if the FGM law has been enacted or not. How about there laws?

@N.A.R,
I think the attempt to summarise the various entries is a nice one so that we can all have an overview of the opinions on the issue of discuss. So, kudos for it.

However, I want to to object to the way my own opinion has been summarised even though that might be a hard task to do.
Perhaps my grouse is just with the word "myth" - even when it is in quotes. I do not think that gender equality in Nigeria is at all a "myth", as a myth is something which only exist as a figment of imagination.

To me gender equality is a reality in nigeria, although the degree of that reality can always be debated. As we seem to have agreed upon, gender equality is about fairness to women together with their empowerment and access to the same opportunities as men. And I think that Nigeria as a nation and indeed some ethnic groups within Nigeria, have gone to agreat length to treat women fairly. But again, the degree of this fairness can always be debated and expanded as situation may permit.

One thing I know is that human wants are insatiable (high school economics lol!). And therefore, like Oliver Twist, we are all (almost always) in default mode to ask for more - of everything and at every time? And for this reason, I think it is important for us to be able to distinguish between the sheer indulgence of asking for more and the sheer necessity of asking for the basic.

There is a lot of room for improvement in gender equality issues in Nigeria, but I doubt if decreing: the number of parliamentary seats (as in Rwanda); or the number of seats in corporate boards (as in Norway) - among others, are the topmost in our list of priorities. For even in some of those countries where such decrees have been made, or in those where the level of economic progress and corrolarilly gender equality have advanced, women are still found to be lagging behind men in many areas, and interestingly as a matter of choice - both consciously and unconsciously

and when I say Nigeria has advanced I am talking of not only of FGGCs, but also of the fact that
- all other mixed schools do not descriminate against girls.
- all higher institutions in Nigeria have always been available to women
- recruitments into gevernment/ministry jobs have always been open to women
- professional bodies have always accepted women and have had women run them
- the Nigerian courts have never ruled against a woman simply because of her gender
- schools, hospitals, banks and many other institutions and companies have always been run by women who have what it takes.
- there have been female ministers and deputy governors, ambassadors, senators, judges and even a presidential running mate among others
- there are female musicians, actresses, editors and entrepreneurs.
- as a result we even have many women millionaires (and from time immemorial) especially among the Yorubas which I know for sure
- to cap it all, we even have a Ministry of Women Affairs to cordinate the affairs of women in the country.

Once again, it is on the basis of all the above and much more that I am not comfortable with the expression "myth" - even as I have already made comments about the persistent problem with the collective attitude towards gender equality - which there is no need repeat here. Gender equality in Nigeria is a mixed bag of successes and urgent need for fundamental improvements, but to call it a "myth" is perhaps a bit too far fetched - IMO.

Orire
Sep 14, 2010, 07:58 AM
I can relate very well.
At my place of employment we were exploring new ways of doing something and I suggested what I thought was a brilliant idea.
The departmental head quickly silenced me and every other voices and imposed his.
I have no idea why someone would call a meeting to discuss ideas and come up with a plan when he already had a plan etched in stone.
Anyway we tried his for 3 days,it didn't work
Guess what?
My original idea is now being implemented and I got no credit for it.

That's what men do


all men do it
If you're married,your husband probably does the same
You advise him,honey let's do it this way,he does it that way then 2 months later he tells you he has new idea or solution on how it could be done and and he proceeds to tell you the exact same thing you told him 2 months prior.
Men!
Very stubborn creatures:pray::pray::pray:

But all these are our examples are pretty mild compared to the main subject matter
The world at large is a male dominated place but thankfully laws are being instituted to protect women in civilized societies of which Nigeria is not one and even if laws were put in place in Nigeria,who would enforce it.
We are talking about a place where a man would beat up his wife,she goes to the police and they tell her to go home and be a good wife or a girl is raped and a judge asks what she was doing with a man alone?
We have a looooooooooooong way to go


Yup.....that's what men do...DewDrops, help me out here. I'd like to propose a new thread. One on blaming the ills and lack of progress in NIgeria and the African Continent on its pervasive and deep rooted sexism and political exclusion. The inclusion of women would go a long way towards solving the messes put up by our "better halves".



