The Nigerian Village Square - Revisiting Equality In African Relationships. The fear factor.

Revisiting Equality In African Relationships. The fear factor.

Tuesday, 28 March 2006

Preface by author: Revisiting this topic on equality and Mothers-in-law, was inspired by some of the responses on Nigeria Village Square and in particular by some female respondents who highlighted the fact that while women accept the imperfections of their gender, “SOME” men will never concede even when the problems ascribed to their gender is very glaring. ( “Soul Sista” ); ( “beepee” ) ;

As one can see, “SOME” have become completely “undone”, getting all “out of sorts”. Things have begun to shift in their insides just with the stroke of the pen of a few intelligent women (“Sisimi“, “Emj“, “Soul Sista““, African Queen, Maryam, “Guest”, “BeePee“, “Serious Naijababe” etc on the NVS site and others) .

This in my opinion are not issues that have been “over-flogged” , because we’ve not even begun to make a dent in the abusive system of some of our cultural practices. I enjoin you all to read my rebuttal, it may yet shed some light on where some men and women stand. Where I’ve been able to assign quotes or similarity of ideas to online “respondents”, I have done so. In other instances, I simply cannot find the exact page or name to credit.

In my treatments, I’ve always maintained that the issues I raise are indeed “Not a preserve of African”. (“N.A.R”; “Soul Sista” ) . I talk about Africans because that is my point of reference and primary interest. I would hope it touches and concern men and women of all races and communities, however, as far as my articles go, I say let the Russians talk about the situation in Russia, let the Pakistani women raise issues that concerns her in Pakistan. I love my own, so I write about us. Period. Let it rest.

Equality In African Relationship Revisited:

Yes, the West has sometimes gone overboard and is on the far end of one spectrum when it comes to women’s issues (Article: Women who Abuse Men, The Judicial System, Feminism vs. Wo-manism) but some African men and women and our society at large are not even on the radar yet. What I am advocating is a middle ground, which I think, and hope is apparent in all my writings, but “Some”” men are so blinded by the privileges of the patriarchal African society that has patronized them for so long, they refuse to “see”. They are so bloated by the gluttony of having their cakes and eating it, that they get constipated anytime one raises the question of them giving in some. I don’t believe in female dominance, and don’t myself seek to dominate a man. Never have, never will. But will resist male dominance in all its ramifications, disguised or overt.

In Some of these men, dyspepsia on account of “over - enjoyment” of gender-biased benefits has resulted in their livers dripping with too much bile. They have issued “fatwas” and categorized women who speak up as (“Women we hate“) , and men who support women in their causes as “sell outs“. Again, infantile tantrums driven by fear. These men and their ilk act like babies whose pacifiers have been taken away. The average immature one of these breed, unknown to him, comes across as a very spoilt pre-schooler at best. Yes, when men like these act like children, they will be addressed as such. I don’t tip-toe around egg shelled-egos.

“Some” African men are in a time warp. There is a major disconnect between the generation they claim to belong to, and the one they exist in. Between the façade they put on and their mindset. Someone needs to wake them up to smell the coffee. Put them on a fast track train back to the present. It’s an oxymoron to talk about claiming a woman is not your equal, but you respect her. ( “Neby” ; “Guest” ) Some are quite comfortable in assessing these ills to those whose “eyes have not opened“, those who live in rural areas, ("Naija for Life”) I beg to disagree. Just open your eyes wider and remove the cultural blinders.

"Some” are very quick to point out that “men are the same all over the world” ( “Busanga” ) that, I agree to an extent, but quoting an anonymous “guest” online:

“Has it occurred to anyone that when African men are challenged about abuse, they are quick to point out that it's the same with men all over the world, but when they talk about their sexual prowess, they are the champions. mmm,..our Mandingo big Kahuna men!!!”

I love the acronym coined by another responder “BYOT”, Admonishing women to “Bring Your Own Throne” to your relationships. To which I add, and never be a subject to the “KING”, instead, as a ““QUEEN” in your own right, you are entitled to all the privileges a truly equal relationship affords. You are a human being deserving of respect and fairness.

The Fear Factor:

One of the driving forces behind the action and words of “SOME“ men is Fear. The fear of relinquishing or sharing the power that they’ve held on to for so long. It is this emotion that makes him hold on to what he knows in his heart is no longer tenable in today’s realities, but like a drowning man grasping on the last vestiges of a culture he selectively acknowledges, he may yet drown from his own inability to control his fears.

