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UncleTisha
Jan 15, 2008, 02:28 PM
Hi All,

I hereby challenge anyone to come on board here to slug it out on the above subject.

I shall be writing in this clash of the titan on the following reasons:

1. A look at the patriach called Chief Aremu Olusegun Obasanjo
2. An introspection into the Obasanjo family with special emphasis on the Owu clan
3. The Man named Gbenga Obasanjo, his life and family!
4. The African-Yoruba culture bordering on parental respect.
5. Why i am of the opinion that Gbenga goofed heavily.
6. The lady called Mojisola Obasanjo
7. The fate of Wuraola and Boluwatife Obasanjo- The children of "unknown" paternity
8 "In-Marriage secrets"- Let it remain secrets no matter what!
9. Juxtaposing and dissecting the pivotal differences between the African culture and the westernization of our psychological well-being
10. The way forward- Casting blames, etal.

I would also want an unbiased moderator as this will be a highly sensitive debate!

I am also open to have co-debater(s) on my side.

I eagerly await a response.

Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)


I hereby put myself on WaleAkin's side, principally on what respect for parents/elders and what the family name means.

Thanks

lizmoses
Jan 15, 2008, 02:43 PM
I wish to support WaleAkin's motion. Since Oga Shoko has said we can fight with all we have, I'll also add 'on the basis of Divine Law'

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 02:57 PM
Hi Busanga, Uncle Tisha & Lizmoses,

To give this issue a head start, i'd suggest that we appoint Celticologist and EMJ as Moderators.

If yes, kindly let me know so i can submit my initial points for Busanga to tackle headlong.


Cheers,
Wale Akin

(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

UncleTisha
Jan 15, 2008, 03:03 PM
WaleAkin et al,

I have no issues with the chosen moderators.

Thanks

lizmoses
Jan 15, 2008, 03:16 PM
WaleAkin,

Like Uncle Tisha, I am comfortable with the chosen moderators but I believe the decision should be between Busanga and yourself since you're both the lead speakers.

Concerning Busanga's request if you'd like to consult with our group, I'll say he should be the one to break it down himself. In this case, I think research of all sorts should be carried out like looking up dictionary and wikipedia for a start.

Just my opinion.

Cheers

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 03:24 PM
WaleAkin,

Like Uncle Tisha, I am comfortable with the chosen moderators but I believe the decision should be between Busanga and yourself since you're both the lead speakers.

Concerning Busanga's request if you'd like to consult with our group, I'll say he should be the one to break it down himself. In this case, I think research of all sorts should be carried out like looking up dictionary and wikipedia for a start.

Just my opinion.

Cheers

The moderators are fine by me. But since I did not throw the challenge, the individual propositioning should lay out his point so I dont end up arguing against or with myself. Sounds good?

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 03:24 PM
WaleAkin,

Like Uncle Tisha, I am comfortable with the chosen moderators but I believe the decision should be between Busanga and yourself since you're both the lead speakers.

Concerning Busanga's request if you'd like to consult with our group, I'll say he should be the one to break it down himself. In this case, I think research of all sorts should be carried out like looking up dictionary and wikipedia for a start.

Just my opinion.

Cheers

Hi Liz,

EMJ respectfully declined the offer of a moderator and i do appreciate her prompt response. Lets await Celti.

I 'd also suggest either Abraxas or Eezeebee pls!

If we dont get a positive response in the next 15 minutes, i will submit my first points


Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

lizmoses
Jan 15, 2008, 03:32 PM
Hello,

EezeeBee sounds fine to me since the Don is quite a busy man:D

lizmoses
Jan 15, 2008, 04:16 PM
Shoko,

I think Busanga is the one who is at a disadvantage and as you rightly said, WaleAkin may need to give him some time to also get some people on his side of the fence. Else, if we decide to pull him now, we might just dismember him:D

Myne Whitman
Jan 15, 2008, 04:20 PM
Well done guys. I am looking forward to this debate especially if it follows the interesting points raised by WaleAkin.

It's going to be very educative, abi informative a ti be be loo...

WallaceBobo
Jan 15, 2008, 04:20 PM
Ok, I'll be on busanga's side. WaleAkin, lets have your points!

Tekena
Jan 15, 2008, 04:38 PM
too much talk. make una start.

dem
Jan 15, 2008, 04:41 PM
I'm going to align myself with Busanga's side. Mr B, let me know when we start.

Bunch17
Jan 15, 2008, 04:45 PM
I'm going to align myself with Busanga's side. Mr B, let me know when we start.

I am with Busanga also.

Bunch17
Jan 15, 2008, 04:50 PM
I'm going to align myself with Busanga's side. Mr B, let me know when we start.

I am with Busanga also.

ikechiji
Jan 15, 2008, 05:01 PM
I am with Busanga also.

Ditto. Wale is yet to make one valid point on the topic of the debate. I'll wait for Busanga's lead before chiming in.

Vade Mecum
Jan 15, 2008, 05:09 PM
Hello All,

I am on the side of Wale Akin and his powerful crew.

Busanga and his people make unu beware: the ides of march :lol::biggrin::D



Abeg Make unu allow, Shokos moderate at least, the first three debates.

This is his idea, and we are still experimenting. We should allow

him to finish unfolding his plans and attempt to graciously

perfect this project, before handing it over.


Moreover, any one whose views on a topic is already well

known, should not be called in to moderate a debate on that

topic.


Thank you.

Tony

pappilo
Jan 15, 2008, 05:09 PM
I align with Busanga in this case.

I refer to the rape case involving former Nigerian international, Godwin Okpara (http://www.soccerway.com/news/2007/June/01/former-nigerian-football-player-sentenced-to-13-years-for-rape ) to prove to you guys that this argument is a non starter and should be buried dead in the water. When it is a case of sexual immorality or sexual abuse, respect for elders should be thrown out of the window and the law should be allowed to take its course as it was in the case involving Godwin Okpara.

WaleAkin I ask; should that young girl have respected Godwin Okpara because he is her step-dad (elder) and acted as if nothing happened?

smartomoge
Jan 15, 2008, 05:18 PM
I have been struggling to hold my tongue, but I cannot help it any longer. I gats to talk. Busanga, I dey ya back like Dele. Support the elders no matter what? I gats so many stories, and I tell you , this culture has gats change!! Oh my!!!:mad::mad::mad:

ikoyiesho1
Jan 15, 2008, 05:21 PM
Oga Wale Akin, would you please post a topic and lets see the sense in it.
why holding on to your points at first, i am beginning to think you are one of those baba go slow, abi yar adu'a be your uncle.

make your point.

Ikoyi esho 1...

(Lets be more active in well doing, the devil can run miles while we are still buckling our boots).

salstep
Jan 15, 2008, 05:27 PM
Busanga, i got ur back.



I am fed up with this elder tosh. Papa shine DIL congo, how that come be Gbenga fault. Walakin, abeg leave this matter. Just pray this kind thing no happen to you cos there is no set way anyone will react.

Although still an allegation, i find it very hard for any son to make up a thing like this. Therefore, i will say OBJ is lucky to still be alive. If i was Gbenga i would have killed or maimed him by now.

Beam
Jan 15, 2008, 05:43 PM
WaleAkin

i am for you regarding not Disgracing one's father, or washing your dirty laundry in public, but i am yet to see where you are going with what you have already written.

well i am here waiting for the real debate to start

WallaceBobo
Jan 15, 2008, 05:49 PM
WaleAkin,

My quick thoughts on your comments...


In this particular discourse, this heavy responsibility falls on Gbenga Obasanjo- He has the moral rights to lay good and positive examples for the likes of Muyiwa Obasanjo and co, his behavioural attitudes should be above board as a true representation of the father, even if the Father is bad- Gbenga being the Dawodu must make sure the rest of the family stays strong and united in purpose, no matter the extreme nature of the father, Gbenga has the utmost responsibility to keep the unity fire burning in the family.

WaleAkin let me get this right, are you saying one should go to any length to keep the appearance of unity in a family? It seems to me its only the appearance of a unified family you're interested in. Surely, you can't expect Gbenga to be unified in spirit with his father after what Obj's been accused off? Would you consider it ok if Gbenga secretly hates his father but publicly praises him?


Boluwatife Obasanjo is the 5 year old son of Gbenga and Mojisola Obasanjo- I still have vivid memories of this particular age in my life- Bolu will NEVER forgive Gbenga, he deserves no forgiveness anyway and Gbenga need to go make adequate family ammendments so that the future of this boy would not be mortgaged by his sacrilegious act!!

Would the impact of Gbenga's hatred of Obj on the kids -Boluwatife etc, be less if was less public?

Beam
Jan 15, 2008, 06:18 PM
I was trained by both parents to prostrate flat when i greet them in the morning, returning from school in the afternoon and as neccesary. The traditional Yoruba tradition mandates all male children to do this as a form of respect and because the characters in this discourse are Yorubas, i shall limit my response to the Yoruba traditions.

I picked up my parents at Heathrow Airport this past summer and upon sighting them , prostrated flat in the full glare of everyone- I will NEVER allow my sojourn in the UK to becloud the good Nigerian trainings i was tutored, my Father responded by placing his RIGHT hand on my head and prayed vigorously in concentrated Ondo dialect!!

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo according to reports is known to be a strict Father and disciplinarian- even if we dont have the proofs, his military background says alot and i so sure he must have tutored Gbenga so well most especially since he is the 1st Male child. Parental respect is of high importance and they must be accorded no matter what!!

If Gbenga Obasanjo has this inbuilt and highly precious respect as highlighted above, he will not have the boldness to come forth and embarass his biological father- What is the job of the ELDERS- Nelson Mandela saw the need to gather elders of the Africa together so that the future of the African child can be guaranteed, he formed the ELDERSFORUM (http://http://www.theelders.org/). The elders are there to mediate, help us out when stuck, proffer lasting solutions to our problem- I refer to them as the BALM of GILEAD!

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is the Balogun of Owu- this chieftancy affords Gbenga to have a relationship with the Oba and his councils of Elders in preparation for him as the Balogun when his Father die, I am of the opinion that he should have sought audience with the Oba, report these indecent acts with sound proofs, allow the elders to mediate. Gbenga has done 3 things here by NOT reporting his father to the elders-
He has rubbished his family name
He has rubbished the Owu Dynasty
He has rubbished the Yoruba heritage of OMOLUABI

Speaking about my own biological Father- He is a strict no nonsense Man but he has this soft spot for his Immediate younger Brother, so when we have a lingering family issue where he is not ready to listen to us, we seek the face of this our loving Uncle and the case is closed! Gbenga as the Scion of the Obasanjo should have known someone in the family who has the heart of Obasanjo- why not report him to that person- All reasonable avenues MUST be expended.

I hereby submit to Busanga and co that Olugbenga Obasanjo lack the basic respects accorded to one's parents hence this undignified move.

Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)



Villagers,
Kindly follow my initial bullet points pls..................I am taking it one by each.

Thanks



what point are you on now? since you numbered them could you please just put the number.

WaleAkin, i am following you , but i am having trouble refering back to the bullet points.


I still agree with you. though i do have a question but i want you to finish your submission there is a possibilty you will touch on that particular issue soon.

DoubleWahala
Jan 15, 2008, 06:28 PM
All this 'down-the-memory-lane' sort of jist, which WaleAkin brings up, is, in my opinion, not really central to the discussion.

The question really is: if you find out that your father (or mother) is sleeping with your spouse, would you freak-out or not?

The taste of the pudding is in the eating. He who wears the shoe knows where it pinches.

DW

DoubleWahala
Jan 15, 2008, 06:51 PM
So, WaleAkin, in your opinion, does your submission above represent "a critical look at Gbenga Obasanjo's outburst"?

Why did you whet our collective appetite for nothing????

Mind yasef oh!! :)

DW

Faddy
Jan 15, 2008, 07:03 PM
SLB,

Thanks for seeking the clarification.

I support Busanga's position.

dem
Jan 15, 2008, 07:27 PM
Question for Wale Akin:


I have only met Chief Olusegun Obasanjo twice at close range, ....

I hereby submit to Busanga and Co that Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, former President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, a former Army General and Polygamist has excelled in the proper training of his children but this particular child named Gbenga is only being wayward.

......, i want to be associated with my Dad and stick to him in all manner of Ups and Downs.
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

I have never met Gen. Obasanjo - which is just as well, considering that my wife is incredibly pretty. But...

How is Gbenga wayward? He is undergoing a bitter divorce with his wife and has claimed in court that one of the reasons he is asking for a divorce is because his wife slept with his father. Are you saying he ought not to include this fact in his deposition? I ask because so far, I cannot tell if you frown at OBJ's behaviour but condemn Gbenga's mode of disclosure or your take is that it doesn't matter what a father does to a son. Our culture demands that the son grin and bear it.

Pls clearify.

Dem

Vade Mecum
Jan 15, 2008, 07:37 PM
Dear Air Chief Marshall Shokos,

I guess, you have also observed that Busanga and his people are not

debating by the rules. It is really difficult, knowing who exactly, is the lead debater.

As the Wale Akin group is law abiding, we sincerely beseech you, to use your

much exalted office as the moderator of this debate, to rescue this CRUCIBLE

from degenerating into the proverbial Portuguese parliament. Enough roforofo

plus Bolekaja tactics from Busanga and his people.

Tony

:D:D:D:lol::lol::lol::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Atomic Kitten
Jan 15, 2008, 08:20 PM
So, WaleAkin, in your opinion, does your submission above represent "a critical look at Gbenga Obasanjo's outburst"?

Why did you whet our collective appetite for nothing????

Mind yasef oh!! :)

DW



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::biggrin::biggrin::b iggrin::lol::lol::lol::D:D:D:D


Abeg have patience now. Wale Akin is just warming up for the final demolition of Busanga. :D

Ishola Taiwo
Jan 15, 2008, 08:24 PM
I dey wit WaleAkin here O (wey my odeku??!!)

Putting aside all previously held opinions regarding the actors in the drama under discussion...one true word remains true : Two wrongs do not make a right.

Tola Odejayi
Jan 15, 2008, 08:39 PM
Dear Air Chief Marshall Shokos,

I guess, you have also observed that Busanga and his people are not

debating by the rules. It is really difficult, knowing who exactly, is the lead debater.

As the Wale Akin group is law abiding, we sincerely beseech you, to use your

much exalted office as the moderator of this debate, to rescue this CRUCIBLE

from degenerating into the proverbial Portuguese parliament. Enough roforofo

plus Bolekaja tactics from Busanga and his people.

Tony

:D:D:D:lol::lol::lol::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Pastor Okosun,

There are no groups. Rather, there are just two debaters - Wale Akin and Busanga. Focus on what they say if you want to follow the debate.

.bebi
Jan 15, 2008, 08:42 PM
Obasanjo disgraced himself,not Gbenga.Gbenga exposed his dad in a court of law not in the newspapers.
Wale,u r being a tad bit sentimental.Obasanjo IMO is not the quintesential dad that has earned his children's respect.
Let the debate continue.

Silent Knight
Jan 15, 2008, 09:08 PM
If the 'couple' broke up in 2004 and Gbenga has been silent for 3 years.... there might be more to this than meets the eye. If the whole thing is true, then let it be known that anyone who is a victim of such a thing as this will be under serious mental torture and emotional blackmail / domestic wickedness.

Did Father continue to sleep with daughter even after giving her away in Marriage? Is it true that this is what realy led to the separation as alleged?

Obasanjo's case is not surprising [if true]. It's like accusing Adedibu[OBJ's best friend] of thuggery.

What has wife's father and wife's father-in-law been telling Gbenga all this while? Has he confronted them personally? SUrely he cannot be so stupid as to swear to this in court if it was a total fabrication.

Considering that the Father ad Father-in-law are powerful me in society, is Gbenga doin this to protect his life?

If the story is true, Gbenga might even be silenced by powerful people wanting to cover up their tracks......

For, the guy to go this way, he must be ready to walk away from it all... family and everything.

Gbenga, I support you o jare. You have to deal with your demons. Why keep quiet and pretend everything is alright when 2 of the most important people in your life have shamelessly and actively destroyed your home. Why suffer for other people's sins. If the story is true, why did the 'wife' file for divorce alleging battery rather than end the marriage quietly?

Why the intial conspiracy of silence? What changed?

I suggest you get police protection when in Naija. Remeber Bola Ige!!

ikechiji
Jan 15, 2008, 09:33 PM
Wale's submissions are anchored on the word tradition and "respect for elders".

Let me respectfully submit the following words of wisdom:

"We seek the wisdom of our forefathers
not so we may walk where they walked
but so we may travel farther"

denker
Jan 15, 2008, 11:38 PM
hi, folks!

what's wrong with nigerians? i was thinking that the purpose of creating crucible is to

discuss serious issues with great depth.

what i do get right now on dis thread is total and absolute banality...if i call you guys now

big monkeys, maybe i'll be crucified..i'll not do dat...i wouldn't call anybody here monkey,

but the actions and reactions are exactly equivalent to monkey's behavioral attributes...i

tire, no bi small...:mad:

dis rubbish here can be discussed on the main square section....let's talk about

revolutionary ideas..!

emj
Jan 15, 2008, 11:52 PM
Hmmmm........interesting Debate/Topic.......chei, am neither For nor Against, but unable to Moderate due to busy schedule and the fact that i have very Short attention span.....be dat as it may..........wat exactly are u guys Debating? Unsubstantiated Allegations? Or Beer Parlour Rumours? Long held notions and concerns ni abi da fact that what is not good is not good? Wat if u are told that Objoke does not pay for anything. If indeed he did Poke Moji, then da contracts she got was not on dat merit, she must have agreed to front to get them.....VQAS:eek::p

PS>>>>>>>>hope dat i've with this little submission of mine being able to confuse u guys.........(emj back to chopulating Farofa Mood, washed down with a criminally cold long drink):)(emj also in i can neva be a good moderator mood...not level headed enough)
http://www.sonia-portuguese.com/recipes/farofa.htm

Atomic Kitten
Jan 16, 2008, 12:14 AM
A husband cheating on his wife is totally different from a FIL cheating with the DIL.
This is like comparing apples and oranges.

Wale Akin's argument will be more persuasive if he can cite at least one example similar to, or closely related to Gbenga's situation and predicament, where the offended husband reacted differently.

Except someone is from a similar family background, with similar experience of betrayal such as Gbenga has suffered it will be near impossible to say with all certainty, how one would behave.

So far, Busanga's argument is more persuasive.

DoubleWahala
Jan 16, 2008, 12:28 AM
Shoko,

The moderator extraordinaire. :)

DW

Vade Mecum
Jan 16, 2008, 12:44 AM
Wale Akin,

In the debate, you're supposed to respond to the latest post of your opponent, not something they said a while ago. I notice that in your last post, you have responded the original post that Busanga made when he agreed to debate with you (#36) instead of responding to his latest post (#48). If you don't respond to the latest post, it becomes very confusing following the train of the debate.

If you wanted to respond to Busanga's original position, you should have done that in your very first response to him after he made that post. But that time has passed, and so we're waiting for a response to his latest post.


Shoko,

The moderator extraordinaire.

DW


Air Chief Marshall Shokos,

The very fact, that D.W., a well known Busanga strategist and tactician

has applauded you on your latest press release, should alert you to the

very fact, that the release, is actually an undeserved reprimand of

our eminently worthy and very resourceful debater, Wale Akin. Please

Wale Akin, should be allowed to submit his address to his sweet listening

audience. We are actually following Wale's argument effortlessly. Wale is

really making sense. We are being encouraged to respect our parents and

hold them in high esteem.


Wale's points are not in any way convoluted, they actually flow and we are

immensly proud to associate our humble selves with our very dear Wale Akin.

Go Wale go. Shildren like Gbenga must stop desecrating masquerades over

unsubstantiated allegations, just like Wale must be allowed to dish out his well

researched points as he deems fit, and also return and reply to sender, using his

full discretion.


The debater Wale, is indeed a great debater.


Tony

Egun Mogaji
Jan 16, 2008, 12:54 AM
I have been struggling to hold my tongue, but I cannot help it any longer. I gats to talk. Busanga, I dey ya back like Dele. Support the elders no matter what? I gats so many stories, and I tell you , this culture has gats change!! Oh my!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Busanga,

I dey you side

:cool::cool:


I would wait and see your response before I make a comment.

