26

Dec

2007

The year was 1986. That was when Fela Anikulapo-Kuti burst the charts with Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense. Gen. Ibrahim Babangida’s regime was in its infancy following the collapse of the second republic (1979 – 1983), and the subsequent overthrow of the Buhari/Idiagbon regime (August, 1985).  At that time Nigeria has had at least two failed attempts at presidential democracy, but who could have imagined that the worst was yet to come.  The Abami Eda, with his legendary insightful lyrics in Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense examined the adoption of western style democracy in Nigeria (and the rest of Africa), without as much consideration for our own history, culture and tradition.   

 

“Who be teacher? I go let you know…”

Fela was on point implying that as a nation, our culture and tradition are the best teachers. The history of democracy dates back to the ancient world to its re-emergence and rise from the 17th century to the present day. One constant feature in that history is how different nations have modified it over time to suite their peculiar situations.  Historian Jack Weatherford asserts that Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and others, got their ideas on democracy not from any Greek or Roman influence, but from the Iroquois and other indigenous peoples of the Americas, who practiced the type of democracy found in the United States Constitution, through self-governing territories that were part of a larger whole. This democracy was founded between the years 1000-1450, and lasted several hundred years. He also states that American democracy was continually changed and improved by the influence of Native Americans throughout North America.

Back to Nigeria, the question then is that considering how much the holistic adaptation of western style democracy have failed to yield the supposed dividends, is it not time we start to consider an adaptation of democracy better suited to our culture and traditions, to our own peculiarities as a people? Fela in that song even cited various countries and how “na dem culture for there be teacher for dem….” Consider China, despite consistent pressures from the West (notably the U.S.), the Chinese did not adopt western style democracy. Yet they have the fastest growing economy today, in a stable and generally prosperous society. We were all witnesses to how the crafted dismemberment of the Soviet Union through the introduction of western style reforms and democracy brought Russia to its knees. Despite many misgivings about Russia’s Vladimir Putin’s leadership style and claims by the West that he is ‘stifling democracy’, he has performed an extraordinary feat of leadership in imposing stability on a nation that has rarely known it and brought Russia back to the table of world power (Time magazine). Whatever we have going on in Russia today is not real democracy by western standards, but who cares? Whatever Mr. Putin is selling, good old Russia is buying! His people mostly love him, and he‘s restoring the glory to a nation that was on the brink. This month he was endorsed as Time magazine’s person of the year for 2007.

On the African continent, Libya’s Al-Gaddafi despite been widely seen as a sit-tight autocrat rules over a relatively stable, orderly and prosperous Libya. Nigeria on the other hand with our so-called democracy is more or less a failed state! While I do not imply that Nigeria needs her own sit-tight strong man, I am saying that governance should not be a ‘copy-and-paste’ work, rather it should actively evolve bearing positive elements of the people’s unique culture and experiences.

 

“Who be our teacher? Na Oyinbo….”

Our sorry adaptation of western style democracy can be likened to a student who for whatever reason decided to copy the brilliant student sitting next to him in an examination; only he didn’t realise they have different versions of the same exam! Western democracies are premised on some very fundamental principles that are mostly absent in most African societies. The principles of separation of powers, majority rule, coupled with individual and minority rights, freedom of speech and religion, and the right to equal protection under the law while not completely alien to us, are more difficult to entrench in a complex tribal, multicultural societies like we have in Nigeria and indeed most of Africa.

‘Freedom and democracy’ are the neo-colonial weapons of choice! The renewed push by the Americans and some European countries to advance their form of democracy across the globe plays into their national interests in ensuring their national security, economic growth and guaranteed oil supply. It assumes a one-size-fits-all approach that disregards the peoples’ tradition and experiences. How else can you explain the West’s willingness to always look the other way as we ‘murder’ democracy in Nigeria, as long as the system throws up somebody who is willing to work with them to perpetuate the status quo (relative peace, that guarantees the flow of oil, as well as an export market for their products). But who can blame the West for looking out for their national interests? That is what smart people and smart nations do! It is up to us define what our national interests are and start fighting for them in a smart way.