This fear can drive an otherwise sane man to act or say the most irrational things as to why a woman is not his equal and her place should always be beneath him. A responder wrapped my point of view quite neatly, describing the sexes as “differentially equal” ( “Soul Sista” ). Just because you can lift a ton of bricks and I can’t does not make you superior to me ( “Naija for Life” ) . Brute force is not superior to emotional intelligence.

Afraid of the force that will be unleashed should women get a taste of power coupled with her instinctive wisdom, “Some” tremble.

Afraid of losing all the gender-biased benefits that comes with the “throne””, “Some” intimidate.

Afraid that the power that has corrupted “Some” men for so long will not spare women the same fate, “Some” rationalize illogically.

Cornered by the glare of their own unfairness, control slipping out of their hands, ““Some” resort to name-calling. ( “Robert” )

They break out in cold sweat lest she tramples over them, shattering their already fragile egos.

A self-assured man will not worry about this, he knows that if a woman steps out of line beyond what is reasonably fair to both involved, he’s up to facing the challenge. A self-assured man will not be in the way of her self-expression or actualization. He knows, that granting they both know their boundaries with the other, they will respect it. And if she defaults, he knows where to tug. But what most of these men do is gear up for battle with swords drawn to intimidate the other even when there is no siren of war. Employing brute force to suppress all common sense.

Fear leads to denial. It is easier for “Some” men to be blind to the realities that surround then. If you don’t acknowledge it, it doesn’t exist. If it doesn’t exist, you don’t have to do anything about it. Acknowledgement warrants actions. Action leads to change, and change is one of the greatest of human fears. It affects people’s perception of what’s they’ve always held on to be true, sometimes, shaking at the very foundation of their existence. It affects the people around them, who can’t believe they are anything but. It affects society at large, who will have to re-examine the structures that it has instituted, believing this is what its survival hinges on. It affects everyone’s thermo-neutral zone. People will “kill” to eliminate the need for change. (Article: Custodians of The African Culture).

It is fear that keeps a man tied to his momma’s apron strings, forever keeping her as a “third eye” ( African Mothers-In-Law: Responding to Folasayo Dele-Ogunrinde ) and active participant in his matrimonial home.

Fear that will hold “Some” men back from forwarding the links to these articles challenging male-female relationships and our African ways to the woman (women) in their lives, or “prevent” her from reading them. Lest the scales fall off her eyes and what she’s always known suddenly makes more sense to her: that she’s not isolated in this way of thinking. Even when these things are said in “jest” by “Some” men, (“Obugi“ ) one can see the thinly-veiled truth.

An ““introspector” online said:

“….For example, there are parts of Nigeria where a Wife can include denial of sex as a complaint against her husband to elders or other family members, I 'll bet some reading this statement are surprised to hear this. I can't imagine the embarrassment of a man brought to a meeting for such a complaint. …”

Do you realize what kind of dysenteric panic will grip “Some” African men should our judicial system begin to shift away from what currently upholds where women are “magnanimously” granted the rights to “withhold sex from their husbands” ( “Introspector” ) and begin to seriously tackle the issue of paying child support and tracking down dead-beat dads, paying alimony to battered women, throwing men in jail for physical or sexual harassment (when proven to be guilty)? But the dawn of that is going to be a while yet, until those who write such into law themselves fix their own “homes”. Until the judge who himself has 4 wives, numerable mistresses and several unacknowledged children dotting the map stops presiding over the courts, until he stops abusing his own wife and passing the traits to his children, until the president of a country who entered into a monogamous agreement with a woman yet, re-writes the agreement mid-life to accommodate several other wives sees that as a breech of contract (“Soul Sista“ ) , until more men begin to see the inherent ills in a culture that has long sustained their “habits”, until more men begin to shift focus from the benefit of “self “to the benefit “Us“, until more women begin to see themselves in the light of human beings who deserve to be respected ( “Serious_Naijababe” ) , until society dismantle walls that have locked women into abusive relationships and build safe havens where they can seek refuge. Until that time, a long wait awaits women abused by a system and a culture that fails to nurture them. But this phase too, one day, shall pass.

Are some of these fears valid? Maybe. I can certainly understand where this fear originates, and I empathize with this group of men. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. It must be emotionally devastating to reconcile with the mutinous uprising of your “subjects” (and to some, “objects”) whose docility you have come to rely on for so long. You have been warned, “To sleep with one eye open” (emj).

