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forshow3
Dec 25, 2008, 12:14 AM
Yar Adua govt promote 8 northerner to General in army 4 southerner (67%)


Of the 12 army general promoted 8 are from the north.
Maj-General SU Abdulkadir,
Maj-General AM Jibril,
Major General Sarkin Yakin Bello,
Maj-General AU Dambatta.
Maj-General Bala Usara,
Major-General BM. Mongunu,
Maj-General BB Adingih,
Maj-General AK Amao,
Maj-General BC Azurumwa
Major-General Essien Bassey
Major-General CE Airhiavbere,

No Smoking
Dec 25, 2008, 01:19 PM
Ehn, tell us about the full strength of da geo-political spread of the Officers Corps covering Army, Air Force and Navy.

Lalakokofefe
Dec 25, 2008, 06:26 PM
Yar Adua govt promote 8 northerner to General in army 4 southerner (67%)


Of the 12 army general promoted 8 are from the north.
Maj-General SU Abdulkadir,
Maj-General AM Jibril,
Major General Sarkin Yakin Bello,
Maj-General AU Dambatta.
Maj-General Bala Usara,
Major-General BM. Mongunu,
Maj-General BB Adingih,
Maj-General AK Amao,
Maj-General BC Azurumwa
Major-General Essien Bassey
Major-General CE Airhiavbere,


We really need to stop seeing everything in terms of tribe.!!!! Gosh ......

Enforcer
Dec 25, 2008, 06:41 PM
Where is the evidence in your report of the state of origin of these officers?

Idahota
Dec 25, 2008, 06:56 PM
Where is the evidence in your report of the state of origin of these officers?

Even though I don't share forshow tribal interpretation of the promotion, I think the names clearly shows what part of the country majority of them come from Enforcer.

Enforcer
Dec 25, 2008, 07:26 PM
Even though I don't share forshow tribal interpretation of the promotion, I think the names clearly shows what part of the country majority of them come from Enforcer.

Idahota

Most of the names you will call "Northern" could easily be people from Edo State (Edo North).

Idahota
Dec 25, 2008, 07:44 PM
Idahota

Most of the names you will call "Northern" could easily be people from Edo State (Edo North).

People from Edo north do not bear names like "Sarkin Yakin Bello", moreover, going by past precedents, no 2 to 3 officers will be promoted at ago from just edo north. I can bet you anything on that being an impossibility

Auspicious
Dec 25, 2008, 07:53 PM
+

Is not fear - is not fear at all - period!

How Northern General are promote more than Southern General? This President did not know how to perfom duty, because if he know, he won't not promote 8 General of North more than 4 General of South - period!

Imagine? So if Northern General are perfom beter than Southern General nko? So what? Promotion not have to be about valor; geography representing is more important than qualify! Even, my google map, cannot prove it - period!

In fact, PERIOD! :rant:

AuspY.

No Smoking
Dec 25, 2008, 08:49 PM
Auspy bobo,
Yer turkey been go down da wrong pipe?? :rolleyes: :lol:

forshow3
Dec 25, 2008, 08:59 PM
Una go make me laugh fall down for here, idahota, you go kill person. so Sarkin Yakin Bello is not from edo state, what if him change is state of origin.

Una no take God say 4 dey. them say, he wanted to promote only northerner, na last minute them include the 4 names o. Even one of the name , I am not sure if he a southerner or northerner. I just for God sake put the name for south. If he be Northerner na 9 northener general to 3 southerner general.

This are the northerner we don see for satellite pictures that are minority in nigeria... So minority take over the army. I don laugh, my belle dey pain me.

forshow3
Dec 25, 2008, 09:14 PM
African are stupid. I just check somalia. They claim a population of 60 or 70 million. Do you believe that the population of somali is not up to 15 million people. There is nothing , i mean nothing there.

No Smoking
Dec 25, 2008, 09:27 PM
Di list na only for promoshun, from Brigadier-General to Major-General. Give us da list for all da senior officers {plus S.O.O} wey dey the Armed Forces, so we fit get proper basis for comparison.

Auspicious
Dec 25, 2008, 11:17 PM
+

I wonder what popolation of lice in my left harm-pit is...

I mean, since hair in my left harm-pit is is denser than right harm-pit..

Lice in my left harm-pit will be more than my right harm-pit, right?

Wait, make ah go fin' Forshow make eim come take goole find am..

AuspY.

NextLevel
Dec 26, 2008, 01:05 AM
Una go make me laugh fall down for here, idahota, you go kill person. so Sarkin Yakin Bello is not from edo state, what if him change is state of origin.

Una no take God say 4 dey. them say, he wanted to promote only northerner, na last minute them include the 4 names o. Even one of the name , I am not sure if he a southerner or northerner. I just for God sake put the name for south. If he be Northerner na 9 northener general to 3 southerner general.

This are the northerner we don see for satellite pictures that are minority in nigeria... So minority take over the army. I don laugh, my belle dey pain me.


But you still have not shown us how many southerners could have been promoted based on rank. You also have not shown us that the army is equally constituted of southerners and northerners, making this a clear rejection of equal representation/federal character.

Namio
Dec 26, 2008, 01:36 AM
NextLevel,

Please answer your own question. For how long have you been a Nigerian? Hide your face in the sand and continue to play Yorubapepper.

Merry Xmas.



But you still have not shown us how many southerners could have been promoted based on rank. You also have not shown us that the army is equally constituted of southerners and northerners, making this a clear rejection of equal representation/federal character.

charles4u
Dec 26, 2008, 11:06 AM
Na wa o....whats Nigeria becoming when I read the total budgets they have spent 2008 and for 2009 will be about $30billion and nothing to show for it (by 2011 will be a total of about $65billion), poverty increased to 60% and the economy is still getting worst. Now the Hausas are promoting themselves to power while the main oil region citizens are getting poorer and dieing of hunger.

Should we assume God as left Nigeria and even all this our pastors making name are just lairs cus dont they see all this things before they build universities that collects sch fees of N300.000 per yr ?...am sorry for saying all this here but am just tired of all this mess together..

Today this...tomorrow another thing...all corruption that never ends.

No Smoking
Dec 26, 2008, 01:54 PM
NextLevel,

Please answer your own question. For how long have you been a Nigerian? Hide your face in the sand and continue to play Yorubapepper.

Merry Xmas.

The likes of you and forshow jump up and down to persuade everybody that your ethnic group is being cheated.

The rational thing to sustain such an argument is to provide an overall picture of the situation. Not rocket science, ma man.

Ewuro
Dec 26, 2008, 02:50 PM
But you still have not shown us how many southerners could have been promoted based on rank. You also have not shown us that the army is equally constituted of southerners and northerners, making this a clear rejection of equal representation/federal character.
NextLevel,
We all like a situation where we do not have to worry on the ethnicity of those who get appointed or promoted. People can accuse Obasanjo of many ills, tribalism was not part of it. You only need to look at his appointments in his cabinet, civil service and the armed forces. Most of the service chiefs were never Yoruba like him. Even an ADC, Late Giwa-Amu was from sabon-Gida Ora. The ministers of finance, defence and many high profile ministry were non-Yoruba. as we know it, this is not because of want of Yorubamen to man any department, civil or military.

However, the nature of appointments, promotions and even investments by UMYA calls into question his sincerity about issues of federal character. I am not talking about the recent army promotions. All the past northern rulers since Shagari are guilty of this.

Triple Palaver
Dec 26, 2008, 04:33 PM
NextLevel,
We all like a situation where we do not have to worry on the ethnicity of those who get appointed or promoted. People can accuse Obasanjo of many ills, tribalism was not part of it. You only need to look at his appointments in his cabinet, civil service and the armed forces. Most of the service chiefs were never Yoruba like him. Even an ADC, Late Giwa-Amu was from sabon-Gida Ora. The ministers of finance, defence and many high profile ministry were non-Yoruba. as we know it, this is not because of want of Yorubamen to man any department, civil or military.

However, the nature of appointments, promotions and even investments by UMYA calls into question his sincerity about issues of federal character. I am not talking about the recent army promotions. All the past northern rulers since Shagari are guilty of this.

Prove it!!

forshow3
Dec 26, 2008, 06:20 PM
charles you ask the right question. you see, i tell many nigeria pastor would go to hell. this is the truth.

the word of God says we would give account before God. what would a pastor tell God when he see injustice done to other and keep quiet.

let me put it this way. A famour nigeria pastor with thousand of church parishes dies.. when he got to heaven he was lead to the gate of hell. He quickly shouted. i reject this place in jesus. satan agent mock him .. you self, you can decieve men. do you think you can decieve God. He demanded to see God to state his cases.

They lead him to God... And God ask him a question, mr preach when i was oppress you went to those who oppress me and you drank and collected money from them. Even some of them give you title like "God man of God 2008". but i was still been oppress, why did i make you see the king. God answer himself. So that you can tell him he is wicked and my people are suffering.

When God lift a pastor up , it is not because he want him to collect money from people or collect title from head of state. It is for the purpose to speak God heart.

Are nigerian pastors speaking for God. the answer is NO.. You see me too , I am a sinner.. and may God forgive me for my own sin. To whom much is given God demand more. I am talking to myself and others people who claim they are men of God.

God forgive all of us

If you see injustice and your heart does not make your mouth to speak out, then know that man heart is dead to the truth.

there is a yoruba song.

That the last days of my life, God dont let it be like saul
Who spoke to God and later spoke to the devil.

Egbehi aiye mi
Ma je ko da bi ti saul
To ba lorun soro to.
To tun was ba Oku so

charles4u
Dec 26, 2008, 06:39 PM
charles you ask the right question. you see, i tell many nigeria pastor would go to hell. this is the truth.

the word of God says we would give account before God. what would a pastor tell God when he see injustice done to other and keep quiet.

let me put it this way. A famour nigeria pastor with thousand of church parishes dies.. when he got to heaven he was lead to the gate of hell. He quickly shouted. i reject this place in jesus. satan agent mock him .. you self, you can decieve men. do you think you can decieve God. He demanded to see God to state his cases.

They lead him to God... And God ask him a question, mr preach when i was oppress you went to those who oppress me and you drank and collected money from them. Even some of them give you title like "God man of God 2008". but i was still been oppress, why did i make you see the king. God answer himself. So that you can tell him he is wicked and my people are suffering.

When God lift a pastor up , it is not because he want him to collect money from people or collect title from head of state. It is for the purpose to speak God heart.

Are nigerian pastors speaking for God. the answer is NO.. You see me too , I am a sinner.. and may God forgive me for my own sin. To whom much is given God demand more. I am talking to myself and others people who claim they are men of God.

God forgive all of us

there is a yoruba song.

That the last days of my life, God dont let it be like saul
Who spoke to God and later spoke to the devil.

Egbehi aiye mi
Ma je ko da bi ti saul
To ba lorun soro to.
To tun was ba Oku so


Thanks so muhc for the enlightment, well its just so funny and some people keep falling for all this things..church dey collect 300.000 per yr for sch fee and some people dey die of hunger. I know they cant satisfy everybody but nothing shows they are helping instead collect titles and people just waste there time struggling to see this so called pastors.

Anyway, make we no change the topic....Nigeria Nigeria Nigeria...when they just get to the top, they mess up and forget the poor and helpless people. maybe hausas we rule us full time sooner than we think.

forshow3
Dec 26, 2008, 10:46 PM
No problem my brother, the truth is more than 50% of nigeria born again christian are going to hell. thier pastor may not tell the truth. Because in nigeria church preaching is about how they can manipulate them to give and give.

You see the word of God says the little upright man have is more than the plenty of the wicked. This pastor drive Jeep or BMW . Igboman says wetin concern me.

You see people in nigeria believe that prayer is what will solve thier financial problem. That not true. It is good govt. And we can not have that under this structure we have in nigeria. And you see pastor speak about the evil in our society no, everybody is scare of EFCC. They now make EFCC thier God.

Yorubas says which day Maku ( no die) ko ni shall ku. which this mean. Is a child they gave a name , do not Die, which day would do not die, would not die.

Me i do not look up to any man of God. I look up to God. Only God is my hope. make i no forget I say me too be sinner...

dem
Dec 26, 2008, 11:06 PM
African are stupid. I just check somalia. They claim a population of 60 or 70 million. Do you believe that the population of somali is not up to 15 million people. There is nothing , i mean nothing there.

WTF????????

Though in Nigeria (and particularly in the military) anything goes; however, promotions are based largely on seniority and, infrequently, on valour.

charles4u
Dec 27, 2008, 11:28 AM
I'm sure the last thing that will happen is Nigeria will split apart and I support it.

maxsiollun
Dec 30, 2008, 08:12 PM
The middle belt areas of the north like Plateau, Tiv, Igala, Idoma and Zaria axis produce the bulk of the army's infantry. The current Chief of Army Staff Lt-Gen Dambazau and former Chief of Army Staff and Chief of Defence Staff Gen Martin Luther Agwai are also part of the Zaria-Kaduna axis.

To understand just how much these areas dominate the military. Look at the following list of officers from that area:

Domkat Bali, Jerry Useni, Joshua Dogonyaro, Joe Garba, John Shagaya, Yakubu Rimdan, Bernard Banfa are all from Langtang (just ONE town!).

Then you add Danjuma, Malu, Akahan, David Mark, Gowon, Martin Adamu, Bisalla, who are all from the middle belt too.

Ewuro
Dec 30, 2008, 08:36 PM
The middle belt areas of the north like Plateau, Tiv, Igala, Idoma and Zaria axis produce the bulk of the army's infantry. The current Chief of Army Staff Lt-Gen Dambazau and former Chief of Army Staff and Chief of Defence Staff Gen Martin Luther Agwai are also part of the Zaria-Kaduna axis.

To understand just how much these areas dominate the military. Look at the following list of officers from that area:

Domkat Bali, Jerry Useni, Joshua Dogonyaro, Joe Garba, John Shagaya, Yakubu Rimdan, Bernard Banfa are all from Langtang (just ONE town!).