To all the NVS ladies:
First, believe it or not, I appreciate ALL the responses so far. If it appears that I am in the dark about some of your plight in Nigeria, my apologies, as you noted, I am not a woman so, some of these things might not come high on my radar and my sis by the way is also a no nonsense gal, if any man tried to mess around with her, God help that poor man!

So I agree with a lot and some others I do not and take an exception as I noted to Ekundayo. I think the discussion has gone quite well. For me it has been pretty enlightening. I can see the anger in many responses. I appreciate very much the factual information provided by Valteena. BUT!!! The discussion continues.

[/I]

@N.A.R. What exactly you no GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE with??? Did I call you wicked? No I did not. Did I call all Nigerian men wicked? No I did not. Did I say that "Nigerian men are some of the most wicked on the planet?" Yes, I did. SOME SOME SOME....don't you start talking down to me either with your have I thought how to "deal with" the office backstabbing politics. I'd tell you how I deal with it but then It wouldn't be a secret anymore, would it. Let's just say the worst offenders get "removed". Never think you can outwit a woman.

ekundayo
Sep 14, 2010, 08:15 AM
Oh yes, I'm back....I'd like to close with a conversation I had yesterday with a man I know from my neighborhood (Nigerian, Muslim, Yoruba). I asked him if he knew where I could buy some hand weights etc., and his perplexed reply was: "Well what do you need the weights for?" :idea:ummm to exercise, gain and keep muscle..."Well what will you use the muscles for....!!!!????" :eek:all the while looking at me as if I were daft. I think that speaks volumes. :pray::pray::pray:

Ajibs
Sep 14, 2010, 07:29 PM
Yup.....that's what men do...DewDrops, help me out here. I'd like to propose a new thread. One on blaming the ills and lack of progress in NIgeria and the African Continent on its pervasive and deep rooted sexism and political exclusion. The inclusion of women would go a long way towards solving the messes put up by our "better halves".




@N.A.R. What exactly you no GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE with??? Did I call you wicked? No I did not. Did I call all Nigerian men wicked? No I did not. Did I say that "Nigerian men are some of the most wicked on the planet?" Yes, I did. SOME SOME SOME....don't you start talking down to me either with your have I thought how to "deal with" the office backstabbing politics. I'd tell you how I deal with it but then It wouldn't be a secret anymore, would it. Let's just say the worst offenders get "removed". Never think you can outwit a woman.

I actually do not see what called for that comment in bold above, talking down at you? How so? You said it again: Nigerian men and some of the most wicked on the planet, You did NOT SAY SOME Nigerian men. So if you are making a correction of your statement, that is okay. But to say I am talking down on you, I wonder where that comes from, no problem, sorry to have made a suggestion.

Austin,
I will be back to give a broader response. But a quick one, do you see how much the women of the forum seem to disagree that there is anything close to gender equality in Nigeria? Hmm....

Dewdrops
Sep 15, 2010, 02:36 AM
Hehehehe! Well said Dewdrops, I thought about replying to NAR but he had me so flummoxed I decided it was better to just chop my jollof rice and call it a night, not, however, before I learned our NVS agents somehow took offense with my comments (?) somewhere on my nightly rampage thru the forum, and would not let me post. Tsk Tsk. You go girl!



---------- Post added at 01:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------



This is part of the problem..."GENDERS CAN ONLY BE EQUAL IF WOMEN CAN ALSO BOAST OF THEIR OWN WILLIES."

What makes you think that having an oko is in the superior first place? You just proved the whole theory that men, NIgerian or otherwise, believe they are inherently superior to women.

Why didn't you say "GENDERS CAN ONLY BE EQUAL IF MEN CAN ALSO BOAST OF THEIR VERY OWN TOTOS"?