Yet, people take this fear and call it by other names. Some, with nothing else to hold on to will never be able to resist the temptation of using their “willies”” as a weapon to fight with. ( “Onyeije” )

Should the fact that these men are scared hold women back? Absolutely not! Women should be fueled into action, because, something has to give at some point. It is true that some women will take this shift in the power structure and abuse it (Article: Women who Abuse Men, The Judicial System, Feminism vs. Wo-manism). It is also true that some will use it responsibly to better their lot in life and unburden themselves from the sometimes unfair drudgery imposed upon them. If for no other reason at all but the later, women need to keep forging ahead.

I absolutely do not wish to represent every African woman with my views, and I hope I don’’t. Just as I hope (and know) that “Some” men whose folly I highlight in my articles do not represent every African man. My intent is to collide ideas and hopefully learn from the discussions and let the blinders come off ““Some” eyes. I’m also glad to know there are women, obvious from the various discussions that have ensued who are not cowered by the ““bullying” of raging testosterone in overdrive.

Some of these men can only hide behind the anonymous screen offered by the internet. If they truly are bold in their assertion, I challenge “SOME” of the men whose voice have been most strident in this ongoing dialogue to publicly voice their opinion in the proposed documentary below. But then again, fear reigns (sic!).

Other equality Issues:

I have never held the position that A woman making sacrifices for her family equates “oppression” (“Toksleigh” ) ; ( “Guest” ).

It doesn’’t matter who compromises what in a relationship, be it career advancements, family size, in-laws, where to relocate, finances, etc. ( “Tokleigh”, “Guest” , “Soul Sista” ); The bottom line is what works for the benefit of all involved, not what works for the “Head” of the household. For the most part, women are expected to make ALL of the compromises ALL of the time. Will I make sacrifices for my husband to advance in his career? Totally. If at that point, the decision is based on the premise that it is for the greater good of the family, and the sacrifice I’m asked to make is a reasonable demand that we have both agreed upon as making the most sense. And when we have to make another compromise that will not be to his favor, I also want him to step up to the plate. This does not make me “wear the pants in the home”. This is true compromise, not the ¾ = ¼ type assumed by some African men (Article: The double standard LOGIC of Some African Men). When a woman is asking for concessions that will sometimes favor her in the home, she’s accused of self- absorption. She’s said to be consumed with “What about me, all my degrees, what about what I want and I and I and I.” (“Toksleigh” ). The men who think this should seriously take a good look in the mirror, and while they are at it, preach the “gospel““ of and “US” and “US” and “US”” to their fellow men.

“Some” men never tire of quoting the 50% divorce rate in the West - another favorite crutch they hold on to in justifying the notion of “leaving things as they are” (“Busanga“ ; “EeZeeBee” ) . They are of course again blind to the fact that most African marriages are lived “unhappily ever after”. Of the 50% who remained married in the West, it is believed that about 70% of those (or 35% of all marriages) claim they are content in their marriages and would do it all over again. Okay, let’s use Nigerian marriages as an African model. I would employ guesstimates in my analysis (Yes guesstimates, because Nigeria is not a country who spends her pastime tracking data, so don’t throw empirical data my way). I’ll say a generous 70% of all (monogamous and polygamous) marriages in Nigeria survive the divorce courts. Of that, say half (35% of all marriages) would opt out if there were social structures in place that will permit such "frivolities" (Looking at it from the point of view of women as they are mostly affected by the economic effects of divorce in Africa). And this is not counting those merely staying because of their children, or those turning a blind eye to their “totally out of control husbands” who sows his wild oats all over the place, or those accepting physical or emotional abuse as the normal course of things. By my parent’s estimate who have a better insight into marriages than I do, they reckon one would be hard-pressed to find 1 out of 10 viable and truly happy marriage in Nigeria, less than a 10% success rate. So yes, more than 50% do not end in divorce, but what use is quantity with no quality of life? Most African women suffer their spouses in silence because of societal stigma or considerations for their children‘s welfare (“Guest“ ). Again, “Some” would not see this glaring defect in the system, because as far as they are concerned, all is well and “dandy” on the home front, the problems only exist in the figment of the imagination of most women, notably the author ( “EeZeeBee“ ) . Maybe Africans aspiring to an overall 35% truly successful marriages is not a bad idea after all . And no, I’m not a divorce advocate, just making my point.

