05

Aug

2009

Re: All Saints Cathedral Church {1} PDF Print E-mail
By Patrick Nwadike

While I am captivated by Ejike’s manicured and savvy presentation of view points. I am totally disappointed by the content of the opinion. First of all, there is no conclusive study which shows that the impediment of economic progress in black race stems from the financial investment in Churches or that the equal investment on Churches if geared towards the economic goal alone could have putting them on equal footings with other races. If blacks lacked strong financial and economic foundation but have diverted all other resources into spiritual foundation, then what’s wrong with it and who are we to judge? How can we determine that economic stability is far much better than spiritual stability?

If folks are willing to spend millions of Naira or dollars to building Churches, what’s wrong with it, is it not their money? After all, King Solomon spent fortune to complete the Temple of Jerusalem which was destroyed by the Babylonian troops under King Nebuchadnezzar in 900 B.C., and that Temple in today’s value worth more than a billion dollars according to the historians. If such fantastic monument could be set up then in the name of God in spite of the level of poverty then, therefore, why worry about building ten square foot of Churches in comparison with what King Solomon had built more than four thousand years ago?

You are a strong advocate of building modern Hospitals, banks, paving roads and other multi infrastructures over building modern structures of worship but have forgotten that those givers and worshipers are people of faith. In their mind-set, they should not give to God crumbs and worship him in the shanty buildings and for anyone to suggest or subject them to doing so will be an infringement into their freedom of worship. What if they decide to invest their last penny to their Churches? That is their money, their faith and prerogative. All roads did not lead to economic and material things alone.

There is no doubt; economic stability is a driven engine that propels bread and butter into the global family tables. But Church plays the role of spiritual medication that heals the wounds of both past and present. It acts as glue that holds family together in a mutual and spiritual bondage. To diminish the role of Church in our society today is an indirect way of expelling God in our midst. 

The significance of Church even goes beyond human imagination as Paul amplified in the holy book of EPHESIANS. Wives should submit to husbands while husbands should love wives as Christ loved the Church Ephesians 5:22-28.

Not withstanding the above stated case: many top decisions been made that uttered the way of our lives today were been made by people with strong Christian backgrounds and have made those decisions based on their religious convictions. Lincoln for example: his Emancipation proclamation that ends the Constitutional rights to own slaves and his zeal to use the Union Army to crush the Confederate troops during the civil war of 1860’s; a decisive move that put an end to slavery in United States was based on his religious conviction that “man’s inhumanity to man is evil”. 

William Wilberforce: his conversion to evangelical Christianity in 1785 had uttered his political approach to a position of strict Christian morality. His eloquence and charming speech of 1789 in the British House of Commons gave way to the final abolition of slavery in Britain and West Indies.

Rev. Martin Luther King’s “I have a dream” speech in Washington D.C that hastened the Civil Rights movement in United States and eventually forced the Congress to pass the 1964 and 1965 Civil rights act that lifted the disenfranchisement against the Negroes.

In South Africa, we all observed the significant role played by the Anglican Bishop, Desmond Tutu to dismantle the apartheid regime in South Africa. I couldn’t tell how many trips he has made to United States and how many times he testified in the US Congress to slam sanction against the apartheid institution in South Africa.

Even President Kennedy would testify that he drew a conclusion from the scripture which condemned pride as a way of life during his confrontation with the then Soviet Leader, Chairman Khrushchev during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. Had he not swallowed his pride says the President, his approach with Khrushchev could have been different and the out come could have triggered the nuclear World war three.

The role played by Church in our society is quite obvious and could be felt by even the blinds. The framers of constitution were not stupid when they separated Church and State and at the same time made the Church a tax free entity.

If very few of the spiritual leaders for their own selfish means decides to mishandle the money entrusted to them by their congregations or dupe them because they have no way of knowing, leave them alone, they will give the account of their stewardship down the road.

I am in no way defending the actions of few Churches and its functionaries who chooses go astray or protecting those who drive Rolls-Royce or SUVs to the Church and at the same time, am not going to advocate the financial swap of building banks and colossal investments over building Churches. 

The question I have for Ejike is this: “are our beliefs, principles and ways of doing things strong enough to accommodate other people’s faith and way of life?”

I believe, “the faith in religion and construction of mega Churches is an art of will and personal commitment embedded in individual free will and such rights and privileges should not be trampled in any form or shape by those who felt repugnant about the movement, unless those rights has proven to have created enormous danger to the public at large.”