Because you believe you and your little friend are "superior"! heeheheheh, can anyone attest to that?



---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

PapaDonkee!!! Catholic priest, trousers around his ankles and robe over his face, getting a demure blow job from a pious nun, maybe? :eek!
Women only represent 2% of the deaths recorded in the Iraq War? Hmm, interesting. Maybe their smaller body sizes are more difficult to hit; or they are more cautious and averse to risky rambo-esque manoeuvres; or the 'rebel forces' don't want to waste bullets on low-threat targets (logically low-threat because of the previously mentioned low-risk behaviour); or the women are actually better soldiers (which would explain the low-death percentage, but would make the decision of the insurgents not to shoot them illogical).

KWA KWA KWA!!! You almost made me spit up all over keyboard last night with this... "averse to risky rambo-esque maneuvers"

BY THE WAY...ATTENTION NVS GODS....WHY HAVE YOU SENT EKUNDAYO INTO LIMBO? HAVE I BEEN BANNED? HAVE I BEEN YELLOW CARDED AS MY SISTAH DEWDROPS HAS BEEN? WHAT IS MY CRIME?

ARE YOU GOING TO LET AUSPY AND OTHERS RUN ROUGHSHOD OVER THE WHOLE FORUM YET YOU HAVE SENT ME INTO PURGATORY FOR SOME UNNAMED CRIME? KWA KWA KWA.....!!!


So dem don 'freeze' ya button like dem do my own wan time eh kwa?
Wonders! :lol: That na silent ban......no complain...no witness.
Den....you nor be JJC.
Sambaarrry don 'decode' your Sat-Nav/GPS...plus hack into ya 'google' jhion ontop!!!! :clap:

Tee hee hee hee hee hee
Are you suspected of being "Da Ex Voyeuristic Lurker" or "Da Po-Po"???
Any pat on "Dewdrops" back will get you a ban alright.(Who gives a "f"?) :rolleyes:
That is your crime.....!!!

They will always take offence if you are not in someone's arse 24/7 with a ten-foot pole for a straw....sucking that brown, poopy, milk-shake ourraf it!

Welcome to 'gender' equality...fact or fiction, myth vs reality....NVS branch part II LOL!!!
Welcome to 'signs' and 'wonders' on ENU-VEE-ESH! :hail:

So watch ya back....tee hee hee hee hee hee
Please, let them run roughshod all they want...as long as they keep to their 'pepper-soup' gang speed limits. :lol:
If any one comes your way.....just blast him or her ourrra cyber space and beyond! Ban or nor ban. Report button nor dey work around here.....except in the favor of the 'rough-shod' cyber road-runners. So make sure your gun is fully-loaded at all times...!!!

Ho-ha!

hohohohohoho

Please...gender equality is not a reality in my American world.....that na Nigerian 'suffer-head' matter. Not my business. Everywoman should fight for herself. I fight for myself. I don't do 'group' liberation fronts or backs......

Only till women learn to fight individually from within their own homes......starting with from their fathers.....uncles...brothers...sons and nephews....can the battle against gender inequality be addressed. Otherwise.....everyother thing is a matter of one step forward and 5 steps backwards.

Don't count on the men for help...they only exist to keep the status quo....Not in my compound for sure.:kiss:
Not anywhere in my world......I don't play that kind of mess.:cool:

Ajibs
Sep 17, 2010, 03:25 PM
These two stories are very relevant to this discussion. I will be back to make further comments / opinions, but whats your take? My quick comment on the Indian video is, what the women say there seems to resonate with a lot of what the women have said here.

If the embed is not working click here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11331294) for the clip.

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Big Brother Africa evicts housemate for punching woman

Lerato Sengadi (l) was punched during a heated argument with Hannington Kuteesa (r)
A housemate has been evicted from Big Brother Africa for punching a female contestant, following criticism from women's rights activists.

South African producers had initially allowed Hannington Kuteesa to remain on the show, despite his assault on Lerato Sengadi on Tuesday.

