Dr Okechukwu Ikejiani, nationalist, first republic politician and an accomplished scientist, is dead.According to a statement by Professor Miriam Odinchezo Ikejiani-Clark, he died on Sunday, August 19, aged 90 years. We reproduce below his interview with the Chinua Achebe Foundation
The Foundation Interview Series 1: Dr Okechukwu Ikejiani
Dr. Okechukwu Ikejiani had a conversation with radio host/journalist Cyril Ibe at Ikejiani’s home in
Ottawa
,
Canada
, on
January 15, 2005
. Research questions from Cyril Ibe, Professor Chieka Ifemesia and the Committee of Intellectuals.
About Dr Okechukwu Ikejiani: Elder Statesman and Intellectual Giant
Dr Okechukwu Ikejiani was born 87 years ago into the distinguished family of Reverend Canon Jeremiah and Madam Nwetulu Ikejiani of Obeagu Nri in Awka District of Anambra State Nigeria.
Dr. Ikejiani obtained a B.Sc. with honors from the University of New Brunswick in 1942. He then attended the
University
of
Chicago
where he obtained an MSc. in 1943. In 1948, he earned his M.D. from the
University
of
Toronto
and became licentiate of the medical council of
Canada
.
Later that year, Dr Ikejiani returned to
Nigeria
and then proceeded to serve his nation in several capacities. He has been Medical Director of Pfizer laboratories; one of the founding fathers and members of the governing council of the University of Nigeria; lecturer in pathology University of Nigeria; Pro-Chancellor and chairman of the council University of Ibadan; Consultant pathologist University teaching hospital Ibadan; and director of national clinic laboratories Ibadan and Lagos.
In 1960 he was appointed chairman of the Nigerian Railway Corporation and pathologist-in-chief of the Nigerian Railway medical center Lagos. Dr Ikejiani has also served as a member of the board of directors of Nigerian Ports Authority and Nigerian Coal Corporation. Between 1962-1966 he was president of the Nigerian medical Association.
During the Civil War, Dr Ikejiani was director of laboratory services in
Biafra
, and Ambassador Plenipotentiary for the head of state of
Biafra
. Since 1971, Dr Ikejiani has lived in exile in
Canada
. He has had an equally distinguished career in
Canada
serving as the Pathologist-in chief and Director of laboratories for Glace Bay General and community hospitals; New Waterford consolidated hospital and Consultant Pathologist for the Regional
hospital
of
Sydney
. He served as president of the medical staff in
Glace Bay
from 1984-85 and as Medical Director of Glace Bay Community hospital from 1987 - 1993. Since retiring in 1997, Dr Ikejiani has spent much of his time writing – a novel and his memoirs.
Dr Ikejiani is a Fellow of the Royal College of Pathologists (F.R.C. Path.)
London
,
England
. He is also a Fellow of the Medical College of Pathologists Nigeria, and a Fellow of the West African College of Physicians. In addition he is a member of the Canadian Medical Association, The Canadian Association of Pathologists, the Canadian Association of Medical Microbiologists, and the
Canadian
College
of Microbiologists. He is also a member of The Canadian Society of Clinical and Investigative Medicine and has a life membership at the New York Academy of Sciences. On August 1996, the Canadian Medical Association elected him to senior membership.
He has also been honored with honorary degrees of Doctor of Science (D.Sc.) from
Lincoln
University
,
Lincoln
Pennsylvania
,
University
of
Nigeria Nsukka
and a Doctor of Literature (D.Litt) from University College of Cape Breton,
Sydney
,
Nova Scotia
,
Canada
.
Cyril Ibe is the host and executive producer of "Afriscope" a weekly radio program on
Africa
broadcast on three
Chicago
public radio stations and contributes essays and commentaries to WBEZ-FM. Born in
Nigeria
; the naturalized
U.S.
citizen was the cofounder and editor-in-chief of African New breed magazine from 1990 to 1995. Previously he was a staff writer for the Pioneer Press newspapers in
Chicago
and held internships at the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Pittsburgh Press. He has a bachelor's degree in communications from
Central
State
University
in
Wilberforce
,
Ohio
and a master's in Journalism degree from
Ohio
University
in
Athens
,
Ohio
.