One would think that “Some” of these men who have experienced first hand how SOME of their moms have suffered in the hands of their own fathers will show more empathy towards women, but no, they want to be like their dads, and aspire to be with women who will be like their moms, “heel, roll over, and take the dog crap”

Most reasonable African women -including myself, I boldly assert - even the educated modern ““divas” will give and give and spoil their spouses if only “Some” men will give a little. For “Some” men, it’’s all or nothing. When these women are married to some who are ingrates, who sees a woman’s loyalty and nurturing as a birth-right, whose insatiable appetite continue to demand for more, as deep as her well of giving may be, at some point, that well will surely dry up. She shrivels, her emotions spent. A male friend pointed out, that most women aren’t asking for much, that if only his fellow men would realize that giving even a mere 20% of what most women desire will yield dividends beyond their wildest expectations, they won’t have to deal with women asserting their rights, and food will be served - with love. He obviously knows the “secret”. He’s applied it to his marriage, and it’s been working for him, because according to him, his wife takes care of business with a smile ever present of her face. She does way more for him than he ever expected, but he’s had to first create an environment where she knew she was truly valued, and never taken for granted.

When there’s no sense of a guy trumping his superiority over you, heck, most women will even defer to him willingly. But to force the issue, you draw the ire of a woman like me, and I make no apologies.

There’s a superficial deference that some women will display (oju aye), and this fools a lot of men. These women snicker behind their spouses backs and call them fools when they talk among their female friends or families or in their own minds. I guess some African men would rather this type of phony respect. I will never call my spouse a fool to his face or behind him, nor will I treat him like one, because I've never been with nor do I intend to be with a fool. Women who are real know when to defer and when to take a stand, and expect same in return. No games, no hypocrisy, no one is made to look like a fool. Again, respect should be mutual.

Some Anecdotes:

A recent acquaintance of mine recounted to me only last week, how her new “hubby” literarily sat her - a grown woman - down to a lecture as one would a teenage daughter, because she wore an outfit he didn’t like the color of. Not indecent, not inappropriate for the occasion, he simply disliked the color, and her insistence on wearing it because,

1) She resents him telling her what to do, and

2) She liked the outfit

amounted to, in his own words “disobedience”. I guess this one is a budding metro-sexual practicing his role as a daddy to be.

Lets turn the tables around for a second. He insists on wearing a tie she didn’t like. Would he rationalize that he “disobeyed” her?.

Yes, marriage is a union, but it is still a sum of two parts. Two people with distinct personalities, likes and dislikes, where one shouldn’t be an automated extension of the other. Would I dress up to impress or please a guy. Sure, but when it becomes an issue of “disobedience”, I think like my friend, I’ll draw the line.

A guy actually opened his mouth to tell me the other day that he hated having sex with his ex-wife because she moaned like a “white woman” and doesn‘t behave like a true African woman in bed (And no thanks, he doesn’t live in the village). Instead, he would hush her up with his hand, stifling her moan. Yet, by his own account, upon my “nosiness” he puts Pavarotti to shame on his crescendo. Okay, I’m a bit lost here, can someone please clarify for me since he proffered no acceptable reasons for his rationale, except that he is a “real” man, and I‘m assuming “real” African women shouldn‘t enjoy love making with their husbands? Please someone, tell me this breed is extinct.

I would cite more compelling anecdotes but for the privacy of those involved.

On Mothers in-Law And Abuse of Daughters-in-law:

Fact: Not all African Mothers-in-law are “Monsters”.

Fact: Not all African Daughters-in-law are “Saints”

Fact: Some men suffer similar fates in the hands of their in-laws.

Fact: Not all men are “Wimps”

Fact: ““SOME” men’s sense of fairness will always be warped when it concerns their mothers.

Fact: ““SOME” women’s sense of justice will always be warped when it applies to their Mothers-in-law.

Fact: It is a noble thing for Africans to take care of their parents in their “golden” years when the expectations are reasonable.

Fact: Any issue discussed under the sun exist in all human social systems.

The article (African Mothers-in-law and the cycle of Abuse) was titled as such to limit the scope of the topic to “African Mothers-in-law” that are of the evil variety :Fact.

