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View Full Version : Disgracing your father in public: A critical look at Gbenga Obasanjo's outburst



WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 01:09 PM
Hi All,

I hereby challenge anyone to come on board here to slug it out on the above subject.

I shall be writing in this clash of the titan on the following reasons:

1. A look at the patriach called Chief Aremu Olusegun Obasanjo
2. An introspection into the Obasanjo family with special emphasis on the Owu clan
3. The Man named Gbenga Obasanjo, his life and family!
4. The African-Yoruba culture bordering on parental respect.
5. Why i am of the opinion that Gbenga goofed heavily.
6. The lady called Mojisola Obasanjo
7. The fate of Wuraola and Boluwatife Obasanjo- The children of "unknown" paternity
8 "In-Marriage secrets"- Let it remain secrets no matter what!
9. Juxtaposing and dissecting the pivotal differences between the African culture and the westernization of our psychological well-being
10. The way forward- Casting blames, etal.

I would also want an unbiased moderator as this will be a highly sensitive debate!

I am also open to have co-debater(s) on my side.

I eagerly await a response.

Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 01:22 PM
Carry On old soldier. Am in the ring- shoot!

(A defender of cultural dynamism and progressive mindedness)

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 01:56 PM
Wale Akin, have you made your points or you want to expantiate before I start destroying them? (speaking in typical Nigerian fashion) I will prefer you expand on them, so I dont jump to conclusions and open myself up to friendly fire :D In the absence of which, I will assume all my assumptions are correct and you lose the right to amend your position.

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 02:03 PM
Wale Akin, have you made your points or you want to expantiate before I start destroying them? (speaking in typical Nigerian fashion) I will prefer you expand on them, so I dont jump to conclusions and open myself up to friendly fire :D In the absence of which, I will assume all my assumptions are correct and you lose the right to amend your position.

Busanga,
We cant proceed without a Moderator as instructed by SLB. Lets wait a few minutes pls. I have the next 3 hours free today and aptly prepared for this debate!

Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Tola Odejayi
Jan 15, 2008, 03:10 PM
Hi WaleAkin,

A couple of points:

I'm available to moderate if you don't get any response from Celticologist, EeezeeBee or Abraxas. You may need to PM these guys if you want a faster response;

Are you clear on who you are debating against, i.e. who the Opponent is? It sounds like you want to debate against Busanga, but I'm not sure. Or do you want to take on all comers at once? It's not impossible, but it puts you at a disadvantage. :D

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 03:39 PM
I have only met Chief Olusegun Obasanjo twice at close range, first in 1978 at First Baptist Church Lagos where he had come to worship with President Jimmy Carter and secondly when he drove into a filing station at Ishaga Road, Ojuelegba, Lagos in a Volkswagen car in 1987. Apart from these two sightings, i dont have any relationship with him at all.

Nigerians have a funny behaviour that i dont really like and that is the fact that we tend to judge alot without taking adequate caution and/or critical look on factors bordering on these warped judgements. I'd like to state that we have heard on countless occassions that Chief Olusegun Obasanjo punishes his members of staff caught stealing hatched eggs and day old chicks at the Obasanjo Farm but how many Nigerians considered doing a thorough check to verify these accusations? Its worthy for the purpose of this debate to point out that no such man-handled staff who were allegedly beaten with horsewhip came out to state such.

We even heard that he impregnated a 18-year old girl in 2004, this is still to be verified and confirmed as true. Rumour mongers were also quick to say he had a fling with the likes of Mrs Remi Oyo, his Special Assistant, Dr Ngozi Iweala, his former Minister of finance and Dr Oby Ezekwesili, former Education minister, all these ladies in his 8 years as President- Now how many of these are true pls?

Ms Chris Anyanwu, a popular journalist once spent an impromptu 24 hrs with him then as President and the details showed on TV, this gave Nigerians a deep insight into the daily life of our President as thoroughly busy moving from one meeting into another. In his particular TV programme, he changed clothing 7 times and was up the next morning at 5AM for the morning devotion conducted by Prof Yusuf Obaje, the Provost of the Baptist Theological Seminary, Ogbomosho and Chaplain, Aso Rock.

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is a polygamist- A personal choice and we have to respect this aspect of his life. Lets give it to him, he has excelled in the positive and educational traininig of his children- Lets mention a few of them- Dr Iyabo Bello-Obasanjo is a Medical Doctor, Muyiwa Obasanjo is also a New York based Legal practitioner and Gbenga Obasanjo who holds an MBA. If we are to judge this old man by the educational achievements of these children, a typical Nigerian would say- He has tried, so where did he get it all wrong?

I sometimes wonder how some men could cope with 3,4,5,6 wives at a stretch without stress when to manage even 1 Wife, you need divine grace! We are only much able to judge him cos he's a public figure, most homes in Nigeria are on the verge of destruction cos there's no profound love and harmony, this was seen when he had that popular public altercation with his Wife and the dirty linen washed in full public glare- I look at him as an old Man who needs our prayers and support- We have seen evidences of his high temperament on national issues- The Ikeja bombings and Odi-Zaki biam military invasion.

I hereby submit to Busanga and Co that Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, former President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, a former Army General and Polygamist has excelled in the proper training of his children but this particular child named Gbenga is only being wayward.

I want to be associated with my Dad as the former President of Nigeria, i want to be associated with my Dad on the demise of one of his wives as a result of beauty enhancement even when all Nigerians abused our family, i want to be associated with my Dad and stick to him in all manner of Ups and Downs.

Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 04:07 PM
I will be back with a response in 2 hours. Thanks Wale for your succint submission. Watch this space.

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 04:11 PM
Olugbenga Obasanjo is the 1st male child of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo- Yorubas calls such a son Dawodu-simply meaning the 1st Child and Scion! A heavy responsibility lies on such children as they are regarded as the 2nd in command if per-adventure the Father travels or dies, he has the total responsibility to cater for the entire family including his own biological Mother- The Yoruba culture is so rich that some mothers call these 1st sons their Olowo ori- The one who has paid my dowry- This simply show the direct contact of such children with the breadwinner and Father of the house.

In this particular discourse, this heavy responsibility falls on Gbenga Obasanjo- He has the moral rights to lay good and positive examples for the likes of Muyiwa Obasanjo and co, his behavioural attitudes should be above board as a true representation of the father, even if the Father is bad- Gbenga being the Dawodu must make sure the rest of the family stays strong and united in purpose, no matter the extreme nature of the father, Gbenga has the utmost responsibility to keep the unity fire burning in the family.

He has not done this at all, i totally lost it when he granted that impromptu press interview to a total stranger-Omoyele Sowore in his own car when he picked up the stranded Sowore at the Seme border, Gbenga readily come across to me as what the Yorubas would call OMO-ALE, for God's sake, no matter the negative attitudes of this man, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo remain the vehicle of your birth- why rubbish his name in the public gallery?

Boluwatife Obasanjo is the 5 year old son of Gbenga and Mojisola Obasanjo- I still have vivid memories of this particular age in my life- Bolu will NEVER forgive Gbenga, he deserves no forgiveness anyway and Gbenga need to go make adequate family ammendments so that the future of this boy would not be mortgaged by his sacrilegious act!!

Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Tola Odejayi
Jan 15, 2008, 04:55 PM
Non-debating Villagers,

While we are waiting for Busanga to return, please be aware that it's all right for you to state who you support as you have been doing. You can even make posts that support their view. And you can ask questions of the Main Debaters (WaleAkin and Busanga) as you have been doing.

However, please note that only the Main Debaters will be allowed to respond to points made on the debate. For example, if Lizmoses makes a post, Pappilo won't be permitted to respond to that post on this thread. If he does, his post will be moved to a separate thread. If we don't do this, the debate will splinter into many little debates, it will lose focus and it will really no different from the usual threads that we have on the rest of the board.

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 04:58 PM
I was trained by both parents to prostrate flat when i greet them in the morning, returning from school in the afternoon and as neccesary. The traditional Yoruba tradition mandates all male children to do this as a form of respect and because the characters in this discourse are Yorubas, i shall limit my response to the Yoruba traditions.