Then you add Danjuma, Malu, Akahan, David Mark, Gowon, Martin Adamu, Bisalla, who are all from the middle belt too.

You name generals who were awarded public posts. Were their promotions due to merit? There were many generals from the south who are only called into action when UN for instance needs somebody from Nigeria with proven military credentials. You never hear about them because they are by-passed when it came to political appointments in the military. The military honours from their graduation from NDA and other senior military courses are disregarded when it came to political appointments. It is where you came from that matters. Imagine IBB and Abacha never passed PSC, a major qualification to rising beyond a Lt.Col. Yet they became generals and head of states. Is it any wonder that majourity of the generals you have named were military mediocres, good for coup making, not effective in executing a conventional war or a legitimate standard military operation.

DaBishop
Dec 30, 2008, 08:39 PM
The middle belt areas of the north like Plateau, Tiv, Igala, Idoma and Zaria axis produce the bulk of the army's infantry. The current Chief of Army Staff Lt-Gen Dambazau and former Chief of Army Staff and Chief of Defence Staff Gen Martin Luther Agwai are also part of the Zaria-Kaduna axis.

To understand just how much these areas dominate the military. Look at the following list of officers from that area:

Domkat Bali, Jerry Useni, Joshua Dogonyaro, Joe Garba, John Shagaya, Yakubu Rimdan, Bernard Banfa are all from Langtang (just ONE town!).

Then you add Danjuma, Malu, Akahan, David Mark, Gowon, Martin Adamu, Bisalla, who are all from the middle belt too.

Very true...

Just like in the US with the military families and the legacy of service (think John McCain), for some areas, it becomes a rite of passage to serve...

Someone's Grand Pops served in da army and faught in Burma, his grand pop's first born son served as an officer and was injured the naija civil war, his uncle-in-law was serving in da army...when he was in college, there was a pull and a push to make him serve...called legacy recruitment.

Not surprising that some have a history of soldiering while others give it a wide berth. You cannot opt for academia, dominate it, then complain those who dominate the officer corp are being promoted.

Ewuro
Dec 30, 2008, 09:10 PM
Very true...

Just like in the US with the military families and the legacy of service (think John McCain), for some areas, it becomes a rite of passage to serve...

Someone's Grand Pops served in da army and faught in Burma, his grand pop's first born son served as an officer and was injured the naija civil war, his uncle-in-law was serving in da army...when he was in college, there was a pull and a push to make him serve...called legacy recruitment.

Not surprising that some have a history of soldiering while others give it a wide berth. You cannot opt for academia, dominate it, then complain those who dominate the officer corp are being promoted.

No, not true...

There are evidences that the southerners were more in the officer corp before and immediately after the civil war. Remember the Maj. General Ironsi, Brig. Ademulegun, Ogundipe and Zai Mamalari from bornu being the top generals. Even the Colonels were more Southerners. Up till 1979 the old Ondo state had more generals than any other state parading people like Adebayo, Bajowa, Olutoye, and the one who was a federal minister of finance when Obasanjo was head of state and a few more I cannot recall their names. Coup making and tthe attendant indiscipline was responsible for the disproportionate representation of Southerners in political appointments.

DaBishop
Dec 30, 2008, 09:35 PM
No, not true...

There are evidences that the southerners were more in the officer corp before and immediately after the civil war. Remember the Maj. General Ironsi, Brig. Ademulegun, Ogundipe and Zai Mamalari from bornu being the top generals. Even the Colonels were more Southerners. Up till 1979 the old Ondo state had more generals than any other state parading people like Adebayo, Bajowa, Olutoye, and the one who was a federal minister of finance when Obasanjo was head of state and a few more I cannot recall their names. Coup making and tthe attendant indiscipline was responsible for the disproportionate representation of Southerners in political appointments.

And sir,
Do you remember that power-play within the military depleted them, as it did the middle-belters in success of and failed coups...in executions, retirements...in large numbers?

maxsiollun
Dec 30, 2008, 09:43 PM
Ewuro, what "public post" did Joe Akahan, Yakubu Rimdan, Dambazau, Agwai and Martin Adamu hold?

As for foreign peacekeeping ops. Here is a summary of the commanders of Nigerian peacekeeping ops over the years:

General Martin Luther Agwai
Lt-Gen Joshua Ogonyaro
Lt-Gen Chikadibia Isaac Obiakor
Lt-Gen SVL Malu
Lieutenant General Joseph Owonibi
Maj-Gen Edward Unimna
Maj-Gen Festus Okonkwo
Major General JTU Aguiyi Ironsi
Major General Chris Garuba
Major General Ekundayo Opaleye
Major General Geoffrey Ejiga
Major General S Iliya
Major General Collins Ihekire
Major General Rufus Kupolati
Major General Ishaya Bakut
Major General John Mark Inienger
Major General Timothy Shelpidi
Major General Felix Mujakperuo
Major General Gabriel Kpamber
Major General Mohammed Magoro
Brig John Shagaya
Brig Adetunji Olurin


Look at that list and tell me if there is a regional bias toward the north or south. Of the 22 officers on the list, 11 are from the north and 11 from the south - 50:50! Thanks.




You name generals who were awarded public posts. Were their promotions due to merit? There were many generals from the south who are only called into action when UN for instance needs somebody from Nigeria with proven military credentials. You never hear about them because they are by-passed when it came to political appointments in the military. The military honours from their graduation from NDA and other senior military courses are disregarded when it came to political appointments. It is where you came from that matters. Imagine IBB and Abacha never passed PSC, a major qualification to rising beyond a Lt.Col. Yet they became generals and head of states. Is it any wonder that majourity of the generals you have named were military mediocres, good for coup making, not effective in executing a conventional war or a legitimate standard military operation.

NextLevel
Dec 30, 2008, 09:45 PM
No one has answered my question - all I'm getting is rigmarole. So I'll break it down.

1) What is the army's constitution by ethnic group?
2) What is the army's constitution by ethnic group at each rank?
3) How many people from each ethnic group were eligible for this kind of promotion?
4) What percentage of each ethnic group that was eligible for promotion got promoted?

These are the first-base questions you need to answer before you accuse anyone of bias. They don't prove bias, but if they are not answered, I will accuse Nigeria of being a biased country. Why are there more Black people in it than of other races?

Osibinaebi
Dec 30, 2008, 09:46 PM
No, not true...

There are evidences that the southerners were more in the officer corp before and immediately after the civil war. Remember the Maj. General Ironsi, Brig. Ademulegun, Ogundipe and Zai Mamalari from bornu being the top generals. Even the Colonels were more Southerners. Up till 1979 the old Ondo state had more generals than any other state parading people like Adebayo, Bajowa, Olutoye, and the one who was a federal minister of finance when Obasanjo was head of state and a few more I cannot recall their names. Coup making and tthe attendant indiscipline was responsible for the disproportionate representation of Southerners in political appointments.


What about the other ranks, The case is that the more educated southerners never saw the Military to be worthwhile and infact it is should not be worthwhile if not for the corruptness of military officers when they came to power. By any roll call or account, the North hold the aces in the Military. Your insinuating that the southern officers were more competent is also insulting to the entire military because this you cannot prove, but can only allege. For every southern Officers you name, using any criteria, the North will name two, whether it is corruption or competency, They have them there:D:D. Afterall, you know is OBJ joined the military out of frustration which is the case for majority of the southerners that were in the military

maxsiollun
Dec 30, 2008, 09:50 PM
It is impossible to answer your questions by reference to ethnic groups.
However it can be answered by reference to geographic regions or states because each state has a quota for officer admission into the NA. Traditionally northern officers tend to dominate the army's teeth arms such as infantry, armour, artillery and signals. Southerners typically enlist in specialised units such as engineering, education, and the medical corps.


No one has answered my question - all I'm getting is rigmarole. So I'll break it down.

1) What is the army's constitution by ethnic group?
2) What is the army's constitution by ethnic group at each rank?
3) How many people from each ethnic group were eligible for this kind of promotion?
4) What percentage of each ethnic group that was eligible for promotion got promoted?

These are the first-base questions you need to answer before you accuse anyone of bias. They don't prove bias, but if they are not answered, I will accuse Nigeria of being a biased country. Why are there more Black people in it than of other races?

Ewuro
Dec 30, 2008, 10:46 PM
And sir,
Do you remember that power-play within the military depleted them, as it did the middle-belters in success of and failed coups...in executions, retirements...in large numbers?

Thank you, that was why I put a date to it, saying before 1979. Remember, Lt Gen Alani Akiriande took over from Danjuma as the army chief of staff. Shagari made him Chief of general staff after six months to pave way for Wushishi. Since Buhari took over we have seen many bright officers from the South relegated to the background.

It is not every southerner who joined the officers corp who did so out of frustration in those days. People like Ojukwu, Oluwole Rotimi, Late Banjo, Ifeajuna, late Major Ademoyega and more were graduates who had opprtunities elsewhere.

Buhari, IBB, Abacha and Abdusalam promoted Hausa/Fulani interests in the army. This why competent Southerners were left at a big disadvantage. .

DaBishop
Dec 30, 2008, 10:56 PM
Thank you, that was why I put a date to it, saying before 1979. Remember, Lt Gen Alani Akiriande took over from Danjuma as the army chief of staff. Shagari made him Chief of general staff after six months to pave way for Wushishi. Since Buhari took over we have seen many bright officers from the South relegated to the background.

It is not every southerner who joined the officers corp who did so out of frustration in those days. People like Ojukwu, Oluwole Rotimi, Late Banjo, Ijeajuna, late Major Ademoyega and more were graduates who had opprtunities elsewhere.

Buhari, IBB, Abacha and Abdusalam promoted Hausa/Fulani interests in the army. This why competent Southerners were left at a big disadvantage. .

Sorry sir,
You need research and get a list of the officers, who have left or been forced out of the military for coup/political reasons before you can make ya case for ya ethnic tribe...what does 'competent southerner' mean in the army? Their definitions may be different from yours.

In even orientation camp of Youth Corp at Ede with a national spread in a simulation of 'Boot Camp' you could tell those who had the inclination to bear the para-military 'humiliation' of boot camp and remain in good standing. Much education sometimes is a clog to true military obedience as demonstrated by bloated egos, even here. For some, it was easier to serve in servility than most...check out where they came from.

Ewuro
Dec 30, 2008, 11:04 PM
Ewuro, what "public post" did Joe Akahan, Yakubu Rimdan, Dambazau, Agwai and Martin Adamu hold?

As for foreign peacekeeping ops. Here is a summary of the commanders of Nigerian peacekeeping ops over the years:

General Martin Luther Agwai
Lt-Gen Joshua Ogonyaro
Lt-Gen Chikadibia Isaac Obiakor
Lt-Gen SVL Malu
Lieutenant General Joseph Owonibi
Maj-Gen Edward Unimna
Maj-Gen Festus Okonkwo
Major General JTU Aguiyi Ironsi
Major General Chris Garuba
Major General Ekundayo Opaleye
Major General Geoffrey Ejiga
Major General S Iliya
Major General Collins Ihekire
Major General Rufus Kupolati
Major General Ishaya Bakut
Major General John Mark Inienger
Major General Timothy Shelpidi
Major General Felix Mujakperuo
Major General Gabriel Kpamber
Major General Mohammed Magoro
Brig John Shagaya
Brig Adetunji Olurin


Look at that list and tell me if there is a regional bias toward the north or south. Of the 22 officers on the list, 11 are from the north and 11 from the south - 50:50! Thanks.

The list is not complete,
I remember Maj. General Cyril Nweze. If yo look at the list also you will notice very brilliant Generals like Agwai, Owonibi, Oknokwo, Unimma, Muajkpero and Obiakor never got a political appointment because they were sidelined. Whereas most of the others were governors or ministers or both at one time of the other. Obiakor was well cited with real miliatry accomplishment which enables him into a UN job at the moment.

Ewuro
Dec 30, 2008, 11:12 PM
Sorry sir,
You need research and get a list of the officers, who have left or been forced out of the military for coup/political reasons before you can make ya case for ya ethnic tribe...what does 'competent southerner' mean in the army? Their definitions may be different from yours.

In even orientation camp of Youth Corp at Ede with a national spread in a simulation of 'Boot Camp' you could tell those who had the inclination to bear the para-military 'humiliation' of boot camp and remain in good standing. Much education sometimes is a clog to true military obedience as demonstrated by bloated egos, even here. For some, it was easier to serve in servility than most...check out where they came from.

In the the British and US armies, where we borrowed most of our army traditions, officers are well educated to sometimes Phd level. Most of the British and US generals are graduates in many fields. By the time yo become a full colonel in the British tradition, your role becomes strategic. So you need sound intellectual ability to fulfil your military role. It is no more your physical ability but your brain power, using intelligence to plan and execute military operations according to the brief handed to you by the your commanders or political leaders.

A number of those people we call generals in our army would not make it to the officer grade in Britain or US. There was no way our abacha would make a sergeant anyway. The shame is we have a few of those high calibre officer with sound military and academic credentials who were derided as bukuru and not allowed to progress even among northerners.

maxsiollun
Dec 31, 2008, 12:41 AM
You are wrong again Ewuro:

1) The list IS complete and includes all Nigerian peacekeeping ops commanders since independence in 1960. Of those 22 commanders, 11 are from the north, and 11 from the south, Cyril Iweze was the ECOMOG Chief of Staff. He was not the commander of that mission. The mission's commander was the Ghanaian officer General Arnold Quainoo. The Chief of Staff is NOT the commander.

2) Since you think the list is incomplete, please list the missing officers then.

3) Even if we add Iweze to the list, that would make 12 southern commanders and 11 northern commanders.


The list is not complete,
I remember Maj. General Cyril Nweze. If yo look at the list also you will notice very brilliant Generals like Agwai, Owonibi, Oknokwo, Unimma, Muajkpero and Obiakor never got a political appointment because they were sidelined. Whereas most of the others were governors or ministers or both at one time of the other. Obiakor was well cited with real miliatry accomplishment which enables him into a UN job at the moment.

maxsiollun
Dec 31, 2008, 12:42 AM
Interesting, so you think two Gwari officers and a Kanuri "promoted Hausa/Fulani interests"?