The current wave of socialist communism sweeping through South America from Venezuela to Bolivia is another example of the ‘students’ telling their ‘democracy teachers’, “thank you, now we want to do things our own way!” We need to break free from the mental slavery of ‘hand-me-down democracy’, that require us to constantly validate and measure ourselves against other people’s standards.    

 

“Demonstration of craze”

It is only a crazy person that continues on a path that has only brought him failure and will not stop to take stock and re-evaluate. ThisDay columnist, Simon Kolawole wrote last week about how every election in Nigeria seems to be worse than the last one (Another Election, Another Rigging (II)).  It seems to me Nigeria is at worst working with the wrong tool, or at best working with a tool that was customized for someone else without first re-customizing it for our own use. If we go back to the lessons from our own history, maybe we as Nigerians will find the key to our future.  

In evaluating all that is wrong with Nigeria today, many still continue to argue that it is one man or one party that is the problem. Today it’s OBJ, Atiku, UMYA, Tinubu, Iwu, Ibori, or PDP depending on who you talk to; but just a few years ago, it was Shagari, Buhari, IBB, Abacha, NPN, NRC, or SDP depending on who you talk to. I will go out on a limb here to say that ten to twenty years from now if we don’t change course, we’ll be throwing around new names of people who we’ll then think are responsible for our collective tragedies (God forbid that those names include that of the fictitious Lieutenant-General Josiah Killango, (The Future of Nigeria (II) - How It Could Go Horribly Wrong, SLB 2007)). We cannot discountenance the role of individuals in how Nigeria has turned out, but it’s time we start asking ourselves, ‘why is it that the Nigerian social system keeps throwing up those who represent the worst in us as leaders?’ If I have a car with serious engine problems, does it matter how many times I change the driver?

I think it is time the next generation starts to consider a re-evaluation of governance in Nigeria. This type of ‘pass-me-ajeku’ democracy that we currently operate might actually be deleterious to our ultimate survival as a nation and as a people. Am I advocating abandoning democratic principles entirely? No way! I am advocating a hybrid that takes the best of those principles (to the extent that they measure up to our own values and experiences as Nigerians and Africans), together with lessons from our own history to move our nation forward. God bless Nigeria.

Kunle Owojori wrote from Calgary, Alberta (Canada).

 



1 2
posted on 12-27-2007, 02:26:43 AM
Forshow3
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
Kunle, it is niece

Honestly only reading your article could have made me come back to villagesquare and post this information. And all my so call enermy and friend .. Happy new year. It is me the one and only former member Forshow of the famour www.NigeriaONE.com una miss me.. get ready for more satellite image . that a joke.
posted on 12-27-2007, 03:46:16 AM
DeepThought
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
Dear Mr Owojori,
Thank you for your article.

Nigerians it appears hate to think too much on these things , prefering the ready made answers.The convinient answer for today regarding Nigeria's failures is the pat answer "failure of leadership"

Really?. Could it be that hat simple?

QUOTE:
Today it’s OBJ, Atiku, UMYA, Tinubu, Iwu, Ibori, or PDP depending on who you talk to; but just a few years ago, it was Shagari, Buhari, IBB, Abacha, NPN, NRC, or SDP depending on who you talk to. I will go out on a limb here to say that ten to twenty years from now if we don’t change course, we’ll be throwing around new names of people who we’ll then think are responsible for our collective tragedies



QUOTE:
, but it’s time we start asking ourselves, ‘why is it that the Nigerian social system keeps throwing up those who represent the worst in us as leaders?’ If I have a car with serious engine problems, does it matter how many times I change the driver?


Thank you. Rather than examining the car,most Nigerians want to blame the drivers. Oh our leaders are always selfish they say, our leaders are ever corrupt. The question is WHY?.
If I go back to live in Nigeria today, chances are that I will have to become corrupt in order to "succeed". Why? Very simple, because the structures are set up that way!