I picked up my parents at Heathrow Airport this past summer and upon sighting them , prostrated flat in the full glare of everyone- I will NEVER allow my sojourn in the UK to becloud the good Nigerian trainings i was tutored, my Father responded by placing his RIGHT hand on my head and prayed vigorously in concentrated Ondo dialect!!

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo according to reports is known to be a strict Father and disciplinarian- even if we dont have the proofs, his military background says alot and i so sure he must have tutored Gbenga so well most especially since he is the 1st Male child. Parental respect is of high importance and they must be accorded no matter what!!

If Gbenga Obasanjo has this inbuilt and highly precious respect as highlighted above, he will not have the boldness to come forth and embarass his biological father- What is the job of the ELDERS- Nelson Mandela saw the need to gather elders of the Africa together so that the future of the African child can be guaranteed, he formed the ELDERSFORUM (http://http://www.theelders.org/). The elders are there to mediate, help us out when stuck, proffer lasting solutions to our problem- I refer to them as the BALM of GILEAD!

Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is the Balogun of Owu- this chieftancy affords Gbenga to have a relationship with the Oba and his councils of Elders in preparation for him as the Balogun when his Father die, I am of the opinion that he should have sought audience with the Oba, report these indecent acts with sound proofs, allow the elders to mediate. Gbenga has done 3 things here by NOT reporting his father to the elders-
He has rubbished his family name
He has rubbished the Owu Dynasty
He has rubbished the Yoruba heritage of OMOLUABI

Speaking about my own biological Father- He is a strict no nonsense Man but he has this soft spot for his Immediate younger Brother, so when we have a lingering family issue where he is not ready to listen to us, we seek the face of this our loving Uncle and the case is closed! Gbenga as the Scion of the Obasanjo should have known someone in the family who has the heart of Obasanjo- why not report him to that person- All reasonable avenues MUST be expended.

I hereby submit to Busanga and co that Olugbenga Obasanjo lack the basic respects accorded to one's parents hence this undignified move.

Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Villagers,
Kindly follow my initial bullet points pls..................I am taking it one by each.

Thanks

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 05:31 PM
I use this opportunity welcome you all to this important debate. My sincere thanks goes to the moderator of the event, the NVS administrators and organizers, and fellow villagers who have taken time out of their hard pressed schedule to participate in this. I also extend my thanks to my co-debater – Mr. Wale Akin, your affability is undeniable. However, may I also use the same opportunity to express my dismay at the emotional turn of your submission. I have flipped, sliced and diced your comments and have found no substantive submission rooted in fact. The fictional turn is regrettable and I apologize on your behalf to fellow villagers. Our mandate and my intention is to keep this debate rooted in facts and facts only. This I will attempt doing in the succeeding paragraphs.

First, what I read is a bunch of concocted cock and bull stories, that you wish we believe to be the stereotypical mindset of a typical Nigerian. I refuse to be painted by that brush. I for one have not heard 60% of the stories you believe to be making rounds on Mr. Obasanjo, let alone believing them. Does that make me any less Nigerian? I refuse to buy into your notion that we Nigerians rush to judgment (which by itself is a rush to judgment on your part), in as much as I also refuse to be drawn into your argument on whether Mr. Obasanjo is a good or bad parent. That judgment I will leave to the discerning public, whom I believe have contravening and supporting facts in public domain supporting or dismantling the points you made regarding this, and should be left alone to make this call. This however falls outside the purview of this discourse.

My assertions relating to the theme of this debate is as follows:

a. That Gbenga Obasanjo is well within his legal, marital and cultural rights as a husband, son, citizen of Federal Republic of Nigeria and human being of ethnic origins in the Western Yoruba Region of Nigeria, to expose inappropriate relationship between his father and wife as part of divorce proceedings in any court within the federation.
b. That Sun News as responsible press people, are well within their right to report such assertions made in these court proceedings to the public, for information purposes (only as allegations) – to inform and educate the public on the private conduct of past, present or future public officers of interest in the interest of probity, transparency and openness.
c. That the public is free to make up their minds, as jurors in the court of public opinion on such public officers as they deem fit, perhaps based on precedence of action, believability of accuser and credibility of the press. Indeed, the court of public opinion being one of two courts in our society (the other being the Law Courts) is by no means perfect, but has its norms and standards –which public officers, by virtue of their standing and calling, have subscribed to and should seek or get no waiver thereof.


These are my ascertions friend, and if you agree with me, cut your loses and
See Beckham vs. News of the World , New York Times vs Sullivan , and other country standards for Libel against public officers and celebrities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel#United_States_law

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 05:46 PM
Mrs Mojisola Obasanjo-It is known in the Yoruba tradition that the marriage title Mrs added to a lady's name once she is married should be treated with respect at all times. The popular saying that "He who finds a Wife, has found a good thing" rings in my head each time i am opportuned to attend a wedding ceremony. What must have led her to commit this indecent act with her FIL?

1. Is she a flirt?

2. Is she morally bankrupt?

3. Is she cursed? ( I dont believe in this point but it must be addressed as it aptly borders on the Yoruba tradition)

4. Is she lonely and sex starved by Gbenga- her legal husband?

5. Has Gbenga done something wrong to her in the past and now uses this sleeping with her FIL to really spite him

6. Did Gbenga courted her personally or it was an arranged marriage by both Chiefs Onabanjo and Obasanjo?

7. Was she hypnotised/blue-toothed/voodooed by Obasanjo

All these and many more are intricate questions that we must answer to get a good grasp of this discourse!

She definitely knows that sleeping with her FIL is a no-go area- even if she is sexually pressed and cant hold it any longer- FIL is not the right choice. Whatever her religion-Is she devouted?

I leave Busanga and co with this popular hymn:

God give us Christian Homes
Homes where the bible is loved and taught
Homes where the Master's will is sought
Homes filled with His love and thoughts
God gives us Christian homes/2x

The Wife, be you a Christian, Muslim whatever has the utmost responsibility to hold the family together in prayer- I submit that Mrs Mojisola Obasanjo lacks this grace.

Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Caveat:
We are debating based on the facts we have on board.

Tola Odejayi
Jan 15, 2008, 05:51 PM
Refocusing the debate...

Wale Akin, just to confirm, your central point is that Gbenga Obasanjo is wrong to make public the allegations he has made about his father, Olusegun Obasanjo - am I correct in this? Please confirm.

And Busanga, your position is that he is right to do so, correct? Please confirm so that both of you are sure what you are debating.

This is just to make things clearer for those who may not have deduced this from your initial submission. I would suggest that for future debaters, they make their central point stand out very clearly in one line so that there's no confusion.



Also Wale Akin, referring to your first post, you can have supporters in this debate - but you can't have co-debaters. You have to stand on your own, otherwise the debate could end up being very entangled.

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 06:02 PM
Refocusing the debate...

Wale Akin, just to confirm, your central point is that Gbenga Obasanjo is wrong to make public the allegations he has made about his father, Olusegun Obasanjo - am I correct in this? Please confirm.

And Busanga, your position is that he is right to do so, correct? Please confirm so that both of you are sure what you are debating.

This is just to make things clearer for those who may not have deduced this from your initial submission. I would suggest that for future debaters, they make their central point stand out very clearly in one line so that there's no confusion.



Also Wale Akin, referring to your first post, you can have supporters in this debate - but you can't have co-debaters. You have to stand on your own, otherwise the debate could end up being very entangled.

Correct sir. Right now, I think Wale is arguing with himself. :D

Wale, there is nothing grasp, but what you intend to debate. I wait for your to concur on what your points are. I have made mine- disagree or agree. Which one?

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 06:10 PM
Refocusing the debate...

Wale Akin, just to confirm, your central point is that Gbenga Obasanjo is wrong to make public the allegations he has made about his father, Olusegun Obasanjo - am I correct in this? Please confirm.

And Busanga, your position is that he is right to do so, correct? Please confirm so that both of you are sure what you are debating.