:rolleyes:



Buhari, IBB, Abacha and Abdusalam promoted Hausa/Fulani interests in the army. This why competent Southerners were left at a big disadvantage. .

DaBishop
Dec 31, 2008, 01:03 AM
In the the British and US armies, where we borrowed most of our army traditions, officers are well educated to sometimes Phd level. Most of the British and US generals are graduates in many fields. By the time yo become a full colonel in the British tradition, your role becomes strategic. So you need sound intellectual ability to fulfil your military role. It is no more your physical ability but your brain power, using intelligence to plan and execute military operations according to the brief handed to you by the your commanders or political leaders.

A number of those people we call generals in our army would not make it to the officer grade in Britain or US. There was no way our abacha would make a sergeant anyway. The shame is we have a few of those high calibre officer with sound military and academic credentials who were derided as bukuru and not allowed to progress even among northerners.

Know what obtains in Naija before you quickly bring in UK and USA. Every military has its history, and yes, politics.

We are writing in the context of Naija Military traditions. I do not necessary support them. But as a realist, I tell about the naija military tradition and why the so-called more intellectual may not have a say...would speaking dogun turenchi or servile obedience help you progress with a Jeri-Boy, or Abacha or even Donkat Bali?...but like you, I digress...

why did we have IBB boys, Abacha Boys and Langtang Mafia?...(I am not saying they are good, just that they existed.

Felix
Dec 31, 2008, 01:41 AM
Nothing wey we no go drag for this NVS...So what is the debate here? ??That what we have in Naijeiriya since 1970 is a a seriously detrablised Nigerian army and not a Northern Nigeria military occupying garrisons sccattered all over the place abi??? Promotions are based solely on merit and every bright Nigerian qualified is sure to be recruited and promoted accordingly even if his name is Nzeogwu Ojukwu no be so??? :twisted: I no blame una. That this "one Nigeria military" scam has gone on unchallenged for almost 5 decades now has a way of making the perpetrators see themselves as some kind of invicible semi gods with the super natural powers to fool and plunder at will..Keep one thing in mind though;It usually unravels just when you start to think you have it all wrapped effectively together...

DaBishop
Dec 31, 2008, 02:17 AM
Nothing wey we no go drag for this NVS...So what is the debate here? ??That what we have in Naijeiriya since 1970 is a a seriously detrablised Nigerian army and not a Northern Nigeria military occupying garrisons sccattered all over the place abi??? Promotions are based solely on merit and every bright Nigerian qualified is sure to be recruited and promoted accordingly even if his name is Nzeogwu Ojukwu no be so??? :twisted: I no blame una. That this "one Nigeria military" scam has gone on unchallenged for almost 5 decades now has a way of making the perpetrators see themselves as some kind of invicible semi gods with the super natural powers to fool and plunder at will..Keep one thing in mind though;It usually unravels just when you start to think you have it all wrapped effectively together...

What we are saying sir is...

You can test this in research...Go to the various ethnic areas, shoot a gun in the market-place...you will see different reactions...some are conditioned to fight while others just wanna live, anyhow.

Some no wan die.

With a highly politicized army...I mean a coup-making army, they took power by crookish means, the ones that had the gumption always fought, when they lost, they paid with their lives, when they won, they received the fruits thereof...That is the history of the Nigerian Army.

Most of da middle-belt officers for instance, were retired in droves first during the attempted coup that claimed the life of MM and then during the time of the evil genuis, who was not content with retiring them, killed some in the C-130 plane.

So its been dirty, and we have borne the brunt in the middle-belt, so what is ya complaint?

Felix
Dec 31, 2008, 02:38 AM
What we are saying sir is...

You can test this in reasearch...Go to the various ethnic areas, shoot a gun in the market-place...you will see different reactions...some are conditioned to fight while others just wanna live, anyhow.

Some no wan die.

With a highly politicized army...I mean a coup-making army, they took power by crookish means, the ones that had the gumption always fought, when they lost, they paid with their lives, when they won, they received the fruits thereof...That is the history of the Nigerian Army.

Most of da middle-belt officers for instance, were retired in droves first during the attempted coup that claimed the life of MM and then during the time of the evil genuis, who was not content with retiring them, killed some in the C-130 plane.

So its been dirty, and we have borne the brunt in the middle-belt, so what is ya complaint?

I dont want to beleive that somehow you are insinuating that progroms, genocides and massacers are great signs of village power:confused1 , I thought those are supposed to be signs of endtime ma Bishop....I agree with you;Some of the alliances that led to the present sitaution are starting to hunt all the blood thirsty groups involved and that , frankly is a sad commentary...Take a look at June 12 and Jos.., those are what you get when you show a remarkable comfort to dine with hungry hyenas..By the way Zaki Biam market had a lot of "gun shots in the air" and ma people dived for the nearest rainforest..,,Is that the type of reaction you were talking about?:lol:

Bill Carson
Dec 31, 2008, 03:09 AM
Yaradua Is just setting himself up for coup big time...... Make Northerner a General the next step Is how to become President, sorry Head of State. Make Southerner (this days Including poor Middlebelt) General the next step Is preparation for retirement.

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 10:16 AM
Know what obtains in Naija before you quickly bring in UK and USA. Every military has its history, and yes, politics.

We are writing in the context of Naija Military traditions. I do not necessary support them. But as a realist, I tell about the naija military tradition and why the so-called more intellectual may not have a say...would speaking dogun turenchi or servile obedience help you progress with a Jeri-Boy, or Abacha or even Donkat Bali?...but like you, I digress...

why did we have IBB boys, Abacha Boys and Langtang Mafia?...(I am not saying they are good, just that they existed.

I was just trying to disprove your statement that certain people from certain areas, the north, who are no so educated make better soldiers. No they make lawless hooligans who do not care about the nation but always ready to be used for sectional interests. For instance, Murtala was known to have used his influence to lead northern officers to mass murder escapade of Ibo and other easterners. When he was given a military command as the GOC second division, he failed to deliver. His troops were rounded in what is refered to as Ogbunike and many of his men were lost, killed. He was an incompetent officer.

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 10:28 AM
Interesting, so you think two Gwari officers and a Kanuri "promoted Hausa/Fulani interests"?

:rolleyes:

I am saying Obasanjo did not look at ethnicity before appointing service chiefs. He appointed on merit. His appointments, military or civil, cut accross all the ethnic groups, the Igbo, the deltans, Southern zarians of the katafs, Udoma, hausa, Fulani and even his Yoruba kinsmen were less prominent in his military appointments. His ministers of defence were even northerners. YA has reversed all these appointing mostly northerners to sensitive military positions.

Osibinaebi
Dec 31, 2008, 01:25 PM
I am saying Obasanjo did not look at ethnicity before appointing service chiefs. He appointed on merit. His appointments, military or civil, cut accross all the ethnic groups, the Igbo, the deltans, Southern zarians of the katafs, Udoma, hausa, Fulani and even his Yoruba kinsmen were less prominent in his military appointments. His ministers of defence were even northerners. YA has reversed all these appointing mostly northerners to sensitive military positions.

haaaa, haba, if OBJ appointed men based on merit, that meant they were appointed based on seniority which is a military tradition, so how has UMYA erred in this respect. Can anyone prove or show us a promotion that was not based on promotion. i also want people to remember that the 18 generals that perished in the plane crash created some vacuum that have been presumably filled by seniority. OBJ ministers of defense were equally Northerners, from Danjuma to Kwankwaso, or is it the ceremonial Minster of states in defense that is the contention? so UMYA is maintaining the status quo. Are those appointed today not Nigerians and why don't they deserve such appointments. It will make a good debate if facts of sensitive positions in the Military is listed out and placed side by side with appointees during OBJ and UMYA. There no rot that can be pinned on UMYA that OBJ did not either engineered or initiated eventhough some have back fired, but OBJ still carries the cross

afaukwu
Dec 31, 2008, 01:41 PM
Navy promotes 135 officers, gets five new Rear Admirals
From Madu Onuorah, Abuja

THE Nigerian Navy yesterday announced the promotion of 135 officers just as the Chief of Naval Staff, Vice Admiral Ishaya Ibrahim, said they must brace up to the added challenges of militancy in the Niger Delta region and the protection of the Gulf of Guinea.

Ibrahim said they must provide "absolute protection of resources" of the nation against the militants in the Niger Delta whom he called "unbecoming elements against our nation."

He charged them to provide the maximum security required for economic activities, safety of ships and the protection of the nation's maritime environment.

A breakdown of the 135 officers promoted shows that five were elevated from Commodores to Rear Admirals, 30 Captains were promoted to Commodores, 44 Commanders were promoted to Captains while 56 Lieutenant Commanders were promoted to the rank of Commanders.

Rear Admirals are the Army equivalent of Major Generals, Commodores are the equivalent of Brigadier Generals, Captains are the equivalent of Colonels, Commanders the equivalent of Lieutenant Colonels and Lieutenant Commanders the equivalent of Majors.

Of the total number promoted, 25 were decorated at the Naval Headquarters, Abuja. Among those promoted Rear Admirals are Thomas Jonah Lokoson, Albert Afolabi Macaulay, Dele Joseph Ezeoba, Dutse James Boer and Salisu Mohammed. The new Commodores include Andrew S. Bira, Abbah Augustine Omale, Samuel Ilesanmi Alade, Adebowale Andrew Dacosta, Peter Oraka, Mauzu M. Salami, Fidel N. Nwaogu, Muphutau Bola Ajibade, Livinus Obinna Iwoha, Jerry Umoru Onarumi, Harry Ngonadi and Chukwuemeka Samuel Ogwabu.

Vice Admiral Iko Ibrahim, while congratulating the newly promoted officers, said their elevation was as a result of their hardwork, commitment and dedication.

He said: "Your elevation is bringing you to a position where only a few of you will be noted. You carry a weight that is heavy. You are living with serious challenges. But we cannot afford to fail. You must remain unshaken in the pursuit of the absolute protection of resources against the unbecoming elements against our nation, ensure that our economic zone is given maximum security required for economic activities, safety of ships, protection of our maritime environment and the Gulf of Guinea, which has suddenly become gold globally. The roles of Navy have graduated from the basic naval operations as a result of the added challenges of the militancy in the Niger Delta and the Gulf of Guinea.

"We are about 12,000 officers and men and the economy of the country rest on our shoulders and the expectation is high. Yes, there are limitations but the common man on the streets does not know that; hence we must do everything to give the nation the best. We have conferred on you the honour to demonstrate that this nation is the best and you must justify this because at this stage all hands must be on deck."

Vice Admiral Ibrahim advised the newly promoted officers to buckle up and put in their best in tackling the challenges adding "you cannot afford to fail. The nation depends on your capacity to handle these challenges."

He then assured them of the maximum support of the Federal Government for effective discharge of their responsibilities.

Some of the newly promoted Captains include Samaila Lassa, Audu Gemu, Luka Paul Jehu, Yeminu Momoh Musa, Ibrahim Chonoqo, Ibrahim Majidabi Lawal and Othniel Gabo Filafa.

Also yesterday, the Minister of Defence, Dr. Shetima Mustapha, asked the Nigerian military to rededicate itself to the service of the country.

He made the call while decorating four principal officers attached to the ministry. He harped on the weight the territorial integrity of the country places on the military.

According to the minister, there is need for the Armed Forces to justify the confidence and pride of Nigerians by staying above board while carrying out their constitutional responsibilities.

He noted that "your duties are not only to humanity but I believe is also service to God. It adds to the development of the individuals and the country. The issue of integrity is key. Since it has no duplicate, it is either you have it or you don't. As professionals, I expect you not to compromise but to adhere to the ethics."

While commending the newly promoted officers, the Minister of State, Demola Seriki, enjoined them to strive harder to move the ministry and the country higher than it was before their elevation.

Stressing that integrity should be their watchword, Seriki urged them to be steadfast. "It is often heard that after being promoted, some military officers often engage in acts that lead to their demotion, so it is incumbent on you to abstain from anything that will tarnish your image and that of the military or blemish what you have worked so hard to accomplish."

The newly promoted are Colonel Saghir Yaro, the Staff Officer to the Minister, Group Captains Olu Tunwase and Morakinyo Akiode and Major

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 02:01 PM
haaaa, haba, if OBJ appointed men based on merit, that meant they were appointed based on seniority which is a military tradition, so how has UMYA erred in this respect. Can anyone prove or show us a promotion that was not based on promotion. i also want people to remember that the 18 generals that perished in the plane crash created some vacuum that have been presumably filled by seniority. OBJ ministers of defense were equally Northerners, from Danjuma to Kwankwaso, or is it the ceremonial Minster of states in defense that is the contention? so UMYA is maintaining the status quo. Are those appointed today not Nigerians and why don't they deserve such appointments. It will make a good debate if facts of sensitive positions in the Military is listed out and placed side by side with appointees during OBJ and UMYA. There no rot that can be pinned on UMYA that OBJ did not either engineered or initiated eventhough some have back fired, but OBJ still carries the cross
I'll make an exception to debate this with you if you are not going to resort to your abusive mode when the debate is not going your way.

The current chief of army, Dambauzzu, has a few number of generals who were his senior. They were moved to defence headquarters or retired to accomodate his appointment. He also had many comtemporaries, his NDA set who were also major generals. Tell me on which merit was he appointed over others? The president and commader in chief does not have to look at seniority alone before making his appointments. If he is going to be fair he looks at it together with seniority and the principles of federal character.
When Malu was appointed, there were protest made to Obasanjo, that he was an Abacha man. He appointed him all the same until that one started running his mouth foul. He then replaced him with Ogomudia. He could have appointed Owonubi or any other Yoruba, but he did not. The same when he appointed Martin Agai. Note that Ogomudia would be the first Southern chief of army staff since 1980 when Akinriande held that position.

Why was no southerner appointed to the position of COAS before OBJ made Ogomudia one? Merit? Seniority?
So are you telling me there are no southerners fit enough for the position of minister of defence?