To diminish the role of Church and in our society and the blatant indictment of Church as the creator of human misery to me sounds more like a political demagoguery that lacked common sense and reasoning.

Isaac Ike 



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RobotRobot is offline

 # 1 | 06.08.2009 07:29

To diminish the role of Church and in our society and the blatant indictment of Church as the creator of human misery to me sounds more like a political demagoguery that lacked common sense and reasoning....Read the full article.

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akuluounoakuluouno is offline

 # 2 | 06.08.2009 08:24

Mr Ike,

As a fundamentalist christian, I agree with your submissions. All these Christian Harams:D should be careful before we mete out the usual treatment:lol: reserved for all Haramites, Boko or otherwise:cool:

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PatchoPatcho is offline

 # 3 | 06.08.2009 08:55


=Robot;378985>To diminish the role of Church and in our society and the blatant indictment of Church as the creator of human misery to me sounds more like a political demagoguery that lacked common sense and reasoning....Read the full article.

:

Issac



I did not want to take your comment line by line because it would expose some faulting reasoning in your response to my piece. But this one I could not resist.



You wrote:

First of all, there is no conclusive study which shows that the impediment of economic progress in black race stems from the financial investment in Churches or that the equal investment on Churches if geared towards the economic goal alone could have putting them on equal footings with other races. If blacks lacked strong financial and economic foundation but have diverted all other resources into spiritual foundation, then what’s wrong with it and who are we to judge? How can we determine that economic stability is far much better than spiritual stability?



The first underline, is one of the most unthoughtful comments I have ever read. If investing calls for one maximizing a resource and investment vehicle which is the 'Dollar', putting one's money/resource in non-productive asset is an impediment. And when there is no return that is, associated with capital project, it is not called investment. The proper benefit is social impact. This amounts to putting one's egg in a basket!!! Before civil right, there was the Black Wall Street and several banks owned by blacks, and they lent money to themselves and prospered. In fact, several studies point to blacks doing better under segregation than with integration. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, blacks then were far ahead and that was why their business district was burnt down because they stopped patronizing white businesses and supported their own. That angered the 'whites' and the district was razed by fire. Please get the book: Black Wall Street. With civil right and integration, what blacks once owned was taken over by others because they concentrated their efforts on churches. Blacks with a population of about 15% of US, with annual consumption of about $1 trillion; bigger than all the national budgets of African countries, own less than 2% of the nation's real estate and no major corporation. In Dallas, the area called State-Thomas, where the Federal Reserve Bank is located, used to be owned by blacks. But in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when the area was to be redeveloped, Blacks lost all the land except for a few. Today, the State-Thomas neighborhood, the area bounded by McKinney Avenue, Woodall Rogers Fwy, US-75 and Hall Street, is one of the most expensive parts of Dallas. The last time African-Americans owned a bank in Dallas, was in the 1980s, Sunbelt National, which was defunct during the savings and loan crisis. The Asians with less than 4% of the US population own about 10% of the nation's real estate and run majority of the retail stores in black neighborhoods. Go to Harry Hines Blvd, who is controlling the real estate there? Who has better 'spiritual content? Note, 67% of US economic wealth, is tied up in real estate and she/he who controls the land in US, controls power. In the 19th century, blacks owned about 25% of US real estate but since the 1960s, it has dropped to what it is now - 2%. If you want to improve your content on this subject, ask and I will provide you books, publications and documented studies. In colleges across US, blacks/Africans make up less than 3% of the tenured professors on campus. And since HBC - Historically Black Colleges, are under funded and financed, they are not able to engage in research and activities to enhance the community and improve their role. There are fewer endowed chairs in both non-black and black college and universities because Blacks are unable to come up with the required money to endow a chair. I hope you understand that what an endowment does for the academic standing and content of a university. Apart from a handful, many HBC are struggling and at the verge of losing accreditation because of what? 'MONEY', and not 'spiritual' content. And who do blacks go to begging for assistance? You guessed it. Do I need say more? When the pastor wants money he ask the people and they sheepishly give. But when the people want the same money, they are told to PRAY and ask God. Well, when was the last time you received a check from God because of your spiritual content?