This is just to make things clearer for those who may not have deduced this from your initial submission. I would suggest that for future debaters, they make their central point stand out very clearly in one line so that there's no confusion.



Also Wale Akin, referring to your first post, you can have supporters in this debate - but you can't have co-debaters. You have to stand on your own, otherwise the debate could end up being very entangled.

SLB,

YES!

I gave the initial bullet points to set the order on my part- my critical look is yet to be submitted- I need to buttress my points.

I think Busanga has violated the rule(s) by drumming an unwarranted support in his 1st submission.

I'd suggest that we bring in our points from whatever directions as initially submitted by Lizmoses- My main angle is purely TRADITIONAL.

Cheers Moderator

Notes,
BRB in 3 hrs pls

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 06:18 PM
SLB,

YES!

I gave the initial bullet points to set the order on my part- my critical look is yet to be submitted- I need to buttress my points.

I think Busanga has violated the rule(s) by drumming an unwarranted support in his 1st submission.

I's suggest that we bring in our points from whatever directions as initially submitted by Lizmoses- My main angle is purely TRADITIONAL.

Cheers Moderator

Notes,
BRB in 3 hrs pls

We are waiting for your points, cos right now it is lost on everyone of us. In any case, I think if you allege you will at least substantiate. Where were the rules violated?

Tola Odejayi
Jan 15, 2008, 06:22 PM
Wale Akin,

I think that Busanga has made his points in #36.

Basically he is saying that it is all right for Gbenga Obasanjo to make the allegations, and for any newspaper to report them so that people can make their minds up on the matter.

It doesn't sound like your post #37 is a response to this. So when you return, we await your response to Busanga's post. Basically, you need to let us know why you don't think that it is right for Gbenga to make these allegations public. If you have already explained why, then you need to refer Busanga to the specific post in which you did so, and he can take it from there.

Cheers,

Shoko

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 06:47 PM
SLB (Our highly esteemed Moderator),

I have made the following submissions for now and expect that Busanga read through my responses pls. For clarity sake, i reproduce them again-


I want to be associated with my Dad as the former President of Nigeria, i want to be associated with my Dad on the demise of one of his wives as a result of beauty enhancement even when all Nigerians abused our family, i want to be associated with my Dad and stick to him in all manner of Ups and Downs.


Olugbenga Obasanjo is the 1st male child of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo- Yorubas calls such a son Dawodu-simply meaning the 1st Child and Scion! A heavy responsibility lies on such children as they are regarded as the 2nd in command if per-adventure the Father travels or dies, he has the total responsibility to cater for the entire family including his own biological Mother- The Yoruba culture is so rich that some mothers call these 1st sons their Olowo ori- The one who has paid my dowry- This simply show the direct contact of such children with the breadwinner and Father of the house.


for God's sake, no matter the negative attitudes of this man, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo remain the vehicle of your birth- why rubbish his name in the public gallery?


If Gbenga Obasanjo has this inbuilt and highly precious respect as highlighted above, he will not have the boldness to come forth and embarass his biological father- What is the job of the ELDERS- Nelson Mandela saw the need to gather elders of the Africa together so that the future of the African child can be guaranteed, he formed the ELDERSFORUM. The elders are there to mediate, help us out when stuck, proffer lasting solutions to our problem- I refer to them as the BALM of GILEAD!


Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is the Balogun of Owu- this chieftancy affords Gbenga to have a relationship with the Oba and his councils of Elders in preparation for him as the Balogun when his Father die, I am of the opinion that he should have sought audience with the Oba, report these indecent acts with sound proofs, allow the elders to mediate. Gbenga has done 3 things here by NOT reporting his father to the elders-
He has rubbished his family name
He has rubbished the Owu Dynasty
He has rubbished the Yoruba heritage of OMOLUABI


Gbenga as the Scion of the Obasanjo should have known someone in the family who has the heart of Obasanjo- why not report him to that person- All reasonable avenues MUST be expended.

I hereby submit to Busanga and co that Olugbenga Obasanjo lack the basic respects accorded to one's parents hence this undignified move.


Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Notes,
BRB as earlier indicated pls.

busanga
Jan 15, 2008, 07:01 PM
See Responses Below

I want to be associated with my Dad as the former President of Nigeria, i want to be associated with my Dad on the demise of one of his wives as a result of beauty enhancement even when all Nigerians abused our family, i want to be associated with my Dad and stick to him in all manner of Ups and Downs.
Gbenga is by no means you. Your desires do not in any way approximate to the desire of Gbenga Obasanjo.


Olugbenga Obasanjo is the 1st male child of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo- Yorubas calls such a son Dawodu-simply meaning the 1st Child and Scion! A heavy responsibility lies on such children as they are regarded as the 2nd in command if per-adventure the Father travels or dies, he has the total responsibility to cater for the entire family including his own biological Mother- The Yoruba culture is so rich that some mothers call these 1st sons their Olowo ori- The one who has paid my dowry- This simply show the direct contact of such children with the breadwinner and Father of the house.
If anything, the same Yoruba culture also place the responsibility of protecting his siblings for misdeeds in or out of the family by anyone including his father on the first born. In my opinion, as dawodu he is doing a downright good job of exposing evil and in some ways protecting his younger ones.


for God's sake, no matter the negative attitudes of this man, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo remain the vehicle of your birth- why rubbish his name in the public gallery?
First, you will have to prove that Olusegun Obasanjo has a name to protect. I mean you cant rubbish, what has been already rubbished. How can you kill a corpse?


If Gbenga Obasanjo has this inbuilt and highly precious respect as highlighted above, he will not have the boldness to come forth and embarass his biological father- What is the job of the ELDERS- Nelson Mandela saw the need to gather elders of the Africa together so that the future of the African child can be guaranteed, he formed the ELDERSFORUM. The elders are there to mediate, help us out when stuck, proffer lasting solutions to our problem- I refer to them as the BALM of GILEAD!
You speak of respect as if it is a one way street and some kind of absolute. Respect, even in Yoruba culture must be earned and protected. When elders do what approximates them to court jesters, it behooves on younger ones to point it out to them. Agba gbon, omo de gbon- la fi da Ile Ife. Yoruba's as escapulated in the afore said proverb dont think age ascribe you impunity.


Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is the Balogun of Owu- this chieftancy affords Gbenga to have a relationship with the Oba and his councils of Elders in preparation for him as the Balogun when his Father die, I am of the opinion that he should have sought audience with the Oba, report these indecent acts with sound proofs, allow the elders to mediate. Gbenga has done 3 things here by NOT reporting his father to the elders-
He has rubbished his family name
He has rubbished the Owu Dynasty
He has rubbished the Yoruba heritage of OMOLUABI
For you to make these allegations, you first must prove that Gbenga have not reported this case to the Owu in council or to the Alake. May be even the dead Olowu know about it! We just dont have enough info and it will be absurd to have this discussion. However, in as much as there is omoluwabi, there is also Agbaya. Agbaya is an elder undeserving of respect and normal cultural ethos. One who sleeps with his DIL is definitely in that shameful category- at least in the mind of his accuser who can then throw caution to the wind and proceed as he wishes.


Gbenga as the Scion of the Obasanjo should have known someone in the family who has the heart of Obasanjo- why not report him to that person- All reasonable avenues MUST be expended.

I hereby submit to Busanga and co that Olugbenga Obasanjo lack the basic respects accorded to one's parents hence this undignified move.

Respect? Which respect? To the law, to his consience or to his fellow man? I respect nobody but God!

WaleAkin
Jan 15, 2008, 10:50 PM
Wuraola and Boluwatife Obasanjo-I have a strong pitiance for these children, i met one of the sons of the late Chief Okotie-Eboh at a gathering in 2006, he has changed his name to XYZ-ABC, the new name has no reflection of the compound name Okotie-Eboh and he has a strong reason. If we are not careful, these innocent children will live with this stigma for the rest of their lives, by the declaration of Gbenga Obasanjo, they have traditionally become bast.ards, they will henceforth be looked down upon at school, even if the paternity case is settled and Chief Obasanjo is declared the father- the case is more worsened!

