The first day I lay my hands on Walking with Shadows, Jude Dibia’s first novel woven around the life of a homosexual, I thought I was reading the book in a dream. I got suffused with the thoughts about how such a book could be written, edited, and published in Nigeria -- a country that is so homophobic, without any protests from the Government and from the society. So when I had the opportunity to interview him, I realized that my worries had come to an end; therefore, I had these questions for him. Apparently,  Jude Dibia was born in Lagos, Nigeria on 5 January, 1975. He studied German Language at the University of Ibadan, Nigeria. His novel, Walking with Shadows, was published to wide acclaim in Nigeria and stirred controversy amongst his readers over the unusual theme that blurs the book. He lives and works in Lagos and shares his time between Nigeria and the UK.

ON: Onyeka Nwelue

JD: Jude Dibia

ON: Having gone through your work, one tends to understand fully that it has a homosexual theme that is surpassing. How did the inspiration come to you?

JD: It was quite easy really. The society today in Nigeria is changing quite a lot. It would be rather naive if one pretends not to notice the growing trend of gay men and the ordeal they have to live through. I was intrigued by this and also by the other side you know... how do their wives/girlfriends feel if they were all of a sudden challenged with this reality;  I couldn't pass up the possibility.

ON: Apparently, we should also believe that this sort of book was thoroughly researched because of its theme. How long did it take you to engage yourself in the minds of these people?

JD: My research was very detailed. I had the opportunity of interacting with quite a number of gay males and females. My discussions with them opened my eyes to a lot of truths and pains they encounter. It can never be easy to be stigmatized and eternally condemned or simply being tagged "queer." One of the quotes in my novel -- the last chapter when Adrian explains to Ada,  his estranged wife, what it meant to be gay --  was a direct quote from one of my sources. I couldn't change anything... it was so beautiful the way and the passion my source framed that explanation.

ON: Your protagonist, Adrian, is such that haunts. How was it when you were creating him? Did you ever get influenced by his character?

JD: Truth is that as a writer you have to find a balance between fiction and reality. Creating Adrian was a challenge as I had the task of creating a persona that would be believable and someone the majority would feel empathy toward, regardless of his one "flaw." I had to dig deep within myself to find that something I could share with this character. And I did. I was able to explore a part of my youth and childhood that I found difficult... you know, coping with the petty jealousy we have toward our siblings because we believe they are more favoured and so [many] other things that when constructed properly would give Adrian the believability his character demanded.

ON: Another thing that impedes one about your story is that it is unusual to all the books ever written by any Nigerian writer. The structure looks extreme, the storyline charms. I have read Femi Ademiluyi's The New Man, and his protagonist is incidentally sodomised while in the prison. But in your story, the entire pages are loaded with this theme, and that makes it gripping and undeniable. Do you fear any kind of retaliation from the society or the Government, as things are running deeply in the country now?

JD: You have used the word "sodomy" and this troubles me quite a bit. My book or, better still, the experience of the characters in my story has nothing to do with sodomy. But again it is a word the society and indeed government have decided to relate to the gay society and this, on its own, is a dangerous perception. I believe sodomy is a crime and should never be encouraged to thrive. Gay love on the other hand is shared between consenting adults... we need to separate the two. To your question now:  I am aware of the implication of my story. Would I be victimised either by the reading public or government? I seriously cannot answer that now. It is an innocent enough story that makes anyone who reads it sit back and begin to ask themselves questions.

ON: Honestly, I have sat down and thought about it. But with this, would you say that you do not feel pitched when people say that no one can write such a thing without having the experience?

JD: That is what we writers are meant to do with our stories. It is extremely ignorant for civilised people to think that way. In my next story, I take up the voice of a woman who has been through a lot of abuse in her life. It is an extreme story. Does that make me a woman because I spoke in a female voice? Does it mean I have been abused to be able to tell such a story? People have asked me similar questions but, really, I choose not to answer them because I think questions in that vein are rude and silly. Would it really make a difference if I have experienced such complexity with my sexuality? What difference would it make?