Ms Sengadi's family had planned a protest to demand his removal.

Activists had said letting him remain could perpetuate the belief that African men had the right to hit women.

TV company M-Net had told Mr Kuteesa, from Uganda, to apologise to South African Ms Sengadi during one of their recordings.

It should have happened sooner - the incident happened on Tuesday"

Wendy Isaacs
People Opposing Women Abuse
It also provided counselling to both contestants.

But on Friday, the housemates in Johannesburg were told that after "very careful consideration and consultation", Mr Kuteesa had been evicted.

Big Brother said he had "anger problems" and advised him to continue seeing a therapist.

Ms Sengadi was also admonished for insulting Mr Kuteesa during a heated argument before the punch was thrown.

She was banned from drinking alcohol and put on dishwashing duties for the remainder of the contest.

'Immoral'
Wendy Isaacs from People Opposing Women Abuse (Powa) welcomed the decision to remove Mr Kuteesa but told the BBC: "It should have happened sooner - the incident happened on Tuesday.

"For the young girl to have been in the same environment for that long is inappropriate.

"We hope that M-Net and such shows now realise that they have a high responsibility to guard against perpetuating stereotypes about women abuse, especially in a society where such abuse is prevalent."

This is the fifth version of Big Brother Africa, which began with 14 contestants from different countries.

It is broadcast across the continent on satellite TV and some terrestrial channels, and is one of the continent's most popular reality TV programmes.

In some countries, politicians and church leaders have called for previous editions to be taken off air, saying it is immoral, pointing in particular to naked shower scenes.

Ajibs
Sep 23, 2010, 06:42 PM
Look at this statement from the PDP. You see women always seem to get special consideration. All nah lip service?


...Also contenders for the office of the president will dole out a total of N11 million naira as nomination fee, that is, N1m for the expression of interest form, while N10 million will be fee for the nomination form itself. All female aspirants at all levels will however not pay a dime for nomination forms but will pay expression of interest fees at all levels. The NEC gave the concession.

ekundayo
Sep 26, 2010, 07:47 AM
Look at this statement from the PDP. You see women always seem to get special consideration. All nah lip service?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:Special Consideration? I just see it as a statement recognizing the fact that IN GENERAL, women getting involved in politics aren't loaded with filthy naira/euros/dollars from drug lords, special interests, powers up North, powers down South,East and West and any manner of wicked, lying power hungry masterminds who want to pull the puppet strings. USUALLY women are much more grass roots and actually trying to make positive changes in the lives of the common everyday people.

The African Continent would be a lot better off if thickheaded, woman beating pre-historic throwbacks weren't lording over all with an iron first.

I mean how do these men keep up with their busy days? Planning coups, takeovers, double-cross coups, ethnic cleansings, rape and conquer war strategies (both men and women, sorry guys, welcome to our world), stoning, hanging and caning of rape victims, adulterous women (but not the man), all that shoveling of stoning pits must work up an appetite but hey! You're "bonding" with your male comrades while you see who can throw the stone that will knock the bitches front teeth out first!! After that, time to go back and slap the wife (wives) silly and into submission if the food isn't prepared properly and on time, later go and check out the underage girls for sale, heck, who needs to pay money? If you have enough clout and a back room where no one can hear her screams (you'll make sure she won't tho) you can just beat the devil out of her and rape her til she dies!( she tempted me with her toes, ankle, eyes, upper arms), the list goes on and on and on....Don't even get me started on India....

N.A.R....it's best to leave this thread in peace...the world is not getting any better. :sad::sad:

Austin
Sep 26, 2010, 09:23 PM
Look at this statement from the PDP. You see women always seem to get special consideration. All nah lip service?

N.A.R,

Good as the PDP idea is, I doubt if will be good enough for our women. What our women will probably consider good is when a special quota - say 50% - of the positions of power is ceeded to them. This is probably a good idea, except for the fact that I personally find it hard to describe it as equitable. And I am also warry of its future effect. But to heck with the future, we are living in the now, lets just enjoy it.