I’ll share this rather mundane personal example: A while ago, my brother and his family came to visit with us for a week. At some point, he and I were having a rather important conversation in the living room. Engrossed in the moment, we hadn’t noticed his wife cooking for their kids in the kitchen. As soon as he realized she was alone trying to take care of feeding the kids, he politely excused himself to assist her. She hadn’t asked, she didn’t need to. As a sister-in-law, some will expect me to be “miffed” at my brother for prioritizing his family over me, and for my brothers’ wife to be the recipient of my “malice” for turning him into a “whipped” man. On the other hand, I respect my brother a great deal for knowing how to juggle his act. The importance of what his wife and I require his attention for probably weights about the same, maybe even more so on my part being that we‘ve been meaning to catch up on this conversation for a while. But his nuclear family comes first, I come second. But these are concepts “Some” African men and in-laws have a problem getting their heads around. They’ve been married for 10 years, and in that time, there has been the rare occasion when he has had to prioritize us based on the urgency or nature of the situation, and she’s been more than understanding, simply because she knows she’s never had to compete with us for his time or affection or anything else. Yes, he’s our son, and brother, but he’s gone off by virtue of marriage to pitch his tent with someone else, and that is where his heart should lie. The onus is upon us to accept that fact.

This is the same way a woman too needs to do a balancing act with her parents, especially her father and brothers, as the problems with husbands usually lies with their wife’s relatives ridiculing them for instance about how much money they make, how little he‘s providing for his family etc.

This is pure common sense on the side of both spouses. Knowing how to not create friction, and smoothing them if they occur. Knowing that if you want peace in your home, you need to prioritize your spouse and your immediate family but without treating your own family like they are completely non-existent.

Do some men go to extremes? Yes. Are some wives overly possessive of their husbands to the complete exclusion of his family? Certainly. And vice versa too.

Spouses of both genders should be “buffers” between their “new families” and the ones that raised them. It takes a discerning mind to see where the line is, and “SOME” men can’t or refuse to see clearly because of a myopic view imposed by familial or societal obligations ( My Mother in Law is in the Trunk!) . For men who believe their moms or siblings can do no wrong, and their spouses should worship the ground she/they spits on, good, these men should just wait until the cloning technology becomes perfected to clone their moms/relatives and marry the resulting product.

One guy who responded online proffered this solution: To ensure peace between a Mother-in-law and a Daughter-in-law (His wife) a man should “not tell his mom how much money he gives his wife for house keeping and should not tell his wife how much he gives his mom for her upkeep”. First, there is something fundamentally wrong with this equation. You and your wife are partners in your home, Your mom is not a partner in your home, it’s you and your wife’s home, NOT you and your mom’s home. Thus, there should not even be a question of your mom being privy to the machinations therein. However, to hide basic financial information from your wife obviously states that she’s not an equal partner in the home and will only be given information by the “Boss” as deemed appropriate.

“Some” took a jaundiced view on my take on the “retirement plan” (African Mothers-In-Law: Responding to Folasayo Dele-Ogunrinde ). I think our African social system of helping our parents in need is a very noble thing. This is an aspect of our culture we should share with the rest of the world. However, some parents feel an entitlement not only to the help, but to know and sometimes take over the financial affairs of their married children, sometimes with the cooperation of the said “grown” married children. When you allow that, or stash money away, hide information from your spouse, or favor one set of parents over the other, assuming you’re in a fairly stable happy marriage, you’re asking for trouble. You and your spouse should jointly agree on how, when and who to help. It’s our culture, and I second that.

Postscript

I've been musing for a long while about shooting feature length documentary films on these types of discussions based on a dozen or so articles I've written as a series scrutinizing African relationships. I hope to be able to start shooting before the summer and intermittently interview different participants over a period of 6 months. If anyone is interested in being part of this project (or if you know of other folks) , please email me at folasayo_documentaries@yahoo.com . Invitation is open to all who live in the US* for now. I will make allowances for people who may wish to remain anonymous although preference will be to those not. Demography sought are Single, Married, Couples, Divorced or Separated 18-50-something yr old African Men and Women. Or those involved with an African in a relationship.

A screening questionnaire will be emailed to those who express interest in the project. In the meantime, if you think you have a compelling personal story about the discussion on this thread, viewpoint, etc, please send a short briefing to me or just simply indicate interest, it may be a while, but I will follow up if interested.

*Those living close to NY are especially encouraged to participate for logistical reasons. However, if you live outside the US, or can’t participate for other reasons, you may email your thoughts and comments with your real identity. Text excerpts may be used in the final cut. Also, as the project expands, Africans who live elsewhere will be included to diversify the opinions portrayed.

Thank you.

