As the feud between the President and his Deputy enters its third week, there are more matters arising as the drama gets messier. Close watchers of the warfare will recall that by Friday, the President had responded to the cheques that the Atiku camp released to the public in form of documentary evidence to show that indeed the President, his aides and associates including a girlfriend, his business interests, as well as his ancestral community in Ibogun-Olaogun benefited from the controversial Petroleum Technology Development Fund. Presidential spokeswoman, Mrs Remi Oyo in a carefully worded response commented that at no time did the President direct anyone to make donations to his aides or anyone or anything associated with him and that the PTDF should not be confused with the Marine Float Account which was managed solely by the Vice President, through which he, the Vice President, received donations.

The Presidency again insisted that the Vice President should respond to the charges against him instead of making a "pitiful attempt to tar the President with the same brush as the vice president has willfully and consciously tarred himself." The President needed to issue this response in the light of public interpretations of the feud, with newspapers and ordinary members of the public already expressing the view that both the President and his Deputy are guilty and that Nigeria would be a better place if both of them were to be impeached.

For example, Chief Gani Fawehinmi, SAN, who in an initial intervention in the case had called for the Vice President's impeachment, had on the basis of fresh evidence provided by the Atiku group, issued another statement in which he averred that the President must also be investigated. According to him, "nothing must be hidden. The truth must be told how those in government looted the country." If the Obasanjo camp had thought that Gani Fawehinmi was on their side, with this declaration it became obvious by Friday, that Gani is not interested in either the Vice President or the President but the health of the polity and the interest of Nigerians.

Secondly, there had been references to the N100 million donated by the Plateau state government to the Presidential campaign fund in 2003 which the President and his Deputy were said to have returned. On Friday, we got to know through the Plateau State Government that not a penny of the said N100 million has been returned to its coffers. The State Government says it wants the money back if the beneficiaries say they no longer want it. This is a telling declaration. Who is telling lies, then? And where is the missing N100 million? Thirdly, it is noteworthy that the President's response to the Vice President's allegations on Thursday did not address the specific details in the Vice President's statement. One particularly intriguing aspect is the charge that public funds were used to buy car gifts for some women.

The Atiku camp made huge capital out of the fact that the President bought a car for "a woman friend". That was a wicked cut, please. I have looked carefully at the cheque that was published and the invoice from RT Briscoe, the suppliers of the vehicles, but the dates of purchase were not so clear. One question that one fellow posed is: was the car bought when Mrs Stella Obasanjo was alive or after her death? Stella was a dutiful wife who did her best to support the President with her non-governmental activities and her commitment to her husband throughout all the travails that they both had to face together in the last 12 years. While Stella was playing the good wife, was the President busy buying fine cars for other women? Another fellow wondered how Stella Obasanjo would have felt if she had been alive to learn that Baba had been pampering other women with car gifts. The Atiku people are obviously mean-spirited. They have managed to create the impression that the same Baba that we all thought was stingy, and frugal, can be very enthusiastic and kind towards women, even if it means breaking the law to do so.

However, if the President thought that the press release by Mrs Oyo which was published on Friday would settle the matter and portray the Atiku camp as a camp of blackmailers, he was mistaken. The president jetted off to the United States; the last time he was sighted in the skies, he was in Japan. This is what is called "Rose Garden" politics. Our President does it all the time. But I doubt if he is enjoying his trip abroad at this time. His guests in the United States and Japan may try to be polite and diplomatic and not ask him questions about the fire that is burning in his home, but certainly the matter must be on their minds. The warfare in the Nigerian Presidency is clearly the most important event in the country at the moment. It has implications for the country's immediate future. It is affecting the country's image badly.

By yesterday, Atiku's strategists spoiled the President's fun further by releasing more sordid details which should bring the President back to the ground, and force him in the course of his travel abroad to worry more about Atiku rather than whatever it is that may be the target of his trip. Garba Shehu, the Vice President's media consultant announced that the President's aide, Bodunde Adeyanju made more than 100 withdrawals from the controversial account. The President, speaking through Akin Osuntokun and Uba Sani pooh-poohed this, as untrue. We have heard all these before, except the additional challenge by the Atiku camp that the EFCC should publish the details of the Marine Float Account.