Tola Odejayi
Jan 16, 2008, 01:17 AM
Hello Tony,

I'm not trying to put Wale Akin down, and if that is the impression that my last post conveys, then I apologise to Wale Akin.

My considerations are for people who want to follow the debate - I'm trying to make it as easy for them as possible. I believe that a good debate should be like a good conversation - correspondents usually respond to the immediate question or comment that has been made. Imagine if you were talking to someone, and instead of answering your direct question, he referred to something you said an hour ago in the conversation. Wouldn't you be confused?

I'm not saying that Wale Akin cannot respond to older comments of Busanga's - but he should make it clear that he is doing so, otherwise people who are reading the posts will wonder where he has dug up that comment of Busanga's, since they cannot see it in the more recent part of the thread.

Kenn
Jan 16, 2008, 01:20 AM
Hi All,

I hereby challenge anyone to come on board here to slug it out on the above subject.

I shall be writing in this clash of the titan on the following reasons:

1. A look at the patriach called Chief Aremu Olusegun Obasanjo
2. An introspection into the Obasanjo family with special emphasis on the Owu clan
3. The Man named Gbenga Obasanjo, his life and family!
4. The African-Yoruba culture bordering on parental respect.
5. Why i am of the opinion that Gbenga goofed heavily.
6. The lady called Mojisola Obasanjo
7. The fate of Wuraola and Boluwatife Obasanjo- The children of "unknown" paternity
8 "In-Marriage secrets"- Let it remain secrets no matter what!
9. Juxtaposing and dissecting the pivotal differences between the African culture and the westernization of our psychological well-being
10. The way forward- Casting blames, etal.

I would also want an unbiased moderator as this will be a highly sensitive debate!

I am also open to have co-debater(s) on my side.

I eagerly await a response.

Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)




People,


I am at a loss as to what is going on here. If this is a debate, I do not think WaleAkin has framed the proposition properly. You need to frame the proposition properly to get opposition. What I see going on here is a mere discussion based on news. All Wale has done is to highlight the aspects of the news he wants to discuss and others are joining him – agreeing and disagreeing. I cannot even recognise Shoko's tentative guidelines at work nor am I able to make out from what is going on who and who exactly are the de facto debating opponents. It's like everyone is just piling on, saying their bit. I see no structure and I see no way this can qualify as any different from what we do in other threads on the site. It does not in any way show the uniqueness of The Crucible. I actually prefer Katampe's earlier proposition. That was closer to what we should be aiming for.


CHEERS!

Egun Mogaji
Jan 16, 2008, 01:32 AM
Wuraola and Boluwatife Obasanjo-I have a strong pitiance for these children, i met one of the sons of the late Chief Okotie-Eboh at a gathering in 2006, he has changed his name to XYZ-ABC, the new name has no reflection of the compound name Okotie-Eboh and he has a strong reason. If we are not careful, these innocent children will live with this stigma for the rest of their lives, by the declaration of Gbenga Obasanjo, they have traditionally become bast.ards, they will henceforth be looked down upon at school, even if the paternity case is settled and Chief Obasanjo is declared the father- the case is more worsened!

We have a duty to protect our children, Gbenga is outrightly selfish in his quest to get his father nailed and buried, come to think about this: reports has it that he's being seperated from Mojisola since 2005, why wait such a long time before firing the legal shots? Do we have some latent factors not declared?

The name OBASANJO going by the allegations of Gbenga is in deep shi.t- many of the female Obasanjos will need to work extra to get good husbands- Many Nigerian parents will totally reject a marriage to the Obasanjo family- An Aunty-in-Law of mine disallowed her only daughter from a marrying a guy whose parents are divorced- It took the intervention of the whole family.

Chief Alex Onabanjo and Mojisola Obasanjo
Moji confided in Gbenga that her father slept with her as a teenager- I doff my hat for her on this declaration, if she truly did this- She must really LOVE Gbenga so much and i respect this. Couples share alot of secrets in their holy matrimonies and these secrets MUST forever remain classified info to be taken to the grave- I hereby submit that Gbenga is not matured to keep a woman under his roof.

I also condemn in strong terms if truly Chief Alex Onabanjo slept with his daughter, Mojisola- He should be tied to a stake and shot dead! How on earth would the nakedness of your own biological daughter be erotic and appealing to a sane father? I once again salute the courage of Moji to have the temerity to share such highly classified info with Gbenga- She's a lady in a million!You dont get the wife you want at an instant- What you get is the raw material to be moulded


Cut it off Busanga- This same absurd act propels our Nigerian ladies resident in the UK and/or US to call 999 at the slightest provocation to bring police officers to mediate in marital issues- I cant fathom the fact that a Gay Police officer or a divorcee or a single person would come into my house to mediate, how do we juxtapose this pls?


I am sick of this corrupt western life we tend to copy. When Bill Clinton had that fling with Monica, Hillary and Chelsea stood by him- These are the same people whose culture we are copying! Theres nothing like that entity called FAMILY. When David Beckham also had a fling with Rebecca Loos, Victoria brushed it aside and saved David- The children are more important than anything else!


"He who hath no sin, let him/her cast the first stone". How many of you here on NVS not to talk about the entire Nigeria as a whole will embarass their fathers if caught in this act?

I conclude this part with this Yoruba phrase "Olorun a fun wa lomo ti o ma da'so ASIRI bo gbogbo wa ohhhh"- May the infinite God gives us all good children who will keep our secret info secret!


Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)



Hmmm....
I acknowledge your pro-traditioon stance.
And I have read with a wry smile your defence of it, and I have a question which you might like to think about.
Why is it that the negative parts of any culture, is the one that gets the most attention?
Yoruba Culture, Western Culture, all cultures in fact, are based around the theme of humamity. There are positives and there are negatives but the one strand common in all cultures is REASON.
When a decision is taken not because of the merits, but because it is what has been done before, can you imagine the kind of world we would live in?

It is unreasonable to defend someone on hearsay. Nothing you have said so far would stand up to scrutiny under the cold light of day.
To each their own, but there has to be a point where you say..enough.
Why are there so many of us in the diaspora, as it is called these days?
Nigeria has a place for all of us but the truth is we want better for ourselves than what Nigeria can realistically give us.

Prostrate anywhere you like if that floats yur boat. It don't add to respect. It's gesture politicking. To move forward further, we have to take the blinkers off.
While you can defend your family, you must not condone what is not right.

It's quite simple.

Life is so easy but we people make it all complicated.

Tola Odejayi
Jan 16, 2008, 01:33 AM
Hi Kenn.

I don't quite agree with you. Sure, Wale Akin did not frame his proposition clearly - but if you read further down the thread, I have got him to clarify this. We have a Proponent (Wale Akin) and an Opponent (Busanga). I'm moderating. And as I have previously said, there's no rule against people voicing their comments on the debate so far as long as they do not voice off topic concerns and they do not introduce cross talk amongst themselves. You will notice that the expectation so far is very much on Wale Akin returning to make a response to Busanga's arguments - this would not be the case in an ordinary debate where anyone can join in at any time.

So be patient... we're still experimenting. And I don't do heavy-handed control when experimenting.

Vade Mecum
Jan 16, 2008, 01:40 AM
People,

I am at a loss as to what is going on here. If this is a debate, I do not think WaleAkin has framed the proposition properly. You need to frame the proposition properly to get opposition. What I see going on here is a mere discussion based on news. All Wale has done is to highlight the aspects of the news he wants to discuss and others are joining him – agreeing and disagreeing. I cannot even recognise Shoko’s tentative guidelines at work nor am I able to make out from what is going on who and who exactly are the de facto debating opponents. It’s like everyone is just piling on, saying their bit. I see no structure and I see no way this can qualify as any different from what we do in other threads on the site. It does not in any way show the uniqueness of The Crucible. I actually prefer Katampe’s earlier proposition. That was closer to what we should be aiming for.


CHEERS!



Hello Kenn1,

As you know, this project is still in it's elementary stage.What we are witnessing,

are natural teething problems. Hopefully, we will get there. We must remember,

that it is for very good reasons, that any scientific study of the behaviour of man

is usually called SOCIAL SCIENCE AND NOT PURE SCIENCE. It is not easy to

regulate human behaviour and conduct, my dear brother. I doff my hat for Shoko's,

for successfully steering the wheel of this experimental project so well, so far.

Just like the nation Nigeria, the problem is not the system, but the people. Well in

my humble opinion, so far so good.


Tony

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 02:25 AM
WaleAkin,

Excellent prologues / intros you got there.

Keep taking it nice and slow.

Oga Shoko, indefatigable and unprejudiced moderator,

I support Oga Anthony's post, the ebb and flow is just right. In a debate, it adds flavour to the soup when one is able to bring down the opponent making reference to something he had said at another time, well forgotten, and use it against him. I think nothing spoil.

Added later:
I noticed you addressed this in another post, thank you Sir.

Kenn
Jan 16, 2008, 02:52 AM
I was trained by both parents to prostrate flat when i greet them in the morning, returning from school in the afternoon and as neccesary. The traditional Yoruba tradition mandates all male children to do this as a form of respect and because the characters in this discourse are Yorubas, i shall limit my response to the Yoruba traditions.

I picked up my parents at Heathrow Airport this past summer and upon sighting them , prostrated flat in the full glare of everyone- I will NEVER allow my sojourn in the UK to becloud the good Nigerian trainings i was tutored, my Father responded by placing his RIGHT hand on my head and prayed vigorously in concentrated Ondo dialect!!

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo according to reports is known to be a strict Father and disciplinarian- even if we dont have the proofs, his military background says alot and i so sure he must have tutored Gbenga so well most especially since he is the 1st Male child. Parental respect is of high importance and they must be accorded no matter what!!

If Gbenga Obasanjo has this inbuilt and highly precious respect as highlighted above, he will not have the boldness to come forth and embarass his biological father- What is the job of the ELDERS- Nelson Mandela saw the need to gather elders of the Africa together so that the future of the African child can be guaranteed, he formed the ELDERSFORUM (http://http://www.theelders.org/). The elders are there to mediate, help us out when stuck, proffer lasting solutions to our problem- I refer to them as the BALM of GILEAD!

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is the Balogun of Owu- this chieftancy affords Gbenga to have a relationship with the Oba and his councils of Elders in preparation for him as the Balogun when his Father die, I am of the opinion that he should have sought audience with the Oba, report these indecent acts with sound proofs, allow the elders to mediate. Gbenga has done 3 things here by NOT reporting his father to the elders-
He has rubbished his family name
He has rubbished the Owu Dynasty
He has rubbished the Yoruba heritage of OMOLUABI

Speaking about my own biological Father- He is a strict no nonsense Man but he has this soft spot for his Immediate younger Brother, so when we have a lingering family issue where he is not ready to listen to us, we seek the face of this our loving Uncle and the case is closed! Gbenga as the Scion of the Obasanjo should have known someone in the family who has the heart of Obasanjo- why not report him to that person- All reasonable avenues MUST be expended.

I hereby submit to Busanga and co that Olugbenga Obasanjo lack the basic respects accorded to one's parents hence this undignified move.

Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Villagers,
Kindly follow my initial bullet points pls..................I am taking it one by each.

Thanks



WaleAkin,

Are you saying where tradition and morality conflict, tradition should take precedence? If so, on what moral basis should such a tradition be respected and passed over to generations unborn? If indeed the Gbenga story is true, why should a son silently and “respectfully” suffer the indignity of his father’s adulterous affair with his own wife? What remedies are available to him if the supposed children of the marriage aren’t exactly his? Should we be chastising the victim or be upbraiding the disgraceful elder who has no respect for himself, his status or his family? Don’t the Yoruba have a derogatory name for such an elder?

Kenn
Jan 16, 2008, 03:07 AM
Shoko,


>>>I don't quite agree with you. Sure, Wale Akin did not frame his proposition clearly - but if you read further down the thread, I have got him to clarify this.<<<


That is the problem! You don't make up the Proposition as you go along; you set it out at the beginning! That is the basis of debate – the foundation! You cannot build without a foundation! If, as you claim you've got him to clarify this, it is not reflected in the originating post – the proposing post!



>>>So be patient... we're still experimenting. And I don't do heavy-handed control when experimenting.<<<


Of course, we're still experimenting, but does that mean I can't point out an avoidable problem where I see it without being accused of impatience?:wink:






Tony,

I'm no perfectionist. Of course, I know there'll always be teething problems, but I'd rather we get rid of the elementary ones immediately we notice them. In this particular case, all it needs is for WaleAkin to return to his opening post and put out a proper proposition to reflect the ongoing debate. This is a place of record!

busanga
Jan 16, 2008, 03:16 AM
I dey wit WaleAkin here O (wey my odeku??!!)

Putting aside all previously held opinions regarding the actors in the drama under discussion...one true word remains true : Two wrongs do not make a right.

Two wrongs do make a right - do your maths! (-) x (-) = +

Seriously though, to say two wrong do not make a right is to assume Gbenga is wrong to include important disclosures of the reasons why his marriage broke down in the divorce proceedings submitted before the courts. I hope you are here not standing for the cause of crime in the form of perjury. Will you rather have had Gbenga Obasanjo lied by omission or commission? I know you know better than that.

Truth is that, Gbenga did not call a news conference of journalists to announce his wife philandering adventures with his father, it was in the court document dug up by diligent journalists also doing their job! In reference to some laughable submissions to the effect that Gbenga ought to keep marital disclosures confidential (and away from the eyes of the court to ensure justice is done..quite insidious) is just that- Laughable! For one, the marriage is broken, and it was the woman that went to the court first not Gbenga. This was Gbenga's way of revealing the truth. The Truth hopefully will set us free, not clinging to straws and twisting our culture in such way to insult the legacy of our forefathers who in no way will condone incest that is being defended by some.

The Elders of Yoruba land will be with Gbenga all the way in his attempt to exorcise the evil spirit tormenting his father, if indeed the allegations are true. I reject the monopolization of cultural norms or its hijacking by some to defend evil and hide the truth.

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 03:25 AM
(-) x (-) = +

Busanga,

two wrongs do not make a right in my own calculations:

(-) + (-) = (-) e.g. -5+-5=-10

busanga
Jan 16, 2008, 03:32 AM
Busanga,

two wrongs do not make a right in my own calculations:

(-) + (-) = (-) e.g. -5+-5=-10

... if only you will go further to say, that -10 is not the wrong answer, it was in fact the right one. Hence two wrongs do in fact make right. :D

P.S: Of course in this case there was only one wrong- INCEST!

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 05:27 AM
Supporting WaleAkin's introduction in establishing the characters called President Olusegun Obasanjo and Gbenga Obasanjo



We have a duty to protect our children, Gbenga is outrightly selfish in his quest to get his father nailed and buried, come to think about this: reports has it that he's being separated from Mojisola since 2005, why wait such a long time before firing the legal shots? Do we have some latent factors not declared?

http://nm.onlinenigeria.com/templates/default.aspx?a=6614&z=4


Excerpts:

What was your relationship with the late Mrs Stella Obasanjo?

She was my father's wife; she was the man's wife. That's it.

How would you react to the allegation that you bring businessmen, who are your partners, to buy up Nigerian companies at ridiculously low rates?

That's not true.

What about Virgin Nigeria, Ajaokuta Steel Company and others?

I have never met those people. I must say though, that I am proud to associate with the success of the Ajaokuta Steel Complex. They have started producing steel and prices of steel have come down in Nigeria. For Virgin Nigeria, I have never met Richard Branson. But I am proud of the Virgin Nigeria deal. The only person I have known was the Vice President of the South African Airlines, when he came to Nigeria to negotiate the South African Airlines deal that collapsed. Even then, I didn't try to influence the negotiations. He was my friend. I knew him and I could not shun him.

Do businessmen seek your intervention?

Of course, they do.

Do you just turn them down?

What is wrong with you, Sowore? I have been talking to you for the past two hours, don't I sound like I am intelligent enough to know what to do?
The time is not enough to assess your intelligence and I may not be intelligent enough to tell if you are intelligent...
That's why I think you guys have become really emotional with your stories. You just write what you like. It's the same with the Nigerian press. Because I don't give them money, they write all kinds of things about me; they hate me. But I won't give bribes. One day, I was at Abeokuta with the Ogun State Governor, Gbenga Daniel. These press guys came in and started asking hard questions. The moment they were served food they left their scrap papers and rushed the food. Of course, the next day, their reports were very shiny. That's the way it goes here. The press boys are a hungry bunch, but I have refused to bribe them. I don't have money to bribe them; I am just a struggling man. Look at the whole story about Stella Obasanjo being the only one standing with my father in jail. That was all press work. As a doctor, I was the first person allowed to see my father before she started visiting, but the Nigerian press have their favourites. And they can be mean. Recently, one magazine even wrote that since Stella has died, Baba too would soon follow. Haba!

Why does your father want a third term?

I am not aware of this third term thing you are talking about. My father is a man of integrity; he doesn't have any intention to remain in office beyond 2007. He is already building a retirement home and a library in Abeokuta. He is an old man. He may look young to the outside world, but he is an old man. I personally think he is older than 70 years. He just said he is about 70 years because nobody recorded his age when he was born. And his military service, perhaps, made him look fit as a person, but he is not a young person. I have been with him when he looked at obituaries in the newspaper and said: ‘That person who died was the son of my classmate." He is not as young as people think.

In I979, when it was fashionable to stay in power and he was just about 42 years of age, he didn't stay in power. Why would he stay in power now? What for? Let me tell you, it is the Vice President, Abubakar Atiku, and the Nigerian press that are campaigning for the third term. They are using it as blackmail. Atiku thinks the presidency is his birthright and as such, it should be delivered to him pronto! Otherwise, who among my father's close friends is campaigning openly for his third term in office?

Given your father's denial of Presidential ambition in 1993, this would be hard to believe. Again, Nigerians are already comparing your father's style to Abacha's style.

I hate it when people compare me and Baba with the Abacha family. What is the basis? That's so insulting. It is the worst insult anyone can heap on us. I even read one journalist comparing me with Mohammed Abacha! That is so unacceptable. I reject that. All I can tell you is that Baba has no third term agenda. Quote me anywhere, Baba has no plans to stay beyond 2007. He is old and tired and wants to go into retirement.

But top players in the private sector are urging him on. Can't he shut them up?

That's true. The only reason why they are asking Baba to stay is because they are afraid of Atiku. They know he will come and take over everything they have built with his unquenchable greed. Look, quite a lot of people are putting pressure on Baba to stay. Even the Americans are passing messages through me. Forget about all those scripted public statements. They want him to stay. The amount, efforts and resources required to change the constitution are just not worth it. Come 2007, Baba will leave the scene. He is not responding to these campaigns and counter-campaigns because he is busy doing so many things. You can see that planes are falling off the skies left and right. Baba has no time to get involved in these claims.

Are you not afraid of reprisals when Baba leaves office?

No. We are not afraid at all. God will continue to protect the righteous.

Who do you think your father will pick as successor?

I think all the candidates will have to come out and work hard to sell their programmes to Nigerians. Baba will support the best candidate.

Who will that be?

I don't know.
I asked because he allegedly worked against the best candidate in 1979...
Baba actually respected and preferred Chief Awolowo in 1979. He was his choice in terms of policy and clarity, but he thinks Awo was too tribalistic. That was the problem.

Was it not due to your father's hatred for Awo?

I know that Shagari won the election because that was what Nigerians wanted.

What caused the friction between your father and Atiku?

I don't really know. But I don't want anyone to think Baba will impose a candidate on Nigeria. No, he won't. Like I said earlier, if he had wanted to impose anyone on Nigeria, it would certainly have been Chief Awolowo in 1979. But he didn't do that. On Atiku, I think people get it wrong thinking that Baba is working against him. Atiku just thinks that the presidency is his birthright. Look at AP and the privatisation process. They just sold the entire country to themselves. Look at the Pentascope deal; they stole over one billion dollars from Nigeria without fixing a single telephone line. Go to the Corporate Affairs Commission and see those who own Pentascope. You will see the fraud perpetrated against Nigeria. But the press will never report these things.

Are you going to run for office someday?

Not at all. I am not interested in politics.

We reported that your little brother bought a house in New York and paid cash for it. Why didn't your dad do something about that? Isn't that corruption?
You were right on that report. You did your research very well. In fact, you bailed me out. Prior to that report, some newspapers had alleged that I was the one who bought the house. But your thorough research made them to apologise to me later. The house was bought for him by his mom. It is between Muyiwa and his mom.