The failure of leadership that people refer to is not wrong, however it is a consequence of a much deeper malaise which is much more difficult to tackle.
A failure of leadership is a relatively simple thing to resolve. A concerted search for good people will fix that problem - and there are good people in Nigeria. It can also simply be addressed by even by the do nothing approach of blind chance . For example, if you roll the dice long enough, by the laws of probabilities governing random stochaistic events, you should get distribution that evenly reflects all the characteristics of the dice. Meaning even if we fold our arms and decide absolutely to DO NOTHING, with time, eventually , good people and good leadership should emerge in Nigeria. Unless of course something is fundamentally and perhaps genetically wrong with the people of Nigeria

If for some reasons, along with the bad, we are consistently incapable of producing the good, shouldn't we turn our attention to and examine the dice?

Dear Forshow,
How now, good to see you still dey kampe. This your radio and sattelite sef. You fit zoom my house? And I still don't know the laplace transform of 10 O!
posted on 12-27-2007, 04:06:21 AM
Forshow3
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
where in lagos do you live. Iwould show the picture for you.. Name the street and any landmark in your area.. example if you live close to the national stadium. include it . it makes easy to show you your street.
posted on 12-27-2007, 04:21:13 AM
Denker
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
Rather than examining the car,most Nigerians want to blame the drivers


...if only you knew how wrong you are..the irreparability, irredeemability and inconsistencies erroneously being projected by yours of the above quote..!
..a car is just as good as the driver conducting it...now go figure the fallacies in your statement in quote, above!

DT, stop trying messing around with universal accepted veracity..you can't change unchangeable...my bruder.

i repeat, naija problem na problem of LEADERSHIP
posted on 12-27-2007, 05:22:22 AM
Gladiator
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
Western democracies are premised on some very fundamental principles that are mostly absent in most African societies. The principles of separation of powers, majority rule, coupled with individual and minority rights, freedom of speech and religion, and the right to equal protection under the law while not completely alien to us, are more difficult to entrench in a complex tribal, multicultural societies like we have in Nigeria and indeed most of Africa.


Whilst the main suggestion of the writer is one that many can ascribe to, the general thrust of the article misses the point. The fact is that the cobbled together nationalities that form Nigeria have not gone through a collective process of building a civil nation in the true sense of the word. Some may argue that it was started with the civil war but its logical completion has been interrupted by the military interventions, the various imposed political experimentations and corruption mixed with tribalism (nowadays euphemistically referred to as "Failure of leadership").

So to develop the analogy, it is both the construction of and more importantly the destination of the ROAD itself on which the CAR that is being driven by the IBB's, OBJs, and Ibori's that needs to be addressed by convening a sovereign national conference to thrash out all the issues and produce a true reflection of the will and aspirations of the Nigeria nation in the form of a negotiated constitution to govern all aspects of our political development.

Once the road is properly constructed with an "agreed" destination then it will matter not who the driver is and then the "alien" principles of separation of powers, majority rule, individual and minority rights, freedom of speech and religion etc. will be imbibed over time into the cultural and traditional fabric of Nigeria. To survive and prosper in the Information Age world that we are living in today, there is absolutely NO alternative to choice-based representative democracy the only question is: "what flavour?".
posted on 12-27-2007, 05:41:47 AM
Forshow3
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
Listen to one of Kunle music.


If any author of a book is interested to showcase is book on national television in Nigeria.. email me Admin@ThisGlobe.com
posted on 12-27-2007, 06:04:29 AM
Denker
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
.....(nowadays euphemistically referred to as \"Failure of leadership\").
blah..bla....


...no matter how you try to bend it..if you like carry all di dictionary come..you can't change unchangeable...i repeat again, once di leadership fails everything collapses...

my great great ancestors in their great wisdom had maintained: if fish head kaputt, di body don rubbish bi dat...
posted on 12-27-2007, 08:46:32 AM
Hap
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
Again another Nigeria really wrote something that makes real sense. Yes, we have to go our own way but the basic and most impt first step has to be discipline, discipline and discipline. Once this is achieved believe me everything else will fell in place. Or better embibe the Taiye solarin principle or Mayflower path Nigeria will surely move forward or better off. Trust me fellow Nigerians it works.
posted on 12-28-2007, 06:19:57 AM
Enforcer
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
Again another Nigeria really wrote something that makes real sense. Yes, we have to go our own way but the basic and most impt first step has to be discipline, discipline and discipline. Once this is achieved believe me everything else will fell in place. Or better embibe the Taiye solarin principle or Mayflower path Nigeria will surely move forward or better off. Trust me fellow Nigerians it works.


hap,

I get very worried and end up having horrible nightmares each time I hear the words "fellow Nigerians". Experience has thought me to be wary because promises that follow those words never get fulfilled and few months later we always ended up worse than when we started.