Who knows what this third week will bring? The present quarrel is based on just two accounts: the PTDF and the Marine Float Account. The Nigerian government runs many accounts to which both the President and the Vice President have access. Only God knows what kind of withdrawals has been made from all the other accounts. My prediction is that should the feuding camps decide to release the details of other accounts, all of us, both Nigerians and foreign watchers, will be in a state of shock. It is sad that at a time when the Obasanjo-Atiku administration should be accounting for its stewardship, preparatory to its exit, the two top men are pulling down the Nigerian government. I affirm that this is the battle of Obasanjo's life. This is more serious than going to prison. This is a battle which if he wins, he may not be able to celebrate the victory. Not because he has not won, but he may have put all the weapons in his arsenal into the battle making the victory look insignificant. The danger is that Nigerians believe all the details that are being thrown out. This is President Obasanjo's Iraqi war, his Vietnam. Neither side will be able to celebrate any victory.

In the past two days, more stakeholders have reacted to the warfare, and it would be necessary to take stock and comment on their responses. Professor Ben Nwabueze, constitutional lawyer and member of the Patriots, by Thursday had addressed a press conference in Lagos at which he criticised the composition of the Presidential Administrative panel and alleged that section 137(1) would have no effect on the Vice President's political future unless the indictment pronounced by the panel is adopted by the National Assembly. The learned Professor acting out of concern for the state of the nation, exposed the failings of the so-called investigation of the Vice President. The Atiku group must have celebrated this unsolicited intervention to no end. But not the submissions of a pro-Obasanjo group, the Integrated Supporters for Obasanjo (ISO) who advised the Vice President to resign. Or the intervention of the ANPP, a rival party, which asked both Obasanjo and Atiku to resign, by yesterday, this had been modified to a request for their impeachment, a position that has been echoed by Alhaji Balarabe Musa, Chief Gani Fawehinmi and Chief Chukwuemeka Ezeife who in addition, is calling for an Interim National Government, to be led by the Senate President. General Buba Marwa, a Presidential aspirant says he is on the side of the President in this matter. Alhaji Abubakar Rimi, former Kano state Governor, is on the side of the Vice President. The ruling People's Democratic Party (PDP), the party of the feuding warlords has also intervened but in a partisan manner.

The Chairman of the party, Ahmadu Ali spoke on BBC Hausa Service, making the pedestrian submission that this is a family quarrel, between an elder brother and his junior. "What do you do as a father?", he asked. He said: "If you have two sons, one elder and the other younger one but the latter doesn't listen to the elder and you called the two of them and advised them, but they refused, then you should allow them to slug it out. The one that eats shit will know the authority of the other. Because what happened everyone has seen it that it is insubordination that brought this matter and most of the things that happened are not political but executive affairs." I have never heard anything more pedestrian. The truth is that the feud in Aso Villa is as much a comment on Nigerian politics as it is on the PDP as a political party. It is the PDP that is "eating shit."

The Vice President has been summoned to appear before the party on Tuesday, September 19. He has also been given a week ultimatum to return a certain N500 million that he allegedly collected on behalf of the party in 2003. Will he receive fair hearing? Ahmadu Ali's comments already show that he will not. In the same vein, the Southern Senators Forum (SSF) rose at the end of a meeting at the National Assembly to declare support for President Obasanjo. The South-South Elements Progressive Union (SSPU) has also asked Atiku to resign. The Obasanjo Solidarity Forum (South-West) is also backing the President. It is not impossible that in due course, the Northern Senators Forum will also declare its support for the Vice President, thus adding an ethnic and religious dimension to the warfare. This is a sign of how messy the whole thing has become. Umar Pariya, the Vice President's aide alleges that his life is being threatened. And the President no longer accepts a handshake from his Deputy. The two men now talk to each other on the pages of newspapers and through commissioned agents. Others who have been mentioned in the disclosures, such as Dr. Samuel Ogbemudia have had cause to offer clarifications. Ogbemudia says at no time did he receive any money from the Marine Float Account for his personal use.