Let's look at the corruption trial of Chief DSP Alamieyeseigha...

He should have known that there is no way he could get away. He was careless. But let me tell you that those people caught are the careless ones. There is so much corruption in Nigeria, and there are a lot of intelligent and smart corrupt people. And then of course, the stupid ones. Those are the ones who get caught. There are places in the world especially in the Commonwealth of the former Soviet Republic where you can get a passport with a white name and a black face and no one will ever ask questions from you!

That's why I thought the reporters who wrote that I have 22 bank accounts in the US are the most senseless people. One of them even went to my school at John Hopkins to check my academic background and found out that I had straight As and still thinks I will be opening accounts all over the US. Why would I be daft to do that?

Don't you have accounts in the US and is corruption not influenced by greed rather than intelligence?

I have two accounts in the US and one of them is in the red. In the second, I have maybe a few hundred dollars. I am not stupid, I should know better! As per my brother, I don't know why he did such thing, but I think his mom pushed him and I don't know who told you that he is intelligent! As per the state governors, I think a few of them know how to handle the press very well and some are intelligent too. Folks like Ibori, Gbenga Daniel, Bukola Saraki, Nnamani and a few.

What's your father's relationship with Andrew Young and Carl Masters?

I don't really know what they are doing in Nigeria. I just don't know what they do for Baba. I know they are around a lot. I know Andrew Young was doing some HIV/AIDS work and I share some of his interesting views, but nothing more than that, really.

Let's look at the celebrated Debt Relief. Is it wise for the government to give away $12 billion as payment for a debt Nigeria never owed?

I think my father belongs to a generation that doesn't believe in debts. He is of the old school and they hate debts of any type.
*Culled from The News Magazine.


An analytical deduction of Gbenga's person is a proud, self-centred, insubordinate and greedy child, filled with so much bitterness that blindens him and has left him with distorted thoughts.

Gbenga has reportedly been separated from Mojisola since 2005 suggesting there is a chance he has had knowledge of the purported illicit affair between his father and his wife whereas this interview was granted in January 2006 with Gbenga ascertaining with his own mouth his father's integrity.

Gbenga in my opinion is a child that feels it is his legal right as the first son of Mr three times Head of State and Commander in Chief of Nigeria (please do not forget this fact) to be most recognised (I give him that) and if possible his mother to be the First Lady (unfortunately he couldn't determine that). Whereas this did not happen, he constantly lived in bitterness which is often reflected in the way he spoke about Stella and her son, good looking Olumuyiwa Obasanjo, a New York based Lawyer.

After the demise of the Beautiful, Portable and softly spoken First Lady Mrs Stella Obasanjo (RIP) on 23 October, 2005, it became an avenue for Gbenga to try to warm his way into his father's heart and the press was a good tool. In the interview, he spoke I believe the truth about his father's great character and integrity and even went on further to say after his retirement, the family knows that God will take care of the righteous. This interview was granted before the National Elections took place.

Truth. Obasanjo maintained high integrity. All Gbenga said he would do he did and all he said he would not do, he did not do. What then went wrong? Gbenga's greed. General Obasanjo, well known to be tight fisted with the resources of Nigeria like his own personal resources (a credit to him) had dashed Gbenga's hope of becoming the Minister for Agriculture (since that is all he seems to be able to fit into by virtue of his training as a Vet – doctor of cockroaches and mosquitoes) because to borrow Gbenga's own words ‘Baba will support the best candidate'.

Gbenga's bitterness, greed, lack of consideration for the good of his immediate and larger family led him to tow the part of self-destruction and to him, the more that goes down with him the better.

Can I ask that we do not forget that Gbenga is not the only son of the Ex President who is married and if anyone think Mojisola to be beautiful, then you need to see Imilse wife of Olumuyiwa here:

http://bellanaija.blogspot.com/2006/08/wedding-fever.html.

If I may add and if you will admit, I think her to be more beautiful than Mojisola, why then has Baba's eyes not seen her?


As WaleAkin rightly submitted in one of his intros, General (rtd.) Olusegun Aremu Okikiola Matthew Obasanjo, GCFR is a well known Polygamist. While the topic in question is not about the moral justification of the polygamist which in my opinion seems to deem the analytical reasoning of the opposing party rather the ability of the acclaimed polygamist to think right and know the difference between good and evil.

Finally, I humbly leave you all to ponder on that which you already know that the fact that King Solomon had many wives and numerous concubines did not obliterate his wisdom and integrity to decipher between good and evil. This I believe is the case with President Olusegun Obasanjo.

Thank you.

Abraxas
Jan 16, 2008, 05:35 AM
Hi, Busanga, (mu men)!

How yoo dey? As for me, I dey kampe, well-well, for ya back, ojare: Make yoo no fear, {yoo hear?} WaleAkin jos want make all of us laugh small. 'Ihm no serious.

How wey 'e want tell us say unless we do bale for 'Eatro Hairport for our papa, mama, aunty, onkulu, egbon, and anybody wey take up to 23 hours senior us, we no respect our 9jeriyan cultshor?

Make I axe WaleAkin won (1) qwexshon first:

Hi, WaleAkin!

Suppose, say, yoo cash ya pastor, or overseer general, or bishop, dey nack ya daughter, (or sister, or girlfriend, or wife), shebi, yoo go keep quiet like sey not'ing happen? I t'ink, AkinWale, yoo go apply for Italian visa carry ya matter go Rome go tell Pope sey yoo get won (1) serious matter wey yoo come to see am for? No be so?

Wetin dey make me laugh pass na sey WaleAkin, yoo dey tell Gbenga sey, despite de fact sey 'ihm papa train am for primary skool, sekondry school, and unifersity, still yet, 'ihm no get respect for OBJ. Dis kind WaleAkin sef, yoo no see sey General Aremu Obasanjo no been train 'ihm shildrens at all-at all? If 'e for train Gbenga well {enehn?}, maybe, all of dis for no happen.

So dia4, even sef, paa-paa, OBJ no even train 'ihm pikins well. FULL STOP! Shey EVEN yoo sef see Gbenga, or even Senator Iyabo how dem dey do: all of dem na OBJ-trained. I say Balogun Okikiolakan Matiyi Aremu Obasanjo is a failed father. PERIOD!!

Make I axe yoo, WaleAkin, won (1) other qwexshon: Yoo done hear at all sey de Chiefs and Olowu of Owu, or de elders for Obasanjo family for Ibogun or Abeokuta dey vex for Gbenga, sake of sey 'ihm talk sey General Obasanjo fukkc 'ihm wife well-well, give am belle? No!

Make I remind yoo about wetin yoo jos talk:


"He who hath no sin, let him/her cast the first stone". How many of you here on NVS not to talk about the entire Nigeria as a whole will embarass their fathers if caught in this act?

I conclude this part with this Yoruba phrase "Olorun a fun wa lomo ti o ma da'so ASIRI bo gbogbo wa ohhhh"- May the infinite God gives us all good children who will keep our secret info secret!

Ol' boiy, make I tell yoo somet'ng wey yoo no sabi.

For many parts of Nigeria, {enhen?}, if dem cash man wey dey shine 'ihm daughter-in-law congo, or dey service 'ihm own daughter kponyon regularly like OBJ and Otunba Alexander Onabanjo been dey do, or woman wey dey regularly titrate, or collect condensed milik juice constantly from 'ihm husband friends, or papa senior maiguard, na for water dem go drown dem, or kill dem, and cut away dem blokos (or congo), t'roway dem dead body for evil forest, burn down dem house to de ground, take de ashes t'roway for inside Atlantic Ocean. Dat na de real ogbonge Nigerian cultshor. No be de kind yeye cultshor wey yoo, WaleAkin, dey yarn us for here sey dem go keep quiet. Na lie: dem must to punish pipul like OBJ for bringing bad luck and bad manners into dem village of origin without losing sleep: papa or no papa.

So dia4, my friend, WaleAkin, make yoo pray hard sey make God no give yoo shildrens wey go dey keep nonsense secret, sotay-sotay, yoo nack ya son wife, give am belle, give am government contract, (make 'ihm too come chop, as yoo dey loot de treasury), ya pikin go keep quiet; ya wife nack ya daughter boyfriend, yoo go keep quiet. Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III) nack ya wife till 'e no fit get belle again, sake of heavy congo pounding, yoo go keep de secret. I beg no make me laugh, {yoo hear?} In fact, make I tell give yoo, kro-kro: yoo no serious. PERIOD. Let's move forward, jo.
Muchas gracias.

Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)

elgaxton
Jan 16, 2008, 09:52 AM
The Don Himself!

You just said it all Abeg.

Busanga!

I dey ur side full time, so becos of elders make we

allow our wife make the so-called Elders(Balogun) de pollute our

marriage eh. God know sey even if na me be Gbenga na in front

of those elders I go use OBJ own gun take pump him chest. what

da heck? Old man wey no know himself. If he dey look for Congo

to shine why he know spy other girls if no be wickedness dey

worry am why e be sey na him Own Blood wife he go sleep with eh?.


As far as I'm concerned anybody wey no dey happy with wetin

Gbenga do dey try tell me sey he go fit sleep with Him daughter

In law or Son in law becos him be elder.

What OBJ has done is an abomination so let's treat it like an

Abomination, make culture go burn for hell fire abeg if it will

allow OBJ go scot free.

Busanga I dey your side full time jare

amsa
Jan 16, 2008, 10:02 AM
men, dat dude dat is talking about givin respect at all cost is not right oh. give respect to whom respect is due.if all elders are to be respected then how come the town drunk or madmna is not even with fact dat he is older than kids in the villa.its bcos he hasnt gone thru it and besides, it wasnbt aired in public, it was said in court. the court itself shud have made te proceedings silent.so no one shud blame him for such. if we continue to hide the sins of our fathers then we wud caught in their webs. where on earth do you think "the sins of our fathers" concept came out from if not in such situations.

amsa
Jan 16, 2008, 10:06 AM
even in the so called culture, sleeping with another man's wife is an abomination, talk less of sleeping with your son's wife. if you can go dat low, then you can actually be caught sleeping with your own daughter bcos i am sure he can remeber saying "we have gained a daughter" on their wedding day. that is so sickening.

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 11:38 AM
Welcome to the late party Mr. Wale, unfortunately you are one post behind. I do hope you will respond to my last rebuttal in the spirit of obedience to the moderator's directives. Until then, my hand is tied and I cannot respond to you lest I incur the wrath of the village

Mr Busanga,

Our Chief Speaker is currently putting to test what it takes to toil working overnight and another shift again in the morning to take care of the material and intellectual (educational)needs of one's children.

Is it possible I sight anyone among our ever attentive audience who would appreciate having gone through this tasks not complaining and then being repaid by one of those children with public ridicule and shame on a matter that has not even been proven?

Can I see your hands up please?:D

Since I am unable to sight anyone raising his/her hand, I will say no more at this time.

Thank you.

Sincere Brillow
Jan 16, 2008, 12:00 PM
Busanga Busanga,

Sang the song let them hear.Tell them,Tell them make dem hear wen!


Culture and respect, my foot.


Culture no talk say make we f**k our pikin wife even if the chikala like big man tin.


If Gbenga has waited for 3yrs before blowing the alarm he has simply tried ti owo ile bo(applied home solution) And since that has failed ,he come go market square tell people wetin dem cook wey make house burn.

Chikena!

Busanga,Busanga,Busanga oooooooo
Busanga them the koko.

Abraxas
Jan 16, 2008, 01:03 PM
Hi, folks!

Why wey OBJ never clear 'ihm name yet? Why wey all 'ihm paddy men and well-wishers like I Love Nigeria (ILN), Adedibu, Bode George, Sir (Dr.) Peter Odili, or even de elders and paramount king of Owu kingdom, where he is a traditional field marshal, NEVER still openly condemn Gbenga if wetin 'e been do na against Yoruba tradition? {Enhhen?}

I beg, leave matter, bo. T'ank God, sef, sey Abacha been send de man go Yola prison (near Atiku 'ihm mansion). If 'ihm for know, 'e for kukuma kill am for coup plotting, make Nigeria cool small.

Muchas gracias.

Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 01:11 PM
Why wey all 'ihm paddy men and well-wishers like I Love Nigeria (ILN), Adedibu, Bode George, Sir (Dr.) Peter Odili, or even de elders and paramount king of Owu kingdom, where he is a traditional field marshal, openly condemn Gbenga

Because elders dey talk say:

Agba kii soro bi ewe

Abi Oga Abraxas, you fit show us where dem praise am?

elgaxton
Jan 16, 2008, 01:28 PM
Liz Moses,

If to sey Gbenga Hire u as lawyer na dis kain thin u go dey judge

for am? Habba use ur mind na... OBJ na proper I no even get the

word to use for am... Even AGBERO for Lag no go gree sleep

with pikin wife so make una shun this culture thing abi since

when did it become cultural to sleep with a daughter -inlaw as an

elder and go scot-free.

Eleha
Jan 16, 2008, 01:41 PM
Me a jus dey anjoy dis flace:eek::D A no think say a wan go back to makaranta sef.

A jus dey claf for all our fiifu. A no hear dem turenchi o (e too much for me) but as I see dem stand up, a jus gi dem clapper:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Auspicious
Jan 16, 2008, 01:58 PM
I dey wit WaleAkin here O (wey my odeku??!!)

Putting aside all previously held opinions regarding the actors in the drama under discussion...one true word remains true : Two wrongs do not make a right.

Hello, Mr. Eja!

Err..so what is the 2nd Wrong here: Reporting one's father's Evil Ways to the authorities?

I hope not.

Auspicious.

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 02:20 PM
Liz Moses,

If to sey Gbenga Hire u as lawyer na dis kain thin u go dey judge

for am? Habba use ur mind na... OBJ na proper I no even get the

word to use for am... Even AGBERO for Lag no go gree sleep

with pikin wife so make una shun this culture thing abi since

when did it become cultural to sleep with a daughter -inlaw as an

elder and go scot-free.

Thank you Mr Elgaxton.

Primo, do I detect in your statement some form of appeal to pity?


Habba use ur mind na...

If so, it contradicts your Chief Speaker's position of sticking to facts.

Now to answer your question if Gbenga where to request my solicitory service (which I am not into anyway, I am a trained advocate) I will not judge him as you rightly said because a judge and a lawyer and two different people with two different career.

If I decided to train as a solicitor and then become his lawyer, then I will not base my arguments on his sanity/insanity, I will simply tell him I need proof (evidence) like:

This is the pant Moji forgot in my father's room;

Moji's sister also said their dad did it to her and infact it runs in their family because it was established the other time that Moji's female cousin's son was fathered by Moji's uncle;

Here is the voice recording of when Moji was telling me. Whereas he don't have that I would have advised him to broach the topic once again before leaving her so that he could record her voice;

Infact Gbenga's solicitors must be as confused as he. Even I who did not go to law school, will do a better job than they. I am not boasting.

To the final part, if Obasanjo na your uncle (don't worry not your father) wouldn't you rebuke Gbenga for making such a humongous allegation in public without first bringing the facts to a round table family discussion? Even lawyers try to find settlement out of court, mediation is now a very much respected thing in law.

I put it to you therefore Mr Elgaxton that as you have tried to fallaciously draw me to change my views, it reflects that even your opinion is fallacious as I believe you to be joining the band wagon.

Thank you.

elgaxton
Jan 16, 2008, 03:47 PM
Thank you Mr Elgaxton.

Primo, do I detect in your statement some form of appeal to pity?



If so, it contradicts your Chief Speaker's position of sticking to facts.

Now to answer your question if Gbenga where to request my solicitory service (which I am not into anyway, I am a trained advocate) I will not judge him as you rightly said because a judge and a lawyer and two different people with two different career.

If I decided to train as a solicitor and then become his lawyer, then I will not base my arguments on his sanity/insanity, I will simply tell him I need proof (evidence) like:

This is the pant Moji forgot in my father's room;

Moji's sister also said their dad did it to her and infact it runs in their family because it was established the other time that Moji's female cousin's son was fathered by Moji's uncle;

Here is the voice recording of when Moji was telling me. Whereas he don't have that I would have advised him to broach the topic once again before leaving her so that he could record her voice;

Infact Gbenga's solicitors must be as confused as he. Even I who did not go to law school, will do a better job than they. I am not boasting.

To the final part, if Obasanjo na your uncle (don't worry not your father) wouldn't you rebuke Gbenga for making such a humongous allegation in public without first bringing the facts to a round table family discussion? Even lawyers try to find settlement out of court, mediation is now a very much respected thing in law.

I put it to you therefore Mr Elgaxton that as you have tried to fallaciously draw me to change my views, it reflects that even your opinion is fallacious as I believe you to be joining the band wagon.

Thank you.


Ok o abi u sabi law shey? i no be lawyer o so make i ask u question as a mother wey u be

or wey u go be soon.

If Gbenga na ur pikin eh? Will u rebuke him for doing what he did? or You go tell am sey

my pikin, wetin u dey wait for to shoot ya papa? No talk like Lawyer o, talk like a mother

and a wife with a first reaction abeg:razz:.


My dear Liz forget matter jare, OBJ don mess up at least Gbenga was mute for more than

three years after noticing this wahala of which I believe sey na The Round table cultural

conference wey una dey look for na him dem dey do then.

By the way which good name does OBJ have to protect as a human being abeg:sad::cry:


Its so sad abeg... If we were talking about good leaders like Bill clinton then we can talk

about good name. Like Amsa rightly pointed out, The court should have made it a silent

hearing :razz: make we see. But dem no fit becos the guy tooooo Baaad and Rotten.


Just shun that Cultural matter jo:neutral:

Abraxas
Jan 16, 2008, 03:55 PM
Messy Divorce: Psychologist, Lawyers Ask OBJ To Speak Up.

Source: PM News (http://www.thenewsng.com/modules/zmagazine/article.php?articleid=21870); 16-January-2008.


As Gbenga Obasanjo's allegation that his father, former President Olusegun Obasanjo, slept with his wife, Moji, continues to generate reactions from a cross-section of Nigerians, lawyers, psychologists and pastors have called on the Ota-based chicken farmer to speak up on the issue. Many Nigerians who commented on the allegation were of the opinion that the last had not been heard on the issue. They want Obasanjo to open up on the allegation.

A lawyer, Mr. Niyi Akinmola, Vice President, Nigeria Bar Association (NBA), said former President Obasanjo would have to clear the air on the issue because if he fails to defend himself, then it would be taken that he committed the act.

"Gbenga needs to prove these allegations. But there is a danger here because if his father fails to defend himself in court, then it will be deemed to be true in law. So, there is a lot of burden on Obasanjo to defend himself in court. As it is now, the father must go to court to join issues with Gbenga. If he fails to join issues with him, then the allegation will be deemed to be true."

The lawyer added: "Let me emphasise that criminality has nothing to do with family affairs. A crime is a crime and an offence is an offence. Gbenga has alleged serious, immoral act against his father and he must prove that in court."

Another lawyer, Mr. Terry Badmus Adeniji, cautioned that the issue must be handled with care.

"The issue is quite interesting. From the legal point of view, I want to believe that somebody is out there to make a mischief. Because the affidavit was said to have been filed by a lawyer and as we know, lawyers don't file affidavits.

"Some of the claims are too weird. They are things you will find very hard to prove before any court. Gbenga said his wife, Moji, was sleeping with his father to get contracts. Is it at the state house or in a hotel room that they made love? These are facts that must be proved. Of course, the gentleman has accused his father of adultery, let him go and prove it."

A psychology lecturer at the Lagos State University, Jibowu campus, Mr. Afisi Oseni Taiwo, said Gbenga Obasanjo must have levelled the allegation to relieve himself of trauma.

According to him, for Gbenga to have made such an allegation, he must have been pushed to the wall.

"When it comes to the issue of marriage, it has to do with the mind. When one is not psychologically balanced, everything will be done to achieve balance. This explains why Gbenga Obasanjo decided to do what he did, if there is any iota of truth in his allegations.

"I am sure that he must have felt doing so will enhance relief from the trauma he is facing. If he keeps thinking of his father's political figure and did not want to tarnish his image, what about his own psychological upliftment," he asked.