ON: Reading your book has been like a dream to me. How long did it take you to finish such a debut work, which I can say has been critically acclaimed even in the Western part?

JD: Thank you for being so kind. Writing Walking with Shadows took about two years in all. I can safely say I started the research on the story earlier and then building up the characters as well. Since I have a 9-to-5 job, writing has been very difficult. When I get home I am so tired and all,  but I still struggle to write as often as possible.

ON: I have heard people name their favourite writers and say this is their philosophy. Do you embed yourself with the fact that you have favourite writers? Who are they? And why?

JD: Favourite writers! I can't say I have any. I have writers I admire their work. Then again I have an eclectic taste in books. Of recent, the writer who has captured my admiration is Andrea Levy, author of Small Island. Andrea was able to take the bull by the horn when she decided to attack the Jamaican immigrant story to England. She challenged the concept of colonialism, mother country, imperial England, racial discrimination, and much more and she did it in a very engaging way. I was so awed when I was through with her novel. I admire other writers as well, but they are too many to name individually

ON: Having seen the way Nigerian writers are booming abroad, one tends to understand that they are superb. But when you talk about Nigerian literature in Asia, precisely in India, it seems you are talking of one doomed firewood. I asked about Nigerian books in stores in India, I was only able to get clued to Ben Okri's The Famished Road. Obviously, all Indians know of Nigerians is fraud and internet scams. The next is, I met an Indian who claims to hold a doctorate degree in philosophy and, when I asked him what he knows about Africa, he said that the capital of Africa is Ghana. What do you think is the cause of all these?

JD: Complete ignorance first and foremost! Then again what are we doing to erase the negative perception the world have of us? We can't keep waiting for the government to do something, can we? Who are our ambassadors? We are! We have to start, you and I, one after the other, to educate the people we meet out there about the true Nigerian. I don't sit ideal when I am abroad and let some ignorant foreigner talk rubbish about my people. I always engage them in intellectual conversation and let them know that no matter how "civilised"- - I use the term loosely-- they think are, it is amazing that the average African or Nigerian knows so much more about them than they know about us or Africa. We do have some bad eggs, some bad leaders, etc., but the good in us outnumbers them.

ON: Looking at the part of fraud, what would you have to say about the "imbecilic fraud" and "unintentional" copying of Megan McCafferty's work by the Indian writer, Kaavya Viswanathan?

JD: Shocking! It makes one wonder how desperate this Kaavya fellow is that an obvious plagiarism of someone else's work was the only way she believes she can use to forge her way in the literary society?

ON: (Laughter) I think she was so desperate, more than I am at this moment.

JD: I can imagine

ON: So tell us: this mesmerizing debut should be in some prize lists before now? What is really happening to it? Or has ANA never considered it worthy of a prize?

JD: I haven't really considered prizes yet, but I am sure my publishers would be entering this in some of the literary prizes for possible consideration. I am trying not to think of what the judges would think of such an unusual story.

ON: I have been able to compare and contrast this book with others written by our West-based writers, and I think there is no much difference. The packaging is excellent and, moreover, I still insist that your story is exhilarating and the staccato in the story is gripping. How come such a "packager" or publisher is unknown in Nigeria?

JD: You flatter me so! Thank you, George. The publisher is relatively new - BlackSands Books. I happen to be the first author they took a chance with. With time, they would be well known; I'm sure. The packaging was indeed fantastic, wasn't it!

 ON: I also need to ask this question. What do you think has made this Nobel Prize not coming to Nigeria again, since the past twenty years Soyinka was added to the list? Some say it has been Whitenised, some say it has been Westernised. What is your own perception of this whole thing?

JD: The NP is one of the most prestigious prizes to be won by anyone. Why hasn't it come to Nigeria again? I believe there are many reasons, but if one is truly objective, we can admit that the NP is awarded to writers for their body of work - many of these works and their writers always seem to have something to do with human rights, etc. Having said that, what do you think the issue is? It will come when it would come and to a deserving writer as well!