We have a duty to protect our children, Gbenga is outrightly selfish in his quest to get his father nailed and buried, come to think about this: reports has it that he's being seperated from Mojisola since 2005, why wait such a long time before firing the legal shots? Do we have some latent factors not declared?

The name OBASANJO going by the allegations of Gbenga is in deep shi.t- many of the female Obasanjos will need to work extra to get good husbands- Many Nigerian parents will totally reject a marriage to the Obasanjo family- An Aunty-in-Law of mine disallowed her only daughter from a marrying a guy whose parents are divorced- It took the intervention of the whole family.

Chief Alex Onabanjo and Mojisola Obasanjo
Moji confided in Gbenga that her father slept with her as a teenager- I doff my hat for her on this declaration, if she truly did this- She must really LOVE Gbenga so much and i respect this. Couples share alot of secrets in their holy matrimonies and these secrets MUST forever remain classified info to be taken to the grave- I hereby submit that Gbenga is not matured to keep a woman under his roof.

I also condemn in strong terms if truly Chief Alex Onabanjo slept with his daughter, Mojisola- He should be tied to a stake and shot dead! How on earth would the nakedness of your own biological daughter be erotic and appealing to a sane father? I once again salute the courage of Moji to have the temerity to share such highly classified info with Gbenga- She's a lady in a million!You dont get the wife you want at an instant- What you get is the raw material to be moulded


a. That Gbenga Obasanjo is well within his legal, marital and cultural rights as a husband, son, citizen of Federal Republic of Nigeria and human being of ethnic origins in the Western Yoruba Region of Nigeria, to expose inappropriate relationship between his father and wife as part of divorce proceedings in any court within the federation.
Cut it off Busanga- This same absurd act propels our Nigerian ladies resident in the UK and/or US to call 999 at the slightest provocation to bring police officers to mediate in marital issues- I cant fathom the fact that a Gay Police officer or a divorcee or a single person would come into my house to mediate, how do we juxtapose this pls?


b. That Sun News as responsible press people, are well within their right to report such assertions made in these court proceedings to the public, for information purposes (only as allegations) – to inform and educate the public on the private conduct of past, present or future public officers of interest in the interest of probity, transparency and openness.
I am sick of this corrupt western life we tend to copy. When Bill Clinton had that fling with Monica, Hillary and Chelsea stood by him- These are the same people whose culture we are copying! Theres nothing like that entity called FAMILY. When David Beckham also had a fling with Rebecca Loos, Victoria brushed it aside and saved David- The children are more important than anything else!


c. That the public is free to make up their minds, as jurors in the court of public opinion on such public officers as they deem fit, perhaps based on precedence of action, believability of accuser and credibility of the press. Indeed, the court of public opinion being one of two courts in our society (the other being the Law Courts) is by no means perfect, but has its norms and standards –which public officers, by virtue of their standing and calling, have subscribed to and should seek or get no waiver thereof.
"He who hath no sin, let him/her cast the first stone". How many of you here on NVS not to talk about the entire Nigeria as a whole will embarass their fathers if caught in this act?

I conclude this part with this Yoruba phrase "Olorun a fun wa lomo ti o ma da'so ASIRI bo gbogbo wa ohhhh"- May the infinite God gives us all good children who will keep our secret info secret!


Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Tola Odejayi
Jan 15, 2008, 11:22 PM
Wale Akin,

In the debate, you're supposed to respond to the latest post of your opponent, not something they said a while ago. I notice that in your last post, you have responded the original post that Busanga made when he agreed to debate with you (#36) instead of responding to his latest post (#48). If you don't respond to the latest post, it becomes very confusing following the train of the debate.

If you wanted to respond to Busanga's original position, you should have done that in your very first response to him after he made that post. But that time has passed, and so we're waiting for a response to his latest post.

busanga
Jan 16, 2008, 02:06 AM
Welcome to the late party Mr. Wale, unfortunately you are one post behind. I do hope you will respond to my last rebuttal in the spirit of obedience to the moderator's directives. Until then, my hand is tied and I cannot respond to you lest I incur the wrath of the village.

I look forward to your quick response.

lizmoses
Jan 16, 2008, 04:02 AM
Oga Shoko,

Can you please clarify what you think is a 'post in support of argument' and that has the justification to remain on this particular thread.

It may be easier if we have only both lead debaters on this particular thread whilst all supporters use the other one you started.

This will help in being fairer so that one person does not feel all his own supporters are ousted to the other thread.

I no know if I yarn correct sha?

Tola Odejayi
Jan 16, 2008, 04:44 AM
LizMoses,

Originally, I had not wanted to exclude villagers from the debate. But I'm beginning to think that it may be proving to be too rowdy if everyone is allowed to pitch in.

So I will move all posts (except for Wale Akin's and Busanga's direct posts to each other) to the other thread where anyone can play. If Wale Akin and Busanga wish to reply posts on that thread, fine. But I will preserve the main thread for just the two of them (and the Moderator, of course. :) )

WaleAkin
Jan 16, 2008, 11:45 AM
Hello Busanga,


Gbenga is by no means you. Your desires do not in any way approximate to the desire of Gbenga Obasanjo.
Gbenga Obasanjo is not and can never be Wale Akin but we share a common heritage and thats the rich Yoruba tradition where it behoves any right thinking Omo Oduduwa to behave according to laid down principles and above all know that certain perimeters are no go areas NO MATTER WHAT!. One of these is TOTAL and UNDILUTED respect to our parents. Gbenga is not an OBUKO(He-Goat) meant to sleep with his father's wives or even his own Mother, even if the father has committed this unforgivable error, it's divine on his side to forgive!


If anything, the same Yoruba culture also place the responsibility of protecting his siblings for misdeeds in or out of the family by anyone including his father on the first born. In my opinion, as dawodu he is doing a downright good job of exposing evil and in some ways protecting his younger ones.
Yes, he is regarded as the Dawodu and must do things right at all times, i am totally against blowing the public trumpet, we have a million ways of settling this particular problem, public knowledge is totally UNYORUBA and by this i stand firmly..........NO SHAKING at all. Talking about his younger brothers, i bet and also believe that we will still have siblings who will die for their father even with this trumped up allegations. Gbenga Obasanjo has only succeeded in rubbishing his FAMILY name and as it had happened before, history will never be kind to him- Watch this space in 20-30 years time!!


First, you will have to prove that Olusegun Obasanjo has a name to protect. I mean you cant rubbish, what has been already rubbished. How can you kill a corpse?
I am shocked at this response- We are not talking about politics here, this borders on personal and family issues, when Stella Obasanjo died under that funny circumstance, Muyiwa being the only child buried her flamboyantly- For God's sake, she was his Mother, no matter what! When Diana Spencer-Wales died alongside her boyfriend in a Paris tunnel, Prince Charles travelled to bring her corpse home- For God's sake, she was the mother of his children, no matter what!

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo may not have performed creditably well in politics but theres a linear difference between this position and his role as a biological Father- The Cheriegate issue of 2003 when she as the wife of the Prime Minister of Britain was embroiled in a housing scam with a con-man now serving time in Australia, does that now make her a bad Mother to Euan and his siblings- I pray you to seperate politics from family affairs. Many of u who criticise political office holders so much can not stand a day job as a local Counsellor for their LGAs


You speak of respect as if it is a one way street and some kind of absolute. Respect, even in Yoruba culture must be earned and protected.
............Did you type this Busanga? Are u insinuating that our parents MUST earn our respect. My Father did not earn my respect, i gave and will continue to give it out to him and on this premise i stand and because i share the same Yoruba heritage- unless Gbenga is from another continent, then it behoves him as the Scion of Chief Aremu Okikiolakan Olusegun Obasanjo to give him that TOTAL respect even in the face of adversity!


When elders do what approximates them to court jesters, it behooves on younger ones to point it out to them. Agba gbon, omo de gbon- la fi da Ile Ife. Yoruba's as escapulated in the afore said proverb dont think age ascribe you impunity.
Busanga- I will liken the quote above to this yoruba saying "Ba wo lo se n jenu woru woru bi abigbeyin okun bayi"- Why are you so carefree and behaving like the last born of a dead man- The last born of a dead man has no worries cos all his problems will be taken care of by his elder siblings so he can wine, dine and make merry- the death of his father or mother means nothing to him!