Analysing what could have led Gbenga's wife, Moji, to sleep with her father, he explained that it was as a result of the assault she was subjected to by her father over a long period of time.

"The alleged sexual abuse on the lady while she was growing up by her father could be resultant to her behaviour now.

"If a young girl is sexually abused from her adolescent, there are two implications that may be derived from it. The first is she could develop outright hatred for men and the second is that it could increase her libido, which possibly could be what is happening now.

"From what is in the papers, her father assaulted her more than once. This explains why she is really sexually active. So, this will make her see having sexual intercourse with men as nothing. With her husband, she'll feel she's only fulfilling her duty as a wife."

On the moral implication of it, Mr. Afisi stated that for Gbenga to come out and make such huge allegations against someone like his father, there are more to this.

"If Gbenga's allegations turn out to be false, I wonder what his reasons will be for making such allegations against his father, except the papers did not quote him properly. There might be something he isn't saying."

Another pyschologist at the Adeniran Ogunsanya College of Education, Otto-Ijanikin, Dr. Bayo Komolafe, said the junior Obasanjo must have done what he did in order to relieve himself of trauma.

A cleric and founder of INRI Evangelical Church, Primate Ayodele Elijah, said of the allegations: "The Bible preaches against such act. Woe unto a man that tries such. That is what the Bible says. And such a person may never do any good thing in his life again.That is one of the numerous spiritual implications.

"Besides, our culture frowns against this seriously. So, whoever does that has brought a big curse upon himself."

Kenn
Jan 16, 2008, 04:08 PM
Fellow debaters and wise denizens of The Crucible,


>>>Gbenga Obasanjo is not and can never be Wale Akin but we share a common heritage and thats the rich Yoruba tradition where it behoves any right thinking Omo Oduduwa to behave according to laid down principles and above all know that certain perimeters are no go areas NO MATTER WHAT!. One of these is TOTAL and UNDILUTED respect to our parents. Gbenga is not an OBUKO(He-Goat) meant to sleep with his father's wives or even his own Mother, even if the father has committed this unforgivable error, it's divine on his side to forgive!<<<


WaleAkin will have to explain what he's saying here – Is he saying total and undiluted respect for our parents should becloud our view of the issue where a parent has become the demon through a self-engineered process or by other forces outside him? Is WaleAkin saying if father is a paedophile, he would leave a little child in his hands without supervision because of the "TOTAL and UNDILUTED respect"? If father is a rapist, we should just let him get on with it or leave God to judge him because we totally respect him? What has forgiveness got to do with the treatment of a disease or the social termination of a taboo? If it is true, Gbenga alone would not be the victim, but the whole of Nigeria. He and his father have brought a curse upon our nation! WaleAkin should worry that in the moral canvass he's painted, only the children have moral responsibility towards their parents, who apparently are gods incapable of breaching moral or ethical codes or natural law. And, of course, they're to be worshipped by the hapless children whose wives they've slept with. I slightly remember reading these in fairy tales, not real life. There is a line that parent or child should never cross; if the parent crosses that line, he, and only he, bears the responsibility for the fate of his child who's his victim! There is nothing to be forgiven only amends to be made. Obasanjo should step forward and take responsibility for his actions.





>>>Yes, he is regarded as the Dawodu and must do things right at all times, i am totally against blowing the public trumpet, we have a million ways of settling this particular problem, public knowledge is totally UNYORUBA and by this i stand firmly..........NO SHAKING at all. Talking about his younger brothers, i bet and also believe that we will still have siblings who will die for their father even with this trumped up allegations. Gbenga Obasanjo has only succeeded in rubbishing his FAMILY name and as it had happened before, history will never be kind to him- Watch this space in 20-30 years time!!<<<


Why? Would history be kind on Obasanjo, twice Nigeria's leader as military head of state and democratic president, after being corralled with the charge of sleeping with his son's wife at the twilight of his life? Is this the kind of thing Obasanjo worked for as his epitaph? One thing is for sure, if these allegations are true, Obsanjo's personal and public image would be no better than that of an obuko – randy, smelly and always liable to be cut and raked over the coal by history.




>>>The Cheriegate issue of 2003 when she as the wife of the Prime Minister of Britain was embroiled in a housing scam with a con-man now serving time in Australia, does that now make her a bad Mother to Euan and his siblings- I pray you to seperate politics from family affairs. Many of u who criticise political office holders so much can not stand a day job as a local Counsellor for their LGAs<<<


This is comparing apple and coconut!




>>>............Did you type this Busanga? Are u insinuating that our parents MUST earn our respect. My Father did not earn my respect, i gave and will continue to give it out to him and on this premise i stand and because i share the same Yoruba heritage- unless Gbenga is from another continent, then it behoves him as the Scion of Chief Aremu Okikiolakan Olusegun Obasanjo to give him that TOTAL respect even in the face of adversity!<<<


I love that euphemism – "adversity"! Now, may we ask what type of "adversity" we are talking about here? Of course, everybody has to earn the respect accorded them. Respect is not some uniform you can put on anyone, it has to be earned. A father or mother earns the respect of their sons and daughter when they have proved to be good parents. The beautiful thing is that children have very low standards. What they ask of their parents is simple love. Why love a father or mother who does not love you? Why respect a father or mother who does not respect your humanity? I don't think Obasanjo has complained yet that Gbenga does not respect him as a son, but it's another matter if Gbenga's marriage has become victim to Baba's peccadilloes!





>>>Now lets get this debate on its right course- I condemn in strongest terms the nauseating behaviour of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo if truly he slept with his DIL- what a man, he should be removed as the Balogun of Owu, his national honour of GCFR should also be revoked as he is a collosal shame to Nigeria and the rich Yoruba culture.<<<


He's the one just joining the debate on the right course. Those of us who oppose him have been on the right course from the beginning and that is why we oppose his view of self-hating respect to others, including parents. I love my mother and father deeply in a way I can't satisfactory explain in words. But they earned it – they didn't command it – they earned it, just as I hope I've earned mine with them. Love does not encourage false respect. A child prostrating and yessir-ing even when he knows his father's love is not there is worse than a mercenary.



CHEERS!

elgaxton
Jan 16, 2008, 04:21 PM
Don Abraxas,

Thanks for the last line of ur last post.

Thank You Kenn1 too.

People think that love is all about being sentimental but its not at

all. Love truly thrives on discipline especially that of refraining from extra marital sex.

For OBJ to open his two korokoro eyes and sleep with his daughter in law, na EVIL mixed with

hatred dey worry am and I believe sey like his own female children(OBJ' s daughters) fine

small the man for dey Boongay them one after the other, yes na true but the

problem be sey Snake must born wetin resemble snake so as the

man no gree fine him children kuku go take after him own

beauty....


Well we are waiting for his response abi na reaction and the guy better not lie o.

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 05:08 PM
Elgaxton,

Though I am not mandated according to the rules of debating to find answers to your questions, I may choose to just go on with my own points, yet I will answer you again this time.


If Gbenga na ur pikin eh? Will u rebuke him for doing what he did? or You go tell am sey

my pikin, wetin u dey wait for to shoot ya papa? No talk like Lawyer o, talk like a mother

and a wife with a first reaction abeg.

First like a true mother, I say 'mo ta'ka e danu'

This however is what I expect Gbenga's mother to have been doing since the news got round: grab her two breasts, scream out very loud and when they rush to ask her what happened, she'd say:

E wa wo omo a ko ni si'ta bi omo ojo mejo yi o. Omo alaigboran, omo ako'gba yi. Eleya, omo ti won fi nse nka osu danu. Alaini itelorun, ole oloju kokoro. Ba ti nge lowo, ni bo'ruka.
Sebi o wo konko mo wipe ohun lo wun e, o fe fe, sebi o mo wipe ta'ja t'eran ti ba lasepo ri abi o wadi ni? O kuku mo tele wipe baba re baba gbogbo aye ni. Ohun to fe gba lowo e loje o mu omo yen lo ba. E nse o dun mo yin nigba ti e fe gba gbogbo ohun ti e gba, oju e wa ja nisiyi o wa npolongo enu.

O ba mo o ba ma ti se o, tori eyi t'o se yi lo nje ohun. Adabi ko'mo inu e mase iru fun e ni o.

A bi ibo la wa fe ru gba bayi, o ma ma ti fe ba aye ara e lai nse temi je o. Oloun ma sanu o!

This is the song I expect Gbenga's mother would be singing now. :D

Kenn
Jan 16, 2008, 05:51 PM
Liz,

I crave understanding here – are you saying you'd substitute drama for reason? You'd coldly victimize the victim, rather than allow him ‘disgrace' a disgraceful' and abominable father? Are you saying you'll blackmail your child to silence to protect a man that needs national chastisement and possibly psychiatric help?

busanga
Jan 16, 2008, 06:35 PM
My able supporters, one nation!

Wale say na tradition, make man pansh im own pikin wife and then clean mouth and claim absolute respect..Una gree or una no gree?

Me i disagree. Wetin be this culture and tradition he speak of sef? The culture got annihilated the moment baba remove the string for im shokoto, come adjust im big belle, come spread im pikin wife im leg, come commot im shlong, come insert am into the gate of hell..do I hear Zuma? I mean Zuma rock not David Zuma the man wey dey enzoy HIV Patient im pit ojare! Commot ya mind from the gutter! Culture my feet.

Soul Sista
Jan 16, 2008, 06:41 PM
Elgaxton,
* * *



First like a true mother, I say 'mo ta'ka e danu'

This however is what I expect Gbenga's mother to have been doing since the news got round: grab her two breasts, scream out very loud and when they rush to ask her what happened, she'd say:

E wa wo omo a ko ni si'ta bi omo ojo mejo yi o. Omo alaigboran, omo ako'gba yi. Eleya, omo ti won fi nse nka osu danu. Alaini itelorun, ole oloju kokoro. Ba ti nge lowo, ni bo'ruka.
Sebi o wo konko mo wipe ohun lo wun e, o fe fe, sebi o mo wipe ta'ja t'eran ti ba lasepo ri abi o wadi ni? O kuku mo tele wipe baba re baba gbogbo aye ni. Ohun to fe gba lowo e loje o mu omo yen lo ba. E nse o dun mo yin nigba ti e fe gba gbogbo ohun ti e gba, oju e wa ja nisiyi o wa npolongo enu.

O ba mo o ba ma ti se o, tori eyi t'o se yi lo nje ohun. Adabi ko'mo inu e mase iru fun e ni o.

A bi ibo la wa fe ru gba bayi, o ma ma ti fe ba aye ara e lai nse temi je o. Oloun ma sanu o!

This is the song I expect Gbenga's mother would be singing now. :D

Lizmoses:

Hello.

Please, please can you please translate so that everyone reading understands what you have written in Yoruba? Thanks a million.

Soul Sista a/k/a Soul Sizzling

VOR
Jan 16, 2008, 06:49 PM
Elgaxton,

Though I am not mandated according to the rules of debating to find answers to your questions, I may choose to just go on with my own points, yet I will answer you again this time.



First like a true mother, I say 'mo ta'ka e danu'

This however is what I expect Gbenga's mother to have been doing since the news got round: grab her two breasts, scream out very loud and when they rush to ask her what happened, she'd say:

E wa wo omo a ko ni si'ta bi omo ojo mejo yi o. Omo alaigboran, omo ako'gba yi. Eleya, omo ti won fi nse nka osu danu. Alaini itelorun, ole oloju kokoro. Ba ti nge lowo, ni bo'ruka.
Sebi o wo konko mo wipe ohun lo wun e, o fe fe, sebi o mo wipe ta'ja t'eran ti ba lasepo ri abi o wadi ni? O kuku mo tele wipe baba re baba gbogbo aye ni. Ohun to fe gba lowo e loje o mu omo yen lo ba. E nse o dun mo yin nigba ti e fe gba gbogbo ohun ti e gba, oju e wa ja nisiyi o wa npolongo enu.

O ba mo o ba ma ti se o, tori eyi t'o se yi lo nje ohun. Adabi ko'mo inu e mase iru fun e ni o.

A bi ibo la wa fe ru gba bayi, o ma ma ti fe ba aye ara e lai nse temi je o. Oloun ma sanu o!

This is the song I expect Gbenga's mother would be singing now. :D


Liz

Sorry o, if Gbenga's mother is saying this, it puts to question the sort of mother she is! I will expect she will stand by her son at this time, yes chastise him in private but not in public! If Gbenga's allegation is true (which no one but the parties involve know the answer) do you know what the guy will be going through? Then his mother will now come and be calling him an Eleya? abegi!! How are you so sure the woman herself doesn't know the koko of the matter pa pa?

.bebi
Jan 16, 2008, 07:51 PM
Lizmoses,I agree with u that Gbenga sounded selfish in that infamous interview.(Also pls we r not all yoruba,so dey translate abeg)

We r all supposing that these allegations r true,abi?
We r also supposing that Gbenga made this gist public by going to the papers,not so?

Moji filed for a divorce,demanding for millions of naira as settlement or whatever.Dont u think that is what drove Gbenga to reveal this abomination?We cant even rule out that what annoyed Gbenga was Obj supporting Moji.

Egun Mogaji
Jan 16, 2008, 09:05 PM
Peoples !!!

This is getting a bit more than funny.

How can a woman, any woman, condone this sort of behaviour?
What is not right is wrong, there are no two ways about it.
It is staggering that we have people contending the pros and cons of what is essentially a despicable act, in any culture. What would you do if this was you?
pretend it never happened? and then you wonder why the people are so corrupt!!!!

I am sure there are a few people here who don't see anything wrong in this bulls***.
As long as no one knows....but this one is now open house, so everybody scatter!!!!

Why oh Why can we not call a spade a spade?

Whatever the hidden truths and falsehoods, this is a disturbing case. There are hundreds of children in Nigeria who are being assaulted, molested, and we think the best thing is to pretend it's not happening? When are we going to start moving forward? Nigeria would forever be in the dark ages at this rate.

I am embarrased to think anyone....let alone a parent, can condone this **** !!!
So a woman who gets raped deserved it did she? Shhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

This is something that would hasten the destruction of OBJ. Whether he defends himself or not remains to be seen. But which ever way, he's toast.

I have always been of the opinion that half educated people are more dangerous than those who are not. And in Nigeria, a large part of those in authority are a bunch of dim-witted lowlifes. There can be no half right position here. Whether the motivation was/is money, revenge, anything.....this is an outrage.

Not being patronizing to women, they need support at the best of times. What is a girl to do in a country where there is no refuge?
Why could the old man not put his head on? And to think he was president for 8 years.
It stinks. It stinks real bad.

It a case of old wine , new bottle.
We lack any probity on any level. Simple. No one is accountable for nothing.
In a few weeks time, this would all be gone, and another story would take it's place.

Bill Clinton never truly got over the Lewinsky allegations. If it was Naija, it would never have got the light of day.

All these postulations about tradition, is plain stupid. Tradition my ****! What utter bladderdash. The educated people are outnumbered by the uneducated people 10 to 1.
And this is why nothing works in Nigeria. It is a survival of the fittest, and smartest.
And that means you bend all rules possible, break them if you can.

This is why so many Nigerians abroad behave arrogantly and aggresively. because they try and replicate the nonsense they do at home. No manners. No decor. No etiquette.
Those in power perpetuate themselves. Public Service means something entirely different.


In the cold light of day, no crime has been committed.
It's just a moral question in a country where no money is worshipped over substance.

What is not good is bad....This is not good.
No amount of gloss can cover it. Even if it remains unproven. Mud sticks.


We need to get with the program peoples.

:mad::mad::mad:

lizmoses
Jan 17, 2008, 06:45 AM
are you saying you'd substitute drama for reason? You'd coldly victimize the victim, rather than allow him ‘disgrace' a disgraceful' and abominable father? Are you saying you'll blackmail your child to silence to protect a man that needs national chastisement and possibly psychiatric help?


However, at The Crucible, you do not necessarily have to support the position you believe in. Here it is fun. You may support or argue a position today only to argue against it tomorrow! You don't expect someone to come and claim tomorrow that a position you took in a debate at The Crucible is indeed your belief.


Kenn1
I will like to answer the first quote (your question to me) with the second quote (your own words on another thread)

S.S and .bebi
Some things are better left uninterpreted for the prupose of making this debate solely Nigerian.

VOR
It is in order to avoid what the child and his generations to come (expect if Divine Intevention of course) will end up going through that the mother ought to start crying out now and seeking help and for his father's forgiveness.
No matter what (a o riru eleyi ri, a fi nderu ba oloro ni o) if the baba remove his trousers to curse him, ehn! a ti we iru e danu?

As my Chief Speaker has rightly said in his last post, I will also be rounding off my submission.

Since I have been able to draw the attention of all you true mothers to our line of argument, can anyone please tell me if she will like to be seen as this sort of a mother:

http://www.modernghana.com/low/content.asp?id=VFhwamVnPT0=&which=4


They revealed, all these while, Moji had complained bitterly that she was not very happy about her husband's closeness to the house girl got for them by the mother in-law, Chief Mrs Oluremi Obasanjo from her church, the Redeemed Christian Church of God (Salvation Parish) GRA, Ikeja, Lagos. We equally gathered that, her pastor recommended the said house girl for the mother in-law.

It's interesting to know that apart from Gbenga's marriage that has broken down, other children of Mrs. Oluremi Obasanjo marriages have also hit the rocks. For instance, her first daughter, Dr. Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello who is the Commissioner for Health, Ogun State marriage to her American based husband has crashed and the couple now live apart.

Also, Busola, another of her daughter married to an Army officer has moved out of her matrimonial home.

I quote especially the bolded part. Olusegun Obasanjo had been separated from her after 13 years of marriage and she had the children to herself. Where did she err in the upbringing of her children? You all say she should not cry, then she should dance around and keep laughing because she has won gold medal.

Whereas our team have in strong terms condemned the act the Ex President was accused of if indeed he did, we nevertheless ask you to weigh the consequencies of his own action against the consequencies of Gbenga's action.

Olusegun Obasanjo's act (if true) has already been done in secret. Gbenga's life is changed but is it possible that saying it out means the memory is taking away? NO

Gbenga knew all this while but it was like an avenue to constantly blackmail his father collecting money due to you and I (Nigerian citizens). Are you sure he did not instigate it knowing his father's weakness? Afterall there are some popularly known part of the society that allow and watch their wives sleep with men pretending they are her brother all because of this root of all evil called MONEY.

Now please think on these:

What effect would this have on the lives of those two lovely innocent children (product of the marriage)?

Does this not also have implication in that the same blood might run through Gbenga?

Infact what does this add to the already negative image of Nigeria internationally?

To round it up, my Chief Speaker had cleverly framed the topic: Disgracing Your Father In Public: A Critical Look At Gbenga Obasanjo's Outburst. I wish to say therefore that based on Gbenga Obasanjo 'ohun t'oju nwa l'oju nri' meaning 'what the eyes finds attractive, it gets'

I hope we have been able to convince and not to confuse you all.

Thank you.

Myne Whitman
Jan 17, 2008, 07:44 AM
Liz,

Did you mean solely Nigerian or solely Yoruba? I hope you do not think that all Nigerians understand that language. Even if you cannot trans-literate, you can give us the bare bones of your meaning or your argument is null and void...

S.S and .bebi
Some things are better left uninterpreted for the prupose of making this debate solely Nigerian.

elgaxton
Jan 17, 2008, 07:51 AM
Elgaxton,

Though I am not mandated according to the rules of debating to find answers to your questions, I may choose to just go on with my own points, yet I will answer you again this time.



First like a true mother, I say 'mo ta'ka e danu'

This however is what I expect Gbenga's mother to have been doing since the news got round: grab her two breasts, scream out very loud and when they rush to ask her what happened, she'd say:

E wa wo omo a ko ni si'ta bi omo ojo mejo yi o. Omo alaigboran, omo ako'gba yi. Eleya, omo ti won fi nse nka osu danu. Alaini itelorun, ole oloju kokoro. Ba ti nge lowo, ni bo'ruka.
Sebi o wo konko mo wipe ohun lo wun e, o fe fe, sebi o mo wipe ta'ja t'eran ti ba lasepo ri abi o wadi ni? O kuku mo tele wipe baba re baba gbogbo aye ni. Ohun to fe gba lowo e loje o mu omo yen lo ba. E nse o dun mo yin nigba ti e fe gba gbogbo ohun ti e gba, oju e wa ja nisiyi o wa npolongo enu.