Please next time you post anything on NVS avoid the use of those dreaded words and spare me the nightmares that comes with it.

Thank you in anticipation of your understanding.
posted on 12-28-2007, 09:42:53 AM
DeepThought
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
DT, stop trying messing around with universal accepted veracity..you can't change unchangeable...my bruder.
i repeat, naija problem na problem of LEADERSHIP




Dexterious Denker and fellow Nigerians ( I threw that one in just to aggravate enforcer)

If you insist in narrowing it down to that one singjularity, I guess, that is just your way of saying Nigerians are genetically defective.

To focus on leadership and neglect the system and structure is futile.
We cannot afford to wait and hope for a messia figure, the wonderful leader to emerge from out of nowhere. Perhaps its better to focus on putting in place a system or structures that wil encourage the emergence of good leaders.

There is an interesting article here that discusses some of these things.

Neither myself or the author of the article I reference do not underplay the importance of good leadership

QUOTE:
One of our most glaring failures has been in the area of leadership.


However, I think the author understands that this problem is not just one of leadership

Is good leadership possible under the following scenario which applies to the Nigerian state?

QUOTE:
In such a state, there is no law that anyone is willing to obey. The state itself is considered illegitimate. Force and fraud are the two driving forces. Individuals arrange for their own security, their own electricity, their own water; every home is like a private local government. What we need we take, in complete disregard of any rules. Hobbes calls this chaotic free-for-all a state of war, the very heart of our darkness. It is an entirely unpredictable place, and everyone plans only for the short term.

“In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain; and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and the danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.”
posted on 12-29-2007, 07:27:31 AM
Enforcer
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
Dexterious Denker and fellow Nigerians ( I threw that one in just to aggravate enforcer)

If you insist in narrowing it down to that one singjularity, I guess, that is just your way of saying Nigerians are genetically defective.

To focus on leadership and neglect the system and structure is futile.
We cannot afford to wait and hope for a messia figure, the wonderful leader to emerge from out of nowhere. Perhaps its better to focus on putting in place a system or structures that wil encourage the emergence of good leaders.

Is good leadership possible under the following scenario which applies to the Nigerian state?



DeepThought

Like most authors on the subject of leadership, you are making a mistake if you believe that a beautiful system or structure is the most important requirement in solving a leadership problem. The common saying but often neglected is that any system or structure is as good as the people that operate it. There is nothing significantly wrong with the Nigerian structure. The real problem is the lack of will to enforce the rules and regulations that govern our activities.

When I was at Uniben doing my executive MBA (1997 graduating set, if you insist on the exact year!), on the first day of lecture, this Professor walked in and ask us to get a pen and paper for a quick test. He asked what appeared to be a very simple question which was "Who is a good manager?" Many wrote pages. Then he stopped us and wrote his own answer on the board...which was "A good manager is one that can force a horse to the river and encourages it to drink water". Each time I used that example in my 2007 training programmes for NHS managers here in the UK, it never failed to excite them as it did to me many years ago.

I am pleased to say that this Professor is a Nigerian.

What distinguished a good leader from everyone else is that they make things that an average person considers impossible possible. They have that unique quality.

Let me stop here by remind you of the saying that a bad workman always blame his tools!!
posted on 12-29-2007, 07:37:25 AM
Denker
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
Enforcer, my dear, you try small, but me like your take on dis common case...send to me your address...get a copy of my thoughts on Naija -is just 100 pages...thanks once again!
posted on 12-29-2007, 14:34:53 PM
Enforcer
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
Enforcer, my dear, you try small, but me like your take on dis common case...send to me your address...get a copy of my thoughts on Naija -is just 100 pages...thanks once again!


denker,

Thank you very much for the offer. I'm keen to receive a copy. I've sent you my address by PM.
posted on 12-29-2007, 16:02:24 PM
DeepThought
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
The common saying but often neglected is that any system or structure is as good as the people that operate it.