I find even more instructive the comments attributed to the Chief of Army Staff, Lt-Gen Owoye Azazi who in the course of a tour of military formations across the country, advised military officers to ignore whatever pressures that are being mounted on them, remain disciplined and defend Nigeria's security and its democracy. We should thank General Azazi for his well-chosen words. The point that needs to be made is that no matter what is going on in the country, the people of Nigeria are not even thinking of any involvement by the military beyond its constitutional role. We have passed that stage in Nigerian history. The fight among politicians is not the business of soldiers, and it will never be their business. Considering that the principal characters who are messing up the political process are either former military officers or para-military officers, the crisis that we face is invariably a commentary on uniformed persons in public office. We are having problems because uniformed persons, even when they are retired, are crazy about power, and they are ready to fight for it. Is it any surprise that nobody has been able to talk to the President and his Deputy?

Have you also noticed this? All of a sudden, many political figures are showing up on the political scene to declare their interest in the Presidency in 2007. Before now, many of our politicians have been studying the political scene and not knowing whether the President still intends to leave or not, they have been very careful not to get into trouble. But with calls for the impeachment of the President and his Deputy, and the kind of dirty details that are coming out of the Presidency, it seems clear that there is no other way for the Obasanjo administration than to leave government when the time comes.

The only problem is that most of the aspirants belong to the same failed political class that has brought us to this sorry pass. They are not even talking about what they will do for Nigerians but the fact that they think power should be handed over to them. Is that what Nigerians want? Unfortunately, what Obasanjo and Atiku do not realise is that they may have created an opportunity for fifth columnists and speculators to profit from their feud...The drama continues...

Robot  # 1 | 17.09.2006 08:57

A Bolekaja Presidency (3)By Reuben Abati As...Read the full article.

Khalil  # 2 | 17.09.2006 09:16

There is indeed nothing interesting about what is going on between OBJ and Atiku. If it means anything, it shows how difficult it is and will be always for a President to hold his deputy as hostage in the name of corrupt practices. The battle of wits will not end in anything but a pregnant future that will born hate forever between the existing political divides in the name of religion, ethnic and regional affiliations. OBJ shouldn't have started this. He should have known that all government officials everywhere in the world are corrupt just as he and his deputy are. Political philosophy since 18th century did not attempt in anyway to separate end from means. It asserts the importance of goals first before any consideration is given to the means of attaining them. I am sorry to say please, but this is how states are run everywhere across the globe. Unless if OBJ does not want Nigeria to continue, he can go ahead this way and declare himself to be the most unpatriotic leader we ever had by his antics. It is then we can vividly recall how he was incarcerated for several months for commiting treason against the nation under the leadership of the maximum dicatator, Abacha. But all nations belong to some few individuals be them America, Britain or Saudi Arabia. If OBJ is not willing to share the ownership of Nigeria with some few others just like Abacha, he then, should be ready to end in the debris of history as another unsung villian.

nemesis  # 3 | 17.09.2006 09:54

It is now absolutely clear tht OBJ has not been the president for every man, woman and child in Nigeria. All of these post third term events show that he is self-righteous, corrupt, sanctimonious, vindictive, and hypocritical. Atiku only happened to be his nemesis.

Abraxas  # 4 | 17.09.2006 11:32

Hi, folks! On behalf of the Special Task Force for the Effective Evacuation of OBJ from Aso Rock Villa, Abuja, to Owu, I, Don Juan Carlos ABRAXS (III), in my capacity as the Director of Operations, Logistics, Tactics & Strategy, hereby direct that all operatives of the Task Force in Japan and the US of A should mobilize appropriately to enlighten both the governments and peoples of their host countries (Japan and the US of A) about the megalomaniac, kleptomaniac and nymphomaniac proclivities of their (uninvited) guest, Balogun Okikiolakan Aremu Mathew Olusegun OBASANJO, and also organize mass rallies across the states of the USA, throughout his stay in those countries in the next couple of days Please ensure that you make it impossible for OBJ not to answer embarrassing questions at press conferences about the inferno that is ravaging his Nigeria, and also make sure that the matter is brought to the front burners of national attention in your respective countries of abode, by every means necessary (fair or foul) Like Dr, Reuben ABATI rightly indicated, the on-going ego game taking place inside Aso Rock Villa is clearly the most important event in Nigeria right now, and has possible dire repercussions for the country's immediate future. For sure, it is affecting the Nigeria’s image badly, and reinforcing the unfair global stereotype of Nigerians as a nation of dupes, 419ers, fraudsters, and scammers, starting from their president, right down to the youngest Area Boy! Nigerians are confronted with a very awkward predicament that is invariably a sad commentary on their uncouth soldiers, policemen, customs and other uniformed officers in public service: their soldiers (army, navy, air force), policemen (and policewomen), customs officers, prison wardens, immigration officers, Federal Road Safety Commission officials, Civil Defence Corps, and even the firemen of the Fire Service, even when they are retired, are power drunk. Is it not telling that both General OBASANJO and Customs Officer ATIKU are completely oblivious of the sad fact that, right now, the eyes of the whole world is on them, and that nobody, (inside or outside of Nigeria), has been able, up till now, to mediate in the matter between the ego of Balogun Okikiolakan Aremu (I Dey Kampe) Olusegun Mathew OBASANJO (GCFR) and the ego of Turakin Adamawa Atiku ABUBAKAR (GCON)? The ego is a terrible thing to massage! Muchas gracias.