And notice how when it comes to discussing gender equality issues, most women just seem to ramble on and on off point :rolleyes:

Ajibs
Sep 26, 2010, 10:24 PM
...N.A.R....it's best to leave this thread in peace...the world is not getting any better. :sad::sad:

Ah well, I might eventually but i keep getting various things related to this: Now look at these I stumbled on at You tube...

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You know what caught my eye on this clip. Towards the very end at about minutes 3.30 you see two people in suits, a man and woman come in to meet Madam and greet here, note the contrast in the simplicity of her attire and that of her visitors, probably from a Nigerian bank!

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She says: women face the same challenges everywhere...hmmmm really?

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Ajibs
Sep 27, 2010, 12:09 PM
This is how Nigeria will become more gender equal. Women becoming bold enough to fight for a place at the table...


Jang unruffled over Tallen's governorship ambition -Campaign Coordinator
Written by Isaac Shobayo, Jos
Sunday, 26 September 2010

As the deputy governor of Plateau State throws her hat into the ring to square up with her boss, Governor Jonah Jang, in the coming gubernatorial primaries of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), the Director-General, Jang Campaign Organisation, Barrister Danjuma Maina, has stated that her entry into the race is not a threat to Governor Jang.

The deputy governor, Mrs Pauline Tallen obtained nomination form to contest for the gubernatorial primary on the platform of the PDP on Wednesday to the surprise of many people in the state.

Speaking with Sunday Tribune in Jos, the Director- General, Jang Campaign Organisation said that her entry into the race has not altered the chance of the governor picking the ticket of the party.

"We are not surprise by her decision to contest; she has the constitutional right to contest being a citizen of Nigeria, and she has the right to aspire for the position. Whatever informed her decision to contest is personal to her. We welcome her into the race, the more the merrier," he said.

According to him, the primary and the proper election will based on issues and not on primordial sentiments, adding that all those aspiring to govern the state would have to sell themselves to the people and tell them what they had done for the state and about to do.

On the dissolution of the state executives of the party to pave the way for harmonisation, Barrister Maina said in spite of the subsisting court judgement in favour of the Professor Dakum Shown led state executives, the governor and others accepted the dissolution for the interest of peace, stability and progress of Plateau State.

Obugi
Sep 27, 2010, 02:11 PM
NAR,

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for those videos. The stuff from Africa Open For Business I'd already seen and posted on NVS in the Business section that disappeared.

Let me quote Ms Zaccheus, the lawyer in the Event Organizing business:


We women need to stop blaming men...... we need to do what is needed to get things done. ......starting around 4:30 on that video.

I'll tell you this, it's rare you'll meet a hard driving, intelligent, hard working woman who blames men for making life hard for her. They're too busy intelligently surveying their environment to make connections with whatever good men are out there.

Personally I was most impressed by the mother and daughter at Modupe Ltd doing the NBL distribution. I tried to get into that business but couldn't meet the requirements.

Look at those two beautiful African women, directing their mostly male employees. Look how many jobs they're providing. See how humble and practical they are in getting things done. Note what the daughter says about the need for "constant monitoring to know if we're loosing money or making money."

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! These are the beautiful ones that make my heart sing with joy. I exult in their practicality, their drive and self reliance.

The funny thing is, none of this is especially difficult in Nigeria. So the only reason most middle class women have to complain is either they want something for free or they simply don't care enough to put in the work required.

I can speak of the one I know about. Anyone with $30,000 willing to work hard and invest in Nigeria can very likely find a myriad of businesses that will give them a net profit of at least $2,000 per month.....and in the process contribute to employment, knowledge generation and simply do society a service by filling a need in a country where demand for everything vastly outstrips supply.

These are my mothers, these are the Goddesses I worship. These are the deities to whom I've paid my little tithe now and then. I'm on my knees before them, giving thanks for not only incubating life but trying their best to sustain a good life for all of us, men and women alike.