False.

1. Because the above is incomplete, though it sounds good , it is really false.

A system is as good as the people that designed AND operate it. By training, I'm an engineer and I 've designed systems and structures in the past. Keep in mind is that if my original design of a structure or system is defective, no matter how good an operator you are, you will have very serious problems if you just take whatever garbage I designed for you and run away to begin operating with it. Nigeria and Nigerians are merely operating a system the had no imput in designing and which was designed to serve other purposes.

2. O.K, Lets even for a second or two suspend my logic and go with yours. Lets pretend that Nigeria's system is not defective.
If we agree that the problem is only operational, that is, it is limited to the people who operate the system, the question then becomes, why are the operators consistently bad? Is there something in the air, the food, water or in the sun that makes them bad? Is this natural in normal human beings?

If the people who operate the system are Nigerians, then, you will have to conclude that the Nigerian people are not normal.

QUOTE:
The real problem is the lack of will to enforce the rules and regulations that govern our activities.


Again only partly correct. It would be an abberation in human nature if normal people continously lack the will to enforce rules and regulations that govern their activities. The history of native communities in Nigeria and Africa clearly showed that the people never lacked the will to enforce whatever it was that they considered to be good and necessary to properly govern their lives and regulate their society. So you just couldn't steal or break the rules in traditional society without immediately facing very serious consequences. So why is it now that in today's Nigeira, suddenly and conviniently, >>the real problem is the lack of will to enforce the rules and regulations that govern our activities.<< ?


QUOTE:
Let me stop here by remind you of the saying that a bad workman always blame his tools!!

Not only does a bad workman blame his tools. He also blames everything and everyone in sight, including co-workers (and his environment.) In this Nigerian enterprise, we blame not just our tools, but we excessively love to blame our co-workers (leadership).


QUOTE:
you are making a mistake if you believe that a beautiful system or structure is the most important requirement in solving a leadership problem.
.

When Nigerians harp on this leadership issue, I think they really mean they want a messiah or some kind of messianic leadership figure .Although I even doubt it, but perhaps a messiah could work with the present sturcture in Nigeria and what we have in the so called international community today and get good results. But Messiahs come around only once in about 2000 years or so

But Nigerians are not ALL BAD. There are good and decent people in Nigeria as you would expect in a normal people. The beauty of having a good system or structure is that it makes the reliance upon the emergence of the great leader unnecessary as the merely good person is all that would be required in such a system. This should be our goal in Nigeria rather than this obsession with waiting for a Christ or bemoaning good leadership
posted on 12-30-2007, 06:16:38 AM
Enforcer
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
False.

1. Because the above is incomplete, though it sounds good , it is really false.

A system is as good as the people that designed AND operate it. By training, I'm an engineer and I 've designed systems and structures in the past. Keep in mind is that if my original design of a structure or system is defective, no matter how good an operator you are, you will have very serious problems if you just take whatever garbage I designed for you and run away to begin operating with it. Nigeria and Nigerians are merely operating a system the had no imput in designing and which was designed to serve other purposes.

2. O.K, Lets even for a second or two suspend my logic and go with yours. Lets pretend that Nigeria's system is not defective.
If we agree that the problem is only operational, that is, it is limited to the people who operate the system, the question then becomes, why are the operators consistently bad? Is there something in the air, the food, water or in the sun that makes them bad? Is this natural in normal human beings?

If the people who operate the system are Nigerians, then, you will have to conclude that the Nigerian people are not normal.



Again only partly correct. It would be an abberation in human nature if normal people continously lack the will to enforce rules and regulations that govern their activities. The history of native communities in Nigeria and Africa clearly showed that the people never lacked the will to enforce whatever it was that they considered to be good and necessary to properly govern their lives and regulate their society. So you just couldn't steal or break the rules in traditional society without immediately facing very serious consequences. So why is it now that in today's Nigeira, suddenly and conviniently, >>the real problem is the lack of will to enforce the rules and regulations that govern our activities.<< ?



Not only does a bad workman blame his tools. He also blames everything and everyone in sight, including co-workers (and his environment.) In this Nigerian enterprise, we blame not just our tools, but we excessively love to blame our co-workers (leadership).