ON: Even if it is deeply rooted in the human rights part, should people like Achebe be abandoned? And if it is in the drama aspect, someone like Osofisan is honestly destined to dine with the Nobel Laureates. But what do you think Nigerians should do to make this prize come to us again?

JD: Big questions you have! Achebe is well-respected worldwide, regardless of not ever winning the NP. I am proud of him, and he seems not to be perturbed by the NP either. I believe that as a writer,  just write and keep writing to enlighten people... never focus your writing on winning a prize no matter how prestigious, lest you get very distracted. History and time will vindicate the exceptional writer; look at Shakespeare today! Who would have imagined that his work would still be celebrated in the 21st century?

ON: To Shakespeare, I was told recently that the Shakespeare we all talk about is Francis Bacon, a Rosicrucian in England. His dates of birth and death are close with that of the claimed Shakespeare. Obviously, I am meant to understand that there is nothing like Shakespeare, when you look at the way people rewrite his works each day. Do you think what I think? (Laughs)

JD: And what would that be, good sir?

ON: Tolu Ogunlesi said that writers like having animals. Do you have any?

JD: Oh gosh... I'm almost shy to say. I do! I have a 3-year-old female rottweiller

ON: Anyway, it has been nice talking with you, Mr. Dibia. I wish this conversation doesn't end, but it has to.

JD: Thank you, George... always call me Jude!

ON: You are welcome. I will.

Robot  Villager

# 1 The first day I lay my hands on Walking with Shadows, Jude Dibia’s first novel woven aro...Read the full article. Posted by Robot| 22.07.2006 21:44

Nonyellum  Villager

# 2 I don't think this is the place for write-ups about such trash. This interviewer needs to do some serious work on himself. Something's just not right with him, and he should stop assaulting us with his slightly deviant mind. That he has a computer and thinks he can wriite is not enough reason to take such libertiies. NVS: Please not every topic is worth posting on this site. THAT WORD up there should not desecrate this web-site. I wouldn't want my young nephew to see such. Posted by Nonyellum| 22.07.2006 22:43

myhotbrain  Villager

# 3 How can anyone dismiss an evolving talent that's being displayed by young Nigeria's prides in the persons of Onyeka Nwelue and Jude Dibia whom I have to congratulate on the successful completion of his work, "Walking with Shadows" his first novel published in Nigeria. We should celebrate our rising stars and encourage them to be better than the best, wherever or whenever they falter or fared a little below expectation; that's when we should become more valuable to them, by offering them our unflinching and adequate support, so that they can achieve our set aim, which is for them to surpass our accomplishments. In my opinion, Mr. Onyeka Nwelue is not doing too badly for a young budding writer, and it is only a matter of time before he'll reach maturity--as a writer, that is! I want to express my gratification for his courage to bring to light, the issue of homosexuality in the Nigerian society. Even though, I have not read the book in question, but nevertheless, I am delighted for the fact that such book would be received in Nigeria. I hope that the book will open the eyes of many of us to the gay community's issues in Nigeria, obviously, for myself, I desire this knowledge and I greatly welcome its arrival. Kudos to Mr. Jude Dibia on his book, I wish you more grease to your elbow! I also pray that you make abundant wealth from it; it's about time Nigerians recognize a good work and pay adequately for its satisfaction. Peace and Love. myhotbrain Posted by myhotbrain| 23.07.2006 01:14

chosen one

# 4 for heaven sake! please keep the village cleaned and holy!! the village is not the the right place for such discuss!!!. Rainbow stories has no place in the village. I kindly call on good villagers to condem such issues brought to the village square. Candidly, the author of the said book dose not believed in it. He wrote it for the attention and wealth just like Dan Brown. Nigerians at home did not yet alter any word about it simply because we all knew the author will use such circumstance to seek asylum in the rainbow countries. Posted by chosen one| 23.07.2006 13:01