O ba mo o ba ma ti se o, tori eyi t'o se yi lo nje ohun. Adabi ko'mo inu e mase iru fun e ni o.

A bi ibo la wa fe ru gba bayi, o ma ma ti fe ba aye ara e lai nse temi je o. Oloun ma sanu o!

This is the song I expect Gbenga's mother would be singing now. :D


Thank you, please can u interpret the song


I dont understand Yoruba, by the way do u speak yoruba in court make I dey know.

U know sey dem no dey know nigerians finis.

hopenjoy
Jan 17, 2008, 07:54 AM
Liz,

Did you mean solely Nigerian or solely Yoruba? I hope you do not think that all Nigerians understand that language. Even if you cannot trans-literate, you can give us the bare bones of your meaning or your argument is null and void...

my thots exactly. i am Yoruba and can read that but i sure would have been pissed off if someone types something that long in a language i don't understand and does not even care to translate it.

dem
Jan 17, 2008, 08:19 AM
Messy Divorce: Psychologist, Lawyers Ask OBJ To Speak Up.



Ọrọ odun lẹnu iya ole e. (Trans-literation: Mata nor dey sweet coming from the mouf of the thief's mom) What has he got to say? What can he possibly say?

Beam
Jan 17, 2008, 08:31 AM
Liz,

Did you mean solely Nigerian or solely Yoruba?
I hope you do not think that all Nigerians understand that language. Even if you cannot trans-literate, you can give us the bare bones of your meaning or your argument is null and void...

Mulan,Bebi,

i will take it to the black board and get it translated, i am yoruba but i cannot read it too:cool: SS can read it but was just asking for the translation for others like us that can not read the lingo:D

sorry not trying to derail thread let the debate continue:cool:

WaleAkin
Jan 17, 2008, 01:06 PM
Hello Katampe,

Full disclosure is a societal responsibility; it is the preserve of men of honour and integrity. Gbenga has shown that he is a man of integrity and he looks beyond personal gains. We all know how powerful his father is, but for him to confront his father and disclose to the general public what ails him and his family, I believe it is something to be applauded.
Remember Olikoye Ransome Kuti ? He performed his own similar duty when it was discovered that his brother, Fela had HIV AIDS – he went to the public.

I totally dislike a deliberate attempt to DISinform and MISinform people and this is what our honourable Katampe has done in his current debate.

Prof Olikoye Ransome-Kuti gave a press interview when his brother, Fela Anikulapo-Kuti died and it was at that interview that the cause of death was made public- The former never released the info while his Brother was still alive!

Kindly correct this pls!

Cheers,
Wale Akin

Ishola Taiwo
Jan 17, 2008, 02:41 PM
Hello, Mr. Eja!

Err..so what is the 2nd Wrong here: Reporting one's father's Evil Ways to the authorities?

I hope not.

Auspicious.

Emmm, Senator Auspicious.....Area, how de goings now? You say wetin be de 2nd wrong? Kai muna...you still dey axe me? No be you talk dis one for 2.41pm yesterday on dis thread (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/board/main-square/44004-mojisola-obasanjo-strikes-back.html)? :


This is ludicrous!

Dysfunctional family is what that family truly is.

Gosh..how revolting.

See, Nigerians are a tough-headed bunch.

No, you can't cheat them and walk scott-free.

You either die unexpectedly in the midst of prostitutes,

Or limp your way out of power and live like a fugitive forever.

Or have your Son wash your dirty linen in public like a mad man.



Abi to "wash dirty linen in public" don turn to good ting since after you talk like dat?...:neutral:

dolapsy
Jan 17, 2008, 03:54 PM
Wale,
You just react like the typical nigerian old school! I disagree with you on the point that Obasanjo has no case to answer. This is based on the trend in the past few years. Obasanjo has been known to be mouthy and has shown no finesse even in handling matters of state and responding to insults hurled at him! Sometimes you wonder if he actually realised the kind of seat he occupied as president of Nigeria. He is always ready to slug it out with journalists on the slightest provocation! In fact , no nigerian leader has the press dealt with as much as Obasanjo. he has suffered so much in the hand of the press, why?
Adiye funfun, ko mo ara re lagba! He simply does not know when to respond and when to keep quiet. what am i saying? Gbenga is a true replica of his father. and who is to blame for such hereditary traits? The sperm donor ofcourse!

Ishola Taiwo
Jan 17, 2008, 04:38 PM
Two wrongs do make a right - do your maths! (-) x (-) = +



You are assuming of course that + always means right. However, you may want to ask the sick person who has just had some more symptoms added on to his/her ailment if he/she thinks the action represented by + is a righteous one....:D.


Seriously though, to say two wrong do not make a right is to assume Gbenga is wrong to include important disclosures of the reasons why his marriage broke down in the divorce proceedings submitted before the courts. I hope you are here not standing for the cause of crime in the form of perjury. Will you rather have had Gbenga Obasanjo lied by omission or commission? I know you know better than that.

Are you certain that these were the reasons his marriage broke down? Are you 100% sure? I mean, when did he decide that the marriage was over? Was it when she told him her father had slept with her or, was it when he 'discovered' that his own father was sleeping with her?

And by the way, since you are bringing in the fine points of our western derived system of law, I have to ask: is is true that hearsay is not an admissible form of evidence? If the answer is "yes", then, have you seen any information about evidence that is not based on hearsay? Has the man provided things like forensics, signed witness statements, signed confessions..etc. to back up what he ascribes to his estranged wife and her father?

Has he included in his evidence a confession by his own father, a confession by his wife or, recordings made by her (or any other witness) in which the acts being spoken of are shown or described by participants/eye witnesses)?

Finally, since he had known of these alleged misdeeds for a while now, what stopped him from obtaining DNA evidence to back the assertion that the children might not be his biological offspring? In the absence of participant confessions and witness statements, shouldn't the centerpoint of his deposition be evidence of this calibre?

You see, we cannot be ambiguous when it comes to this desire we have for a society that is governed by the rule of law. It may be difficult, but we have to accept all postulates of that proposed dispensation. And, one of those postulates tells us that a man (or a woman) cannot be condemned by hearsay alone.


Truth is that, Gbenga did not call a news conference of journalists to announce his wife philandering adventures with his father, it was in the court document dug up by diligent journalists also doing their job! In reference to some laughable submissions to the effect that Gbenga ought to keep marital disclosures confidential (and away from the eyes of the court to ensure justice is done..quite insidious) is just that- Laughable! For one, the marriage is broken, and it was the woman that went to the court first not Gbenga. This was Gbenga's way of revealing the truth. The Truth hopefully will set us free, not clinging to straws and twisting our culture in such way to insult the legacy of our forefathers who in no way will condone incest that is being defended by some.

I have not seen anybody here condoning incest. Please, dial down the hyperbole.

You used the word "laughable", well, what is laughable is the idea that the man who brought this thing into the limelight did so out of a desire to serve Truth... This whole affair is one that reeks of self-interest. The facts revealed by the man in his deposition are exactly those facts that he calculates will put him at an advantage.

And now that certain matters are in the public domain, will you be speaking at some future date on behalf of those non-involved parties whose lives will be irrevocably altered by these revelations (whether they are true or false)?


The Elders of Yoruba land will be with Gbenga all the way in his attempt to exorcise the evil spirit tormenting his father, if indeed the allegations are true. I reject the monopolization of cultural norms or its hijacking by some to defend evil and hide the truth.


"...if indeed the allegations are true" you say. Busanga, this is what people need to wait and see before rushing to pass judgement.

I would also like to know if you have decided how the matter should be dealt with if the allegations are false.

What you describe as "cultural norms" are not the only tools that are used to conceal evil in the world we live in today. In fact, there is nothing from education, law, commerce, religion and culture that is immune from being corrupted and twisted until it takes on a form that serves evil ends. However, when speaking in cases like this about Culture (or about any other of the building blocks of Civilization), it is to be hoped that an audience that consists of people who claim to be in the service of what is right will be able to discern the difference between the specific ideals being called upon and the shape-shifting mutations that seek to take their place.

To follow what is wrong by doing wrong yourself will not cure the communal spirit of its ailments. Somebody has to draw the line somewhere...people have to start saying "this has gone on for so long but I will no longer be a member of the parties that perpetuate this dispensation."

We know what is right but, doing it will not always give us satisfaction. However, until one generation embraces the consensus to return (whatever the cost may be) to those eternal ideals that were once so simply articulated long ago (ideals that were abandoned in the interest of temporal efficacy), then we will only sink further into the pits.

In short, honour your parents (even if they commit dishonourable acts). Because, one day, they will be gone. Dead and no longer capable of decisive action. But you who had the discipline (and the sense of self-sacrifice) to honour them will be a different type of human: an improved version and, those children (and their children) who will be brought up in the moral universe your service calls into being will themselves be the types of humans that our society requires.

WaleAkin
Jan 17, 2008, 06:59 PM
You are assuming of course that + always means right. However, you may want to ask the sick person who has just had some more symptoms added on to his/her ailment if he/she thinks the action represented by + is a righteous one....:D.



Are you certain that these were the reasons his marriage broke down? Are you 100% sure? I mean, when did he decide that the marriage was over? Was it when she told him her father had slept with her or, was it when he 'discovered' that his own father was sleeping with her?

And by the way, since you are bringing in the fine points of our western derived system of law, I have to ask: is is true that hearsay is not an admissible form of evidence? If the answer is "yes", then, have you seen any information about evidence that is not based on hearsay? Has the man provided things like forensics, signed witness statements, signed confessions..etc. to back up what he ascribes to his estranged wife and her father?

Has he included in his evidence a confession by his own father, a confession by his wife or, recordings made by her (or any other witness) in which the acts being spoken of are shown or described by participants/eye witnesses)?

Finally, since he had known of these alleged misdeeds for a while now, what stopped him from obtaining DNA evidence to back the assertion that the children might not be his biological offspring? In the absence of participant confessions and witness statements, shouldn't the centerpoint of his deposition be evidence of this calibre?

You see, we cannot be ambiguous when it comes to this desire we have for a society that is governed by the rule of law. It may be difficult, but we have to accept all postulates of that proposed dispensation. And, one of those postulates tells us that a man (or a woman) cannot be condemned by hearsay alone.



I have not seen anybody here condoning incest. Please, dial down the hyperbole.

You used the word "laughable", well, what is laughable is the idea that the man who brought this thing into the limelight did so out of a desire to serve Truth... This whole affair is one that reeks of self-interest. The facts revealed by the man in his deposition are exactly those facts that he calculates will put him at an advantage.

And now that certain matters are in the public domain, will you be speaking at some future date on behalf of those non-involved parties whose lives will be irrevocably altered by these revelations (whether they are true or false)?



"...if indeed the allegations are true" you say. Busanga, this is what people need to wait and see before rushing to pass judgement.

I would also like to know if you have decided how the matter should be dealt with if the allegations are false.

What you describe as "cultural norms" are not the only tools that are used to conceal evil in the world we live in today. In fact, there is nothing from education, law, commerce, religion and culture that is immune from being corrupted and twisted until it takes on a form that serves evil ends. However, when speaking in cases like this about Culture (or about any other of the building blocks of Civilization), it is to be hoped that an audience that consists of people who claim to be in the service of what is right will be able to discern the difference between the specific ideals being called upon and the shape-shifting mutations that seek to take their place.

To follow what is wrong by doing wrong yourself will not cure the communal spirit of its ailments. Somebody has to draw the line somewhere...people have to start saying "this has gone on for so long but I will no longer be a member of the parties that perpetuate this dispensation."

We know what is right but, doing it will not always give us satisfaction. However, until one generation embraces the consensus to return (whatever the cost may be) to those eternal ideals that were once so simply articulated long ago (ideals that were abandoned in the interest of temporal efficacy), then we will only sink further into the pits.

In short, honour your parents (even if they commit dishonourable acts). Because, one day, they will be gone. Dead and no longer capable of decisive action. But you who had the discipline (and the sense of self-sacrifice) to honour them will be a different type of human: an improved version and, those children (and their children) who will be brought up in the moral universe your service calls into being will themselves be the types of humans that our society requires.

Eja,
Lets hook up tommorow at around 22hrs GMT at that oriental bar at the basement of Hilton, Park Lane to celebrate the above response.

U must one hell of a Grandma's boy!

Cheers,
Wale Akin

busanga
Jan 17, 2008, 07:03 PM
Yes a grand ma boy...question to be asked..how much did grand ma thinking put him ahead of the rest of the world?
Just wondering...

To help him answer his own questions, Gbenga has done no wrong by making allegations. Since it is still at accusatory level and the court is yet to deal with this case, all y'all condemning the accuser or the accused are just jumping on the band wagon. No offence has been committed under cultural or legal norms: only a hell lot of a good investigative journalism and citizen democracy is ongoing which retrogressive forces cannot bear. What skeleton is in your wardrobe? The day of judgement is nigh. And by the way, a sperm donor is not equal to a parent..even in my culture! And yes, I am a true son of EKITI.

.bebi
Jan 17, 2008, 07:48 PM
Liz,since when did yoruba become our linga franca?

EezeeBee
Jan 17, 2008, 08:09 PM
Liz,since when did yoruba become our linga franca?

Or since when did Yoruba become 'Nigeria's' lingua franca?

Ishola Taiwo
Jan 17, 2008, 08:33 PM
Yes a grand ma boy...question to be asked..how much did grand ma thinking put him ahead of the rest of the world?
Just wondering...


Really now sah, is the above necessary? How does it advance what we are trying to do here? Ehn? Shame on you....:neutral:.


To help him answer his own questions, Gbenga has done no wrong by making allegations. Since it is still at accusatory level and the court is yet to deal with this case, all y'all condemning the accuser or the accused are just jumping on the band wagon. No offence has been committed under cultural or legal norms: only a hell lot of a good investigative journalism and citizen democracy is ongoing which retrogressive forces cannot bear. What skeleton is in your wardrobe? The day of judgement is nigh. And by the way, a sperm donor is not equal to a parent..even in my culture! And yes, I am a true son of EKITI.



You still no get am...make I explain some more to you...you see, if the men that are presently accused of committing heinous acts are indeed guilty, then they can be rightly described as ones who have dishonoured their lineage. Ones who are not conversant with the moral principle that enjoins us to honour our parents....you understand?

What I am saying is, do not respond to sin by committing sin. Two wrongs will never make a right.

By spilling dirt on your name, you dishonour the ones who gave you the name and, by spilling dirt on your name in response to certain acts, you dishonour not only those who gave you the name but also those with whom you share the name.

Imagine if honouring our lineage became a governing principle, imagine if we viewed dirtying our family name with the same reprehension that we view eating from a garbage dump or, jumping into a cesspit to wrestle with some mad-man who insulted us...imagine if, as a matter of course, people would rather die than live with the shame that comes with carrying a notorious name. Oga Busanga, imagine what our country would be like.

I repeat, certain ways of thinking have to stop somewhere....certain ways of thinking have to start with some people...why not us?

ikechiji
Jan 17, 2008, 08:45 PM
By spilling dirt on your name, you dishonour the ones who gave you the name and, by spilling dirt on your name in response to certain acts, you dishonour not only those who gave you the name but also those with whom you share the name.

Eja - abeg break this down for me. What honour is there to a family name where incest is part of the family tradition? The act of committing incest dishonoured and defiled the family name!

VOR
Jan 18, 2008, 01:29 AM
I am quite surprised at the way some have taken this case of Gbenga ‘outing’ his father and father in law, some seem to be victimising the victim, Gbenga. I am not aware of any part of Yoruba culture where sleeping with one’s daughter or daughter in law is part of culture, as far as I know it is an abomination! If Gbenga’s allegation is true, why are some expecting him to say nothing, ko fi shosun fi para, abi (endure it, not so?) no wonder sexual abuse of minors in Nigeria is rampant with victims living with the consequences for years and sometimes becoming abusers of themselves and others.

I will say I am furious with Gbenga for outing this because of the effect it will have on their children not because of some cultural thing that says one should cover the mess/ihoho (nakedness) of a father/father-in-law that lost all respect when they decided to get into bed with his wife.

Where exactly has Gbenga gone against culture? Did he call a press conference? Did he go to radio and tv stations to talk about what his father and father in law did? No! he swore an affidavit in court to defend himself against a claim for child support and maintenance made by Moji, so where in this has Gbenga gone against culture? Should he not have defended himself with the affidavit? Should he have gone to the Alake and ask the Alake not only to divorce him and Moji but also order Moji not to ask him for money for the upkeep of these children and not respond to Moji’s motion in court? Ok, if he does that, how does he proof that the children are his? Will the Alake conduct DNA test in the Afin (Palace)? How binding on all parties will the decision of the Alake be on all parties? What guarantee is there that Moji will not take him to the cleaners if he did not respond to her motion in court?

Some suggest that Gbenga should have settled it in the family? Which family? Is this the family Obasanjo so respects or the community he so respects that he had some of their chiefs imprisoned because they opposed his wish to install his candidate as the Olowu (king of Owu) some years back? Which of the elders in that community will dare sit Obasanjo down to scold or even question him on this issue? Is it is dear friend Ajibola that will scold him and settle matters, do we know how some of these elders themselves think?

Gbenga knows his father more than all of us here, he has assessed the situation and come out with the option that he believes will work better for him. Yes, he defended his father in his interview with Sowore, so what? But that doesn’t mean that if his father has deeply offended him, he should bear it because he had defended his father in an interview earlier, that point makes no sense whatsoever to me. Should Gbenga defend his father in an interview and not defend himself when so much is at stake for him? Did his father come out then to defend him when Gbenga himself was under attack? Also ask yourselves if Gbenga was aware of the position of things between his father and Moji then or if he got to find out or was given concrete proof later – there are people willing to give such info and proof in Nigeria now.

Gbenga is not my favourite person, and I will still hold my peace concerning this allegation until it is proven. My point however is, people should not castigate Gbenga for going to court to defend himself. If his affidavit got into the papers, so be it! It is left for father and father –in-law to defend themselves and proof to court (which will probably be carried in the papers) that Gbenga ti ya were o, ero gba lon pa ni nu ewe affidavit yen o. (Gbenga don kolo patapata, na proper lie hin talk for that affidavit) if it is then proven that Gbenga did lie, ehen, then we can condemn him for disgracing his father.

In my opinion there is no smoke without fire, something went/is going down in that family. Lets watch out for stage two but this thing about not disgracing your father in public is a non issue for now, until the allegation is proven. If it turns out that Gbenga is right, then all those babas out there committing this type of atrocity will know that it may soon be their turn to be outed.

As much as I love some aspects of Yoruba culture, there are some parts of the culture that needs to be done away with, a culture that encourages protecting abusers has to be done away with PERIOD. We cannot continue to encourage such behaviour, enough is really enough! There are young kids going through such abuse now, the more we continue encouraging the protection of the abusers the more the abuse goes unchecked behind closed doors. At least now until the two baba’s clear their names, responsible mothers will think twice before leaving their young girls un-attended with these babas.

An elder that doesn’t want to be disgraced in public, a wu wa agba (he will act like an elder) agba ti o wu wa agba a kan abuku, (an elder who fails to act as an elder will face disgrace) finito!!


VOR
It is in order to avoid what the child and his generations to come (expect if Divine Intevention of course) will end up going through that the mother ought to start crying out now and seeking help and for his father's forgiveness.

Crying out? egba mi egba mi ooo abi? (save me save me) why? because her ex-husband crossed boundaries and did the unthinkable with his daughter in law? Just yesterday I was explaining to Tony that this is what is done in Yoruba culture. Ask for forgiveness because he dared marry a wife his father found irresistable and couldn't stop himself from sleeping with her!! my goodness!! Don't you think this in itself is dehumanising? Not only has this ex-husband of hers separated/divorced her, he has married several women after her and had dozens of children not from her. As if that is not enough, he now decides, humm, I think I like Gbenga's wife, let me have sex with her; and you think this woman, Gbenga's mother should be seeking forgiveness for Gbenga? Abegi!! Left to me, she should strip herself naked and send konk curses to Obj if she knows the allegation is true.

No matter what (a o riru eleyi ri, a fi nderu ba oloro ni o) if the baba remove his trousers to curse him, ehn! a ti we iru e danu?