DeepThought,

Have you given a “deep thought” to your opinion?

Do you know that there is a BIG difference between an "engineering structure" and a "social structure"?

Do you know that the point we are discussing here falls under a "social structure"?

My bros, believe it or not, the reason why Nigeria is what it is today is because of the calibre of people that have seized the political organisations. It is the same reason why the likes of Chinua Achebe and Wole Soyinka refused to be drawn into political office. Thugs and gangsters govern the country, a creation and fall out of years of military rule.

Don't forget, some Nigerians when given the opportunity have performed very well. Did you vote for the top 10 Nigerians? If you did, you will see who they are and that most of them would not want to go into politics.

In summary, Nigeria needs to cure those illnesses that make political office unattractive for those highly skilled and morally upright Nigerians.
posted on 12-30-2007, 12:12:55 PM
DeepThought
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
Do you know that there is a BIG difference between an \"engineering structure\" and a \"social structure\"?



Enforcer,
Behind or underlying the (any) structure (no matter the type of structure), there is always, the abstract and conceptual framework- that is the design

So it doesn't matter whether or not your structure is an engineering or social construct, it is still a structure, which must be underpinned by the correct abstract and conceptual framework. If these abstract and conceptual designs are wrong, then operational will be difficult if not impossible.

It doesn't matter what kind of structure.

Thanks

And I should add:

QUOTE:
It is the same reason why the likes of Chinua Achebe and Wole Soyinka refused to be drawn into political office. Thugs and gangsters govern the country, a creation and fall out of years of military rule.


Why did Soyinka resign and how successful was Soyinka when he served under IBB? And did the Nigerian Military create itself or was it created by Nigerians and for Nigerians?
posted on 12-30-2007, 18:27:02 PM
Enforcer
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
Enforcer,
Behind or underlying the (any) structure (no matter the type of structure), there is always, the abstract and conceptual framework- that is the design

So it doesn't matter whether or not your structure is an engineering or social construct, it is still a structure, which must be underpinned by the correct abstract and conceptual framework. If these abstract and conceptual designs are wrong, then operational will be difficult if not impossible.

It doesn't matter what kind of structure.

Thanks

And I should add:



Why did Soyinka resign and how successful was Soyinka when he served under IBB? And did the Nigerian Military create itself or was it created by Nigerians and for Nigerians?


DeepThought,

You are at liberty to believe what you want to believe.... that Engineering Structure is not different from Social structure. As far as I am concerned, the biggest difference is that a social structure is responsive to changes in the underlying social systems (legal system, political system, cultural system and economic system) whereas Engineering structure is not.... very rigid and requires strict adherence to predetermined processes/procedures. It is only Sociologists (led by Georg Simmel, a 19th century German) who see a social structure as abstract patterns underlying human interaction. Karl Marx has a different take on it.

Prof Soyinka set up the Federal Road Safety Corps (FRSC) under Babangida regime. The effectiveness of FRSC was never in doubt, even many years after he has left. When he could not stomach Babangida gimmicks he threw in the towel, as any morally upright person would do.
posted on 12-30-2007, 18:42:54 PM
Nero africanus
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
DeepThought,

You are at liberty to believe what you want to believe.... that Engineering Structure is not different from Social structure. As far as I am concerned, the biggest difference is that a social structure is responsive to changes in the underlying social systems (legal system, political system, cultural system and economic system) whereas Engineering structure is not.... very rigid and requires strict adherence to predetermined processes/procedures. It is only Sociologists (led by Georg Simmel, a 19th century German) who see a social structure as abstract patterns underlying human interaction. Karl Marx has a different take on it.