May our people continue to be blessed through women such as these.

Halleluya!

!!! Get Yours !!!
Obugi.

Austin
Sep 27, 2010, 09:34 PM
Now N.A.R., you have to explain yourself. From whence did you get all those videos of women that have obviously been brainwashed by men. I am even suspecting that you have bribed them - just to support your case - as you are one ogbonge money bag. Those women in no way represent the TRUE VOICE of Naija women, se you hear. And only TRUE Naija women know what TRUE gender equality in the country means, okay?:rolleyes:

Well done though! :clap::clap:

Obugi
Sep 27, 2010, 11:23 PM
Austin,


Now N.A.R., you have to explain yourself. From whence did you get all those videos of women that have obviously been brainwashed by men. I am even suspecting that you have bribed them - just to support your case - as you are one ogbonge money bag. Those women in no way represent the TRUE VOICE of Naija women, se you hear. And only TRUE Naija women know what TRUE gender equality in the country means, okay?:rolleyes:

Well done though! :clap::clap:

Me to dey wonder, I suspect say all of them na NAR iyawo dem be.

I wonder what DewDrops would have to say about these women :lol:

Time for me to worship Toto.....my goddess, here I come!

!!! Toto Is Lord !!!
Obugi.

Ajibs
Sep 29, 2010, 10:48 PM
Now N.A.R., you have to explain yourself. From whence did you get all those videos of women that have obviously been brainwashed by men. I am even suspecting that you have bribed them - just to support your case - as you are one ogbonge money bag. Those women in no way represent the TRUE VOICE of Naija women, se you hear. And only TRUE Naija women know what TRUE gender equality in the country means, okay?:rolleyes:

Well done though! :clap::clap:

I have been waiting, but no show. One thing is these videos support the argument that Sisi Eko was making.

Obugi
Sep 30, 2010, 03:53 PM
NAR,


I have been waiting, but no show. One thing is these videos support the argument that Sisi Eko was making.

No be only you o.

At least one could count on Dewdrops for some scintillating comments. I mean, what was all that venting from all these women about their being held down by African men? PMS?

!!! Toto Is Lord !!!
Obugi.

Dewdrops
Oct 17, 2010, 06:05 AM
Austin,



Me to dey wonder, I suspect say all of them na NAR iyawo dem be.

I wonder what DewDrops would have to say about these women :lol:

Time for me to worship Toto.....my goddess, here I come!

!!! Toto Is Lord !!!
Obugi.


I have been waiting, but no show. One thing is these videos support the argument that Sisi Eko was making.

What argument was that? To negate the fact that there is gender inequality in Nigeria or to support the fact that women are making some 'toddler' strides in achieving some measure of financial independence in Nigeria or what? By the way, incase you guys missed it....90% of those women are MARRIED YORUBAS with their businesses being supported by their Otumba husbands. Remove some major cities in Nigeria like Lagos and Abuja ONLY......where are all the others? :rolleyes:

Where are the others from the Northern, Eastern and Southern parts of Nigeria? Or the Nigerian world begins and ends in Lagos? :rolleyes:

Rubbish!



NAR,



No be only you o.

At least one could count on Dewdrops for some scintillating comments. I mean, what was all that venting from all these women about their being held down by African men? PMS?

!!! Toto Is Lord !!!
Obugi.

You berra believe "toto" is lord for real!
What are you calling my name for?
Did you not read what I wrote on this thread?

Una nefa tok wetin dey scatch una. :rolleyes:
E be like say winter don dey hammer una for yonder and y'all are needing some loffin' huh?
Anyway the free toto I am giving out this year is in Abuja Nigeria....so meet me there for Xmas if you want some to celebrate the birth of our lord in 2010. That is how I pay my tithes in kind during Xmas. :2love:

Tomorrow some bush babes go say na 'clandestine'. I don de announce am now ooooh!

Make una see me see wahala with all these founding fadas and modas on this NVS oh?
Chineke God!