DaBishop
Dec 31, 2008, 02:06 PM
I'll make an exception to debate this with you if you are not going to resort to your abusive mode when the debate is not going your way.

The current chief of army, Dambauzzu, has a few number of generals who were his senior. They were moved to defence headquarters or retired to accomodate his appointment. He also had many comtemporaries, his NDA set who were also major generals. Tell me on which merit was he appointed over others? The president and commader in chief does not have to look at seniority alone before making his appointments. If he is going to be fair he looks at it together with seniority and the principles of federal character.
When Malu was appointed, there were protest made to Obasanjo, that he was an Abacha man. He appointed him all the same until that one started running his mouth foul. He then replaced him with Ogomudia. He could have appointed Owonubi or any other Yoruba, but he did not. The same when he appointed Martin Agai. Note that Ogomudia would be the first Southern chief of army staff since 1980 when Akinriande held that position.

Why was no southerner appointed to the position of COAS before OBJ made Ogomudia one? Merit? Seniority?
So are you telling me there are no southerners fit enough for the position of minister of defence?

What was Malu running his mouth and saying, sir

maxsiollun
Dec 31, 2008, 02:07 PM
On this point I agree. In his appointments, OBJ observed federal character more than any other Nigerian leader and no one can accuse him of ethnic bias.

His military and security appointments were spread across the federation:

Chiefs of Defence Staff - Admiral Ibrahim Ogohi (North) Gen Alexander Ogomudia (South, Christian), Gen Martin Luther Agwai (North, Christian)

Chiefs of Army Staff - Lt-General SVL Malu (North Central, christian),Gen Alexander Ogomudia (South, Christian), Gen Martin Luther Agwai (North, Christian), Lt-Gen Owoye Andrew Azazi (South, Christian)

Chiefs of Air Staff: Air Marshal Isaac Alfa (North Central,christian), Air Marshal Jonah Wuyep (North Christian), Air Marshal Paul Dike (South, Christian)

Chief of Staff at the Presidency - Maj-Gen Abdullahi Mohammed (North Central, Muslim)

National Security Adviser Lt-Gen Aliyu Mohammed Gusau (North West, Muslim), Maj-Gen Abdullahi Sarki Mukhtar (North, Muslim)

Defence Secretaries: Lt-Gen Danjuma (North, Christian), Rabiu Kwankwawo (North, Muslim), Thomas Aguiyi-Ironsi (South, Christian)

EFCC: Nuhu Ribadu

Contrast with appointments under Abacha, where almost the entire top echelon were from the Kano-Kanuri axis. Look at this:

CSO: Major Hamza al Mustapha
NSA: Ismaila Gwarzo
COAS: Maj-Gen Alwali Kazir, then Maj-Gen Ishaya Bamaiyi
Fed Capital Territory: Lt-Gen Jerry Useni
Minister of Mines: Lt-Gen Mohammed Haladu
DMI: Brig Ibrahim Sabo

Only Useni and Bamaiyi were outside that axis and even then they were still northern. If Obasanjo had appointed that number of southerners or Yorubas to such posts, the Nigerian press would have screamed blue murder.


I am saying Obasanjo did not look at ethnicity before appointing service chiefs. He appointed on merit. His appointments, military or civil, cut accross all the ethnic groups, the Igbo, the deltans, Southern zarians of the katafs, Udoma, hausa, Fulani and even his Yoruba kinsmen were less prominent in his military appointments. His ministers of defence were even northerners. YA has reversed all these appointing mostly northerners to sensitive military positions.

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 02:12 PM
Thank you Max,
You have a brilliant record of references on the military and more.

Osibinaebi
Dec 31, 2008, 02:15 PM
Well we are comparing OBJ with UMYA appoint ment now, so why bring ABACHA into it. We all knew ABACHA defiled all protocol and you cannot compare his regime with that of OBJ which was out to proof that democracy was the best thing, so i suggest we stick to OBJ UMYA

EWURO,
I will be back shortly with a reply to your position or views on the military appointments. On the foul/abusive issue language, go check again , you started by going the name calling way,

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 02:18 PM
What was Malu running his mouth and saying, sir

He went to the press criticising the president and the commander in chief for inviting US military to re-train and collaborate with Nigerian soldiers, Seamen and airmen. As a serving soldier, nay COAS, he had no right to do that.

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 02:31 PM
Well we are comparing OBJ with UMYA appoint ment now, so why bring ABACHA into it. We all knew ABACHA defiled all protocol and you cannot compare his regime with that of OBJ which was out to proof that democracy was the best thing, so i suggest we stick to OBJ UMYA

EWURO,
I will be back shortly with a reply to your position or views on the military appointments. On the foul/abusive issue language, go check again , you started by going the name calling way,

Bring in any past Nigerian leader, OBJ observed the principle of federal character most. Max was just giving an example. You may look into Buhari's appointment. His deputy, Idiagbon was a nothern muslim. COAS was IBB, northern muslim. IBB was worse, made to sideline Ukiwe. The same Abacha and Abdusalam. OBJ remains the most detribalised leader in his appointments.

DaBishop
Dec 31, 2008, 03:14 PM
He went to the press criticising the president and the commander in chief for inviting US military to re-train and collaborate with Nigerian soldiers, Seamen and airmen. As a serving soldier, nay COAS, he had no right to do that.

You think that as a disciplined, loyal officer with a track record, he did not know that?...I supported OBJ in being C-in-C, but why do you think Malu sacrificed his career?

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 03:52 PM
You think that as a disciplined, loyal officer with a track record, he did not know that?...I supported OBJ in being C-in-C, but why do you think Malu sacrificed his career?

Could he have done that under abacha? Criticise him? As for him being disciplined, I do not think so. A discplined officer would not wear an abacha badge. His loyality was to a abacha and not his country. Did he sacrifice his career? I believe he did not realise OBJ could sting.

maxsiollun
Dec 31, 2008, 04:10 PM
If we talk pure military competence as proven in substantive operations, and we exclude coup plotters...some of the most capable officers in the army's history (in no particular order) are:

Gen Martin Luther Agwai
Lt-Gen Chikadibia Obiakor
Lt-Gen Victor Malu
Lt-Gen Salihu Ibrahim
Lt-Gen Domkat Bali
Maj-Gen Aguiyi-Ironsi
Maj-Gen Mohammed Shuwa
Brig Ogundipe
Brig Ademulegun
Brig Maimalari
Lt-Col Alex Madiebo
Major John Obienu

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 04:21 PM
If we talk pure military competence as proven in substantive operations, and we exclude coup plotters...some of the most capable officers in the army's history (in no particular order) are:

Gen Martin Luther Agwai
Lt-Gen Chikadibia Obiakor
Lt-Gen Victor Malu
Lt-Gen Salihu Ibrahim
Lt-Gen Domkat Bali
Maj-Gen Aguiyi-Ironsi
Maj-Gen Mohammed Shuwa
Brig Ogundipe
Brig Ademulegun
Brig Maimalari
Lt-Col Alex Madiebo
Major John Obienu

How did you arrive at this? On what criteria? We had a war, the biafran civil war. Adekunle and Obasanjo came tops. If shuwa made your list, why did you exclude the other war commanders. Afterall, despite the acrimony between them, Danjuma gave credit to Obasanjo in his interview for his masterplan and execution of the war effort. This was his recent interview where he condemned OBJ on many other fronts. You may not know how I hate to admit some credit on behalf of OBJ! But fair is fair.

maxsiollun
Dec 31, 2008, 04:44 PM
You need to read more of Adekunle's exploits during the civil was to understand that much of his legacy was built on gung-ho reckless acts which did not ultimate achieve results. Shuwa was orthodox, disciplined and doctrinally sound. Adekunle was a loose cannon at times. I am not saying that OBJ was not good but he did join the war at a time when the Biafrans were weary, hungry and ravaged by famine. I don't know muh credit to give for fighting an "army" consisting of shirtless, barefoot, hungry teenage boys carrying 1 shot rifles.

DaBishop
Dec 31, 2008, 04:44 PM
Could he have done that under abacha? Criticise him? As for him being disciplined, I do not think so. A discplined officer would not wear an abacha badge. His loyality was to a abacha and not his country. Did he sacrifice his career? I believe he did not realise OBJ could sting.

Shows how much you know the Nigerian Army...not US Army, nor HRM's Army..
I stop there. Thanks. Feel free to yab him...or as they say, CARRY GO!

Ewuro
Dec 31, 2008, 04:55 PM
You need to read more of Adekunle's exploits during the civil was to understand that much of his legacy was built on gung-ho reckless acts which did not ultimate achieve results. Shuwa was orthodox, disciplined and doctrinally sound. Adekunle was a loose cannon at times. I am not saying that OBJ was not good but he did join the war at a time when the Biafrans were weary, hungry and ravaged by famine. I don't know muh credit to give for fighting an "army" consisting of shirtless, barefoot, hungry teenage boys carrying 1 shot rifles.

OBJ, as the rear commander to Adekunle 3rd marine commando was responsible for warding off the biafran onslaught onto Ore, quite early into the war.. It was the same "army" of shirtless, barefoot, hungry teenage boys that made nonsense of Murtala's command. It was the same "army" that was faced by Shuwa whom you gave so much credit. Madiebo and Obienu were also in that army. If his colleagues in the war front gave him so much credit, why do you want to deny him. Afterall danjuma's position is more credible than you and I. As for Adekunle, it had been said he lost glory because he was enjoying the spoilt of war too much, pocketing dead soldiers wages. He never wanted the war to really end despite making the best advances. That was the reason he was removed.

Namio
Dec 31, 2008, 05:13 PM
Max,

I beg mak you no kill man with lafu lafu. So na only 11:11 or fifty:fifty you fit remember to make your point? From when to when, which war?

You may be right, but I did not see many names from Ironsi time in Congo to Liberia. What about Bri. and Lt. Col. those ones no be officers. Your selective memory to justify a noble point, na wa!



Ewuro, what "public post" did Joe Akahan, Yakubu Rimdan, Dambazau, Agwai and Martin Adamu hold?

As for foreign peacekeeping ops. Here is a summary of the commanders of Nigerian peacekeeping ops over the years:

General Martin Luther Agwai
Lt-Gen Joshua Ogonyaro
Lt-Gen Chikadibia Isaac Obiakor
Lt-Gen SVL Malu
Lieutenant General Joseph Owonibi
Maj-Gen Edward Unimna
Maj-Gen Festus Okonkwo
Major General JTU Aguiyi Ironsi
Major General Chris Garuba
Major General Ekundayo Opaleye
Major General Geoffrey Ejiga
Major General S Iliya
Major General Collins Ihekire
Major General Rufus Kupolati
Major General Ishaya Bakut
Major General John Mark Inienger
Major General Timothy Shelpidi
Major General Felix Mujakperuo
Major General Gabriel Kpamber
Major General Mohammed Magoro
Brig John Shagaya
Brig Adetunji Olurin


Look at that list and tell me if there is a regional bias toward the north or south. Of the 22 officers on the list, 11 are from the north and 11 from the south - 50:50! Thanks.

No Smoking
Dec 31, 2008, 05:26 PM
@ maxsiollun
Yu even froget Gen Cyril Nweze for yer list. Ogbonge ECOMOG commander... :hail:

ojemba
Jan 1, 2009, 01:16 AM
On this point I agree. In his appointments, OBJ observed federal character more than any other Nigerian leader and no one can accuse him of ethnic bias.

His military and security appointments were spread across the federation:

Chiefs of Defence Staff - Admiral Ibrahim Ogohi (North) Gen Alexander Ogomudia (South, Christian), Gen Martin Luther Agwai (North, Christian)

Chiefs of Army Staff - Lt-General SVL Malu (North Central, christian),Gen Alexander Ogomudia (South, Christian), Gen Martin Luther Agwai (North, Christian), Lt-Gen Owoye Andrew Azazi (South, Christian)

Chiefs of Air Staff: Air Marshal Isaac Alfa (North Central,christian), Air Marshal Jonah Wuyep (North Christian), Air Marshal Paul Dike (South, Christian)

Chief of Staff at the Presidency - Maj-Gen Abdullahi Mohammed (North Central, Muslim)

National Security Adviser Lt-Gen Aliyu Mohammed Gusau (North West, Muslim), Maj-Gen Abdullahi Sarki Mukhtar (North, Muslim)

Defence Secretaries: Lt-Gen Danjuma (North, Christian), Rabiu Kwankwawo (North, Muslim), Thomas Aguiyi-Ironsi (South, Christian)

EFCC: Nuhu Ribadu

Contrast with appointments under Abacha, where almost the entire top echelon were from the Kano-Kanuri axis. Look at this:

CSO: Major Hamza al Mustapha
NSA: Ismaila Gwarzo
COAS: Maj-Gen Alwali Kazir, then Maj-Gen Ishaya Bamaiyi
Fed Capital Territory: Lt-Gen Jerry Useni
Minister of Mines: Lt-Gen Mohammed Haladu
DMI: Brig Ibrahim Sabo

Only Useni and Bamaiyi were outside that axis and even then they were still northern. If Obasanjo had appointed that number of southerners or Yorubas to such posts, the Nigerian press would have screamed blue murder.


Max

In eight years on Igbo chief of staff and one Igbo under secretary of defence for a group with one of the largest populations in the country and you think there is no ethnic bias there?

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 09:56 AM
No I did not. You obviously did not see my post on this point to Ewuro yesterday (#38). Read the thread carefully before replying. I will re-paste the post here for your sake:

"Cyril Iweze was the ECOMOG Chief of Staff. He was not the commander of that mission. The mission's commander was the Ghanaian officer General Arnold Quainoo. The Chief of Staff is NOT the commander.





@ maxsiollun
Yu even froget Gen Cyril Nweze for yer list. Ogbonge ECOMOG commander... :hail:

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 09:59 AM
I have no idea what you are talking about. The list is a complete list of all Nigerian peacekeeping ops commanders since independence in 1960. When Ironsi was commanding the UN peacekeeping force in the Congo, Ironsi alone was the Nigerian commander. There was no other Nigerian commander of that peacekeeping mission.