Nonyellum  Villager

# 5 @myhorbrain, No one's dismissing the young man's talents. However, human sexuality and religion are subjects that an 18-year old would hardly be expert enough in to lecture others. In his case, his fascination with dangerous, rebellious, taboo practice like homosexuality; and paganism (hinduism). If he wants encouragement from the homefront, he's on the wrong side of the battle, wasted talent. There are so many more important things he could be involved in. Homosexuality is a dead-end, it's death, it produces nothing. That homosexuals choose to dishonor their body is their choice and remains so; however they should not throw it in my face. Enough already if they don't want bad press. The young man should either go see a Psychiatrist, a Psychotherapist to resolve some issues of sexuality and not assault our sensibilities on this forum. Christians hate homosexuiality the act, NOT homosexuals, the persons. "Homophobic" is a blackmail term adopted by liberals to silence the opposition into accepting their rebellious life-style. Mr. Nwelue is already using the buzzwords of the homosexual lobby(blackmail) group. I hope he knows what he's getting into. Only an unrepentant homosexual would urge him down this path; the devil is always a liar - tells you bad (i.e homosexuality) is good. Posted by Nonyellum| 24.07.2006 01:28

Afro-poet  Villager

# 6 =Nonyelum>@myhorbrain, Christians hate homosexuiality the act, NOT homosexuals, the persons. "Homophobic" is a blackmail term adopted by liberals to silence the opposition into accepting their rebellious life-style. I have read most of Onyeka Nwelue's write ups, and must admit I am quite impressed with the maturity of his language and his presentation. However, I am not quite sure I agree with most of his ideologies : ban all religions, slant towards acceptance of the act of homosexuality, which as the author Nonyelum has elaborated in the above quote is quite different from the non-acceptance of homosexuals. I'll leave the "ban all religion" argument on the back burner for now. On homosexuality, I think the confusion SOMETIMES lies in the use of the word "homophobic" which as slyly defined by pop culture is "if one is not accepting of ALL things homosexual". It is very possible, for one to accept a person, but not accept their behavior. You can accept and love an alcoholic, a prostitute, a pedophile, etc etc but dissociate yourself from their behavior/act - that does not make you "that person"-phobic. In emulating Christ, one can accept a sinner, but not the sin. Christ did not accept Mary Magdalene just for the sake of accepting her, but admonishes her to desist from continuing to sin. But unlike the pharisees (or some of today's modern day puritanists and their hatred of homosexuals), accept her He did, even while she was still living in sin. Heck, He even made her one of His followers to show the extent of his acceptance. Some people clearly are homophobic, who I would define as one who hates homosexuals: ie wants to have absolutely nothing to do with them, will not be seen speaking to them, offering them assistance if they are in need or stranded of basic human needs, will rejoice when they suffer misfortune, or advocate for homosexuals to be caused harm etc etc...in short, will not extend towards them basic respect and kindness they would other people in the same circumstances. Personally, in my day to day encounters, I don't have a problem striking a basic human relationship with a homosexual, some are even my friends, and I have met gays who are extremely good and kind-hearted people. But that does not mean I want to go hang out with him/her at a gay bar, join the rainbow coalition, march at a gay pride parade or want to know how his/her date with his/her gay lover is going...and that does not make me homophobic. I just don't accept that behavior period. Honestly, I think the liberal mindset and those with the "accept all things homosexual" agendas are the ones who sometimes exhibit intolerant behavior (as I'm sure some on the other side are too). Why can't they just simply accept the fact that I don't have to accept what they do as much as they have their inalienable right to do as they please, rather than shoving it in my face??. It is very easy for pop culture to infuse confusion into the debate about this with such stickers like "Hate is not a family value" and such. Onyeka, appologies for the digression, I admire your prose style...can't wait to read your work of fiction when it becomes available for public consumption. folasayo Posted by Afro-poet| 24.07.2006 03:14