kvin33  # 5 | 17.09.2006 13:20

This is a country ranked third most corrupt in the world and we are embarrassed by these revelations? Who's fooling who?? Did you think all the oil money went to the schools, hospitals, police, ...etc? My people, Are we still talking of Nigeria?? Ruben what is wrong with you?? We will not be shocked anything! We are thanking God that what has for so long been hidden is now coming to light. The fake veil of incorruptibility (and the tight embargo on information flow) these guys used to count on is being lifted. Nigerians have been in the dark for so long, so long Ruben you should be ecstatic, all members of the press in Nigeria should see this as their finest hour, they should capitalize on the back and forth to get these fools to disqualify each other!! Journalists in Nigeria died for the chance to write and publish the truth about corruption in high places in Nigeria, you on the other hand have had such a chance handed to you on a silver platter here and you are hesitating, vacillating and minimizing/blurring the real historical significance. How disappointing, I wonder what Dele Giwa would have done!! Nobody is going to save Atiku, likewise Nobody has any intention of defending OBJ. They should keep the revelations coming, why should we get tired if they don't? Let them dig their own political graves, just like abacha, Nigerians will rejoice the day they are buried. The NASS has no real reason to help either one of them and neither do we. There should be honor among thieves, to quote His Excellency. Nigeria is full of thieves and they have both shown themselves to be "dishonorable", so they are both damaged goods -politically speaking. They'll both be surprised how isolated they'll be in a few weeks. Fifth columnists should and will profit from their feud -I don't see what the problem is..... Reducing the stature of the Nigerian Presidency?? What stature?? Since when?? you mean imagined stature?? the illusionary stature we tell ourselves exist?? Please, give me a break! Nothing will happen to Nigeria.

STTOPP  # 6 | 17.09.2006 18:59

I,m just tired of more of this lazy reporting by our so called most celebrated news men. Please STTOPP over feeding us with what we already know. We need independent information, not this spoon fed crap from both camps. More daring investigative reporting and interviews of all the people mention and close to this whole scandal. STTOPP

DoubleWahala  # 7 | 17.09.2006 20:24

Abati: The Atiku camp made huge capital out of the fact that the President bought a car for "a woman friend". That was a wicked cut, please. I have looked carefully at the cheque that was published and the invoice from RT Briscoe, the suppliers of the vehicles, but the dates of purchase were not so clear. One question that one fellow posed is: was the car bought when Mrs Stella Obasanjo was alive or after her death? Stella was a dutiful wife who did her best to support the President with her non-governmental activities and her commitment to her husband throughout all the travails that they both had to face together in the last 12 years. While Stella was playing the good wife, was the President busy buying fine cars for other women? Another fellow wondered how Stella Obasanjo would have felt if she had been alive to learn that Baba had been pampering other women with car gifts. The Atiku people are obviously mean-spirited. They have managed to create the impression that the same Baba that we all thought was stingy, and frugal, can be very enthusiastic and kind towards women, even if it means breaking the law to do so. Abati, I have always regarded you as a clever fellow, but please do us all a favour by not descending into the arena. You're talking about a "wicked cut" in an all-out war? Please!! So, are you saying OBJ's camp is not "mean-spirited" as well? You know, times are changing; long and forever gone are the days any so-called journalist could pontificate on the pages of the newspaper, without formidable and effective challenge. Thank goodness for the internet. The major reason you post at NVS, is because you need to guage the pulse of your readers, which, in turn, feeds or partly determines how you make your cat-walk across the land-mines of the battle-field of Nigerian political developments. Please, do not try to be clever by half, feeding us with a purportedly 'balanced' view-point. It is becoming increasingly obvious where your sympathies lie, and I'm praying fervently that you've not fallen victim to the lure of filthy lucre. I sincerely hope that you'll prove some of us wrong. DoubleWahala