Did you not see the name "Maj-Gen JTU Aguiyi-Ironsi" on the list? Read it again. Please name me what missing Nigerian Brigs and Lt-Cols have commanded international peacekeeping missions and are not on my list.

Many thanks



Max,

I beg mak you no kill man with lafu lafu. So na only 11:11 or fifty:fifty you fit remember to make your point? From when to when, which war?

You may be right, but I did not see many names from Ironsi time in Congo to Liberia. What about Bri. and Lt. Col. those ones no be officers. Your selective memory to justify a noble point, na wa!

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 10:03 AM
Fighting a war is one thing. Fighting it in accordance with battle doctrine, obeying orders from the Commander-in-Chief and minimising casualties is another. Col Shuwa's 1 div was the most disciplined and effective div the Nigerian civil war. They suffered the least casualties and inflicted the least atrocities. You will find that 2 Div and 3 Marine Commando Div (commanded by Murtala Muhammed and Adekunle respectively) were the worst perpetrators of atrocities, were ill disciplined, wasted the most ammunition mowing down brances and plants, lost ground continually to the Biafrans, got their equipment captured often and suffered the heaviest casualties.

Point of correction: Major John Obienu most certainly did NOT fight in the civil war. He was dead almost a year before the war started! Unless you think dead men's ghosts fought for Biafra?



OBJ, as the rear commander to Adekunle 3rd marine commando was responsible for warding off the biafran onslaught onto Ore, quite early into the war.. It was the same "army" of shirtless, barefoot, hungry teenage boys that made nonsense of Murtala's command. It was the same "army" that was faced by Shuwa whom you gave so much credit. Madiebo and Obienu were also in that army. If his colleagues in the war front gave him so much credit, why do you want to deny him. Afterall danjuma's position is more credible than you and I. As for Adekunle, it had been said he lost glory because he was enjoying the spoilt of war too much, pocketing dead soldiers wages. He never wanted the war to really end despite making the best advances. That was the reason he was removed.

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 10:08 AM
Yes I do. Let me tell you why:

The Hausa-Fulani, Igbo and Yoruba are Nigeria's largest ethnicities. Let us break down OBJ's appointments of Chief of Defence Staff, Chief of Army Staff, Chief of Naval Staff, Chief of Air Staff and Defence Secretary to each ethnicity:

Hausa-Fulani - ONE
Yoruba - NONE
Igbo - TWO

So OBJ appointed more Igbos to those positions than Yorubas and Hausa-Fulanis combined.

Any comments?



Max

In eight years on Igbo chief of staff and one Igbo under secretary of defence for a group with one of the largest populations in the country and you think there is no ethnic bias there?

Ewuro
Jan 1, 2009, 02:17 PM
Fighting a war is one thing. Fighting it in accordance with battle doctrine, obeying orders from the Commander-in-Chief and minimising casualties is another. Col Shuwa's 1 div was the most disciplined and effective div the Nigerian civil war. They suffered the least casualties and inflicted the least atrocities. You will find that 2 Div and 3 Marine Commando Div (commanded by Murtala Muhammed and Adekunle respectively) were the worst perpetrators of atrocities, were ill disciplined, wasted the most ammunition mowing down brances and plants, lost ground continually to the Biafrans, got their equipment captured often and suffered the heaviest casualties.

Point of correction: Major John Obienu most certainly did NOT fight in the civil war. He was dead almost a year before the war started! Unless you think dead men's ghosts fought for Biafra?

Max,
You have not factored in many other criteria. Like Biafra incursion was more to the West than towards the North. Biafra tried to capture lagos, so there would be more battles and attendant casualties with the 3rd marine commado. In any case you will have to provide a statistics to justify your claims on casualties. Suffice to say Danjuma said Obasanjo presented a war plan to all the field commanders, which was initialy rejected by Shuwa but proved effective in putting the war to and end. Irrespective of his ignoble role in his 8-year tenure as a civilian president, the biggest military honour must go to Obasanjo for his strategy for ending the war.

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 03:29 PM
This forum is full of ethnic champions who have no rhyme or reason for any of their arguments other than ethnic bias....


Max,
You have not factored in many other criteria. Like Biafra incursion was more to the West than towards the North. Biafra tried to capture lagos, so there would be more battles and attendant casualties with the 3rd marine commado. In any case you will have to provide a statistics to justify your claims on casualties. Suffice to say Danjuma said Obasanjo presented a war plan to all the field commanders, which was initialy rejected by Shuwa but proved effective in putting the war to and end. Irrespective of his ignoble role in his 8-year tenure as a civilian president, the biggest military honour must go to Obasanjo for his strategy for ending the war.

Ewuro
Jan 1, 2009, 04:02 PM
This forum is full of ethnic champions who have no rhyme or reason for any of their arguments other than ethnic bias....

Quoting Danjuma does not constitute no reason nor arguements nor ethnic bias...
The essence of this forum is to challenge this kind of evidence with your own reasons if you have any. The last time I checked danjuma has no ethnic affiliation with OBJ. Going also by the interview it is safe to say they are no more friends, and that is putting it lightly.
You made unsubstantiated claims about soldiers being better than their colleaugues and you do not want it challenged.

Unless you want to claim that you know more about the Nigerian military and the civil war than Theophilus danjuma, who was actually a war commander and subsequently army chief of staff.

No Smoking
Jan 1, 2009, 04:33 PM
No I did not. You obviously did not see my post on this point to Ewuro yesterday (#38). Read the thread carefully before replying. I will re-paste the post here for your sake:

"Cyril Iweze was the ECOMOG Chief of Staff. He was not the commander of that mission. The mission's commander was the Ghanaian officer General Arnold Quainoo. The Chief of Staff is NOT the commander.


Max,
Yep, I missed post #38. Thanks for obliging.

Help me here with a memory upgrade: Did Ghana not pull out of ECOMOG later, thereby leaving Nweze in charge.. :confused:

ojemba
Jan 1, 2009, 04:51 PM
Yes I do. Let me tell you why:

The Hausa-Fulani, Igbo and Yoruba are Nigeria's largest ethnicities. Let us break down OBJ's appointments of Chief of Defence Staff, Chief of Army Staff, Chief of Naval Staff, Chief of Air Staff and Defence Secretary to each ethnicity:

Hausa-Fulani - ONE
Yoruba - NONE
Igbo - TWO

So OBJ appointed more Igbos to those positions than Yorubas and Hausa-Fulanis combined.

Any comments?


Max Siollun

Can you please list the Chiefs of naval staff under OBJ, IG of Police, SSS director in addition to the list below and re assess your previous statement and see how it adds up. Besides you included Ironsi junior while omitting Abraham Adesanya's daughter (I can't quite remember her name) who held a similar post as minister of state for defence under OBJ.



National Security Adviser Lt-Gen Aliyu Mohammed Gusau (North West, Muslim), Maj-Gen Abdullahi Sarki Mukhtar (North, Muslim)

Defence Secretaries: Lt-Gen Danjuma (North, Christian), Rabiu Kwankwawo (North, Muslim), Thomas Aguiyi-Ironsi (South, Christian)

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 05:30 PM
No. Another Nigerian - Joshua Dogonyaro, eventually took over command of ECOMOG, leading to a succession if Nigerian commanders like Shagaya, Malu et al.


Max,
Yep, I missed post #38. Thanks for obliging.

Help me here with a memory upgrade: Did Ghana not pull out of ECOMOG later, thereby leaving Nweze in charge.. :confused:

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 05:35 PM
I was not talking about Danjuma. I was talking about YOUR ethnic bias! Obviously you seem to think that only Yoruba officers are capable? I've noticed all along that you have extolled the virtues of Adekunle and OBJ, but for some reason cannot accept that the Sandhurst trained Shuwa might also be a capable chap too.

You should also read the small print in my post. I said "in no particular" order so I was not suggesting that Shuwa was the best.

Also while we were on the subject of Danjuma, do you know that Danjuma served as a brigade commander under Shuwa's 1 Div during the war? Danjuma was full of praise for Shuwa and had nothing but good things to say about Shuwa's command. Other war officers like Col D.S. Abubakar, Shelleng, Martin Adamu, James Oluleye etc were similarly complimentary of Shuwa as a thouroughly professional officer too. He also kept himself out of the Machiavellian coup plots of Nigerian army politics.

Note also the comments of the C-in-C General Gowon who praised Shuwa above then Cols Murtala Muhammed and Adekunle. Gowon criticised the latter two for their utter disregard for instructions from army HQ, and for daring gung ho assaults that created much headlines, but not much success. He was most effusive about Shuwa whom he described as a "loyal, obedient, textbook commander". You can read this in Gowon's bio by Jonah Elaigwu.


Quoting Danjuma does not constitute no reason nor arguements nor ethnic bias...
The essence of this forum is to challenge this kind of evidence with your own reasons if you have any. The last time I checked danjuma has no ethnic affiliation with OBJ. Going also by the interview it is safe to say they are no more friends, and that is putting it lightly.
You made unsubstantiated claims about soldiers being better than their colleaugues and you do not want it challenged.

Unless you want to claim that you know more about the Nigerian military and the civil war than Theophilus danjuma, who was actually a war commander and subsequently army chief of staff.

maxsiollun
Jan 1, 2009, 05:36 PM
um...hang on a second. I thought your original post was about military chiefs and Defence Secretaries? ....when did SSS and IGP suddenly come into this? ..


Max Siollun

Can you please list the Chiefs of naval staff under OBJ, IG of Police, SSS director in addition to the list below and re assess your previous statement and see how it adds up. Besides you included Ironsi junior while omitting Abraham Adesanya's daughter (I can't quite remember her name) who held a similar post as minister of state for defence under OBJ.

forshow3
Jan 1, 2009, 11:14 PM
maxsiollun , you do not understand what the issue is. Here is the Issue. How were this officer promoted. The issue is there are some officers still serving in the army that are above them. Or merit been promoted who fall into the same year or even before this officer. Some even went to peace keeping but this govt did not promote them.

Let the Nigeria army prove why this officer were promoted above others ?

And just for you Nigerian are already sign up for the break up of Nigeria.

see web http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/dividenigeria

Ewuro
Jan 2, 2009, 12:00 AM
Max Siollun

Can you please list the Chiefs of naval staff under OBJ, IG of Police, SSS director in addition to the list below and re assess your previous statement and see how it adds up. Besides you included Ironsi junior while omitting Abraham Adesanya's daughter (I can't quite remember her name) who held a similar post as minister of state for defence under OBJ.

Ojemba should list all OBJ appointments at any given period to convince himself that OBJ followed the spirit of federal character. Even if he made every ministerial and miliatry appointments Igbo, an Ojemba would still cry marginalisation of the Ibos!!!

Ewuro
Jan 2, 2009, 12:04 AM
I was not talking about Danjuma. I was talking about YOUR ethnic bias! Obviously you seem to think that only Yoruba officers are capable? I've noticed all along that you have extolled the virtues of Adekunle and OBJ, but for some reason cannot accept that the Sandhurst trained Shuwa might also be a capable chap too.
- max
Compare it with my quotes below and see whether my comments about Adekunle and Obasanjo are all glorifying.

As for Adekunle, it had been said he lost glory because he was enjoying the spoilt of war too much, pocketing dead soldiers wages. He never wanted the war to really end despite making the best advances. That was the reason he was removed.


[How did you arrive at this? On what criteria? We had a war, the biafran civil war. Adekunle and Obasanjo came tops. If shuwa made your list, why did you exclude the other war commanders. Afterall, despite the acrimony between them, Danjuma gave credit to Obasanjo in his interview for his masterplan and execution of the war effort. This was his recent interview where he condemned OBJ on many other fronts. You may not know how I hate to admit some credit on behalf of OBJ! But fair is fair.

Irrespective of his ignoble role in his 8-year tenure as a civilian president, the biggest military honour must go to Obasanjo for his strategy for ending the war.

Training in Sandhurst does not make you a better soldier than those who never trained there. Just like studying at Oxford university does not make you a better graduate than somebody who studied at Cranfield. In any case you have not told us why you think the officers listed below are most capable. Afterall some of them are Yoruba and my so called ethnic bias did not lean on them:


[If we talk pure military competence as proven in substantive operations, and we exclude coup plotters...some of the most capable officers in the army's history (in no particular order) are:

Gen Martin Luther Agwai
Lt-Gen Chikadibia Obiakor
Lt-Gen Victor Malu
Lt-Gen Salihu Ibrahim
Lt-Gen Domkat Bali
Maj-Gen Aguiyi-Ironsi
Maj-Gen Mohammed Shuwa
Brig Ogundipe
Brig Ademulegun
Brig Maimalari
Lt-Col Alex Madiebo
Major John Obienu

ojemba
Jan 2, 2009, 01:08 AM
um...hang on a second. I thought your original post was about military chiefs and Defence Secretaries? ....when did SSS and IGP suddenly come into this? ..

Well is the naval chief a military chief and was Modupe Adelaja (I think that was her name) a defence minister? You may want to adjust your list once more.

ojemba
Jan 2, 2009, 01:16 AM
Ojemba should list all OBJ appointments at any given period to convince himself that OBJ followed the spirit of federal character. Even if he made every ministerial and miliatry appointments Igbo, an Ojemba would still cry marginalisation of the Ibos!!!


Ewuro

Are you an illiterate? I asked Max a specific question based on his claim that the appointment of a sole Igbo man as a service chief in all of 8 years amounts to fair representation. I know you worship OBJ, but some of us see him as a colossal failure who brought shame to his people.

forshow3
Jan 2, 2009, 01:49 AM
Yes Ewuro i agree that obj follow federal character. But it was to the disadvantage of the yorubas. Obj did close to nothing for the yoruba , why putting nearly all the money in the north. That is not right. Now Umaru comes now and start putting all of the money in the north again. so he expect us to suffer.

From everything I have seen from Umaru , he is been bias. Even IBB never try what Umaru is doing. Umaru have made IBB look good.

You see I have said that they should cut off the yorubas and hand us over to benin republic. Since you people claim, we do not do anything or have resource. Then let us go and enjoy your wealth with igbos.