Robot Robot is offline
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	# 1 On Mothers-in-law and Abuse of Daughters-in-law. Preface by author: Revisiting this topic on equality and Mothers-in-law, was inspired by some of the responses on Nigeria Village Square and in particular by some female respondents who highlighted the fact that while women accept the imperfections of their gender, â€œSOMEâ€ men will never concede even when the problems ascribed to th...Read the full article. Posted by Robot\| 28.03.2006 09:38

nobiorah nobiorah is offline
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	# 2 Folasayo, Interesting response. A little nitpicking first. Again some hyperlinks are not active/don't work. The various typos, graphos, miscaps etc suggest a response crafted in somewhat of a hurry. There is also an undertone of simmering annoyance or irritation. May I humbly suggest an edit? Regarding my comments about not letting your wife, mother know how much you give to the other, I agree entirely that your mother has no business knowing how much you give your wife by way of house-keeping or otherwise. But believe you me, there are MILs who will literally ask their sons precisely how housekeeping money they provide in order to illustrate their claims that the wife is a spendthrift. Hence my reminder to my fellow men to keep their traps firmly shut on that score. I also agree entirely with you that one's wife is an equal partner in the home and that financial information ought not to be withheld from her. But this is in an ideal world. In the real world, a sensible husband has to sometimes withhold certain information from his wife about money he gives to relatives especially his mother for the sake of peace. I add a qualifier that such assistance must be within reason and must NOT compromise or jeopardize his own nuclear family's quality of life. BTW, most women I know NEVER EVER give their husbands a full and comprehensive breakdown of financial assistance rendered to their own relatives. Even Soul Sista whom you refer to copiously was advised by her mother never to render full disclosure of her finances/assets to her beloved Boo! Mothers in law from hell certainly exist - I've seen quite a few in my time and indeed I have close female relatives who have endured the very worst from these dreadful harpies. But with all due respect to women, I am also firmly convinced that some of the issues that arise between MILs and DILs derive at least part from the seemingly congenital inability of many women to simply get along with other women - aka female rivalry. I trust you will agree with me that the said female rivalry exists even among female siblings from the same womb. I have attended some extended family arbitrations which left me and other men present in stupefaction that seemingly mundane or minor issues could cause major quarrels between wife and mother/sister-in-law - at times leading to physical violence. I recall from my university days how it seemed that female roommates/hostel neighbours could never get along whereas most male students seemed to have relatively little agro with their roommates/neighbours. I have been in restaurants and public places in Lagos where the female staff were courteous to me but downright rude to my wife - right there in my presence. I have attended social functions in Lagos at which female guests were most polite and friendly until my wife walks into the room, I introduce her as my spouse and then the same ladies take turns in surveying my wife from head to toe before emitting a faint, airy hello! And these were total strangers to her - there was no previous agro between them. It is this congenital female agro that compels sensible husbands to withhold certain financial information from their wives. Obviously any major expenditure would have to be cleared with the wife but its not wise that to present a monthly balance sheet on your assistance to your mother. Even an angelic wife cannot help but recall that this money could have paid for karate lessons for Junior or new undies from Victoria's Secret for her! I have a well to do uncle whose formula for handling the agro between his wife and mother was to keep both women as far apart from each other as possible. He strongly discouraged his relatives from frequent or long visits. He firmly instructed his relatives that on visits to his house, we were never to ask for money but strictly to visit socially, be entertained and to keep the visits short - if possible, we were not to spend the night. If we wanted to ask for money, we were to come to his office. Aside from the agro between his wife and mother, we all enjoyed excellent relations with his wife. Nary a harsh word in all the years that I have known her. Quite frankly, I am not entirely sure that she would have been that well disposed to us over the years if on each visit to their home, she observed her husband handing over bundles of cash to his nephews and neices! Sometimes, not knowing can be good for your health - and marriage. Posted by nobiorah\| 28.03.2006 10:55