Walahi the curse will be baba "return to sender"!! Ones curse can only be successful when the person making the curse is guiltless, ni ile Yoo'ba (in Yorubaland) Obj's alleged act is an abomination, Gbenga's act is what is regarded as iwa ewe (childish) not an abomination. Gbenga cannot suffer the consequences of a curse from Obj if Obj is guilty of Gbenga's accusation. That kind of curse is ofutu fete (empty). In Yorubaland, a kin gbe ebi fun alare re, ka gbe a re, fun elebi (we don't blame the innocent and pardon the guilty)
As my Chief Speaker has rightly said in his last post, I will also be rounding off my submission.

Since I have been able to draw the attention of all you true mothers to our line of argument, can anyone please tell me if she will like to be seen as this sort of a mother:

I am still trying to follow your line of argument. You seem in my opinion to be blaming all but the alleged perp himself, Obj. Now Gbenga's mother is to be blamed for this!! it is ga ju o!!! The failure of her children's marriage is down to her and couldn't be down to their father that abandoned them to chase different skirts abi na iro?(wrapper)

Kenn
Jan 18, 2008, 02:07 AM
Hello Katampe,


I totally dislike a deliberate attempt to DISinform and MISinform people and this is what our honourable Katampe has done in his current debate.

Prof Olikoye Ransome-Kuti gave a press interview when his brother, Fela Anikulapo-Kuti died and it was at that interview that the cause of death was made public- The former never released the info while his Brother was still alive!

Kindly correct this pls!

Cheers,
Wale Akin




Shoko, WaleAkin & All,

I think a danger is brewing here that we must now nip in the bud; otherwise, our experience here will be devoid of the fun we crave. WaleAkin's umbrage against Katampe here is uncalled for. There must be, for our own good, what I will term here privity of debate. We cannot allow people to be taking excerpts from one debate and be discussing it in another one or to go to any other part of this board to bring out quotes or excerpts purportedly being the debaters' contradictory view and so on.

Let's clarify this again – every debate is solely for its own purpose. That is the uniqueness of The Crucible. Here, we are not making moral judgment of each other; we are not talking about what our true belief is; we are having fun! There are several avenues elsewhere on this board to go talk seriously!

Imagine yourself in a hall. Sitting on the high table are the judges. You are sitting there on one table with your team as Proposers while others are on the other side as Opposers and the audience are sitting right there watching. Now, if you're on the floor debating Katampe over any issue, would you, to make a point in relation to that debate, begin to recall things your opponent said outside the debate, say when you were in a car coming to the venue or in another debate of similar topic in another venue at another time? Of course not! You are judged in a debate based on the position you take in that very debate and the things you said there, not elsewhere. That is why it is possible for a debater to argue any side of a case at different times, depending on his mood or the group he belongs to within the debate without being morally judged. What we're doing at The Crucible is the same – only we're doing it online!

Thus, WaleAkin, if you have issues with Katampe's comments in the other debate, please go to its related thread and take him on. I happen to share some part of your view over the Olikoye comment, but if I have to comment on it, I'll do so in my response to Katampe in the substantive debate or in the related thread.

This has to be said and repeated, so that people can understand that it's a fundamental part of the mindset we need to make progress here. Already I've read posts here that show that some people are still adopting the mentality of discussions in the other threads outside The Crucible.



CHEERS!

Tola Odejayi
Jan 18, 2008, 02:42 AM
Kenn,

I think it's less hassle and more straightforward for someone simply to debate what he believes in. If he is unwise to debate a position contrary to what he believes in, he should be prepared for his words to be twisted against him, because for some people, even the argument that "I said that in the course of debate" is not enough to convince.

busanga
Jan 18, 2008, 04:19 AM
Really now sah, is the above necessary? How does it advance what we are trying to do here? Ehn? Shame on you....:neutral:.



You still no get am...make I explain some more to you...you see, if the men that are presently accused of committing heinous acts are indeed guilty, then they can be rightly described as ones who have dishonoured their lineage. Ones who are not conversant with the moral principle that enjoins us to honour our parents....you understand?

What I am saying is, do not respond to sin by committing sin. Two wrongs will never make a right.

By spilling dirt on your name, you dishonour the ones who gave you the name and, by spilling dirt on your name in response to certain acts, you dishonour not only those who gave you the name but also those with whom you share the name.

Imagine if honouring our lineage became a governing principle, imagine if we viewed dirtying our family name with the same reprehension that we view eating from a garbage dump or, jumping into a cesspit to wrestle with some mad-man who insulted us...imagine if, as a matter of course, people would rather die than live with the shame that comes with carrying a notorious name. Oga Busanga, imagine what our country would be like.

I repeat, certain ways of thinking have to stop somewhere....certain ways of thinking have to start with some people...why not us?

My friend, you can change a name for twenty naira in any customary or magistrate court in Idumota. These people! I for one had a different last name when I was born, I cant even spell it again- even though I used it to write my Waec...none of my friends by the way can recall it. So much for name glorification over the cause of justice and truth. We need to get our priorities right people.

Kenn
Jan 18, 2008, 04:38 AM
Kenn,

I think it's less hassle and more straightforward for someone simply to debate what he believes in. If he is unwise to debate a position contrary to what he believes in, he should be prepared for his words to be twisted against him, because for some people, even the argument that "I said that in the course of debate" is not enough to convince.



Shoko,

Then what is the whole purpose of having The Crucible? Why call it a place of "Pointed Debate"? For me there's no purpose coming here if I'm supposed to be debating my beliefs. I don't debate my beliefs – I discuss and express these as I deem fit in the other threads on the board. They are not questions for debates, because they are my beliefs, which I'd gladly put alongside others who share my values, moral, political and social standpoint over whatever issue those beliefs apply to.

It would seem to me that we have different ideas what the term "debate" means here in The Crucible. While you look at it as just the normal discussion we've always had, but here with two principal drivers and a Moderator; I look at it in a more technical and formal sense. If you can't look at it in its technical and formal sense, then it is no more than what we've been doing all over the board already. It's duplication by another name! In fact, if I'm not here now, I'd be asking myself: what benefit would I gain by leaving a free part of the board to go to a place where I'm moderated and forced to go into some side corners called "related threads"? Indeed, it's almost masochistic! If I'm outside here, I won't feel the urge to come in. I won't feel I'm missing out on anything.

The nature of debates-properly-so-called is such that it sometimes ultimately does not leave room for beliefs, because propositions and oppositions are sometimes and necessarily couched in extremes and where not seemingly presented in that light, some end up being argued in that form. When you get Propositions like: "It is better to train doctors than teachers"; "Dogs are better pets than cats", "What a man can do a woman can do better", "Democracy is better than economic development" and so on, you are required to suspend belief on the fact that in reality, it is necessary to train teachers and doctors; that dogs or cats as pets depends on individual tastes; that there are many women and many men who can do things better than the opposite sex and vice versa and that democracy and economic development should go hand in hand. Even take the example of a timeless proposition you suggested in the "Welcome to The Crucible" thread, there are many middle grounds and realistic propositions that simply would not fall into the extreme of presidential fiat over fixed terms of service and it's very opposite expected to be argued by the opposers.

Many informed people do not actually reason in extremes, but in debates, you are expected to do so. There are no middle grounds. People partake in them not because they want people to think what they say while standing in front of a literary and debating audience is exactly what they feel. Everyone is there to enjoy friendly adversarial fencing with words, their beauty and the contrasting styles of delivery. If we aren't going that route here, I wonder what the whole thing is about.



CHEERS!

busanga
Jan 18, 2008, 04:44 AM
Wow..what a thesis. I think Kenn speaks of the kind of debate that scattered Nigeria. The one that made Balewa think Opposition leader meant enemy of state. lol..no wonder they say we are not ripe for parliamentary democracy. There can be debate without extremes- in fact debate can be intellectual and enriching. I hope that is the kind of debate we have, not the high on style, low on substance type. I think NVS and Shoko already pioneered a unique idea, may be Shoko can add some flavour and drama to it by putting a voting thread so the villagers can pick a winner after every debate session :D. Just my two cents.

Kenn
Jan 18, 2008, 04:58 AM
Wow..what a thesis. I think Kenn speaks of the kind of debate that scattered Nigeria. The one that made Balewa think Opposition leader meant enemy of state. lol..no wonder they say we are not ripe for parliamentary democracy. There can be debate without extremes- in fact debate can be intellectual and enriching. I hope that is the kind of debate we have, not the high on style, low on substance type. I think NVS and Shoko already pioneered a unique idea, may be Shoko can add some flavour and drama to it by putting a voting thread so the villagers can pick a winner after every debate session :D. Just my two cents.



Busanga,

There's so much misrepresentation in this ‘little' comment of yours, I'm tempted not to even begin to bother. Suffice it to say you do not understand what I'm saying. However, if you genuinely and truly begin to ask yourself why in the same breath you're asking Shoko to consider declaring winners after debates and where you've seen such a format before, you will begin to understand what I'm saying. You will understand the difference between debates as mere discussions and exchange of opinions and debates as formal propositions put forward and opposed by persons or groups in front of an audience.


CHEERS!

Tola Odejayi
Jan 18, 2008, 05:59 AM
Kenn,

I don't say that people should be forced to debate a position that they believe in; I just recommend that they do so for the reasons I've given.

You are very free to debate a position that you don't believe in if that suits you - but I trust you will allow others the liberty of only debating only positions that they believe in.

If it helps, I will include in the rules a note that a position that Proponents and Opponents hold during the debate should not be regarded as their views outside the debate - but since when did rules stop people from jumping to wrong conclusions?

Ishola Taiwo
Jan 18, 2008, 06:43 AM
Eja - abeg break this down for me. What honour is there to a family name where incest is part of the family tradition? The act of committing incest dishonoured and defiled the family name!

Ikechiji, can you state without doubt that incest is a part of the Obasanjo family tradition?

Has it been proven yet that these allegations are true?

Why the rush to proceed as if this matter is closed as far as truth or falsity is concerned?

And, why this recourse to the easy option of labeling any who presents a view that deviates from the popular as a defender of filth?

The topic is clear : filial respect; the reasons for the positions taken have been stated and re-stated over and over - that it is the duty of all who carry a family name to guard it against stain. Because the family name is a heirloom that belongs not only to those who are living, but also to those who have passed on, to those who are yet to be born and, to those who have barely made a start in life.

However, this tendency to keep equating that position with a defence of incest persists. So, anyone who is not singing from the same hymn-sheet as the choir that has gathered around this particular anti-Olusegun Obasanjo altar is automatically one who seeks to give protection to practitioners of incest.

In my opinion, this stands as a good justification of the proposal that future debates on this Crucible should not be based around topical events.

However, we have started with this one. We might as well finish it so, I will elaborate some more on the points I considered before choosing my position on this debate :

Who actually instituted divorce proceedings? And, how many cases of adultery does one need to be able to have favorable grounds for divorce?

These questions enquire about the character of the son. Because, on hearing about the relations between his wife and her father, we would have expected the son to immediately put an end to the marriage and to then seek restitution/justice. Did he do that or, did he in fact carry on having relations with her? If the answer to this last question is "no", if any Villager knows for a fact that on learning of his wife's deeds with his father, the son immediately ceased sleeping with her, then please speak up. However, if he still kept on having sex with her even after he knew that his father was doing the same, then we have to admit that this portrayal of the son as some type of moral crusader is way of the mark.

We are also told that the sexual characteristics of his wife were traumatic to him.....how come then that it was she who sued for divorce?

Finally, if his intention had been to convince the court that his wife was an adultress, from what we saw in his affidavit, he already had enough material to make that allegation without introducing accusations that would harm not only those who share his own name, but also those who share the name of his father-in-law.

This lack of concern for the collateral damage to innocents that accompanied his unnecessary allegations is the reason why I described him as one who had done wrong.

Now, if within all I say you see a defence for incest, please point it out.

EezeeBee
Jan 18, 2008, 06:44 AM
And here I was getting ready to really enjoy the Crucible and it's promise of 'Pointed Debates'!

I think this 'pointed debates' idea of SLBs is an excellent instance of good value added to the board because it returns to the philosophical underpining of NVS - To be the best INTELLECTUAL destination for Nigerians and friends of Nigeria on the Internet(s):D. Sorry the 'intellectual in me couldn't resist!:razz:

Anew, I have an opportunity to revel in intellectual interactions between NVSers rather than the sometimes tiring tirade of responses to the latest news of today's Nigerian criminal ruiner - oops ruler, Legis-looter - oops Legislator or Representa-thief, oops Representative!

Wikipedia defines debate thus:


Debate (North American English) or debating (British English) is a formal method of interactive and position representational argument. Debate is a broader form of argument than logical argument, since it includes persuasion which appeals to the emotional responses of an audience, and rules enabling people to discuss and decide on differences, within a framework defining how they will interact.

Informal debate is a common occurrence, but the quality and depth of a debate improves with knowledge and skill of its participants as debaters. Deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts engage in debates. The outcome of a debate may be decided by audience vote, by judges, or by some combination of the two.

Additionally, Webster's Online Dictionary defines it thus:


Main Entry:
1de&#183;bate Listen to the pronunciation of 1debate
Pronunciation:
di-ˈbāt, dē-
Function:
noun
Date:
13th century

: a contention by words or arguments: as a: the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure b: a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides


From my secondary school recollection, the 'fun' of the debate was in the presentation of the debaters viewpoint. For example, if one was required to debate 'Milo is a better breakfast beverage than Horlicks', depending on the side of the debate your team was assigned, you had ample opportunity to promote the benefits of Horlicks even if you were a die-hard Milo fan.

I concede that as originator of the idea, SLB reserves the right to define and refine the rules as he sees necessary. However, I concur with Kenn that if one can be 'confronted' with one's stated positions from other threads on the boards then the crucible is virtually indistinguishable from elsewhere on the board.

Albeit a latecomer to the concept, I think the Crucible should be distinguished as a location where the ability to marshal viewpoints or facts to back a stated position, in a persuasive manner, is the prime basis for participation and assessment.

Kenn
Jan 18, 2008, 09:24 AM
Eezeebee,

Thank you for that honest and enlightening contribution.

ikechiji
Jan 18, 2008, 11:31 AM
Ikechiji, can you state without doubt that incest is a part of the Obasanjo family tradition?

I did not accuse the Obasanjo family or any other family of incest. I merely asked a rhetorical question in response to your qualified statement:



if the men that are presently accused of committing heinous acts are indeed guilty ... By spilling dirt on your name, you dishonour the ones who gave you the name ...

What I hope we can do is have a healthy debate in a generic sense as to when it is culturally "acceptable" for someone to publicly disclose information about incest or other moral breaches such as in-house sexual affairs.

If a young girl is sexually abused by her father, is it ever culturally acceptable for her to publicly disclose this information? You raise the issue of "dishonouring" a family name as a raison d'etre for her not to disclose it. I say hogwash to that argument. Dr. Osundeko (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8328/55), Tatafo (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/board/main-square/44031-obasanjo-s-family-replies-4.html#post4294980974) and Soul Sista (http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/board/main-square/44031-obasanjo-s-family-replies-6.html#post4294981046) have eloquently presented the case of how society can benefit in the long-term from public disclosure of such information.

The second scenario is this: If my father slept with my wife, would I ever publicly disclose this information? In all likelihood, I personally would not because I treasure my privacy. However, I would not want to take away the right of somebody else to publicly disclose that information. We must move away from arguments of shielding bad and possibly criminal behaviour under the guise of some cultural norm (or family name honour) and respect the rights of individuals to make a personal choice about how to deal with a bad situation. For some individuals, public disclosure is therapeutic, for others it may not be.

Vaya Con Dios
Jan 18, 2008, 01:41 PM
Crying out? egba mi egba mi ooo abi? (save me save me) why? because her ex-husband crossed boundaries and did the unthinkable with his daughter in law? Just yesterday I was explaining to Tony that this is what is done in Yoruba culture. Ask for forgiveness because he dared marry a wife his father found irresistable and couldn't stop himself from sleeping with her!! my goodness!!

My sista, I no understand the part wey dey in bold type o! I was enjoying your response initially, and nodding my head in agreement until I got to that part. What aspect of Yoruba culture, are we referring to here? I have lived in the various parts of the South-west for decades and I don't think I have come across this bit, yet.

In most cases, if an elder oversteps his boundary he is chastised privately, and reprimanded by his peers or those older than him, but NOT in the presence of the younger one. If the younger person is asked to apologise for anything at all, it would probably be due to his uncouth words or intemperate use of language against the elder person, who has offended him. There are various forms of seeking redress that a younger person can use, if an elder has offended him.


Don't you think this in itself is dehumanising? Not only has this ex-husband of hers separated/divorced her, he has married several women after her and had dozens of children not from her. As if that is not enough, he now decides, humm, I think I like Gbenga's wife, let me have sex with her; and you think this woman, Gbenga's mother should be seeking forgiveness for Gbenga? Abegi!! Left to me, she should strip herself naked and send konk curses to Obj if she knows the allegation is true.


Yup, I agree with your conclusion up here. Mrs. Obasanjo should not be blamed for this, but then, neither should she play the ostrich where it concerns OBJ's alleged sampling of his DIL. In fact, like most Yoruba MIL's, I expect she would have summoned DIL to her residence and given her a thorough dressing down or tongue-lashing, if this episode were found to be true. She should ask Moji "what is the meaning of all this?" and proceed to extract the truth from her, using a thorough drilling process.

Anyway sha, I still feel sorry for all those involved. May God step in to resolve this issue, because it seems clearly out of the hands of man, now.

lizmoses
Jan 18, 2008, 02:02 PM
I am quite surprised at the way some have taken this case of Gbenga ‘outing' his father and father in law, some seem to be victimising the victim, Gbenga. I am not aware of any part of Yoruba culture where sleeping with one's daughter or daughter in law is part of culture, as far as I know it is an abomination! If Gbenga's allegation is true, why are some expecting him to say nothing, ko fi shosun fi para, abi (endure it, not so?) no wonder sexual abuse of minors in Nigeria is rampant with victims living with the consequences for years and sometimes becoming abusers of themselves and others.

I will say I am furious with Gbenga for outing this because of the effect it will have on their children not because of some cultural thing that says one should cover the mess/ihoho (nakedness) of a father/father-in-law that lost all respect when they decided to get into bed with his wife.

Where exactly has Gbenga gone against culture? Did he call a press conference? Did he go to radio and tv stations to talk about what his father and father in law did? No! he swore an affidavit in court to defend himself against a claim for child support and maintenance made by Moji, so where in this has Gbenga gone against culture? Should he not have defended himself with the affidavit? Should he have gone to the Alake and ask the Alake not only to divorce him and Moji but also order Moji not to ask him for money for the upkeep of these children and not respond to Moji's motion in court? Ok, if he does that, how does he proof that the children are his? Will the Alake conduct DNA test in the Afin (Palace)? How binding on all parties will the decision of the Alake be on all parties? What guarantee is there that Moji will not take him to the cleaners if he did not respond to her motion in court?

Some suggest that Gbenga should have settled it in the family? Which family? Is this the family Obasanjo so respects or the community he so respects that he had some of their chiefs imprisoned because they opposed his wish to install his candidate as the Olowu (king of Owu) some years back? Which of the elders in that community will dare sit Obasanjo down to scold or even question him on this issue? Is it is dear friend Ajibola that will scold him and settle matters, do we know how some of these elders themselves think?

Gbenga knows his father more than all of us here, he has assessed the situation and come out with the option that he believes will work better for him. Yes, he defended his father in his interview with Sowore, so what? But that doesn't mean that if his father has deeply offended him, he should bear it because he had defended his father in an interview earlier, that point makes no sense whatsoever to me. Should Gbenga defend his father in an interview and not defend himself when so much is at stake for him? Did his father come out then to defend him when Gbenga himself was under attack? Also ask yourselves if Gbenga was aware of the position of things between his father and Moji then or if he got to find out or was given concrete proof later – there are people willing to give such info and proof in Nigeria now.