Ewuro
Jan 2, 2009, 10:50 AM
Ewuro

Are you an illiterate? I asked Max a specific question based on his claim that the appointment of a sole Igbo man as a service chief in all of 8 years amounts to fair representation. I know you worship OBJ, but some of us see him as a colossal failure who brought shame to his people.

As to your question above, you do not know the meaning of the word 'illiterate' obviously. The debate between max and I is about OBJ being very fair in his military and civilian appointmemts. Your Ibo irredentist attitude would not allow you to agree to that.
Let us not forget, the people at the neck of my wood including my humble self never voted for OBJ. It is you and your people who like to support an Hausa /Fulani choice who did. So your hero worship accusation should be directed at you and elsewhere.

ojemba
Jan 2, 2009, 04:17 PM
As to your question above, you do not know the meaning of the word 'illiterate' obviously. The debate between max and I is about OBJ being very fair in his military and civilian appointmemts. Your Ibo irredentist attitude would not allow you to agree to that.
Let us not forget, the people at the neck of my wood including my humble self never voted for OBJ. It is you and your people who like to support an Hausa /Fulani choice who did. So your hero worship accusation should be directed at you and elsewhere.

Ewuro

I know you wear the amala stains on your agbada like a badge of pride, but your attempt at re writing history on Obj's woefull performance is a non starter. You can not successfully tell that lie as Nigerians are still suffering the pains of his mediocre leadership from, failed electricity projects to high unemployment.

Nigerians had no hand in rejecting your preferred Afenifere candidate Falae, rather your friends up north felt their alliance with OBJ and their shared hatred and fear of anything to the east or Ore would make him more amenable to their designs. When you give people a choice between satan and lucifer they gotta choose one.

Ewuro
Jan 2, 2009, 04:39 PM
Ewuro

I know you wear the amala stains on your agbada like a badge of pride, but your attempt at re writing history on Obj's woefull performance is a non starter. You can not successfully tell that lie as Nigerians are still suffering the pains of his mediocre leadership from, failed electricity projects to high unemployment.

Nigerians had no hand in rejecting your preferred Afenifere candidate Falae, rather your friends up north felt their alliance with OBJ and their shared hatred and fear of anything to the east or Ore would make him more amenable to their designs. When you give people a choice between satan and lucifer they gotta choose one.

Oje-mba or Oje-Akpu,
So you choese Lucifer over Satan or satan over Lucifer, you need deliverance. That is why you are unable to distinguish between Obasanjo's performance as president and his role as a war commander. You need to see an excorsist to deliver you from the power of satan and lucifer and a shrink to purge you of yorubaphobia.

ojemba
Jan 2, 2009, 06:52 PM
Oje-mba or Oje-Akpu,
So you choese Lucifer over Satan or satan over Lucifer, you need deliverance. That is why you are unable to distinguish between Obasanjo's performance as president and his role as a war commander. You need to see an excorsist to deliver you from the power of satan and lucifer and a shrink to purge you of yorubaphobia.


Ewuro

Shameless amala gorger, it is your type that equate Obj to Yoruba. How many Yoruba men do you know sleep with their son's wives? How many do you know stole $16b from the national vault? It is your type that fills the rank of Gani Adams OPC or Adedibu's local militia, a free amala meal is all that is needed to buy your services.

Obasanjo had no usefull role as a war commander beyond taking instructions from his juniors in Dodan barracks. A man who spent his timing hiding while others where mobilizing to quell Dimka's coup can't be much of a soldier. His good friend Nzeogwu did not even think much of him when they plotted their coup, that tells you how much his peers thought of him in the army.

forshow3
Jan 3, 2009, 01:54 PM
max, please can you explain the reason why an average northener soja become a general at an average of 30's and the southern soja becomes a general above the age of 41 years.

Dont forget that Musa yar adua retired as a general at the age of 34.

No Smoking
Jan 3, 2009, 03:35 PM
Nor be all da sojas sabi dem koret birth-day. Plus, dem dey declare age forwards and backwards, laik some other Naija dem dey do, too.

ojemba
Jan 3, 2009, 03:47 PM
max, please can you explain the reason why an average northener soja become a general at an average of 30's and the southern soja becomes a general above the age of 41 years.

Dont forget that Musa yar adua retired as a general at the age of 34.

Forshow

Max does not have to explain that to you, maybe you should have asked Ogundipe why a brigadier took orders from a lt. col and you will understand why the North can do whatever they like. You are worried about them being generals at 30 when you have your own generals like Diya prostrating before their majors.

forshow3
Jan 3, 2009, 06:09 PM
You want to know why, diya did that guns my friend. who has gun as power. Sitting in abuja does not give you power. get guns you get power. see how mend they show them.

forshow3
Jan 4, 2009, 06:08 PM
diya did not have a gun.

Bill Carson
Jan 4, 2009, 09:47 PM
diya did not have a gun.

Forshow3,

Diya was a Joke not an Army Officer…….. He Is a disgrace to his family, that he can rear his ugly head this days shows the man(sisi) Is pathetic. I will disown a father like that.

Diya Is sad Indictment of Nigeria Army nothing to do with his tribe, he could have come from anywhere In Nigeria.

Bill Carson
Jan 4, 2009, 10:06 PM
Forshow

Max does not have to explain that to you, maybe you should have asked Ogundipe why a brigadier took orders from a lt. col and you will understand why the North can do whatever they like. You are worried about them being generals at 30 when you have your own generals like Diya prostrating before their majors.

Ojemba,

Don't forget IBB was a fat coward, he sold Dimka who was a close friend to him…. Read more about what happened at FRCN Building between IBB & Dimka. Murtala Mohammed was a war criminal ( for your Info, MM Is an Auchi man In Edo state, brought up In Kano).

We have to be careful not to fall Into Forshow3 trap and look at Issues from across the border mentality.

Ranter
Jan 5, 2009, 05:55 AM
I love the argument of the fellow that said fire a gun in the market and see the reactions of different ethnicities.

Nice method of military recruitment.

Our current crop of armed robbers would make better military chiefs and the MEND should replace the entire Navy.

Forshow3, I bow for you.

maxsiollun
Jan 5, 2009, 01:52 PM
This is a disingenuous question. You know full well that until 1999, all the four star Generals in the history of the Nigerian army were appointed based on their participation in coup plots or military regimes. The Generals (or equivalent rank in other forces) produced by the Nigerian military prior to the restoration of democracy in 1999 are:

General Gowon
General Muhammed
General Obasanjo
General Babangida
General Abacha
General Bali
Admiral Aikhomu
Admiral Nyako (the current Adamawa Gov)

Since 1999 the only other officers appointed to four star General are:

Admiral Ibrahim Ogohi
General Alexander Ogomudia
General Martin Luther Agwai
General Owoye Andrew Azazi
Air Chief Marshal Paul Dike

Ironically all the above (post 1999) were promoted to their ranks by the much maligned OBJ, who was keen to show military officers that they did not have to be coup plotters in order to become Generals.



max, please can you explain the reason why an average northener soja become a general at an average of 30's and the southern soja becomes a general above the age of 41 years.

Dont forget that Musa yar adua retired as a general at the age of 34.

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 02:16 PM
This is a disingenuous question. You know full well that until 1999, all the four star Generals in the history of the Nigerian army were appointed based on their participation in coup plots or military regimes. The Generals (or equivalent rank in other forces) produced by the Nigerian military prior to the restoration of democracy in 1999 are:

General Gowon
General Muhammed
General Obasanjo
General Babangida
General Abacha
General Bali
Admiral Aikhomu
Admiral Nyako (the current Adamawa Gov)

Since 1999 the only other officers appointed to four star General are:

Admiral Ibrahim Ogohi
General Alexander Ogomudia
General Martin Luther Agwai
General Owoye Andrew Azazi
Air Chief Marshal Paul Dike

Ironically all the above (post 1999) were promoted to their ranks by the much maligned OBJ, who was keen to show military officers that they did not have to be coup plotters in order to become Generals.

Max,
Thanks for this. However if Ewuro had said this, someone would call him a tribalist.
Obasanjo promoted on merit because he also was a victim of ethnicly biased promotion in the army. For instance, Obasanjo joined and became a commissioned officer even before Murtala Mohammed. Somehow along the line, Murtala along with some northern officers got promoted by Gen, Aguiyi Ironsi, in order to placate those Northern officers who wanted Nzeogwu and the arrested first coupists be court-martialled. Murtala was made a Lt. Colonel while Obasanjo remained a major despite Obasanjo's seniority, military and and academic superior qualifications.

Also note, none of the four-star generals promoted under Obasanjo were Yoruba. He restored some degree of professionalism into the army.

Of course for me, in other araes of the polity, he was an unmitigated disasater. Apart from third-term ambition , which was shameful, his inability to conveign an SNC was to me, the biggest failure. There are areas where his contributions should be commended as well.

Osibinaebi
Jan 5, 2009, 03:38 PM
Max,
Thanks for this. However if Ewuro had said this, someone would call him a tribalist.
Obasanjo promoted on merit because he also was a victim of ethnicly biased promotion in the army. For instance, Obasanjo joined and became a commissioned officer even before Murtala Mohammed. Somehow along the line, Murtala along with some northern officers got promoted by Gen, Aguiyi Ironsi, in order to placate those Northern officers who wanted Nzeogwu and the arrested first coupists be court-martialled. Murtala was made a Lt. Colonel while Obasanjo remained a major despite Obasanjo's seniority, military and and academic superior qualifications.

Also note, none of the four-star generals promoted under Obasanjo were Yoruba. He restored some degree of professionalism into the army.

Of course for me, in other araes of the polity, he was an unmitigated disasater. Apart from third-term ambition , which was shameful, his inability to conveign an SNC was to me, the biggest failure. There are areas where his contributions should be commended as well.


I think you are twisting the tale here, one time you compare Obasanjo with all govt, another you compare him with just before 1979. For a proper perspective, compare Obasanjo tenure from 1999 with Shagari 1979-1983 and probably Pre 1966, as for UMYA, he is still in his second year and you have not produced any evidence that he has promoted once group over the other. you cannot in anyway compare OBJ time with the time of coup plotters, how do you expect people to plot coup and still follow normal ranking when they took risk and had pre-conceived idea before embarking on the coup, inshort, the coup plotters are misnormal and should not be compared with democracy.
NB, i have not disagreed or agreed with your OBJ Merit parameter praise, I rather look at it from a level playground to be able to judge. so please make the appropriate comparison for us to agree or disagree with you.

maxsiollun
Jan 5, 2009, 03:56 PM
For all the criticism leveled at him, Nigerians have failed to credit OBJ for one thing that I hope will be one of his enduring legacies: ridding the army of its politicised coup plotting cadre and (hopefully) ridding Nigeria of military coups.

Decades of military coups and misrule turned the Nigerian army into the most thoroughly politicised army in the world (as at 1998). Some elements of the army were viewed as little more than armed political parties that could threaten the existence of any civilian government. Thus when Nigeria returned to civilian democratic rule in 1999, it was feared that it would only be a matter of time before the army found an excuse to abandon the barracks for another coup.

One of the aides of Obasanjo’s predecessor as Head of State General Abdulsalam Abubakar was quoted by the Guardian of London in 1998 as follows:

“Cadet officers now talk openly not of having the ambition to become a battalion commander but of what they would like to do when they become governors of a state. The politicisation of the military has gone too far.”


Within one month of OBJ coming to power in 1999, the government drew up a list of all armed forces officers that had served in military governments for 6 months or more. OBJ retired all such officers (numbering over 100) compulsorily. The retirements swept out a number of immensely powerful and wealthy officers who could have been sources of future political discontent and coup plots:


Major-General Patrick Aziza (who chaired the ‘coup’ tribunal that convicted Obasanjo and Shehu Musa Yar’Adua in 1995)
Air Vice Marshal Idi Musa (former head of the Defence Intelligence Agency who was accused by some of being one of those that framed Diya, Adisa and Olanrewaju in the 1997 coup plot against Abacha)
Colonel Dauda Musa Komo (the former Military Governor of Rivers State who was instrumental in events leading up to the arrest and detention of Ken Saro-Wiwa)
Brigadier Mohammed Marwa (the popular and powerful former Military Governor of Lagos)
former Abacha regime members Major-Generals Bashir Magashi, Abdullahi Mukhtar and Chris Garuba (former Commandant of the National War College)
Major General John Mark Inienger (former ECOMOG commander)
Brigadier Yakubu Muazu (the former commander of the Brigade of Guards)


The almost 10 year period from May 1999 till the present is the longest period of time in Nigeria’s history without a military coup. It is no coincidence that a coup failed to occur in the absence of the retired political officers.
Obasanjo also broke the northern stranglehold on leadership of the army. Since the overthrow of General Gowon in 1975, there have been 16 Chiefs of Army Staff. All but 3 of these 16 have been northerners. The three southerners to hold the post (Lt-General Alani Akinrinade, General Alexander Ogomudia and General Andrew Owoye Azazi) were all appointed by Obasanjo.





Max,
Thanks for this. However if Ewuro had said this, someone would call him a tribalist.
Obasanjo promoted on merit because he also was a victim of ethnicly biased promotion in the army. For instance, Obasanjo joined and became a commissioned officer even before Murtala Mohammed. Somehow along the line, Murtala along with some northern officers got promoted by Gen, Aguiyi Ironsi, in order to placate those Northern officers who wanted Nzeogwu and the arrested first coupists be court-martialled. Murtala was made a Lt. Colonel while Obasanjo remained a major despite Obasanjo's seniority, military and and academic superior qualifications.

Also note, none of the four-star generals promoted under Obasanjo were Yoruba. He restored some degree of professionalism into the army.

Of course for me, in other araes of the polity, he was an unmitigated disasater. Apart from third-term ambition , which was shameful, his inability to conveign an SNC was to me, the biggest failure. There are areas where his contributions should be commended as well.

tonsoyo
Jan 5, 2009, 04:09 PM
For all the criticism leveled at him, Nigerians have failed to credit OBJ for one thing that I hope will be one of his enduring legacies: ridding the army of its politicised coup plotting cadre and (hopefully) ridding Nigeria of military coups.