Brother Wale- What are u driving at? Pointing out your Father's mistakes publicly is an insult to the Yoruba tradition-I am so sure Hillary Clinton and Victoria Beckham would have dealt so much with their husbands behind closed doors- Lets learn to settle issues, deep issues with our Parents/Wives/Siblings behind closed doors, Gbenga Obasanjo goofed and he must be traditionaly castigated! QED


However, in as much as there is omoluwabi, there is also Agbaya. Agbaya is an elder undeserving of respect and normal cultural ethos. One who sleeps with his DIL is definitely in that shameful category- at least in the mind of his accuser who can then throw caution to the wind and proceed as he wishes.

Sangba fo!!
Agbedo!
Kamari!!

Who am i to call my Father an AGBAYA? "Omo-Ale lo ma n fi owo osi juwe ile baba re"- Only a Bas.stard describes the route to his Fathers domain with a left hand. I have one of the strongest relationship with my biological Father and a host of social, economic and spiritual Fathers and i accord unto them the deserved respects, thats what i call FATHER-SON relationship. If we have these allegations-i humbly submit that both lack this good and cordial relationship

Now lets get this debate on its right course- I condemn in strongest terms the nauseating behaviour of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo if truly he slept with his DIL- what a man, he should be removed as the Balogun of Owu, his national honour of GCFR should also be revoked as he is a collosal shame to Nigeria and the rich Yoruba culture.

Let me delve abit into Yoruba voodooism- History has it that some Rich Yoruba Men sleep with their daughters to enrich themselves and/or even add long years to their age- i dont believe in this balderdash, my quick answer to them is always when this money drop into those cupboards, are they from the Central bank minting offices and do they carry security codes? Some even attempt to do MADARIKAN by sleeping with their daughters- This is a highly potent voodoo meant to cast away evil!

If Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is involved in this act of strange Yoruba voodooism and still professes to be BORN AGAIN as we have seen on countless occassions, then lets leave him to God's judgement.


Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

busanga
Jan 16, 2008, 03:56 PM
Thanks Able Mr. Wale Akin for your rapid response. Below are my rebuttal to your points. My closing statement will contain my thesis on the crux and center piece of your argument which I find repungant to say the least.


Wuraola and Boluwatife Obasanjo-I have a strong pitiance for these children, i met one of the sons of the late Chief Okotie-Eboh at a gathering in 2006, he has changed his name to XYZ-ABC, the new name has no reflection of the compound name Okotie-Eboh and he has a strong reason. If we are not careful, these innocent children will live with this stigma for the rest of their lives, by the declaration of Gbenga Obasanjo, they have traditionally become bast.ards, they will henceforth be looked down upon at school, even if the paternity case is settled and Chief Obasanjo is declared the father- the case is more worsened!

What is in a name? Can a corpse be killed? The Obasanjo name rightly or wrongly is in many wrungs far more damaged than Okotie-Ebohs and for good reason. Hence, I do not see how Gbenga's action can be construed as burying an already dead and battered name.


We have a duty to protect our children, Gbenga is outrightly selfish in his quest to get his father nailed and buried, come to think about this: reports has it that he's being seperated from Mojisola since 2005, why wait such a long time before firing the legal shots? Do we have some latent factors not declared?

In your own word, we have a duty to protect our children, which I guess include your daughter in law. The question now is- did Olusegun Obasanjo protect his own, or damaged his own?

P.S: Which reports? The grape vine or the beer parlor?


The name OBASANJO going by the allegations of Gbenga is in deep shi.t- many of the female Obasanjos will need to work extra to get good husbands- Many Nigerian parents will totally reject a marriage to the Obasanjo family- An Aunty-in-Law of mine disallowed her only daughter from a marrying a guy whose parents are divorced- It took the intervention of the whole family.

Chief Alex Onabanjo and Mojisola Obasanjo
Moji confided in Gbenga that her father slept with her as a teenager- I doff my hat for her on this declaration, if she truly did this- She must really LOVE Gbenga so much and i respect this. Couples share alot of secrets in their holy matrimonies and these secrets MUST forever remain classified info to be taken to the grave- I hereby submit that Gbenga is not matured to keep a woman under his roof.

C'mon. The Obasanjo name has been damaged long before Gbenga's action or inaction. In fact, claiming Gbenga has a committment not to disclose marital secrets is at best far fetched and at most ridiculous. Gbenga did not sue the lady, she clearly did. Hence, by so doing she gave up the rights of marital contract- which by the way includes secrecy but excludes lying to the point of PERJURY.


I also condemn in strong terms if truly Chief Alex Onabanjo slept with his daughter, Mojisola- He should be tied to a stake and shot dead! How on earth would the nakedness of your own biological daughter be erotic and appealing to a sane father? I once again salute the courage of Moji to have the temerity to share such highly classified info with Gbenga- She's a lady in a million!You dont get the wife you want at an instant- What you get is the raw material to be moulded
Off topic.


Cut it off Busanga- This same absurd act propels our Nigerian ladies resident in the UK and/or US to call 999 at the slightest provocation to bring police officers to mediate in marital issues- I cant fathom the fact that a Gay Police officer or a divorcee or a single person would come into my house to mediate, how do we juxtapose this pls?
The court is not the police. Divorce courts are a norm even in Yoruba tradition and divorce is by no way foreign to Yorubas even in 16th century. I wonder why some of us behave as if our culture is monolithic. As an Ekiti man, I was a witness to a customary divorce before and everything was disclosed: it is quite possible that is might not be the norm in Ibadan, but who am I to know. However, this is the 21st Century. Gbenga's wife have sought the protection of our modern judiciary and Gbenga has every right to defend himself. C'est Finis.



I am sick of this corrupt western life we tend to copy. When Bill Clinton had that fling with Monica, Hillary and Chelsea stood by him- These are the same people whose culture we are copying! Theres nothing like that entity called FAMILY. When David Beckham also had a fling with Rebecca Loos, Victoria brushed it aside and saved David- The children are more important than anything else!
Corrupt Western lifestyle? I bet it was the West that corrupted Africans to trade in human flesh. I bet it is the West that rigged the elections. I bet it was the west that made Obasanjo start eyeing his DILs oranges. Instead of moral equivocation and finger pointing, why not stand up for transparency and openess. What do you have to hide?


"He who hath no sin, let him/her cast the first stone". How many of you here on NVS not to talk about the entire Nigeria as a whole will embarass their fathers if caught in this act?
I have no sin. I have no DIL not to talk of bedding one! There- have my stone.


I conclude this part with this Yoruba phrase "Olorun a fun wa lomo ti o ma da'so ASIRI bo gbogbo wa ohhhh"- May the infinite God gives us all good children who will keep our secret info secret!


Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)[/QUOTE]




Hello Busanga,


Gbenga Obasanjo is not and can never be Wale Akin but we share a common heritage and thats the rich Yoruba tradition where it behoves any right thinking Omo Oduduwa to behave according to laid down principles and above all know that certain perimeters are no go areas NO MATTER WHAT!. One of these is TOTAL and UNDILUTED respect to our parents. Gbenga is not an OBUKO(He-Goat) meant to sleep with his father's wives or even his own Mother, even if the father has committed this unforgivable error, it's divine on his side to forgive!


Yes, he is regarded as the Dawodu and must do things right at all times, i am totally against blowing the public trumpet, we have a million ways of settling this particular problem, public knowledge is totally UNYORUBA and by this i stand firmly..........NO SHAKING at all. Talking about his younger brothers, i bet and also believe that we will still have siblings who will die for their father even with this trumped up allegations. Gbenga Obasanjo has only succeeded in rubbishing his FAMILY name and as it had happened before, history will never be kind to him- Watch this space in 20-30 years time!!