masamasa  # 8 | 17.09.2006 23:45

Doublewahala, Please leave Abati alone ...oh i wonder where one would get this info from if not from people like Abati.Ride-on my brother i'm waiting for #5 i hope the series will reach a dozen soon. chuks

gwobezentashi  # 9 | 18.09.2006 09:37

Obasanjo / Atiku: Situation Report By Sam Asowata There is no doubt that President Olusegun Obasanjo and Vice President Atiku Abubakar do not care to be Nigeria’s last president and vice president. I mean that they do not mind setting this country on fire. Obasanjo is as incorrigible as a rock; Atiku is as ambitious as Satan. Obasanjo’s holier-than-thou attitude, his pseudo-messianism and sense of indispensability are legendary. In fact, Cardinal Anthony Olubunmi Okogie once said of Obasanjo that “he is a man who does not listen to advice; he knows everything.” More than this, Obasanjo is unreliable and this, invidious as it may sound, is virtually true of his race. And there are antecedents, not necessarily, but mainly political, to buttress this, but the litany is for another day. Atiku, on his part, with an eye on the presidency, which he has pursued with vigour for nearly two decades, will not easily let himself be dumped by one he partially raised to the pedestal from which he now dictates who to prop up or dump. Theirs is, therefore, a dangerous combination and, so, the nation and democracy have never been more endangered as they are now. It may be tantamount to prejudice or, even hatred, to rehash here what many of Obasanjo’s detractors say of him; that he is not only wants to enter history as the first Nigerian to rule the country twice, the first and only Yoruba man to really do so but also as the first Nigerian and the only one to return the country to democracy from military rule (in 1979) and the only one whose absence from power will cause the death of democracy. In fact, many Nigerians believe that Obasanjo is deliberately digging democracy’s grave and that of Nigeria’s corporate existence, thereby. Many even interpret his cession of the Bakassi peninsula to Cameroon in these terms. And, then, there is the intractable Niger Delta problem. His philosopher’s stone called the Niger Delta Development Commission, NDDC, has failed disastrously to remedy the apparently irremediable. But is the problem without solution? Rather, is the NDDC, whose own publication admits that more than 70% of Niger Deltans live below the poverty line, not mired in corruption? One of its directors is so rich that his wife, not a First Lady, meaning neither the wife of the president nor of a governor, runs her own pet project like any other governor’s wife. Indeed, her very rich husband nearly overthrew the Bayelsa State governor, now impeached DSP Alamieyeseigha, in the 2003 primaries of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP. Right now, President Obasanjo has cried out against the ceaseless inflow of sophisticated arms and ammunition into the Niger Delta to which he has dispatched a Joint Military Task Force just as was done by the late Head of State, General Sani Abacha. Yet, this is a democracy; democracy calls for dialogue, not strong arm or gunboat diplomacy. And, knowing Obasanjo’s strong headedness, many communities in the Niger Delta should start evacuating their ancestral homes. Thus, they can avert the ‘Obasanjo’s fate’ which befell the peaceful town of Odi in 2000. In that year, ostensibly because a handful of policemen had been killed in the area, Obasanjo, Commander-in-Chief of Nigeria’s Armed Forces, ordered his troops into the rustic settlement and leveled it with bombs, mortals and rifles. When the then Senate President, now deceased Dr. Wilberforce Chuba Okadigbo, visited the place in the company of fellow senators, he was mute: “There is no need for a speech; there is nobody to speak to.” Yet, the epoch is a democracy, but the president has no patience with democracy’s sluggishness; the brusque and callous military approach is the midas’ touch. It should then not surprise anyone that there is a literal war in the land today; he is an occupation army commander: the PDP is his; he has run it aground. INEC is his; Nigerians expect a rigged election in 2007; the national coffers is his; why won’t he withdraw from it without parliamentary approval; Transcorp is his; why won’t he add it to Obasanjo Farms? What stops him from buying up NITEL? Indeed, did God not deliver him from prison for just this purpose? Yesterday, September 17, 2006, a two-time member of the National Assembly called up this writer. After receiving congratulation for his new baby boy which he called to inform the writer about, he then asked about the truth or otherwise of the cover story in that Leadership Sunday, saying: “Anenih Dumps Obasanjo.” There was glee, even euphoria, all