BOE  Villager

# 7 Prejudice is, as the name implies, the process of "pre-judging" something. It implies coming to a judgment on a subject before learning where the preponderance of evidence actually lies, or forming a judgment without direct experience. Holding a politically unpopular view is not in itself prejudice, and politically popular views are not necessarily free of prejudice. When applied to social groups, prejudice generally refers to existing biases toward the members of such groups, often based on social stereotypes; and at its most extreme, results in groups being denied benefits and rights unjustly or, conversely, unfairly showing unwarranted favor towards others. Why are is it wrong to discuss homosexuality? Posted by BOE| 24.07.2006 04:06

lionking  Villager

# 8 Nonye and Chosen, No one is throwing anything in your face. When you saw the thread with homosexuality in its title, did anyone point a gun at your head and force you to read it? Is anybody forcing you to read Dibia's book for that matter? Since you find the subject abhorent, why not simply skip over the thread? Why demand that the NVS moderator censor threads on homosexuality? Many Nigerians are ever swift to trumpet their homophobia allegedly predicated on religious beliefs. But those same beliefs cannot impel them to denounce and excoriate e.g. their politician brother who is stealing Nigeria blind and causing far more misery for the vast generality of Nigerians than whatever consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Posted by lionking| 24.07.2006 04:45

Onyeka Nwelue

# 9 I have read you guys comments and some suggesting I see a therapist. Well, its nothing really big in what I HAVE written, that I only placed the word 'homophobic' the way every other country and humans in the world are, is now something I should be gunned down for. Seriously. I am unapologetic. Is homophobic the only 'word' in this interview? Hew! I don't want to start abusing anyone here, but people should be able to read something without grappling with TOPICS. Someone in here said Hinduism is paganism. Come and tell that to an Indian, and you will have your arse screwed up. And meanwhile, when I said I have interest in RACISM, did it mean that I am a RACIST? Kai! My SENIOR brothers, could you all be vigilante enough to understand the feelings of others? I feel like I am being haunted by ghosts. And you are the ghosts. I can ONLY thank you all by saying that Nigerian 'Printing Press' is dead, because the media is hypocritic and could not even unbar the doors to let Dibia talk about his work. I bow and ask you to remain hypocritic. Posted by Onyeka Nwelue| 24.07.2006 05:18

Fjord  Villager

# 10 Nonyelum, pls stay with me here, eh :wink: ): first, Jude Dibia's book is now recommended reading for you. :wink: You've read an account of an interview, it should help to read the book to be able to make an independent assessment; or, will that be asking for the moon? This website is not anymore desecrated by the words "homosexuality", "homosexuals" (and a discussion of that human condition) than it is by an attempt to muzzle anyone attempting to discuss it with a bit of deserved respect and maturity. Your opinion on homosexuality stands as it is, no one condenming you to death for having such an opinion will go unpunished by reasonable people; you're only asked to extend the minimum courtesy (like Jesus the Christ did to the, er, filthy prostitute, eh) to anyone who may be homosexual, or anyone who may be discussing homosexuality without any condemnation; of course, you know that's not too much to ask. And there's a thought, no, two, for you to consider: are you entirely sure homosexuals will not enter into God's glory? Hint: to be "homosexual" isn't any much different from being "heterosexual"; further hint: The Archbishop Desmond Tutu of South Africa has urged homosexual priests to be celibate; I will strongly suggest that God, your God, will not adversely judge homosexuals who remain celibate, at least, right? Perhaps that may be a first step to begin considering that homosexuality, or being (by itself, at least) does not imply condemnation? You may then want to consider why some of God's creations are homosexual (or, at least bisexual) - of course, I mean non-human animals here, like, monkeys, penguins and dolphins, say. You also ought to get familiar with Hinduism; perhaps you've never been friends with a Hindu? I bet having one will almost certianly alter your view for the better. Hindus are not anymore pagan that those nomadic middle-eastern types in the holy book I suspect you believe in; there's in fact a strong case to be made for their more humane decency, and that's much less than could be said for those old folks. And, it's not any nice that you've recommended that the writer see a Psychiatrist or Psychotherapist, there's yet no sign of anything to make that recommendation necessary. But it's slightly nice that you recognise that there may be something a professional could help with, I suppose that eliminates demons from the discussion. . Posted by Fjord| 24.07.2006 09:10

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