The second underlined, so pursuing a balanced life by spreading one's resources is wrong? Since pursuing spiritual content, according to you, is more important, why do you pursue contracts? Why not give up your business and go into the seminary or convent or walk the street spreading the 'word'? This is yet another lousy comment that has no basis in reality except to impress the uninformed. By your judgment, all blacks should do is 'PRAY' in pursuit of spiritual content, tying up their money on edifices but running across town for employment and healthcare. And now that they do so, are they better 'spiritually' than the other races? Why do blacks seek employment in companies owned by others? Why not be satisfied with their spiritual content and die now and migrate to heaven? The danger in your opinion is that you are a business owner who spend time pursuing contracts and who also show unhappiness when you lose a contract. Why not give that up?



When persons who should know better take deceitful approach in expressing their opinion so that they appease a lousy and mostly uninformed audience, they are committing FRAUD, and such is sinful - unforgivable.



I rest!

ejike okpa ii
USA.

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PatchoPatcho is offline

 # 4 | 06.08.2009 09:00


=Robot;378985>To diminish the role of Church and in our society and the blatant indictment of Church as the creator of human misery to me sounds more like a political demagoguery that lacked common sense and reasoning....Read the full article.

:

Issac -

As a former Mega Church Trustee, Finance Chairman and Stewardship Chair, I know all too well what Edward is speaking of. There is documented evidence out there in pieces - Pew Research in 2001 or 2002 reported that churches deposit approximately 2 billion dollars in US banks - DFW region only. When doing research, on the financial problems with ministries it has been also noted that Pastors' ask for mission offerings but the money goes to operating expenses. They pimp the people. Even with the outreach to Africa, how much of the money really hits the ground? Out of every dollar sent only 23 cents really hits the areas of need the rest is eaten in expenses for salaries, cars, planes, and other items of non-use to any program.

I would like to add, that Pat Roberts tried to address this problem by insisting that ministries come clean with their 990 reports. By placing the 990 reports on the websites this would allow some type of accountability. He took lots of heat for this and have backed off from this. If ministries make over 1 million dollars in revenue, they need to pay taxes in my opinion as a corporation and not a non-profit or the IRS needs to ensure that if they don't place that money into the community then they will have to pay some type of excise tax on their proceeds. I have seen more abuse and waste in just about every denominational circle. No one is exempt from abusing the system. The people are the only ones who have lost their way in the process. The social contract must now end with ministries and either they are in the business of salvation by rebuilding their communities or in the business of hijacking or fleecing their sheep.

This is my commentary and I stand by it.

Frances Marie Smith

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PatchoPatcho is offline

 # 5 | 06.08.2009 09:05


=Robot;378985>To diminish the role of Church and in our society and the blatant indictment of Church as the creator of human misery to me sounds more like a political demagoguery that lacked common sense and reasoning....Read the full article.

:

Hello Isaac,

Permit me to join you guys on this discussion regarding the role churches and belief system has played in our society. Foremost, I differ from your concluded statement as captioned above. You are absolutely right that believers who are willing and have the means are entitle to raise any structure they so desire as place of their worship. However, as innocent as that concept sounds, there is always a drive to compel others of meager means to contribute all they have for the church. This blatant abuse of trust is now rooted deep into our own very town where individuals are being compelled for contribution towards an endless church projects one of which is the church building. The size of this church is not reflective of the income per capital of the worshipers. Congregants are being tasked endlessly and peer pressure is forcing some of them to indulge in shameful acts to raise money for donation to the church. The kind of pressure that is mounting on theses congregants is so much that you see peasants who donate all their meager earning believing their life will change for better.

As for building a structure of worship of any size as so stated, mind you that human being since inception has been erecting all kinds of structure to immortalize their existence; starting from pyramids of Egypt to Taj Mahal and now we building house in space. Is a question of time before a church is built either in space or on the moon. Human beings have all kinds of faith being it Hinduism, Islamism, Christianity, Buddhism and so forth but they all have something in common – the need for money and material things. You go to church and make a donation today, a human being is going to take that your money and spend it somehow.

Long before the coming of white man and his religion, our people knew the existence of God (Chukwu) whom they revered and worshiped in accordance to our own understanding. Our people were honest and truthful as they were codes guiding behavior. Today a fellow Christian can look at you straight in the eye, lie to you, steal from you and swear by the Bible that he was innocent of all the charges. In today’s Nigeria, everything is a fair game and rogue religion is no different.




-Nick-

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toksyleightoksyleigh is offline

 # 6 | 06.08.2009 12:28

Chei,

You now see why I no like to discuss Religion and Politics with my fellow Naija!!!