Gbenga is not my favourite person, and I will still hold my peace concerning this allegation until it is proven. My point however is, people should not castigate Gbenga for going to court to defend himself. If his affidavit got into the papers, so be it! It is left for father and father –in-law to defend themselves and proof to court (which will probably be carried in the papers) that Gbenga ti ya were o, ero gba lon pa ni nu ewe affidavit yen o. (Gbenga don kolo patapata, na proper lie hin talk for that affidavit) if it is then proven that Gbenga did lie, ehen, then we can condemn him for disgracing his father.

In my opinion there is no smoke without fire, something went/is going down in that family. Lets watch out for stage two but this thing about not disgracing your father in public is a non issue for now, until the allegation is proven. If it turns out that Gbenga is right, then all those babas out there committing this type of atrocity will know that it may soon be their turn to be outed.

As much as I love some aspects of Yoruba culture, there are some parts of the culture that needs to be done away with, a culture that encourages protecting abusers has to be done away with PERIOD. We cannot continue to encourage such behaviour, enough is really enough! There are young kids going through such abuse now, the more we continue encouraging the protection of the abusers the more the abuse goes unchecked behind closed doors. At least now until the two baba's clear their names, responsible mothers will think twice before leaving their young girls un-attended with these babas.

An elder that doesn't want to be disgraced in public, a wu wa agba (he will act like an elder) agba ti o wu wa agba a kan abuku, (an elder who fails to act as an elder will face disgrace) finito!!

VOR,

I just logged on and honestly I am also trying to make sense of your counter-argument. Maybe when I do, I will reply. But just to re-inform you, I do not have a change of opinion concerning this debate.

Cheers.

Gentle Angel
Jan 18, 2008, 02:49 PM
Here is a summary of Wale Akin's arguments:

- Gbenga Obasanjo was wrong to make the allegations that he made of his father's relationship with his wife.

- As the first son of his father, he has a responsibility to set an example to his junior siblings on how to respect his father and thus maintain the unity of the family;

- To make the allegations he has made is a breach of parental respect, and also drags the the family name into disrepute, and it could make it more difficult for female members of the Obasanjo family to get good husbands;

- It is unfair to expose his children to an unnecessary amount of media attention by doing so;

- Exposing the affair to all and sundry is an invitation to outsiders to intervene in the family affair - even when these outsiders may not be qualified to do so (just as police officers are called on to intervene in a domestic dispute in the West);

- It is against Yoruba tradition to do what he has done, and if he has an issue with his father, he should have settled it by referring the matter to Yoruba Elders and given them enough time to settle the matter instead of exposing it for everyone to comment on;

- Gbenga's motives are not sincere, after all, he previously has been very complimentary of his father in a previous interview with Omoyele Sowore.

Very strong points, I doff my hat. Have to say I have learnt a lot through this debate and hope the other one would yield the same thing. By the time one sees more of these 'pointed debates' one can internalise the best way of marshalling their points.

Auspicious
Jan 18, 2008, 03:52 PM
Finally, My Thoughts..

God forbid bad tin, but I shall be that 'bastaad son' IF ever I confirm with absolute certainity, that my father (again, heavens forbid!!!) climbs on top of my woman and dips his Majik Stik in her Ponyon.

I say, WOE BETIDE SUCH A FATHER! His will be a lesson NOT only for him, BUT for others like him out there NEVER to try such abomination again! There has got to be very painful price to pay for such. Since I can't kill him, I can't at least make the price as painful for him as possible..for causing me as much pain as he did through his sadistically greedy act.

Fawk traditions of respect and protection of family name; such is nothing but a continued protection of another of some of the horrible vices that happen under the cover of darkness in many African societies! My prayer is that may God protect YOUR father from conniving with the Devil to mess with your woman..or, YOUR mother sleeping with your Husband. O gosh...Argh!

That is akin to setting one's son or daughter on fire alive! IF the Obasanjo story is true, Obasanjo should count himself lucky that Gbenga has not pulled the trigger of a double-barrel on his (OBJ's) head yet - which goes to say, the Gbenga man sef is still very rational right about now to seek civil redress in the Court of Law.

I don't even know why this is a debate anyways..:rolleyes:

Auspicious.

WaleAkin
Jan 18, 2008, 04:15 PM
Ponyon
Auspy,
I find this word so much amusing!

It's important to say that while i was growing up in those formative days of absolute discipline, my Mother(Iya Wale) told me that the Peni.s is called KOKORO and those supposedly gutter words like Epon, Oko, Obo were banned 6000 yards from our domain. I learnt these words at school and was always a laughing stock when i call my Oko and/or Epon a kokoro

Our parents with such funny words in those days!

elgaxton
Jan 18, 2008, 04:38 PM
Finally, My Thoughts..

God forbid bad tin, but I shall be that 'bastaad son' IF ever I confirm with absolute certainity, that my father (again, heavens forbid!!!) climbs on top of my woman and dips his Majik Stik in her Ponyon.

I say, WOE BETIDE SUCH A FATHER! His will be a lesson NOT only for him, BUT for others like him out there NEVER to try such abomination again! There has got to be very painful price to pay for such. Since I can't kill him, I can't at least make the price as painful for him as possible..for causing me as much pain as he did through his sadistically greedy act.

Fawk traditions of respect and protection of family name; such is nothing but a continued protection of another of some of the horrible vices that happen under the cover of darkness in many African societies! My prayer is that may God protect YOUR father from conniving with the Devil to mess with your woman..or, YOUR mother sleeping with your Husband. O gosh...Argh!

That is akin to setting one's son or daughter on fire alive! IF the Obasanjo story is true, Obasanjo should count himself lucky that Gbenga has not pulled the trigger of a double-barrel on his (OBJ's) head yet - which goes to say, the Gbenga man sef is still very rational right about now to seek civil redress in the Court of Law.

I don't even know why this is a debate anyways..:rolleyes:

Auspicious.

Auspy Baba

Na dat highlighted part of ur post me dey interestedin o.

If I find out that kain thing eh, Ol boy Double -barrel gun no go reach me at all.


BAZUKA na him i go take blow him OKO or Blokkus as Tony would say:razz:

Ishola Taiwo
Jan 18, 2008, 06:09 PM
I did not accuse the Obasanjo family or any other family of incest. I merely asked a rhetorical question in response to your qualified statement:



Ikechiji, I fail to see the fairness in the assumption that it is OK to use fellow humans as the objects of this particular type of rhetorical query. As we have seen from the sort of responses that Gentle Angel received to her own query, nobody likes to have this particular type of finger pointed in their direction.

If we were talking from the start in terms of some hypothetical Chief X, his son Mr XX and his wife Mrs XX, then it would be a different matter.


What I hope we can do is have a healthy debate in a generic sense as to when it is culturally "acceptable" for someone to publicly disclose information about incest or other moral breaches such as in-house sexual affairs.


Agreed. But like I said above, when the objects used in such debates are actually people who are yet to be proven guilty as charged, and, when the language of one side of the debate already presumes guilt (in spite of the multiple uses of the phrase "if the stories are true"), then our debate is in danger of turning into nothing more than a procedural lynching.


If a young girl is sexually abused by her father, is it ever culturally acceptable for her to publicly disclose this information? You raise the issue of "dishonouring" a family name as a raison d'etre for her not to disclose it. I say hogwash to that argument.

You see now, here again we have the conflating of one thing with another in order that an opposing position can be undermined. The topic is "disgracing your father" (and by association your lineage) not "when is incest right?". I can assure you, had that last one been the topic, I would not be here talking this way. At no time have I (or anybody else) stated that it is culturally acceptable for a victim of sexual abuse to provide cover the abuser(s). The specific topic here is to do with the way the party who brought this matter into public light went about seeking restitution for alleged offences against his marriage. I would like you to please address the questions I asked in my last post regarding the timeline of events and of the necessity for the son, who already had enough "proof" of his wife's infidelity to add on to his list of grievances evidence that accounts to no more than hearsay.

Like I said before, we cannot keep talking about the desirability for the rule of law without being prepared to accept that such a rule should unfold in all realms with no prejudice. Even a hardened criminal should have his/her day in court. Event like this, and how we react to them, are tests of our commitment. Why have we been so quick to see injustice when we hear unproven allegations of a father sleeping with his daughter-in-law while remaining blind to the effects such an unproven allegation of depravity would have on innocents? Innocents who, by virtue of sharing the same lineage as the accused, will now be linked in public consciousness to foulness...

Or could it be that deep down, we believe that they deserve whatever they get...that to be related to a figure of hatred is now a crime...is this why some are prepared to overlook this point? If this is so, if it is permitted to be unconcerned about the collateral damage visited on innocents when public 'justice' comes calling, where will the boundaries be? Why should non-Yoruba not look on all Yoruba as kinsmen of perversion? Why should non-Nigerians not do the same to Nigerians?

Multiple uses of phrases like "if the stories are true" only present a facade of fairness. There is no fairness here...the total opposite in fact.


The second scenario is this: If my father slept with my wife, would I ever publicly disclose this information? In all likelihood, I personally would not because I treasure my privacy. However, I would not want to take away the right of somebody else to publicly disclose that information. We must move away from arguments of shielding bad and possibly criminal behaviour under the guise of some cultural norm (or family name honour) and respect the rights of individuals to make a personal choice about how to deal with a bad situation. For some individuals, public disclosure is therapeutic, for others it may not be.

I appreciate the sense and honesty in the above paragraph. Just one question though, when you say
However, I would not want to take away the right of somebody else to publicly disclose that information. do you mean that you would not mind if someone else disclosed your personal information?

Or, coming at this from another angle; what if the information that is disclosed infringes on your own treasured privacy even though you were not directly involved in the disclosed matter?

Auspicious
Jan 18, 2008, 06:09 PM
".. supposedly gutter words like Epon, Oko, Obo..

Eeeeeeeewwwwww....!!!!

Wale, I can't talk to you no more!

My Mommy says those werds er Dirty!

Auspicious.

busanga
Jan 18, 2008, 06:25 PM
I think I now get Wale's point of view. He is of the opinion that instead of outing his father, Gbenga should just have taken matters into his own hand and finished him off - by modern or traditional means. I personally think that is true, Nigeria as a country will definitely have benefited :D

ikoyiesho1
Jan 18, 2008, 08:36 PM
Villagers,

I will refuse to believe that what Gbenga has done is ordinary, and therefore should not be considered mere and ordinary, in the OMOLUABI (Yoruba) tradition it is an abomination. and i am sure Gbenga will pay for it, although i am not an obasanjo fan, even if Gbenga had caught his dad red handed with his wife on the bed together, this matter should be settled within the family and not allowed to go out.

What if the DNA confirms that Gbenga himself own the children, what evidence will he have to show that his dad or his father inlaw slept with his wife, what if truly one son belong to Obasanjo and one to gbenga's father in-law, will the stigma ever be quashed?

Will gbenga live if his father is sentenced to jail for adultery, i think he shoud have applied some caution.

Anyway wale Akin i dey your side ooo, but i think someone should have advised this guys( I think he's been pushed by some evil forces).

Austin
Jan 19, 2008, 03:03 AM
Not to spoil the fun o, but I am just wondering sha...

1. Aren't we supposed to be Nigerians and hence detribalised. How come such words as Yoruba culture, Igbo tradition ati bee bee lo have featured prominently in this and other debates?

2. Some misdeed or indeed 'crime' have been alledged and are now in public knowledge, and yet we have not heard anything from the people who are in charge of both/either upholding and/or making laws in the land. How come?

3. There has been a fierce 'public' debate on the merits and demerits of Gbenga Obasanjos action, but none on what should be done about/to those mentioned as having commited some 'misdeed'; plus including of course the accomplices/accessories/withnesses to the fact (?)

4. There have been rumor (long ago) as to the fact that an ex-president was dishonoring the office of the prsident, and yet, there has never been any public enquiries or legislative investigations into he matter (?)

So, just what is going on and where are we likely to get at the end of all these?

Just some thought that I can hardly shake off. Have a nice day all. And thanks for a lively debate.

Oluwato
Jan 19, 2008, 03:46 AM
It is a nice thing that Gbenga exposed his father's misdeeds. That to me is more honorable than suffering in silence or worse, using juju or whatever.

I hope many more children will follow in Gbenga's shoes and take their wicked parents to court. Many uncles, aunties, cousins, siblings, mums and dads in YORUBALAND and Nigeria have gotten away with incest, rape and exploitation under the guise of cultural values that prey on the weak in society and defend the unjust!

I am hopeful that this case will set the pace.

Oluwato

Abraxas
Jan 19, 2008, 09:19 AM
Auspy Baba

Na dat highlighted part of ur post me dey interestedin o.

If I find out that kain thing eh, Ol boy Double -barrel gun no go reach me at all.


BAZUKA na him i go take blow him OKO or Blokkus as Tony would say:razz:

Hi, Elgaxton!

Please note very well: "Oko" is NOT the same thing as "Blokos". If I go need to correct yoo for Brokin, wetin I dey say be sey, "piriki" and "blokos" no be de same t'ing.

Even if yoo take bazooka blow 'ihm blokos, but still yet, 'ihm piriki still remainder, 'ihm go continyu to dey nack ya wife per second, per second! {I t'ink yoo know?}

I beg, go register for School of Brokin Neuro-for Linguistics, Ile Ogbon University of Hard Knocks, kia-kia.


Muchas gracias.

Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)

VOR
Jan 19, 2008, 02:34 PM
My sista, I no understand the part wey dey in bold type o! I was enjoying your response initially, and nodding my head in agreement until I got to that part. What aspect of Yoruba culture, are we referring to here? I have lived in the various parts of the South-west for decades and I don't think I have come across this bit, yet.

In most cases, if an elder oversteps his boundary he is chastised privately, and reprimanded by his peers or those older than him, but NOT in the presence of the younger one. If the younger person is asked to apologise for anything at all, it would probably be due to his uncouth words or intemperate use of language against the elder person, who has offended him. There are various forms of seeking redress that a younger person can use, if an elder has offended him.

VCD my sista!!


I was responding to this post by Lizmoses's


VOR
It is in order to avoid what the child and his generations to come (expect if Divine Intevention of course) will end up going through that the mother ought to start crying out now and seeking help and for his father's forgiveness.


She suggests here that Gbenga's mother should start crying out and seeking Obj's forgiveness to avoid what Gbenga and his generations will end up going through and/or been cursed by his father. I had asked why the mother should be seeking Obj's forgiveness if the allegation is true? Unfortunately, in this situation, Yoruba culture requires Gbenga to ask for forgiveness for disgracing his father like this - this is what I have a problem with, why should Gbenga ask forgiveness if the allegation is true? What happens to his rights as a human being? Why can't both father's ask for his forgiveness if they have done as alleged? However in Yoruba culture as far as I know, an elder is not required to seek forgiveness for offending his/her junior, he/she is required to se atunse (make amends) but not apologise, instead the junior is asked to. You hear things like - se bi egbon e ni (he's your senior) or sebi, baba/iya e ni (he's your father/mother) a le ni ki won toro idariji lowo e, e wo lo ma be won (we can't ask them to seek your forgiveness, you have to apologise)

I have witnessed several family meetings were the elder involved is so clearly in the wrong, however the person offended, if younger is required to seek forgiveness, even if that person has not used uncouth words or intemperate language against the elder person. For example, a father who had turned the daughter out of the house because of his new wife and ignored the child for years. When the girl was to get married, the family asked her to go and apologise to the father for having ignored and not cared for him when she became successful, so that she can get his blessings. Yes, the family had chastised the father for having not cared for his daughter o, but the daughter was required to seek the father's forgiveness.

Vaya, have you ever seen in Yorubaland were an elder is asked to apologise to a younger one for offending him/her? It doesn't happen - except in modern homes- no matter the gravity of the offence, the younger one is expected to bear it. And that is one aspect of Yoruba culture I don't like, another is, wan ki sope agalagba pa ero (they don't say an elder lies) what the ......., even when they know the agbalaga (the elder) has put down one 100 ton lie!!:rolleyes:

Yup, I agree with your conclusion up here. Mrs. Obasanjo should not be blamed for this, but then, neither should she play the ostrich where it concerns OBJ's alleged sampling of his DIL. In fact, like most Yoruba MIL's, I expect she would have summoned DIL to her residence and given her a thorough dressing down or tongue-lashing, if this episode were found to be true. She should ask Moji "what is the meaning of all this?" and proceed to extract the truth from her, using a thorough drilling process.

I don't believe Mrs. Obasanjo is playing the ostrich here, from what I know the woman has not even responded. You suggests she should have called the DIL and question her, do you know if she has or has not? do we know if Moji even respects her MIL enough to answer such summons? or if she has totally ignored all entreaties to resolve this issue? we don't know yet, however for some to suggest that the woman has failed as a mother because her children have been unfortunate enough not to have successful marriages, is in my opinion insensitive. What about the man? Did Mrs. O have these children on her own? Anyway, they say a successful child is the father's whilst the unsuccessful child is the mothers.:rolleyes:

Anyway sha, I still feel sorry for all those involved. May God step in to resolve this issue, because it seems clearly out of the hands of man, now.

God will only step in if He is called to step in by those involved. This is what happens when people gba esu laye (allow satan) in their lives.:redface:

VOR
Jan 19, 2008, 03:15 PM
VOR,

I just logged on and honestly I am also trying to make sense of your counter-argument. Maybe when I do, I will reply. But just to re-inform you, I do not have a change of opinion concerning this debate.

Cheers.


OK, I guess my post was too long, I will break it down, maybe it'll help make sense of my "counter argument". To be clear, I am not engaged in this debate on either side, I am an observer and will contribute when I feel like.

1 - No part of Yoruba culture encourages child abuse or for a FIL to have sexual relations with his DIL. Ni ile Yoruba (in Yorubaland), this is an abomination, advocating the shielding of perps of such acts, in my opinion makes a mockery of Yoruba culture, and encourages such behaviour in our society. We should not be blaming the victim, whilst shielding the perp!

2 - Gbenga did not go to the papers, he swore in an affidavit to defend himself against a claim for maintenance made by Moji for herself and her children. Gbenga has every right in law to defend himself against such claim.

3 - The Alake cannot conduct DNA tests in his palace, neither can he make a legally binding decision on both parties. What is the guarantee that the Alake can/would have ordered DNA test on those kids? That the Alake would not say, ha, ki lon wi yen, awon omo re ni, ma so so ku so. Mo pase pe ki oma to ju awon mo yi, ko de fi oro yi le be (what are you saying, they are your kids, don't talk rubbish. I order that you continue taking care of the kids and leave this matter alone)

4 - The ability of elders and the Obasanjo/Onabanjo families to resolve an issue already in court may have been considered by Gbenga and he had ruled it out. Also, Obj's antecedents doesn't show a man that can be approached by elders over this issue and the matter resolved in favor of ALL parties.

5 - That Gbenga defended his father in his interview with Sowore years ago does not mean that he cannot make such allegations against his father if his father has deeply wounded him. The saying goes that there is a reason why a dog who has been previously affectionate towards you starts barking at you. If Gbenga who can defend his father so vigorously some months back starts making such accusations about this same father he so defended, and he has not been declared insane, should we not be asking the father serious questions not castigating the son for coming out to defend himself?

6 - We should not because of culture condone bad behaviour, any part of culture that encourages such should be done away with immediately before this "culture" destroys more lives.

7 - Mr. and Mrs. Obasanjo are responsible for their children, attempting to blame her for the failure of her children's marriage is most unfair.

I hope this is clearer?

Vaya Con Dios
Jan 19, 2008, 03:24 PM
She suggests here that Gbenga's mother should start crying out and seeking Obj's forgiveness to avoid what Gbenga and his generations will end up going through and/or been cursed by his father. I had asked why the mother should be seeking Obj's forgiveness if the allegation is true? Unfortunately, in this situation, Yoruba culture requires Gbenga to ask for forgiveness for disgracing his father like this - this is what I have a problem with, why should Gbenga ask forgiveness if the allegation is true? What happens to his rights as a human being? Why can't both father's ask for his forgiveness if they have done as alleged? However in Yoruba culture as far as I know, an elder is not required to seek forgiveness for offending his/her junior, he/she is required to se atunse (make amends) but not apologise, instead the junior is asked to. You hear things like - se bi egbon e ni (he's your senior) or sebi, baba/iya e ni (he's your father/mother) a le ni ki won toro idariji lowo e, e wo lo ma be won (we can't ask them to seek your forgiveness, you have to apologise)

I have witnessed several family meetings were the elder involved is so clearly in the wrong, however the person offended, if younger is required to seek forgiveness, even if that person has not used uncouth words or intemperate language against the elder person. For example, a father who had turned the daughter out of the house because of his new wife and ignored the child for years. When the girl was to get married, the family asked her to go and apologise to the father for having ignored and not cared for him when she became successful, so that she can get his blessings. Yes, the family had chastised the father for having not cared for his daughter o, but the daughter was required to seek the father's forgiveness.