As I said earlier, it was OBJ not Gbenga that destroyed the first line of defense. Parents protect their first born, so he can protect his siblings. If the parent become a threat to all, then such parent becomes a nuisance that must be dispatched by the first born. Which Gbenga is doing quite eminently.


I am shocked at this response- We are not talking about politics here, this borders on personal and family issues, when Stella Obasanjo died under that funny circumstance, Muyiwa being the only child buried her flamboyantly- For God's sake, she was his Mother, no matter what! When Diana Spencer-Wales died alongside her boyfriend in a Paris tunnel, Prince Charles travelled to bring her corpse home- For God's sake, she was the mother of his children, no matter what!

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo may not have performed creditably well in politics but theres a linear difference between this position and his role as a biological Father- The Cheriegate issue of 2003 when she as the wife of the Prime Minister of Britain was embroiled in a housing scam with a con-man now serving time in Australia, does that now make her a bad Mother to Euan and his siblings- I pray you to seperate politics from family affairs. Many of u who criticise political office holders so much can not stand a day job as a local Counsellor for their LGAs

I have separated his politics from his personal life. I speak strictly of the series of interviews Obasanjo's first wife did, which was a tell all of his domestic capability and abilities. I score your baba, a F9 parallel.



............Did you type this Busanga? Are u insinuating that our parents MUST earn our respect. My Father did not earn my respect, i gave and will continue to give it out to him and on this premise i stand and because i share the same Yoruba heritage- unless Gbenga is from another continent, then it behoves him as the Scion of Chief Aremu Okikiolakan Olusegun Obasanjo to give him that TOTAL respect even in the face of adversity!

In our custom, being a sperm donor do not equate you to a parent. Total respect can only be earned when you step up to your responsibilities and obligation as a parent which does not include filling in the gaping hole between your daughter in law legs!

The mantra of respect in Yoruba tradition I repeat is not absolute. The term Agbaya will not exist if it is. So much for your absolutism.


Busanga- I will liken the quote above to this yoruba saying "Ba wo lo se n jenu woru woru bi abigbeyin okun bayi"- Why are you so carefree and behaving like the last born of a dead man- The last born of a dead man has no worries cos all his problems will be taken care of by his elder siblings so he can wine, dine and make merry- the death of his father or mother means nothing to him!
I behave and act first as an Ekiti man. I resist injustice, I speak the truth and encourage progressive mindedness. If the rest of Oodua race willy nilly engage in the duplicity you speak of here (which I very well doubt), good luck to them. But when you ask me to choose between a man that committed incest and another that blew his cover, I shall camp my tent first with the righteous- the later! Remember, there is no smoke without fire.


Brother Wale- What are u driving at? Pointing out your Father's mistakes publicly is an insult to the Yoruba tradition-I am so sure Hillary Clinton and Victoria Beckham would have dealt so much with their husbands behind closed doors- Lets learn to settle issues, deep issues with our Parents/Wives/Siblings behind closed doors, Gbenga Obasanjo goofed and he must be traditionaly castigated! QED

Gbenga did not goof. Gbenga did not point out mistakes- he pointed out an ABOMINATION.

[
I]Sangba fo!!
Agbedo!
Kamari!![/I]

Who am i to call my Father an AGBAYA? "Omo-Ale lo ma n fi owo osi juwe ile baba re"- Only a Bas.stard describes the route to his Fathers domain with a left hand. I have one of the strongest relationship with my biological Father and a host of social, economic and spiritual Fathers and i accord unto them the deserved respects, thats what i call FATHER-SON relationship. If we have these allegations-i humbly submit that both lack this good and cordial relationship

Now lets get this debate on its right course- I condemn in strongest terms the nauseating behaviour of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo if truly he slept with his DIL- what a man, he should be removed as the Balogun of Owu, his national honour of GCFR should also be revoked as he is a collosal shame to Nigeria and the rich Yoruba culture.

Why do you want to have it both ways my friend. On one hand , you condemn Nigerians for rushing to judgement. On the other, you condemn OBJ for actions based on allegations from one party. I on the other hand , defend the right of all parties to be open and defend themselves.


Let me delve abit into Yoruba voodooism- History has it that some Rich Yoruba Men sleep with their daughters to enrich themselves and/or even add long years to their age- i dont believe in this balderdash, my quick answer to them is always when this money drop into those cupboards, are they from the Central bank minting offices and do they carry security codes? Some even attempt to do MADARIKAN by sleeping with their daughters- This is a highly potent voodoo meant to cast away evil!

If Chief Olusegun Obasanjo is involved in this act of strange Yoruba voodooism and still professes to be BORN AGAIN as we have seen on countless occassions, then lets leave him to God's judgement.


Cheers,
Wale Akin
(A true Nigerian with total respect for the elders, NO MATTER WHAT!!)

Judgement of God? does that sound like OBJ himself. Ol boy-- your credibility is in question

:)

Indeed, it has been revealed that Gbenga indeed took his father to the Elders, who we can then insunate gave him the go ahead to proceed as he wished. See here (http://pointblanknews.com.blog.domaindirect.com/os744.html). Hear Alake? This very well drives a sword at the heart of your argument, and shows Gbenga was indeed not a great custodian of the great tradition of respect for elders (who are deserving of it) but a guardian of self respect by taking this abomination first to the court of the elders while seeking justice and defense at the law court against an abominable father, wife and father-in-law

WaleAkin
Jan 16, 2008, 10:09 PM
Busanga, SLB and the Villagers,

As earlier stated, this will be my final submission on this subject.

The uncovered pictures of Wuraola & Boluwatife Obasanjo
It's highly unprofessional and unethical on the part of various news agency that have carried the news of the Obasanjo saga not to have covered the faces of these innocent children. Identities of such children are protected here in the UK and everywhere where decent journalism is practised. When Madeleine McCann was kidnapped, news tabloids obscured the faces of her siblings, Sean and Amelie. I'd imploy our Nigerian journalists to take a cue from this and strictly adhere to the ethics of decent journalism and begin to do things right.

Judgement of God? does that sound like OBJ himself. Ol boy-- your credibility is in question
This is funny, my credibility in question cos i ask that we leave him to God's judgement? Busanga, are u an atheist?


Indeed, it has been revealed that Gbenga indeed took his father to the Elders, who we can then insunate gave him the go ahead to proceed as he wished. See here (http://pointblanknews.com.blog.domaindirect.com/os744.html). Hear Alake?
Did he allow the Alake to intervene before rushing to declare the atrocities publicly? I'd imploy to go read the news report very well, dont come here to make mountains out of mole hills- For the benefits of our audience, i will post some excerpts here:

A source close to the Obasanjo Family disclosed to pointblanknews.com earlier in the week that Dr. Obasanjo was spotted at a meeting with the Alake of Egbaland, Oba Michael Adedotun Aremu Gbadebo, where he expressed his disappointment, sorrow and personal grief on the incestuous conduct of ex-president Olusegun Obasanjo and his father-in-law, Chief Alex Onabanjo.

The source who prefer to be anonymous in order not to be seen as giving out sensitive family secrets of the Obasanjo family said that the meeting between Gbenga and Oba Gbadebo afforded the embattled first son of Obasanjo to lay his grouse against Obasanjo and father-in-law, Chief Alex Onabanjo who was also accused of having had canal knowledge of his daughter, Mojisola.

The source said that Gbenga who has now drawn a battle line, vowed to the Alake that Nigerians are in for more “horrific shockers” on a non-specific deal between Obasanjo and his famous first daughter, Senator Iyabo Obasanjo-Bello and some of the female Ministers and Special Advisers during his regime as President of Nigeria.

The source further said that Gbenga was extremely upset that he told Oba Gbadebo that his father, General Obasanjo is “the most diabolical and fetish character in Nigeria and it is high time he is exposed.”

This same Gbanga referred to his father thus in that Sowore interview almost 18 months ago

My father is a man of integrity;
Is he a faulty tap awaiting the arrival of the local plumber?