Obugi Obugi is offline
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	# 3 Ms. Folasayo Dele-Ogunrinde, By the way, I sent you this response as a PM. Your latest article starts off with some balance but then veers off predictably into the usual man-bashing. I truly respect your views. They are YOURS. Just as other men and women have their own views about relationships. This may be news to you, but there are many men and women who are perfectly happy being subservient or playing second fiddle in a relationship. I mean, how possible is it that two human beings can meet and be partners in anything, and the relationship will be perfectly equal? Do you actually believe it can happen? You also need to stop discounting the importance of freedom and the responsibility that comes with it. On my part, I simply do not believe that anyone would choose to stay in a marriage/relationship if the benefits did not outweigh the drawbacks. Human beings are smarter than you think. They know where their bread is buttered. You can write however many incendiary articles you like, it won't stop wo/men who feel the need from latching onto wo/men who fulfill those needs. Yes, yes, yes, what is right is right, morality nko, I have heard it all before, but morality and his sister righteousness never fed anyone, paid your salary or filled my bed on a cold Maryland winter night. Whatever any man did to you to provoke such wahala, abeg kpele O! Life is not easy. There is no need to cast about trying to destroy other African women's happiness. They may listen and agree with you in public, but a night you will find them nestled securely in our arms...........after spending their afterwork hours pounding foo-foo with a smile, wearing a miniskirt and high heels, and some of them even presenting the food to us on bended knee (I witnessed a Yoruba woman do this to her husband, I was like.........shuoooo!). I truly, sincerely hope you will find a man you can lord it over, it seems that is the only thing that will make you happy. Just like you, I am afraid of being the doormat in any relationship. I mean, I only tolerate my female boss because she signs my paycheck. Obugi. Posted by Obugi\| 28.03.2006 10:59

sewe sewe is online


	# 4 Wonderfully written Posted by sewe\| 28.03.2006 11:05

Exxcuzme Exxcuzme is offline
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	# 5 "A guy actually opened his mouth to tell me the other day that he hated having sex with his ex-wife because she moaned like a â€œwhite womanâ€" The above, madam, na lie. Where do you meet all this weird friends? Posted by Exxcuzme\| 28.03.2006 11:07

Sisimi Sisimi is offline
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	# 6 =Obugi>Ms. Folasayo Dele-Ogunrinde, . . . Whatever any man did to you to provoke such wahala, abeg kpele O! Life is not easy. There is no need to cast about trying to destroy other African women's happiness. They may listen and agree with you in public, but a night you will find them nestled securely in our arms...........after spending their afterwork hours pounding foo-foo with a smile, wearing a miniskirt and high heels, and some of them even presenting the food to us on bended knee (I witnessed a Yoruba woman do this to her husband, I was like.........shuoooo!). I truly, sincerely hope you will find a man you can lord it over, it seems that is the only thing that will make you happy. Just like you, I am afraid of being the doormat in any relationship. I mean, I only tolerate my female boss because she signs my paycheck. Obugi. Obugi, I hope the rest of the "Some" men like you will keep showing and revealing themselves! This article was too much for you to bottle it in, abi? This is a new low on NVS. But, no one can be surprised that you are the first to reach it. This is so predictable. You believe that a woman can never write anything critical of men and relationships unless she is suffering from a broken heart and being hard done by because she cannot find a man! Oooo! Obugi's theory: hardly original! Get over yourself! Is this all you can say? What a tired old argument. I know the number of your house! I read you!! O yes, I know the number of the house of the Some men like you. Hide all of society's ills in a vacuous, senseless theory of personal responsibility so that it makes it easier for you to continue living without bothering yourself about issues like this. Well, you don't need to read Afro-Poet. Just keep on with your life. Don't worry, the new deal will eventually hit you like a blow from Ali. As Afro Poet said, try as you may, the things that are bothering you are so close to the surface! You tolerate your female boss because she signs your pay check. Are you the best that African men can put forward? If so, we are trouble! Why do you tolerate the female members of your family? Let us know. Anyone reading you knows what your problem is. Deal with it. The fact that you think your willy is a brain does not mean it is the only one that you should use. Posted by Sisimi\| 28.03.2006 11:20