Decades of military coups and misrule turned the Nigerian army into the most thoroughly politicised army in the world (as at 1998). Some elements of the army were viewed as little more than armed political parties that could threaten the existence of any civilian government. Thus when Nigeria returned to civilian democratic rule in 1999, it was feared that it would only be a matter of time before the army found an excuse to abandon the barracks for another coup.

One of the aides of Obasanjo's predecessor as Head of State General Abdulsalam Abubakar was quoted by the Guardian of London in 1998 as follows:

"Cadet officers now talk openly not of having the ambition to become a battalion commander but of what they would like to do when they become governors of a state. The politicisation of the military has gone too far."


Within one month of OBJ coming to power in 1999, the government drew up a list of all armed forces officers that had served in military governments for 6 months or more. OBJ retired all such officers (numbering over 100) compulsorily. The retirements swept out a number of immensely powerful and wealthy officers who could have been sources of future political discontent and coup plots:


Major-General Patrick Aziza (who chaired the ‘coup' tribunal that convicted Obasanjo and Shehu Musa Yar'Adua in 1995)
Air Vice Marshal Idi Musa (former head of the Defence Intelligence Agency who was accused by some of being one of those that framed Diya, Adisa and Olanrewaju in the 1997 coup plot against Abacha)
former Abacha regime members Major-Generals Bashir Magashi, Abdullahi Mukhtar and Chris Garuba (former Commandant of the National War College)
Major General John Mark Inienger (former ECOMOG commander)
Brigadier Yakubu Muazu (the former commander of the Brigade of Guards)
Colonel Dauda Musa Komo (the former Military Governor of Rivers State who was instrumental in events leading up to the arrest and detention of Ken Saro-Wiwa)
Brigadier Mohammed Marwa (the popular and powerful former Military Governor of Lagos)
The almost 10 year period from May 1999 till the present is the longest period of time in Nigeria's history without a military coup. It is no coincidence that a coup failed to occur in the absence of the retired political officers.

Obasanjo also broke the northern stranglehold on leadership of the army. Since the overthrow of General Gowon in 1975, there have been 16 Chiefs of Army Staff. All but 3 of these 16 have been northerners. The three southerners to hold the post (Lt-General Alani Akinrinade, General Alexander Ogomudia and General Andrew Owoye Azazi) were all appointed by Obasanjo.


Thanks Max,
These are some of the silent but important achievements of this man tha some people failed to see and the reason why there is a lot of sponsored assaults against him.

But you know what, I look forward to a coup from a real professional soldier to clear this mess.

maxsiollun
Jan 5, 2009, 04:31 PM
Tonsoyo, please no more coups.:sad:

Remember that Nzeogwu, Murtala, Buhari and Babangida were all initially hailed as saviours.....


Thanks Max,
These are some of the silent but important achievements of this man tha some people failed to see and the reason why there is a lot of sponsored assaults against him.

But you know what, I look forward to a coup from a real professional soldier to clear this mess.

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 04:45 PM
I think you are twisting the tale here, one time you compare Obasanjo with all govt, another you compare him with just before 1979. For a proper perspective, compare Obasanjo tenure from 1999 with Shagari 1979-1983 and probably Pre 1966, as for UMYA, he is still in his second year and you have not produced any evidence that he has promoted once group over the other. you cannot in anyway compare OBJ time with the time of coup plotters, how do you expect people to plot coup and still follow normal ranking when they took risk and had pre-conceived idea before embarking on the coup, inshort, the coup plotters are misnormal and should not be compared with democracy.
NB, i have not disagreed or agreed with your OBJ Merit parameter praise, I rather look at it from a level playground to be able to judge. so please make the appropriate comparison for us to agree or disagree with you.

Shagari's military appointments are there for comparison. If you were too young to remeber those, you can make your research. All I can say is it was lopsided against the southerners. Shagari was eleceted and he was not a coupist.

A situation where the Minister of defence, the chief of army staff, his chief defence adviser Moukhtar, the Director-general of the SSS, and most GOCs in the army are notherners does not speak too good about YA rerspect for the principle of federal character. Look at the major ministries and their ministers the apttern is also there. Is YA a coup plotter?
The history is there for you to research. Of course you choose to agree or disagree with whatever suits you based on your own bias. Facts should remain sacred. Max has drawn from the facts of history and we are here to attest to it. The point is what do you disagree with in all these?
The other point is soldiers who carry out coups are cowards. The job specification and training of a military officer does not include coup making. The coupists use their ethnic allegiance and followership to overthrow legitimate government while people are sleeping.

The only difference is when coupists overthrow another coupist in government because that is the only way you can change governance. In strict miliatry evaluation, people like Buhari, IBB, and Abacha are cowards who would not have made much progress in the military without coups. They failed woefully in legitimate military pursuits.

maxsiollun
Jan 5, 2009, 04:59 PM
For reference, Shagari's senior security appointments were:

Defence Secretary: Iya Abubakar/Akanbi Oniyangi (both north)
Chief of Defence Staff: Lt-Gen Mohammed Wushishi (north)
Chief of Army Staff: Lt-Gen Gibson Jalo (north)
Chief of Air Staff: Dominic Bello (north)
Chief of Naval Staff: Vice-Admiral Akin Aduwo (south-west)
Inspector General of Police: Sunday Adewusi (south-west)
C/O Brigade of Guards: Colonel Bello Kaliel (north)

The plotters who overthrew him included:

Major-General Ibrahim Babangida - Director of Army Staff Duties and Plans (north)
Major-General Muhammadu Buhari - GOC, 3 Armoured Division (north)
Brigadier Ibrahim Bako (north)
Brigadier Tunde Idiagbon - Military Secretary (north)
Brigadier Sani Abacha - c/o - 9th mechanised Brigade, Ikeja (north)
Major-General Mohammed Magoro (north)

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/articles/max-siollun/babangida-his-life-and-times-part-3-the-return-of-the-mili-2.html

Osibinaebi
Jan 5, 2009, 06:10 PM
Chief of Defence Staff: Lt-Gen Mohammed Wushishi (north)
Chief of Army Staff: Lt-Gen Gibson Jalo (north)
Chief of Air Staff: Dominic Bello (north)
Chief of Naval Staff: Vice-Admiral Akin Aduwo (south-west)
Inspector General of Police: Sunday Adewusi (south-west)


A brief list of appointment given by Max, Ok now the question is the lopsidedness in this appointment based on region . This is very obvious in the list above, but the point is for someone like EWURO to prove that the officers were appointed solely based on their ethnic stock and that their seniors in the military were bypassed. For instance, it must be shown that a senior officer of another ethnic stock was serving while Gibson Jalo was choosen over him ditto for Bello and Aduwo.
Another point i will like to stress is the fact that it is unfair to equate North with Hausa fulani or equate the Northwest to the Northeast and the North Central. Gibson Jalo is definitely not Hausa. Dominic Bello is also not hausa or Fulani. Also considering the Civil war i doubt if any Igbo was high ranking enough to make such post as at the time Shagari was in power. Lets not also forget that when OBj first came,the service chiefs were from the middle belt and the North also cried foul play, at that time i felt they had no case. The booty called Nigeria belonged to all Nigerian, and so no one should be robbed of position beacause someone from a region close by aready had the post.

Namio
Jan 5, 2009, 06:36 PM
Osi my brother,

As far as Igbo is concern, you can make a Gowon out of any of the Igbo officers and promote him or her as a message of unity.

You must also understand that Gowon, Abacha and Babangida while not Fulani danced and obey their (Fulani) will. So are the so called Northern Yoruba like Idiagbon.

Yes, Abacha dared Dansuki but he also dared Babangida and Buhari who cowed to him as crazeman of the first order.

If anything the point you are trying to make weighs heavily against you and you may be making Tonsoyo and Ewuro happy inadvertently.


Also considering the Civil war i doubt if any Igbo was high ranking enough to make such post as at the time Shagari was in power. Lets not also forget that when OBj first came,the service chiefs were from the middle belt and the North also cried foul play, at that time i felt they had no case. The booty called Nigeria belonged to all Nigerian, and so no one should be robbed of position beacause someone from a region close by aready had the post.

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 06:42 PM
Chief of Defence Staff: Lt-Gen Mohammed Wushishi (north)
Chief of Army Staff: Lt-Gen Gibson Jalo (north)
Chief of Air Staff: Dominic Bello (north)
Chief of Naval Staff: Vice-Admiral Akin Aduwo (south-west)
Inspector General of Police: Sunday Adewusi (south-west)


A brief list of appointment given by Max, Ok now the question is the lopsidedness in this appointment based on region . This is very obvious in the list above, but the point is for someone like EWURO to prove that the officers were appointed solely based on their ethnic stock and that their seniors in the military were bypassed. For instance, it must be shown that a senior officer of another ethnic stock was serving while Gibson Jalo was choosen over him ditto for Bello and Aduwo.
Another point i will like to stress is the fact that it is unfair to equate North with Hausa fulani or equate the Northwest to the Northeast and the North Central. Gibson Jalo is definitely not Hausa. Dominic Bello is also not hausa or Fulani. Also considering the Civil war i doubt if any Igbo was high ranking enough to make such post as at the time Shagari was in power. Lets not also forget that when OBj first came,the service chiefs were from the middle belt and the North also cried foul play, at that time i felt they had no case. The booty called Nigeria belonged to all Nigerian, and so no one should be robbed of position beacause someone from a region close by aready had the post.
What you failed to realise is people were retired from other ethnic stock to pave way for the favoured ones. It was mentioned here that Akinriande was the most senior army officer when Obasanjo handed over to Shagari. He succeded Danjuma as the chief of army staff. I also mentioned until 1979 Ondo state alone, not to mention of other Western and Bendel states had more generals in the army than any other state. Shagari administartion got them retired to pave way for his favoured ones. Unfortunately for him, they were the same set of officers who overthrew him. If this does not convince you, a good research into all these would put you right. Ewuro draws from historical facts some of which Max had shown.

As to your point about people like Gibson jalo not being hauasa-fulani, we know that. We also know the influence which the late sardauna had on the northern minorities and their joining the army. For instance, names like Yakubu Gowon was actually Joseph Gowon. This why his friends call him Jack till today. Do you ever wonder while he bears Yakubu while his brother remains Moses Gowon?
The next best thing the hausa could rely upon if they do not find a suitable candidate is some nothern minorities.

maxsiollun
Jan 5, 2009, 07:07 PM
The coup plotting culture caused a massive discombobulation of the army chain of command where junior officers were often promoted above the head of their superiors - often causing disaffection and motivating future coup plots.

Examples:


Then Maj-Gen Domkat Bali (one of the last Sandhurst trained artillery officers in the army) had to serve under his juniors like Muhammadu Buhari and IBB.

Commodore Ukiwe was commissioned into the military before ALL members of the AFRC he served in as of 1985 (including the head of state IBB himself). As a comparison to how senior Ukiwe was, he joined the navy in 1963 only 6 months after Danjuma joined. Yet while Danjuma was a Lt-Gen in 1976, Ukiwe was still marking time as a Commodore nearly a decade later!

Even coursemates promotions are discombobulated. Coursemates often had to serve under each other. e.g. Lt-Gens Salihu Ibrahim, Joshua Dogonyaro, Oladipo Diya, Mamman Kontagora, Col Bello Kaliel, Rear-Admiral Allison Madueke and Maj-Gen Ishola Williams were all pioneer members of the Nigerian Defence Academy's first graduating class. Yet some of them had to serve under each other and were promoted ahead of each other. Ibrahim and Dogonyaro were Lt-Gens while their coursemates Williams and Madueke became junior to them.

Osibinaebi
Jan 5, 2009, 07:16 PM
What you failed to realise is people were retired from other ethnic stock to pave way for the favoured ones. It was mentioned here that Akinriande was the most senior army officer when Obasanjo handed over to Shagari. He succeded Danjuma as the chief of army staff. I also mentioned until 1979 Ondo state alone, not to mention of other Western and Bendel states had more generals in the army than any other state. Shagari administartion got them retired to pave way for his favoured ones. Unfortunately for him, they were the same set of officers who overthrew him. If this does not convince you, a good research into all these would put you right. Ewuro draws from historical facts some of which Max had shown.

As to your point about people like Gibson jalo not being hauasa-fulani, we know that. We also know the influence which the late sardauna had on the northern minorities and their joining the army. For instance, names like Yakubu Gowon was actually Joseph Gowon. This why his friends call him Jack till today. Do you ever wonder while he bears Yakubu while his brother remains Moses Gowon?
The next best thing the hausa could rely upon if they do not find a suitable candidate is some nothern minorities.






EWURO,
I am following you and you are surely unravelling the information i need to enable either agreeing or disagreeing with your conclusion. You did not mention those retired to pave way for Jalo and Bello in Shagari regime.( it is too much of generalization to say Ondo State had the highest number of officers). I also know for a fact that many senior officers retired either voluntarily or were ordered to do so by OBJ when he was leaving power, a good examples is the case of serving GOCs that had to go with OBJ, it will therefore be wrong to say it was Shagari that retired them to pave way for his own people. Then we come to the case of Aduwo and Adewusi, were there no senior officers retired to pave way for them or they were the most senior serving officers in their respective wing of the force.
Take the case of Abdulsalam that retired along side service chiefs and some senior officers, it will be wrong to say OBJ retired those set in 1999, but for officers like Komo et al , it was OBJ that gave them the boot, so what butress your position will be examples of senior officers that were retired by Shagari after he took office and not those that retired with the outgoing regime.

On the case of Gowon called Jack or Joseph, i will confidently say you got it wrong there straight and clear. As an insight, go read the Hausa bible and know that there is a clear distinction between names in hausa and names in english, it is easy to switch between David and Dauda.

maxsiollun
Jan 5, 2009, 07:22 PM
as an FYI, none of Shagari's service chiefs were Hausa or Fulani.