And this also:

I hate it when people compare me and Baba with the Abacha family. What is the basis? That’s so insulting. It is the worst insult anyone can heap on us. I even read one journalist comparing me with Mohammed Abacha! That is so unacceptable. I reject that. All I can tell you is that Baba has no third term agenda. Quote me anywhere, Baba has no plans to stay beyond 2007. He is old and tired and wants to go into retirement.
Do we have this as a true statement that he had a good relationship with his Father?

I humbly submit that Gbenga is not an Omoluabi at all- Let the audience judge from the above excerpts pls. He only went to the Alake for going sake.

I have really enjoyed myself on this debate and i thank Busanga and our able Moderator, Shoko for the time spent. The absolute maturity and civility on this debate is noteworthy-Who says that our National Assemblies cant do better.

God bless you all!

Cheers,
Wale Akin

Tola Odejayi
Jan 16, 2008, 10:15 PM
Wale Akin,

I must have missed the post where you said this would be your last submission. No matter - I will wait for any response from Busanga, I'll do a final summing of both your positions as outlined on the debate and that will be that.

Thanks for taking part in this first debate in the Crucible.

busanga
Jan 17, 2008, 05:48 PM
Whereas this debate is not about the integrity of the press. Whereas this debate has nothing to do with the proprietary of Nigerians believing cock and bull stories- whereas, the centrality of this debate is premised on the correctness or otherwise of Gbenga Obasanjo to seek the protection of the court in a divorce proceedings initiated by a wife whom he believes is sleeping with his father (hence, she foregoing her rights to family & marital secrets), seeking millions from him to raise children which could not be is, I submit that:

a. Since it is now well established in both the court documents that Gbenga did indeed seek family intervention and from news reports that the paramount ruler of Egba land did try intervene, it has been well established that Gbenga is an Omoluwabi.

b. Whereas the accused is yet to disown the reports, whereas it is a well known fact that the accused is a womanizer, whereas the domestic feuds and public attitude of the accused is one dominated by arrogance and strife- I submit that the discerning public can make one or more judgment regarding the correctness of these allegations.

c. Whereas the culture that my co-debater relies on is one that not only demand elders respect themselves, whereas the same culture frowns at incest, whereas incest is regarded as abomination under this culture and disrespect as just another slip, I submit that on the totem pole of wrong doing Gbenga will be justified to disrespect his father when juxtapose against an abomination, a sacrilege that can injure not just his family, siblings and heritage but can spell disaster for Egba land and Oodua land under the customary practices of Yoruba culture.

d. Whereas this is the 21st century, and where demands of modern life makes the pursuit of economic wellbeing of an individual paramout to his survival, where survival being the first rule of living, where the courts of Nigeria supercedes the perceived or rumored norms of Egba land, I submit that Gbenga is right to ensure that he submitted evidence to the law court to preserve his economic well being by 1. ensuring he is not paying a woman who sleeps with his father i.e. why service the engine, while another man rides the car? 2. ensure he is not raising another man's kids 3. ensure that incestous laws of the Federal Republic has not be broken thereby becoming an instrument of the rule of law and transparency.

e. Based on my submissions (a) thru (d), I put it to Mr. Wale Akin that culture is by no means a good excuse to commit perjury, is by no means a good excuse to sweep possible crimes and abomination under the carpet. Whereas such culture exists in the minds of the likes of Mr. Wale, I personally move a motion that such notion be abolished because it runs against the spirit of natural human justice, norms of the good people of Egba land and laws of the land (that abhors incest).

To this end, Gbenga Obasanjo is right- and Mr. Wale Akin is flat out wrong.

Tola Odejayi
Jan 17, 2008, 06:03 PM
Busanga,

Thanks for that final summary of your position, and thanks for taking part in the debate too.

I'll be back in abou 12 hours to produce a final summary of both your positions, and that will be the end of the debate.

Tola Odejayi
Jan 18, 2008, 01:32 AM
We are at the end of the debate, and so I will produce a summary of both debaters' arguments;



Here is a summary of Wale Akin's arguments:

- Gbenga Obasanjo was wrong to make the allegations that he made of his father's relationship with his wife.

- As the first son of his father, he has a responsibility to set an example to his junior siblings on how to respect his father and thus maintain the unity of the family;

- To make the allegations he has made is a breach of parental respect, and also drags the the family name into disrepute, and it could make it more difficult for female members of the Obasanjo family to get good husbands;

- It is unfair to expose his children to an unnecessary amount of media attention by doing so;

- Exposing the affair to all and sundry is an invitation to outsiders to intervene in the family affair - even when these outsiders may not be qualified to do so (just as police officers are called on to intervene in a domestic dispute in the West);

- It is against Yoruba tradition to do what he has done, and if he has an issue with his father, he should have settled it by referring the matter to Yoruba Elders and given them enough time to settle the matter instead of exposing it for everyone to comment on;

- Gbenga's motives are not sincere, after all, he previously has been very complimentary of his father in a previous interview with Omoyele Sowore.



Here is a summary of Busanga's arguments:

- Gbenga Obasanjo was right to make the allegations that he made of his father's relationship with his wife;

- The newspapers are also right to report the allegations;

- It is fair that the public be allowed to make their minds up as to who is right or wrong in the matter;

- Gbenga has a duty to protect his siblings by exposing the misdeeds of his any other family member, including his father;

- There is nothing lost in making potentially damaging allegations about Obasanjo, as he does not have a good name to protect anyway;

- If an elder (such as Obasanjo) wants to preserve his respect by not having such allegations made about him in public, he needs to earn that respect by behaving appropriately and not sleeping with his daughter-in-law (if this is indeed the case);

- It is unfair to assume that Gbenga has violated Yoruba tradition, as he did approach Yoruba elders about the matter before going public (according to PointBlank News);

- It is perfectly acceptable and in accordance with Yoruba tradition for matters of marital dispute to be settled in public, as is happening with Gbenga and his wife;

- The wrong of Gbenga exposing his father to ignominy is far outweighed by the evil of his father sleeping with the Gbenga's wife, even in the eyes of Yoruba culture.



Again, I'd like to thank both Wale Akin and Busanga for taking part in this first debate. I'd also like to thank all those who have taken an interest in the debate. I look forward to moderating another debate in the Crucible soon.

elgaxton
Jan 18, 2008, 08:04 AM
Em' Shoko!

I thought that after a debate there's supposed to be a winner pronounced by the Moderator right? so who's the winner of this debate?

Thanks

Tola Odejayi
Jan 18, 2008, 08:12 AM
Elgaxton,

Where did you get that idea from? I'm sure I never mentioned it in the rules.

You can certainly go through the posts and decide whose arguments were more convincing. Then you can pronounce that person the winner of the debate - but that will be binding on you only.

WaleAkin
Jan 18, 2008, 01:17 PM
Shoko,

Hmnn, You are an IT person. I certainly think you'd do better than the likes of Kayode Eso, Karibi-Whyte, Alfa Belgore and Chuks Oputa.

That was a job well done!

Keep it up Bros!

Busanga,
Nice having you as cyber opponent, hope you know that this is just one of the issues in life where we have to disgaree, nonethelesss, you remain a good buddy.

Cheers,
Wale akin

Tola Odejayi
Jan 18, 2008, 03:36 PM
Thanks, Wale Akin.



All,

With the end of this debate, I'm available to moderate a fresh debate, so if anyone wishes to debate an issue, feel free to create a new thread and do so. Please be aware that only timeless issues will now be debated in the Crucible (see first post in this thread for the amended rules):

http://www.nigeriavillagesquare.com/board/crucible/43940-welcome-crucible.html

elgaxton
Jan 18, 2008, 03:42 PM
Elgaxton,

Where did you get that idea from? I'm sure I never mentioned it in the rules.

You can certainly go through the posts and decide whose arguments were more convincing. Then you can pronounce that person the winner of the debate - but that will be binding on you only.

Ok Shoko, I got that Idea from Secondary school but since you dint mention it in the rules no

shakes. It would have been fun sha to know the winner anyways:wink:

Vaya Con Dios
Jan 18, 2008, 04:27 PM
- Gbenga has a duty to protect his siblings by exposing the misdeeds of his any other family member, including his father;. . . . .