My sista, you made one statement - if the allegation were true. Till now, we do not have proof that the allegation is indeed true. All we have are speculations. Only those who were involved (i.e. Moji, OBJ, Alex O etc.) know and can testify to the real truth.

But if the allegation were found to be true at the end of the day, then like you rightly said, I do not expect Gbenga to apologise to his father. It should be the other way round, if it were in another culture.

You also stated: "However in Yoruba culture as far as I know, an elder is not required to seek forgiveness for offending his/her junior, he/she is required to se atunse (make amends) but not apologise, instead the junior is asked to." Yes, I do understand what you mean.

But I believe if one looks carefully between the lines, it is because the Yoruba culture upholds the dignity of the human being. Let me explain what I mean. The elder like I said before, is thoroughly chastised by his peers or given a tongue-lashing by those older than him, when he is found to have erred. But it is not done in the presence of the younger one, in order to prevent the younger one from feeling superior, having the upper hand, losing respect for the elder one, disrespecting his views or rubbing it in, as the Americans would say. The lady who was asked to apologise to her father was probably asked to do so, as a psychological tactic. It was an attempt to disarm her father, and make him feel ashamed of his misdeeds. Any right-thinking person, would see that the daughter was not at fault, and the father too would know this. the apology was offered as a sop to break the ice. If the dad had any grace, he would feel such an enormous sense of shame, that he would then turn around and shower her with gifts, blessings or support in order to make up for the lost years.

The elder is reminded of his responsibility as an older person, to be tolerant, to conduct himself with respect and dignity in order to ensure that he doesn't lose the respect he has earned previously from the younger one, due to his conduct. (Ever heard of the proverb: Agba ma n'gba ni, meaning the elder one always tolerates all things). He is also required to make amends for any wrong-doing, or to offer restitution to the younger one. Offering an apology is often left to the discretion of the elder. Any right-thinking elder without being prompted, would offer one. But in most cases, being asked to make restitution or offer ammends has already labelled him as guilty of the offence, and the younger one knows this quite well. In some cases, that knowledge serves as a measure of comfort to him, or reinforces his senses that justice has been served.



Vaya, have you ever seen in Yorubaland were an elder is asked to apologise to a younger one for offending him/her? It doesn't happen - except in modern homes- no matter the gravity of the offence, the younger one is expected to bear it. And that is one aspect of Yoruba culture I don't like, another is, wan ki sope agalagba pa ero (they don't say an elder lies) what the ......., even when they know the agbalaga (the elder) has put down one 100 ton lie!!

I don't believe Mrs. Obasanjo is playing the ostrich here, from what I know the woman has not even responded. You suggests she should have called the DIL and question her, do you know if she has or has not? do we know if Moji even respects her MIL enough to answer such summons? or if she has totally ignored all entreaties to resolve this issue? we don't know yet, however for some to suggest that the woman has failed as a mother because her children have been unfortunate enough not to have successful marriages, is in my opinion insensitive. What about the man? Did Mrs. O have these children on her own? Anyway, they say a successful child is the father's whilst the unsuccessful child is the mothers.


No, I haven't seen where an elder has been asked to apologise to a younger person, for having offended him. But I have seen where an elder out of his own personal volition, has offered an apology for an offence he committed. It did not diminish the respect I had for him, rather, it enhanced it.

In many cases, it is not just what an elder says that counts, but what he does at the end of the day. To some people, it is possible to offer an apology and that apology turns out to be virtually meaningless. Like someone once said: Pele, o l'ako, o l'abo. It means there two types of an apology - a good, genuine one and a false one.

Coming back to Moji's issue, like you rightly said we do not know if Mrs. Obasanjo has called Moji to hear her side of the story or not, neither do we know if Moji respects her MIL enough in order to answer her summons or follow her instructions. I merely offered a suggestion as to what Mrs. O could do, if she hadn't done it yet. I would be the last to suggest that she should be blamed for Gbenga's misdemeanour or OBJ's antics. She has done her best as a single mother. No one should lay more burdens on her. Her kids are adults. The best she can do right now, is to support them with prayers and good counsel.

Kenn
Jan 19, 2008, 06:51 PM
People,

I vaguely recall that at the time of the Gbenga interview with Sowore, I read somewhere that Gbenga isn't the first son of Obasanjo. I was going to mention this when WaleAkin claimed that Gbenga is a Dawodu. But since I wasn't so sure, I made a mental note to verify this later. Now, I've just read something written on the issue by Dele Momodu (someone that obviously knows the families involved very well) and he mentioned that Gbenga is the second son, the first being Olusegun Obasanjo jr. Does anyone have any corroborating information about this? I also remember reading something about one of Obasanjo's sons with Microsoft (or at least being a computer expert), can anyone remember his name?

fatimah
Jan 20, 2008, 11:30 AM
who cares?

Polo
Jan 20, 2008, 02:37 PM
who cares?

Why the attitude?

hopenjoy
Jan 20, 2008, 03:23 PM
GBENGA OBASANJO VOWS TO EXPOSE MORE


The recent leakage of an affidavit submitted in the lingering divorce litigation between son of former Nigerian President, Dr. Gbenga Obasanjo and his estranged wife, Mrs. Mojisola Obasanjo, (nee Onabanjo) may soon snowball into startling revelations on how several powerful and rich individuals have been using incest as a form of ritual to get rich.
Mojisola is also seeking a monthly payment of N300,000 for the period of 15 years till the children attain adulthood.
A source close to the Obasanjo Family disclosed to pointblanknews.com earlier in the week that Dr. Obasanjo was spotted at a meeting with the Alake of Egbaland, Oba Michael Adedotun Aremu Gbadebo, where he expressed his disappointment, sorrow and personal grief on the incestuous conduct of ex-president Olusegun Obasanjo and his father-in-law, Chief Alex Onabanjo.
The source who prefer to be anonymous in order not to be seen as giving out sensitive family secrets of the Obasanjo family said that the meeting between Gbenga and Oba Gbadebo afforded the embattled first son of Obasanjo to lay his grouse against Obasanjo and father-in-law, Chief Alex Onabanjo who was also accused of having had canal knowledge of his daughter, Mojisola.
The source said that Gbenga who has now drawn a battle line, vowed to the Alake that Nigerians are in for more "horrific shockers" on a non-specific deal between Obasanjo and his famous first daughter, Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello and some of the female Ministers and Special Advisers during his regime as President of Nigeria.
The source further said that Gbenga was extremely upset that he told Oba Gbadebo that his father, General Obasanjo is "the most diabolical and fetish character in Nigeria and it is high time he is exposed."

Gbenga Obasanjo
Gbenga was said to have told the Egba paramount ruler that Obasanjo was not alone in having mind disturbing sexual escapades with ladies with close family ties that other powerful and influential Nigerians have been engaging in similar incestuous act for purposes of rituals popular called "Awure" in Yoruba Land.
Investigations revealed that Gbenga's father-in-law, Chief Onabanjo had allegedly, for reasons of the so called Awure Rituals and the need to perpetuate his lineage, once had an adulterous relationship with the wife of a Guardian newspapers employee. The Guardian employee, Mr. Ganiyu Odusanya who works as an Advert Executive was said to have lost his one beloved wife to Chief Onabanjo who used the conjugal relationship to father his first and only Son. The fruit of that adulterous and ritualistic act is now a high school student. Chief Onabanjo and Ganiyu Odusanya are both indigenes of Ago-Iwoye in Ogun State. Prior to having the male child with Mr. Ganiyu Odusanya's wife, Alex Onabanjo, whose Norwegian company, PGS is facing serious financial difficulties only had females.
Gbenga was said to have told Oba Gbadebo that Nigerians would be disappointed to know the other masquerading so called important personalities having ritual sex and incest, the same clique to which Obasanjo unfortunately belong. Meanwhile several Nigerians have written to Editors of pointblanknews.com asking spiritual authorities in the country to investigate and determine the supernatural implications of Obasanjo's alleged incestuous and other adulterous relationships on the intractable economic, social and political crises in the country.
Source: http://pointblanknews.com/

elgaxton
Jan 21, 2008, 09:00 AM
Hi, Elgaxton!

Please note very well: "Oko" is NOT the same thing as "Blokos". If I go need to correct yoo for Brokin, wetin I dey say be sey, "piriki" and "blokos" no be de same t'ing.

Even if yoo take bazooka blow 'ihm blokos, but still yet, 'ihm piriki still remainder, 'ihm go continyu to dey nack ya wife per second, per second! {I t'ink yoo know?}

I beg, go register for School of Brokin Neuro-for Linguistics, Ile Ogbon University of Hard Knocks, kia-kia.


Muchas gracias.

Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)


Oga Abraxas,

Thanks for expatiating the thing for me o:razz:

naijaman2
Jan 21, 2008, 10:57 AM
what I don't understand is why this should even be debated ...anyway thank God say my Papa don go the great beyond ...

dem
Jan 21, 2008, 03:21 PM
what I don't understand is why this should even be debated ...anyway thank God say my Papa don go the great beyond ...

I bet he is is very proud of you for that thought up there...

elgaxton
Jan 21, 2008, 03:39 PM
what I don't understand is why this should even be debated ...anyway thank God say my Papa don go the great beyond ...

NaijaMan{JJC}

welcome o... How far na? Abeg used style just slide go Intro section go collect ya visa:) so

that the JJC tag go fall off o.

I hail

IZONERE
Jan 21, 2008, 07:53 PM
Meanwhile several Nigerians have written to Editors of pointblanknews.com asking spiritual authorities in the country to investigate and determine the supernatural implications of Obasanjo's alleged incestuous and other adulterous relationships on the intractable economic, social and political crises in the country.



:D:D:D:lol::lol::lol::D:D:D:lol::lol::lol:

Sincere Brillow
Jan 22, 2008, 10:56 AM
Lizmoses:

Hello.

Please, please can you please translate so that everyone reading understands what you have written in Yoruba? Thanks a million.

Soul Sista a/k/a Soul Sizzling


Soul Sista,Mulan,Bebi,


I hope this will help you in understanding lizmoses' grandiyoruba whatever whatever.....


E wa wo omo a ko ni si'ta bi omo ojo mejo yi o( Come and look at this child who exposes someone similar to a child who is to be christened.)
Omo alaigboran, (A disobedient child)
omo ako'gba yi. (A child who has refused to take morals)
Eleya, omo ti won fi nse nka osu danu. ( A useless child who ought to be used as a menstrual waste)
Alaini itelorun, ole oloju kokoro. ( Uncontented child.A Thief and greedy child)
Ba ti nge lowo, ni bo'ruka. (Stubborn Child)
Sebi o wo konko mo wipe ohun lo wun e, o fe fe, (Afterall you insisted that she is the one you love to marry)
sebi o mo wipe ta'ja t'eran ti ba lasepo ri abi o wadi ni? (Afterall you knew all tom dick and harry had slept with her or didn’t you find out?)
O kuku mo tele wipe baba re baba gbogbo aye ni. (And you know that your father is a father to all)
Ohun to fe gba lowo e loje o mu omo yen lo ba.( what you want to collect made you take the girl to him)
E nse o dun mo yin nigba ti e fe gba gbogbo ohun ti e gba, oju e wa ja nisiyi o wa npolongo enu. (You were enjoying it when you wanted to collect what you wanted,now you have woken up to reality and you are now shouting at the roof top.)

O ba mo o ba ma ti se o, (if you had known,you wouldn’t have done it.)
tori eyi t'o se yi lo nje ohun. (This very one you have done is the height)
Adabi ko'mo inu e mase iru fun e ni o. (You cant escape you child doing same for you.)

A bi ibo la wa fe ru gba bayi, (or How do we go about this now?)
o ma ma ti fe ba aye ara e lai nse temi je o. (He wants to spoil his life not my own)
Oloun ma sanu o!(God have mercy)

Kindest Regards.

Oluwato
Jan 23, 2008, 07:01 AM
GBENGA OBASANJO VOWS TO EXPOSE MORE


The recent leakage of an affidavit submitted in the lingering divorce litigation between son of former Nigerian President, Dr. Gbenga Obasanjo and his estranged wife, Mrs. Mojisola Obasanjo, (nee Onabanjo) may soon snowball into startling revelations on how several powerful and rich individuals have been using incest as a form of ritual to get rich.
Mojisola is also seeking a monthly payment of N300,000 for the period of 15 years till the children attain adulthood.
A source close to the Obasanjo Family disclosed to pointblanknews.com earlier in the week that Dr. Obasanjo was spotted at a meeting with the Alake of Egbaland, Oba Michael Adedotun Aremu Gbadebo, where he expressed his disappointment, sorrow and personal grief on the incestuous conduct of ex-president Olusegun Obasanjo and his father-in-law, Chief Alex Onabanjo.
The source who prefer to be anonymous in order not to be seen as giving out sensitive family secrets of the Obasanjo family said that the meeting between Gbenga and Oba Gbadebo afforded the embattled first son of Obasanjo to lay his grouse against Obasanjo and father-in-law, Chief Alex Onabanjo who was also accused of having had canal knowledge of his daughter, Mojisola.
The source said that Gbenga who has now drawn a battle line, vowed to the Alake that Nigerians are in for more "horrific shockers" on a non-specific deal between Obasanjo and his famous first daughter, Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello and some of the female Ministers and Special Advisers during his regime as President of Nigeria.
The source further said that Gbenga was extremely upset that he told Oba Gbadebo that his father, General Obasanjo is "the most diabolical and fetish character in Nigeria and it is high time he is exposed."

Gbenga Obasanjo
Gbenga was said to have told the Egba paramount ruler that Obasanjo was not alone in having mind disturbing sexual escapades with ladies with close family ties that other powerful and influential Nigerians have been engaging in similar incestuous act for purposes of rituals popular called "Awure" in Yoruba Land.
Investigations revealed that Gbenga's father-in-law, Chief Onabanjo had allegedly, for reasons of the so called Awure Rituals and the need to perpetuate his lineage, once had an adulterous relationship with the wife of a Guardian newspapers employee. The Guardian employee, Mr. Ganiyu Odusanya who works as an Advert Executive was said to have lost his one beloved wife to Chief Onabanjo who used the conjugal relationship to father his first and only Son. The fruit of that adulterous and ritualistic act is now a high school student. Chief Onabanjo and Ganiyu Odusanya are both indigenes of Ago-Iwoye in Ogun State. Prior to having the male child with Mr. Ganiyu Odusanya's wife, Alex Onabanjo, whose Norwegian company, PGS is facing serious financial difficulties only had females.
Gbenga was said to have told Oba Gbadebo that Nigerians would be disappointed to know the other masquerading so called important personalities having ritual sex and incest, the same clique to which Obasanjo unfortunately belong. Meanwhile several Nigerians have written to Editors of pointblanknews.com asking spiritual authorities in the country to investigate and determine the supernatural implications of Obasanjo's alleged incestuous and other adulterous relationships on the intractable economic, social and political crises in the country.
Source: http://pointblanknews.com/

This is another twist in the story. So the allegation is not 'pleasurable adultery' as we once thought but "ritualistic awure". It's beginning to look like a Yoruba home movie.

dem
Jan 23, 2008, 08:37 AM
Soul Sista,Mulan,Bebi,


I hope this will help you in understanding lizmoses' grandiyoruba whatever whatever.....


E wa wo omo a ko ni si'ta bi omo ojo mejo yi o( Come and look at this child who exposes someone similar to a child who is to be christened.)
Omo alaigboran, (A disobedient child)
omo ako'gba yi. (A child who has refused to take morals)
Eleya, omo ti won fi nse nka osu danu. ( A useless child who ought to be used as a menstrual waste)
Alaini itelorun, ole oloju kokoro. ( Uncontented child.A Thief and greedy child)
Ba ti nge lowo, ni bo'ruka. (Stubborn Child)
Sebi o wo konko mo wipe ohun lo wun e, o fe fe, (Afterall you insisted that she is the one you love to marry)
sebi o mo wipe ta'ja t'eran ti ba lasepo ri abi o wadi ni? (Afterall you knew all tom dick and harry had slept with her or didn’t you find out?)
O kuku mo tele wipe baba re baba gbogbo aye ni. (And you know that your father is a father to all)
Ohun to fe gba lowo e loje o mu omo yen lo ba.( what you want to collect made you take the girl to him)
E nse o dun mo yin nigba ti e fe gba gbogbo ohun ti e gba, oju e wa ja nisiyi o wa npolongo enu. (You were enjoying it when you wanted to collect what you wanted,now you have woken up to reality and you are now shouting at the roof top.)

O ba mo o ba ma ti se o, (if you had known,you wouldn’t have done it.)
tori eyi t'o se yi lo nje ohun. (This very one you have done is the height)
Adabi ko'mo inu e mase iru fun e ni o. (You cant escape you child doing same for you.)

A bi ibo la wa fe ru gba bayi, (or How do we go about this now?)
o ma ma ti fe ba aye ara e lai nse temi je o. (He wants to spoil his life not my own)
Oloun ma sanu o!(God have mercy)

Kindest Regards.

Was that really from Lizmoses??? Damn:exclaim:

DIDAM
Jan 29, 2008, 10:57 AM
i want to say these to those who says gbenga is stupid for what he did.
you see, he just can beleive his father who is his old man have a sex with his wife who is his property alone.they most have goodtmes together since from smll age.and after grown he most have known the effort his father have done to sustain the house.
but in these case all of thwt is forgeting.so fuuck obj b,cos i know is capable of doing it.

DIDAM
Jan 29, 2008, 11:01 AM
he is nothing but old fool.i beleive he slept with former minsters,and advisers,and his female party contepate.obj is like a living demon,who want what he needs any how.

Abraxas
Jan 29, 2008, 04:33 PM
he is nothing but old fool.i beleive he slept with former minsters,and advisers,and his female party contepate.obj is like a living demon,who want what he needs any how.

Hi, Didan (JJC)!

Please, accept my cordial invitation, in my capacity as the Welcomer-in-Chief of all JJCs (wherever they may be), to the Village High Commission, located at the Village Twin TowersComplex, by the Main Square, to VOLUNTARILY introduce yourself to the law-abiding good people of our very beloved Village of origin (of no regret).

From all indications, you require a thorough brush-up, and fundamental re-configuration of your reality, including some injection of a massive dose of paradigm shifts, to make you NVS-compliant, in line with due process and the rule of law, with maximum dispatch.

Thank you for your rapt attention to our first and final indication of slight displeasure
with your socio-dynamic inter-personal modus operandi.

Muchas gracias.

Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)
Welcomer-in-Chief of all NVS-compliant JJCs in this and other worlds.

IZONERE
Jan 29, 2008, 04:44 PM
Hi, Didan (JJC)!

Please, accept my cordial invitation, in my capacity as the Welcomer-in-Chief of all JJCs (wherever they may be), to the Village High Commission, located at the Village Twin TowersComplex, by the Main Square, to VOLUNTARILY introduce yourself to the law-abiding good people of our very beloved Village of origin (of no regret).

From all indications, you require a thorough brush-up, and fundamental re-configuration of your reality, including some injection of a massive dose of paradigm shifts, to make you NVS-compliant, in line with due process and the rule of law, with maximum dispatch.




Please add a spell checker to that list.

WaleAkin
Jan 29, 2008, 05:05 PM
Please add a spell checker to that list.
LOL!
U peeps sef on this NVS

elgaxton
Feb 4, 2008, 04:38 PM
Please add a spell checker to that list.

This Babe u no go kill person o kai...

U and ur One-liner messages, I kpadu ur style sha

Obariba
Feb 5, 2008, 02:52 AM
i want to say these to those who says gbenga is stupid for what he did.
you see, he just can beleive his father who is his old man have a sex with his wife who is his property alone.they most have goodtmes together since from smll age.and after grown he most have known the effort his father have done to sustain the house.
but in these case all of thwt is forgeting.so fuuck obj b,cos i know is capable of doing it.

wonDIAfuLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!:D