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 07:52 PM
EWURO,
I am following you and you are surely unravelling the information i need to enable either agreeing or disagreeing with your conclusion. You did not mention those retired to pave way for Jalo and Bello in Shagari regime.( it is too much of generalization to say Ondo State had the highest number of officers). I also know for a fact that many senior officers retired either voluntarily or were ordered to do so by OBJ when he was leaving power, a good examples is the case of serving GOCs that had to go with OBJ, it will therefore be wrong to say it was Shagari that retired them to pave way for his own people. Then we come to the case of Aduwo and Adewusi, were there no senior officers retired to pave way for them or they were the most senior serving officers in their respective wing of the force.
Take the case of Abdulsalam that retired along side service chiefs and some senior officers, it will be wrong to say OBJ retired those set in 1999, but for officers like Komo et al , it was OBJ that gave them the boot, so what butress your position will be examples of senior officers that were retired by Shagari after he took office and not those that retired with the outgoing regime.

On the case of Gowon called Jack or Joseph, i will confidently say you got it wrong there straight and clear. As an insight, go read the Hausa bible and know that there is a clear distinction between names in hausa and names in english, it is easy to switch between David and Dauda.

A 30-year gap is a long time to recall names easily. Suffice it to say Akinriande was promoted from a GOC to Chief of army staff to succeed Danjuma. So the GOCs were not retired as you have claimed.

I remember the only people had to go with the regime were the service chiefs and the chief of staff supreme headquarters. Between 79 and 83 quite a number of Yoruba and Bendelites had to leave because of retirement or discontent. Max seems to have researched the Nigerian military, maybe he could provide names. Akinrinade left as a result of discontent.

The thing about Ondo came up regularly in the newspapers those days. People like maj general Oluleye, Bajowa, Olutoye, Abisoye,aduwo, Oni, Aduloju, and many more that I cannot recall were prominent. There were also generals like Inih and from bendel. Jemibewon was another one from old Kwara.

Osibinaebi
Jan 5, 2009, 08:18 PM
I will wait and see if MAX has a record of those retired,

But a quick look at the Nigeria Army website shows that Jalo was even a senior to Akinrinade in the ARMY, so why did Shagari bypassed Jalo and choose Akinrinade, so i believe we should not make accusations that have no basis. Clearly the appointment of Akinrinade over Jalo shows that there were other reasons taken into consideration, it is therefore wrong to think Shagari was going the ethnic way. While the Jalo case may be in isolation, we cannot generalize the way the appointment were made to be due to ethnic affiliations

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 08:47 PM
I will wait and see if MAX has a record of those retired,

But a quick look at the Nigeria Army website shows that Jalo was even a senior to Akinrinade in the ARMY, so why did Shagari bypassed Jalo and choose Akinrinade, so i believe we should not make accusations that have no basis. Clearly the appointment of Akinrinade over Jalo shows that there were other reasons taken into consideration, it is therefore wrong to think Shagari was going the ethnic way. While the Jalo case may be in isolation, we cannot generalize the way the appointment were made to be due to ethnic affiliations

Provide us with that link please. Where it says Jalo was a senior to Akinriade?

maxsiollun
Jan 5, 2009, 09:02 PM
Akinrinade was commissioned in Dec 1962. According to the army's website, Jalo was originally "granted Short Service Commission in the rank of Second Lieutenant effective 4 Nov 1960. He later converted to Regular Combatant Commission on 4 Nov 63."



http://www.nigerian-army.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=0
http://www.nigerian-army.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=0

For the record, it was OBJ who appointed Akinrinade COAS, and left him behind for Shagari. Shagari then created a new post (CDS) and appointed Akinrinade to the post, and brought in Jalo as the new COAS.

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 09:13 PM
Akinrinade was commissioned in Dec 1962. According to the army's website, Jalo was originally "granted Short Service Commission in the rank of Second Lieutenant effective 4 Nov 1960. He later converted to Regular Combatant Commission on 4 Nov 63."



http://www.nigerian-army.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=0
http://www.nigerian-army.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=0

For the record, it was OBJ who appointed Akinrinade COAS, and left him behind for Shagari. Shagari then created a new post (CDS) and appointed Akinrinade to the post, and brought in Jalo as the new COAS.
Once again Max has provided a more authoritative and reliable answer.

Osibinaebi
Jan 5, 2009, 09:17 PM
Provide us with that link please. Where it says Jalo was a senior to Akinriade? Even Obasanjo joined the army six months before Akinrinade. This makes Akinriade a senior to people like Danjuma and even Murtala Mohammed. So that statement cannot be true.

This is what the Nigerian Army website has on both Akinrinade and Jalo

LT GEN IA AKINRINADE (N/297) (Rtd) CFR FSS
1. Lt Gen Ipoola Alani Akinrinade was born on 3 Oct 1939 at Yakoyo near Ile Ife in Oyo State. He has his Secondary School education at Offa Grammer School. He started his officer cadet training at the then Royal Nigeria Military Forces Training College Kaduna in April 1960. He then proceeded to the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst in United Kingdom for further regular officer cadet training in August 1960. He was granted Regular Combatant Commission on 20 Dec 62, in the rank of second Lieutenant with seniority in same rank with effect from 5 Aug 61. He was of the Infantry Corps and rose to the rank of Lieutenant General before he voluntarily retired from service with effect from 2 Oct 81.

http://www.nigerian-army.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=49&Itemid=0

LT GEN GS JALLO (N/114) (Rtd) CFR FSS JSSC
1. Lt Gen Gibson Sanda Jailo (deceased) was born on 20 Mar 1939 at Densa in Adamawa State. He attended the Native Authority Elementary School, Numan, between 1946 and 1949, Yola Middle School from 1950 - 1953 and Government College Keffi from 1953 - 1958.
He enlisted into the Royal Nigerian Military Force (RNMF) in 1959. He attended his officer's training at Royal West African Frontier Force Training School, Teshi Ghana and was granted Short Service Commission in the rank of Second Lieutenant effective 4 Nov 1960. He later converted to Regular Combatant Commission on 4 Nov 63. He was the COAS before his voluntary retirement on 3 Mar 84. He was of the Infantry Corps.
http://www.nigerian-army.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=0

Below is a summary of their promotions from the same Army website
Akinrinade Rank Jallo
29 Mar 1963 Lt. 7 Apr 1962
29. Mar 1965 Capt. 20. Sept. 1964
10 Jun 1967 Maj. 10 Jun 1967
11 May 1968 Lt. Col. 11 May 1968
1 October 1972 Col. 1 Apr. 1970
1 October 1974 Brig. Gen. 1 October 1973
1 Jan. 1976 Maj. Gen. 1 Jan. 1976
2. Oct 1979 Lt. gen. 15.apr. 1980[/B]

Osibinaebi
Jan 5, 2009, 09:23 PM
Once again Max has provided a more authoritative and reliable answer.

So why did Obasajo do it that way before leaving( bypassing Jalo for his Junior), do we assume Shagari was correcting what Obasanjo did wrong going strictly by seniority.:D:D:D:D

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 10:01 PM
So why did Obasajo do it that way before leaving( bypassing Jalo for his Junior), do we assume Shagari was correcting what Obasanjo did wrong going strictly by seniority.:D:D:D:D

I cannot answer that question. For one reason or the other, they assume seniority based on passing military examinations, an act of bravery or loyality, ethnic affiliations. Akinriade became prominent because of the role he played as GOC during Dimka's coup. He was the first to go on air saying the coup had nothing to do with the whole military, That it was just a lagos affair. Maybe his loyality earned it or some other reasons. However he became a regular combatant before Jalo, by the account of that website. What is important they became A major general the same date. So that seniority between them is not clear cut.
So they were both Major Generals when Obasnjo appointed him. Again Shagari did not seek to correct, he created a non-influential post called CDS and moved Akiriande up. The man resigned, he then moved jalo up to create way for Wushishi.

Ewuro
Jan 5, 2009, 10:18 PM
This is an iteresting article for this debate:
http://nigeriaworld.com/feature/publication/oduyela/082404.html


One thing that was not clear to Buhari and others was that there was another coup within their own coup. The position of the Chief of Army Staff was for Bako, the man who was to deliver Shagari, but Babangida was also interested in that same position. He knew why he wanted it. It was to position himself for eventual take over from Buhari. All the General Officers Commanding report to the Chief of Army Staff, that was the chain of command before 1985. They do not report to the Head of state or President directly, and to succeed in any coup, you need these GOCs, since they are in direct contact with the soldiers and whatever may be needed for the coup, in terms of troops, weapons and ammunitions. To displace Bako, a plan was hatched to bring someone in to coordinate the coup in Abuja, the man now a Senator was recalled from Harare where he was serving, though he was to coordinate the coup in Abuja, his actual mission was to stop Bako.

Eventually Bako died in the coup allegedly shot from the back. But no one ever queried that. That he was shot from the back showed clearly that he did not die during gun battle but was killed. It was a case of a coup within a coup.

At the early stage of the coup planning, Ibrahim Babangida was sent to General Domkat Bali, to feel the latter's pulse. Bali advised him to give the civilian time to sort themselves out. To Bali it was Babangida who was planning the coup, but it dawned on him that Babangida was not the man behind the coup but an errand boy. He was on his way to Langtang and he stopped over to say hi to the GOC 3rd Armoured Division, Jos, Buhari was the GOC and it was then that Buhari now asked Bali again if it was time to strike, this is about the end of 1983 and Bali said yes. They struck and Shagari was removed. Bali was in that government, though he was the most senior officer, Babangida was made the Chief of Army Staff.

Some of Babangida's seniors were forced to retire because they could not stand him being their chief, but they paid dearly for it.

Zamani Lekwot was one of them, and this was why he was arrested for the Sango Kataf crisis, he was roped into the crisis by IBB to get even with the man. Thank God Zamani Lekwot is still alive to tell his stories.

As Chief of Army Staff, he was able to win some of the GOCs; Abacha was the GOC 2nd Mechanised Division, Ibadan then. He used the office judiciously. But before the Buhari coup, when Shagari took over, Babangida and some Northern officers had advised against leaving Alani Akinrinade as Chief of Army Staff, to them, it was not safe for Shagari, the Grade II teacher and Nigeria's first (s)elected Executive President knew nothing, he was advised to ease out Akinrinade. How did they achieve this?

The position that never existed in the history of the Nigerian Army was created and after their aim was achieved it was scrapped. Shagari asked Akirinade to write a blue print on duties of a Chief of Defence Staff a new position to be created; the unsuspecting Akinriande did not know he was preparing his new office. He was later made the Chief of Defence Staff. With Akinrinade's promotion to redundancy, Gen Jalo, now late, became the Chief of Army Staff. Something happened that never happened in the history of the Nigerian Army and did not happen there after. The post of a Deputy Chief of Army Staff was created and General Wushishi was appointed as the Deputy Chief of Army Staff. Babangida led the group of those who contrived the concept of the D-COAS.

Having being isolated, Lt. Gen. Alani Akinrinade retired and Jalo was made the Chief of Defence Staff while Wushishi became the COAS and the position of D-COAS was scrapped. Ironically, the same Babangida who schemed out Akinrinade now invited him back to serve in his government and surprisingly Akinrinade accepted.

Osibinaebi
Jan 5, 2009, 11:42 PM
I cannot answer that question. For one reason or the other, they assume seniority based on passing military examinations, an act of bravery or loyality, ethnic affiliations. Akinriade became prominent because of the role he played as GOC during Dimka's coup. He was the first to go on air saying the coup had nothing to do with the whole military, That it was just a lagos affair. Maybe his loyality earned it or some other reasons. However he became a regular combatant before Jalo, by the account of that website. What is important they became A major general the same date. So that seniority between them is not clear cut.
So they were both Major Generals when Obasnjo appointed him. Again Shagari did not seek to correct, he created a non-influential post called CDS and moved Akiriande up. The man resigned, he then moved jalo up to create way for Wushishi.

Going through all these accounts show that it is outside the purview of we public commentator to account for officer promotions in a democratic setting. Outside the coup plotters promotions which follows no protocol other than participants and loyalty. It is therefore wrong to proclaim Obasanjo being better than Shagari or any other democratic elected leader in Nigeria in military appointment without knowing the inner working of the military.i personally do not believe Akinrinade was promoted by Obj based on ethnic affiliation, but if we go with logic being pushed by those saying Obj balanced things out while Shagari entrenched bias, then obviously, OBJ will be guilty in the Jalo/Akinrinade seniority/promotion. I submit that OBJ has done nothing whatsoever since he came back in 1999 with any measure of integrity other than what has his personal and selfish interest at the expense of the whole nigeria people be it yoruba his own ethnic stock or igbo or ogoni or hausa. the man OBASANJO is simple evil.

Ewuro
Jan 6, 2009, 08:54 AM
Going through all these accounts show that it is outside the purview of we public commentator to account for officer promotions in a democratic setting. Outside the coup plotters promotions which follows no protocol other than participants and loyalty. It is therefore wrong to proclaim Obasanjo being better than Shagari or any other democratic elected leader in Nigeria in military appointment without knowing the inner working of the military.i personally do not believe Akinrinade was promoted by Obj based on ethnic affiliation, but if we go with logic being pushed by those saying Obj balanced things out while Shagari entrenched bias, then obviously, OBJ will be guilty in the Jalo/Akinrinade seniority/promotion. I submit that OBJ has done nothing whatsoever since he came back in 1999 with any measure of integrity other than what has his personal and selfish interest at the expense of the whole nigeria people be it yoruba his own ethnic stock or igbo or ogoni or hausa. the man OBASANJO is simple evil.
Well, that is your opinion. I believe in a balanced judgement of people, not a wholesome condemnation. I use criteria to score points. Somebody might score 20% in criteria A and the same person may score 80% in criteria B. Even if someone comes out a failure overall, that does not mean, he is not done well in certain aspects. Max has a more objective view in my candid opinion. I believe you will hold on to your estimation of OBJ forever, even if 100 Max and 100 Ewuro provide you with evidences to the contrary. This ends the so called debate on my part.