Prof Soyinka set up the Federal Road Safety Corps (FRSC) under Babangida regime. The effectiveness of FRSC was never in doubt, even many years after he has left. When he could not stomach Babangida gimmicks he threw in the towel, as any morally upright person would do.


my dear enforcer ,

i think i will stand with deep thought on this ,

why dont we look at this like this

deep thought wants to design a vehicle that will carry Nigerians from onitsha to Lagos without stopping to refuel at benin and causing go slow . this is abstract in the sense that we dont know if this will be horse drawn , airplane , ground vehicle etc . it will work within certain constraints . most important of all the constraints is the laws of physics and cost

enforcer wants to create a mass movement system to make Nigerians more efficient. this is a process design or a system if you like, it is abstract cos it deals with things you cannot see
enforcer has to face the willingness of the people to accept change, he has to deal with human nature , he has to deal with control, regulations, ethics , etc these are social constraints

but in the end both are designs which has to take contraints into consideration the keyword in these cases are constraints

then again a design might not be fit for purpose for which it was designed and so it does not matter whether this is an engineering design or a social design . it will fail in its purpose.


you are alluding that the operator is more important than the design.

let me give you an example of social design that is not fit for purpose that failed , in the 19th century england decided to send all its criminals to australia. the social design did not take into consideration what caused crime .

after 20years of sentencing people to transport to australia , crime did not reduce till the industrial revolution created jobs that eliminated hunger that caused crime. do you see how a social design can fail in its purpose.

when the first cars where designed in england they were so dangerous that they required that foot men ran in front of the car holding a red flag to warn people off the road .

needless to say people stuck to horses and carriages till better designs came out

designs are more important than operators,

operators are constrained in what they can do or cannot do by designs
posted on 12-30-2007, 19:11:40 PM
Nero africanus
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
DeepThought,


Prof Soyinka set up the Federal Road Safety Corps (FRSC) under Babangida regime. The effectiveness of FRSC was never in doubt, even many years after he has left. When he could not stomach Babangida gimmicks he threw in the towel, as any morally upright person would do.


soyinka at road safety filled the corps with pyrates, creating the very circumstances that lead to the creation of other fraternities in the nigerian universities that led to proliferation and metamorphosis into secret cults .

he probabely did not realise that he was upholding nepotism and favouritism and clannishness , supposed vices he was fighting.

i am not saying he practiced nepotism but i have pondered over the incidents that led to his actions at frsc and i have concluded that he was driven by a superiority complex that only pyrates among nigeria's elite and intelligensia at the time could deliver

what an erroneous judgement as bad as favoritism itself
posted on 12-31-2007, 01:50:12 AM
DeepThought
Re: Teacher Don’t Teach Me Nonsense
QUOTE:
You are at liberty to believe what you want to believe.... that Engineering Structure is not different from Social structure. As far as I am concerned, the biggest difference is that a social structure is responsive to changes in the underlying social systems (legal system, political system, cultural system and economic system) whereas Engineering structure is not.... very rigid and requires strict adherence to predetermined processes/procedures.






Enforcer,
Read what I wrote again.

I didn't say there are no differences in Engineering and Social structures nor am I in the least bit concerned or bothered by any differences which may or may not exist between Engineered and Social structures.

I said there is always a design behind any structure be it Social or Engineering. That is the similarity between a Social and an Engineered structure; a design behind the structure.

Bear with me for a second while I ask you a foolish quesgtion.
How did the world come to be? . Many people have a ready answer for this dumb question.
If I ask you how the world came to be, you would probably berate me for asking such a foolish question.You would probably tell me the world was created or brough into existence by God. That answer implies a design, an intention or a purpose.

Now do you think there was no design or intention behind Nigeria when Nigeria came into or was brough into existence? And after "independence", was there a re-design?

I maintain that you can't lay all the blame on the operators of a system that is badly designed. This is exactly what we do, when we say the problem with Nigeria is simply one of a failure of leadership. I maintain that is not the fundamental problem

Furthermore, I also maintain that if you have tried several different operators over the years without success, you need to look beyond the operators and take a close look at the design.

I also maintain that you may need to take the structure apart and redesign it.

But the above not withstanding, again, let's assume that I'm totally wrong.
Let me re-present the question to you once more

If we agree that the problem is only operational, that is, it is limited to the people who operate the system, the question then becomes, why are the operators consistently bad? Is there something in the air, the food, water or in the sun that makes them bad? Is this natural in normal human beings?

PS.
Just for fun , let me add that Engineering structures also respond to changes albeit in a catastrophic way, when the changes exceed the limit states or factor of safety of design. Reminds me of Nigeria
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