emj emj is offline
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	# 7 Yeparipa folayosayo has done it again, i am still trying to catch my breath, today is a black tuesday 4 some people ooo!!!!!!. I decided to print a hardcopy of this article just incase my cpu crashes. I will laminate this copy hopefully for prosterity sake. ::idea: They might even decide to infect this article with virus, but no worries, i have my hard copy for life.:p Folasayo, can u please put this article in book form? Indeed u nailed the issue firmly in place-----THE FEAR FACTOR----INFANTILE TANTRUMS DRIVEN BY FEAR(babies indeed, always struggling with junior for milk):razz: TIME-WARP---in space , OXYMORON------half measure. Well done folasayo, anybody that dare declare a fatwa against women again has me and a contigent of women all over the globe to contend with.:cool: We are not going to sit on the fence anymore, the time to speak out more is now. The judiciary in Nigeria is already waking up, and catching on to deciding divorce cases in favour of the women(at least some decent judge).:rolleyes: Like folasayo said, a lot of women in africa are just hanging in there, the marriage is as good as dead, pychological and physical abuse abound---even by the so called educated men against the women. The children are scarred for life--- i know the daughter of a close family member who has vowed never to marry. A nigeria man tried to flex his muscle here in north pole and the authority locked him up for just 24hrs, when he was released, a restraining order was issued against him, his wife had to appeal to them to allow him to visit the children, on his visit to the house, the wife said that she couldn't believe her eyes when he decided to help with some house chores.( he think say him dey niger where he fit turn the woman to punching bag). I counselled a lot of people when i was in nigeria, 80% of which is a case of the man not trusting the woman, hence she had to resign and be a home-maker. Some sow their so called WILDOATS and expect their wifey to be faithful to them, they even dare to suspect her of infidelity--meanwhile she has been faithful. Some are just so fearful of the woman excelling more than them hence they cut her career short under some nonsensical excuse that they don't want the children raised by nannies etc.:neutral: There was also the case of a man who brought a big brown file to my friend, he complained that his wife is irresponsible, for every complain he brought out a sheet of paper where he had documented the so called slight disrespect and utter disregard for his feelings, he also documented when he caught her winking at another man,guess what my friend agreed with him that indeed the woman is bad. When they got to the end of the session, my friend told him that indeed he should divorce the naughty woman--- the man shouted no way, he is not ready to loose 28years investment, he can't let her go, who will take care of him etc, my friend then said, in that case, we have to destroy this file, burn it and remember all the documented complaints no more--- the man agreed, since then he has lived in peace with his HONEY----MEN na wa for them:D Posted by emj\| 28.03.2006 11:56

Afro-poet Afro-poet is offline
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	# 8 Noted. It's difficult to read, and links don't work. Posting was done on my behalf by admin, I'll notify them. Appologies and Thanks. folasayo Posted by Afro-poet\| 28.03.2006 12:09

emj emj is offline
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	# 9 Don' mind obugi, i have an expose on him. He is happily married to a SHUARAB lady, she is petite and very fair in complexion they are blessed with three children, a set of female twins and a cute little boy who is just 3years old. Obugi is as dark as the coal mined in Enugu mining company. I went on under-cover work to uncover what obugi is hidding, guess what? he works for his father-inlaw and his wife fatima is his boss. She does not under english, but is fluent in french, spanish, hausa and of course the SHUA language. I have decided to help her with her english so that she can catch onto OBUGI"S post on NVS......... Anyway, if u believe all the afore-mentioned? *then u have just been punked* . Obugi, why are u always quick to draw the wrong conclusion. Take time out to read the article properly. Posted by emj\| 28.03.2006 12:12

AfricanQueen AfricanQueen is offline
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	# 10 Hmm... Folasayo, a big standing ovation to you! for I. Hitting the nail on the head once again & II. Being 'Man' enough, yes 'Man' enough to stand up to & revisit 'Some' of the rather predictable 'responses' & 'rejoiners' of 'Some' hot & bothered men to your articles... while reading the Initial article on 'Equality' I knew it was going to upset 'Some' stomachs but It was funny to note that all those who 'responded' & 'rejoined' to her articles were men..(who took the articles as a personal attack!) even when the 'Equality' article touched on offending habits in both 'Some' men & 'Some' women....Especially funny to read was the article on 'Women we hate' (a very 'fear' imposed article with no point if you ask me)..... Anyways, I personally do not believe that Men & Women were created to be 'Equal' we're created to be 'different' but complement each other.. I believe women are actually 'emotionally & Intellectually stronger' than men & men are 'physically' stronger than women for a reason. These strengths are given to us to complement each other especially thru a lifetime of matrimonial union... The level & degree to which any of these 'strengths' prevails against the other depends on the relationship & the people involved because ALL relationships are different.. So there should be an agreed 'balance' (not based on societal assumptions) by both the Man & woman in 'that' relationship if they want 'their' relationship to work....(A male doctor should not marry a female doctor & expect her to have dinner cooked every night because his 'stay at home' mum cooked dinner for his dad every night ) ... the traditional roles do not really apply in this scenario... they need to find 'their' own balance if they want 'their' union to work.... But this is just my opinion & It does not diminish the fact Folasayo's 'Equality' article is very TRUE, POINT-FILLED, VALID & especially applicable to the AFRICAN RELATIONSHIP setting....I also readily agree that while 'Some' women might be/have been offended by her articles... they were 'Man' enough NOT to take the article as a 'personal attack' & not 'respond' or 'rejoin' pointlessly.. Kudo's Folasayo Jare & You get a standing ovation from me... Posted by AfricanQueen\| 28.03.2006 12:58

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