- If an elder (such as Obasanjo) wants to preserve his respect by not having such allegations made about him in public, he needs to earn that respect by behaving appropriately and not sleeping with his daughter-in-law (if this is indeed the case);

- It is unfair to assume that Gbenga has violated Yoruba tradition, as he did approach Yoruba elders about the matter before going public (according to PointBlank News);

- It is perfectly acceptable and in accordance with Yoruba tradition for matters of marital dispute to be settled in public, as is happening with Gbenga and his wife;

- The wrong of Gbenga exposing his father to ignominy is far outweighed by the evil of his father sleeping with the Gbenga's wife, even in the eyes of Yoruba culture.


Hmmn. . . .deep words. :confused: If it were possible to restrict the undesirable consequences of such an exposure to OBJ alone, such an act would have been applauded. But as it is now, mud sticks. And there is no telling how and where the whole sage will end. :rolleyes:

busanga
Jan 18, 2008, 05:46 PM
Thanks Mr. Wale and Shoko. It was a pleasurable experience.

okwute
Jan 25, 2008, 09:27 PM
Wale,good piece of work there but hold on a minute.Have you ever tasted a bit from the full bowl of soup Gbenga Obasanjo was served lately?
Are you very sure if your wife gets laid(god forbid)by your father,that the old man you prostrated for at Heathrow airport would see the next day?
You see,there are things that are not very common especially in this part of the world and cannot be tolerated.Do you imagine Gbenga to be stupid that he failed to see the spill over effect of this wicked act on his two children?
Do you think that Gbenga suddenly discovered this act of wickedness by his father?Keep your custom and tradition aside 'joo' because you cannot be more customary than a yoruba oba who believed what Gbenga did was heroic.
One more question wale ,do you know that in yoruba custom once this allegation is established,aremu will face ex-communication and banished from the southwest.Gbenga Obasanjo knows his father more than you do and his action shouldnt face your judgement because he is the one whose foot is in the shoe and not yours.
Every ex president of this nation owe the people of nigeria good conduct and examplary life in and out of office,Gbenga i guess have been tortured inwardly all these years and could not have wanted to drop this news during his father's days in office.
Mind you,nobody will like to identify with a father that messes around with his daughter-in-law ,so my brother kool down with that your version of respect.
Gbenga has done greatly and most of us would do a lot more than he did when faced with such appalling show.

morenike
Jan 27, 2008, 02:33 PM
thank you, Mr okwute, God bless you and all who hold unto the truth. i can't comprehend the hypocrisy of all the people condemning Gbenga's actions, it is embarrassing that the whole world is made to read some posts here about respects, culture and all.

most men would be devastated if their wife is raped, but would try to get over it knowing that it was not her fault. Now a man is saying his wife willingly gave herself, not to his friend, not to his neigbcour or some random man, but his biological father, and we are blaming him, shio.

Dewdrops
Jun 21, 2008, 07:03 AM
Any father who sleeps with his daughter or daughter in law for ritualistic or satanic purposes should be disgraced in public.

Why has the old he-goat not come out to deny the allegations?

denker
Jun 21, 2008, 12:12 PM
Dewdrops, i missed you big time..abegi stay put here, with us...no shaking....!

Dewdrops
Jun 21, 2008, 06:59 PM
Dewdrops, i missed you big time..abegi stay put here, with us...no shaking....!


Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! Thanks for the warm welcome. Glad to know I am no longer a "visitor" in the village square. My time in "therapy" really helped me with the "customized" anger management for deeek heads program for strictly "The Nigerian Village Square Nonentities".

I can only hope and pray not to have a "relapse"!

One love always!:wink:

Abraxas
Oct 28, 2008, 05:48 AM
Hi, folks!

If I may ask: Is it against the laws of the Federal Republic of Nigeria to indulge in incestuous sex?

Please, I urgently require enlightenment and memory upgrade.

Muchas gracias.

Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)

Ewuro
Oct 31, 2008, 09:10 AM
It is a taboo in Yoruba for anyone to sleep with his daughter. Daughter-in-law in Yoruba is DAUGHTER. NO LESS. Obasnjo committed sacriledge. He needs to pay for it. As the balogun of Owu, he just needs to go and drink hemlock.

Mikky jaga
Oct 31, 2008, 11:27 AM
Any father who sleeps with his daughter or daughter in law for ritualistic or satanic purposes should be disgraced in public.

Why has the old he-goat not come out to deny the allegations?

What if he did it for purely enjoyment purpose, na the same or lesser punishment? Na kwestion I axe o.

goodlife
Nov 11, 2008, 01:24 PM
why would a father sleeps with his child??? i don't get it

Dewdrops
Nov 19, 2008, 01:25 PM
What if he did it for purely enjoyment purpose, na the same or lesser punishment? Na kwestion I axe o.


Saaaaaaaaaaaaay Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?:eek:

Would you do such a thing to your own son's wife?


Anyway...it was heard through the "grapevine" that BABA warned his son before he married the babe that "he...BABA" had cruised the ship/congo and was going to keep cruising the ship or congo till the "babalawo" said otherwise.

So I guess it was Junior's fault for going ahead with the marriage then.:D

Lagos na wah!

No need of a DNA test for sure......unless both children in the marriage end up being Dangoatie's. :p

Abraxas
Nov 19, 2008, 03:38 PM
Hi, folks!

I believe in the rule of law, and strict compliance with due process.

Once more, if I may ask: Is it against the laws of the Federal Republic of Nigeria to indulge in incestuous sex?

Please, I urgently require direct objective answers for my personal enlightenment and memory upgrade.

Muchas gracias.

Don Juan-Carlos ABRAXAS (III)

omaks
Nov 20, 2008, 04:48 AM
Sometimes we pontificate upon things which we really are not a party to or have had direct experience of. So if a father had been having a relationship/affair with a woman, and suddenly his worst nightmare occurs (his son arrives at the dinner table with the same lady in tow), would desisting from continuing the dalliance change anything? He's cruised the ship uncountable times, no amount of eraser, Tipex can remove that from history books.

peterosa
Jan 2, 2009, 10:46 PM
who are you to disgrace your father publicly .It is a sacrilage to disgrace your father publicly no matter the offence he has commited It is like you accusing your pastor no matter his offence when you are no God ,let God always be the judge.

WaleAkin
Jan 6, 2009, 12:05 AM
who are you to disgrace your father publicly .It is a sacrilage to disgrace your father publicly no matter the offence he has commited It is like you accusing your pastor no matter his offence when you are no God ,let God always be the judge.Great
Apt
Bullseye

Mikky jaga
Jan 6, 2009, 01:37 PM
Great
Apt
Bullseye

What is Bull's eye here?

So if my pastor leaves his wife to shine my sister's congo (God forbid say na my wife) I should just leave matter for God.

No way!! Na for NTA Network News I go announce am for the whole of Naija. If BBC like the tory self I go nack am. Bad thing na bad thing.

wine
Jun 23, 2009, 07:22 PM
Support, care and appreciations are some of the qualities that have kept us together despite distance or time. I cannot thank you all enough for your honest and sincearity and contributions towards Gbenga Obj Obasanjo..at this crucial period, the young man was highly devastated, but at the moment Gbenga has embrassed life with positive mind by taking part in several forums programme regarding nigeria ruling system. He has decided to forgive the past as he has realised forgiveness is a gift of life that could heal deeply from witin...though he claimed the difficult part was to forget..
But in the history of great and wonderful people there you all belong.
And just one prayer, may you never experience a traumatic issues like these.

Once again, thank you all. God bless Nigeria.
BIG HUG AND KISSES FOR EVERYONE!!!

Gbenga Obj Obasanjo's fan
Face book.

Dapxin
Jun 23, 2009, 08:06 PM
who are you to disgrace your father publicly .It is a sacrilage to disgrace your father publicly no matter the offence he has commited It is like you accusing your pastor no matter his offence when you are no God ,let God always be the judge.

I would call that static moses law!

note the use of the word static.

I am not sure about what I would do - some girls + wives are not worth bothering about- but darn! my father ? I ll shoot him.