Hmmmmmm..wow.. I still remember growing up in Lagos and visiting some of small Aladura churches in the 70's and the 80's before we left Naija, those churches were small and built with wood.......the pastors are happy, accommodating, I remember at one of those churches before the end of the service they announced the name of the person that will give the pastor and his family a ride home that night because the Pastor does not have Private jets or convoys of empty darkened windowed SUV's neither does he have a Rolls Royce phantom and all the new toys that goes with being a true servant of God these days... ......the church members will have to organize food brought by each church member that will eat after the service because everyone will be too tired to go and cook after the lenghty service........why do those service go on for that long....anyways... let me ask you people the following questions:

1. Are the pastors of those yester-years not serving the real God?
2. Are their prayers not going to thesame God that was present in the 70's and 80's and always will be same?
3. Has God changed his requirements from his follower in 70's and 80's to a new requirements in today's society?
4. Has god changed his residence to another palatial place recently?
5. Is the probability of having your prayers answered dependent on the size of your wallet, worship centre, how expensive your cars and private jets or designer suit are?
6. or is the evil that we pepertrate in the name of God against each other these days so disgusting that we think that these expensive charade will placate (borrowing Cheif Zebrudaiya okorigbwe wongbo's words) God's opinion about us?

7. Or are we just fooling each other?


God Help us all (Although I think he left Africa a long, long time ago)
Goriola Abamieda Jr.
Eze Wuruwuru of NVS

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Anioma777Anioma777 is offline

 # 7 | 06.08.2009 13:16

@Issac Ike

After reading your article I had to read it again to make sure I had not come under demonic attack and start speaking or reading in Tongues:D

Tell me where God said or Jesus preached in expensive buildings or areas and demanded henceforth christians of later generations must do likewise. God in my understading is a practical God. I am 100% sure he will rather I give more money to build better things for people that giving all to him....oops sorry to the pastors and so called "men" of God

What many STUPID AND DEMENTED SO CALLED NIGERIAN CHRISTIANS DONT UNDERSTAND, IS THAT NO AMOUNT OF MONEY CAN IMPRESS GOD. THE CONTENTS OF YOUR HEARTS AND ACTIONS IS WHAT GOD WILL TAX.

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Boko-HaramBoko-Haram is offline

 # 8 | 06.08.2009 16:09

With God and Allah, Obasanjo, IBB, Yar Adua Snr and Yar Adua Jnr AND the others destroyed Nigeria.

Religion is Politics.

Take away Religion and see the beauty that Nigeria will become.

Yes because people will stop talking about God and attack those pastors, those mallams, those imams and all morons in Abuja and all the state governors.

Again, Take away Religion and "insha allah" and "will of God"...see what Nigeria will become in less than 5 years.

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Nobel247Nobel247 is offline

 # 9 | 07.08.2009 05:07

I definitely do not want to join issues with Ejike as it is apparent that he is versed in US/Black history and politics however I think he should not have waded into the spiritual space. I read his initial piece about the shortcoming of the church and whilst I agree with the overall import, I disagree with the content.

God is interested in the whole being of man i.e. spirit, soul and body, hence the scripture that says "beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper as your soul prospers". As a believer you can not ignore the well being of one at the expense of the other, however in God's scheme of things it is the prosperity of the soul first before the material prosperity. This means seeking spiritual development and expression is well in line with God's will, but it shouldn't stop there as the welfare of the people is also important to God. So I believe that churches should as well engage in the development of the society; be it in the development of banks, hospitals e.t.c

It was okay for Solomon to build the gigantic edifice he built then because he operated under the old covenant when God dwelt in the temple. In the new covenant, God is no longer dwelling in physical temples but now indwells in man so we can not equate the development of the All Saints Church with Solomon's temple. However, if building the church serves as an expression of the faith of the worshipers then all well and good.

Those who are clamoring for the removal of religion in society as a way to develop the society will develop white washed sepulchres, all beautiful on the outside but filled with rottenness on the inside as the so called developed worlds have turned into.

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Anioma777Anioma777 is offline

 # 10 | 07.08.2009 10:20

@Nobel247


Those who are clamoring for the removal of religion in society as a way to develop the society will develop white washed sepulchres, all beautiful on the outside but filled with rottenness on the inside as the so called developed worlds have turned into.



These developed worlds in reality may have less church goers ( USA an exception ), but their society and their leaders CARE AND TREAT THEIR CITIZENS with some degree of respect compared to say a Church going and religious misguided devilish nation like Nigeria. Even a Gibraltarian friend of mine commented on his brief army tour to Nigeria, that for a nation with more churches per square mile than any other nation he could not help but notice the wickedness we show against one another.
 

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