too perceptible in his voice, even though on phone, when this writer confirmed the story. “Yes, it is true. And this is not the first time. Remember that during the third term battle, we carried a story that Anenih walked out on Obasanjo.” “Is that so? This man called Obasanjo; I mean… has he no shame? Think what mess he has landed the country”? Many of his words were unparliamentarily and so I will not reproduce them here. However, utter disgust and a fed-up-with the president resignation were all too discernable in his voice. Where is Obasanjo leading Nigeria? Is he leading Nigeria anywhere? What manner of an anti-corruption crusade is he waging? And what manner of general elections may Nigerians expect from such a man? Buba Galadima, former director-general of the National Maintime Authority, NMA, believes there will be none. And even though President Obasanjo has declared that he did not understand the basis for anyone to accuse him of scheming to impose an Interim National Government of the nation, his denial underlines popular distrust for him and all that he says. Few Nigerians, even close associates of his, even principal officers of the National Assembly, trust the man. And this is logical; a president who rigged himself into office does not bother about credibility; does not feel duty-bound to consider himself on a sacred mission. The fact That Obasanjo is Nigeria’s Minister of Petroleum Resources eludes many. So, when he continually increases prices, people do not remember that he considers fuel his personal property; what can Edmund Daukoru, Minister of State whom he grudgingly appointed less than two years ago, do to stop him? Is that not why he spends money without parliamentary approval but only in anticipatory approval? How did he source money for his miscarried National Political Reform Conference, NPRC? And what happened to that report? And what is the conclusion drawable from it all? A wastrel, ego-motivated president! He devised that conference to have his two tenures extended to two more, to make four or even eight. He failed. Then the constitutional amendments came, he pushed N50 million to each senator to realise the same tenure-elongation goal. He failed, killed by the Senate, supported by Vice President Atiku Abubakar and assisted immeasurably by the press. Now, the man, a veritable wounded lion, is taking on Atiku who has provided ground for his own suspicion which his former ally but now arch-enemy, has latched on to seek his impeachment. So far, he has not succeeded and may not succeed. But, into what further dangers and embarrassment will both men, especially Obasanjo, lead Nigerians? Obasanjo is more dangerous than Atiku; he has the typical warrior’s disdain for, and impatience, with democracy and true democrats. He demands unquestioning sub-servience, obsequiousness and sycophancy which, for him, is absolute loyalty. And so Obasanjo must be stopped today, even though both men should resign, but Obasanjo is particularly dangerous to the health of Nigeria and to the happiness of Nigerians, and this is what governance is all about. It was in 2004 that Chief Emeka Ojukwu said it that something had to be done to “extract Obasanjo” from the scene of Nigeria. Don’t you agree? He has written to the Senate asking it to impeach Atiku who, so far, has proved invincible and who is asking him to resign even as the president’s letter to the Senate President asking for his deputy to be impeached remains just what it is: a letter. Now, then, where is Obasanjo and Atiku leading Nigeria? In view of last year’s Intelligence Report on Nigeria released by the Untied States, predicting Nigeria’s disintegration in 15 years, are Obasanjo and Atiku not laying the foundation for that event? And considering a World Bank’s group’s report in September this year (last week) that Nigeria heads for a collapse who does not know that Obasanjo and Atiku are the bricklayers for that collapse? Should Nigerians not stop them? http://www.leadershipnigeria.com/Obasanjo-Atiku-%20Situation%20Report.htm

Balance  # 10 | 18.09.2006 12:12

So far so good. Azazi has told the Army to stay out. This is not about Atiku or Obasanjo, it is about money flying in the sky and a few priviledged people catching it. I want them to expose one another, so the saga continues. I must say, I credit the lesser evil Obasanjo for bringing this up as nobody did, since Murtala Mohammed had done. And Murtala was not a saint either. As for those saying every head of State has done the same about corruption including Abacha. Sure right! What did Abacha give up or take away from his family? Can we compare Babangida war against corruption on Tam West's wrist watch as someone pointed out, because Tam dared anyone to probe him.

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