The Interview
The committee: Sir, why do you consider this Project valuable?
Dr. Ikejiani: I’ve never seen any other project like it. I’ve never seen where people have made studies, collated various ideas about what’s happening in the country, and out of that, tried to offer solutions. That’s why I’m saying it’s very good. When people read all this, they will be able to isolate from it what they can do to help the country. This is an attempt to find solutions to our problems; it has become necessary, because we have a big problem in
Nigeria
. The focus of this project is to put forward solutions from great Nigerian minds committed to the betterment of our nation. From reading it and sorting out the various things that people say, some solutions to the problems may be found.
Ibe: What would you suggest in making this project a success so that it will be an instrument for change in the future?
Dr. Ikejiani: When they collate [the various views] together, by reading all of them they will be able to sort out what should be done that would help Nigeria
Nigerian Leaders and Nigerian Leadership
Ibe: Sir, in Nigeria we decry the lack of leadership. Leadership is only associated with wealth, with money, people in government getting their way every time because they can bribe their way through people’s hearts.
Dr. Ikejiani: There are some true leaders, but they are not known. To be known in
Nigeria
you have to have money. If you don’t have money, nobody will listen to you in the village or anywhere. Suppose I go to
Nigeria
now and preach that what is best for
Nigeria
is to have a federal system. People won’t listen to me; but if I spend a lot of money, they will listen to me. It’s difficult, extremely difficult…. We have to find a way to end this mad love of money.
Ibe: How can
Nigeria
produce great leadership? Nigerians are so accepting of poor conditions, not challenging so-called leaders who take national funds, flaunt it publicly, or stash incredible amounts away in Swiss and other foreign banks. Does our being so accepting of mediocrity as a nation, in a sense, make us complicit in the poor conditions that we suffer from our leaders?
Dr. Ikejiani: Nigerians will begin to produce great leaders when they learn to demand from them accountability to the nation. That’s the only way to change the present situation in
Nigeria
. Otherwise I don’t see how you can change
Nigeria
by talking, or by pleading. No, you can’t change it that way…..The leader must bring law breakers to book.
Ibe: The kind of leader you are describing is a benevolent dictator. Some people saw that in past military dictators. Do you agree with the concept of a benevolent dictator?
Dr. Ikejiani: No I don’t agree at all. Look at all the money Abacha took away from
Nigeria
. Look at what happened to his family. It’s disgraceful. There’s nowhere in the world where this sort of thing happens. So I don’t call them leaders. And these are military people, you know. It’s very difficult that you find military people creating conditions that make for democracy anywhere in the world. As a matter of fact it’s the military that caused the fall of the
Roman Empire
….I used to dream that
Nigeria
was simple. But
Nigeria
is not all that simple. The thing about
Nigeria
, as well, is that the people tolerate unacceptable conditions of living. How can the government not pay people their salaries for two or three months, and yet, they don’t say anything? Nigerians are part and parcel of the problem. They allow things to go on as they are.
The committee: How do we end
Nigeria
’s rule by “cults of mediocrity” and make it possible for honest, qualified, hardworking Nigerians to lead the nation?
Ikejiani: We will need a constitutional amendment. In
America
they are working on election reform…we need something similar…Stop these army men from destroying
Nigeria
…. You know Zik in his book “The Question of Being President” believed that the Presidential system was wrong for
Nigeria
…that we should return to the Parliamentary System of Government. I agree with him. The Presidential system places too much power in the hands of the president…we need the Parliamentary system to spread that power away from the center.
Ibe: Are there some Nigerian leaders in history whose qualities should be emulated, or are there particular qualities that should be dispensed with in order to build a better future for the country?
Dr. Ikejiani: The Nigerian leaders that I know of were few. I can tell you a little bit about the Sarduana of Sokoto, Awolowo and Zik. They did their work for their country. Sarduana cared for the north, not for himself. Zik ruled the east, no corruption at all; there was not one evidence of corruption during his time. The same thing with Awolowo; Awolowo was not corrupt. The only thing was that Awolowo said that
Nigeria
was divided; he wanted Zik to remain in the east; he in the west, the Sarduana in the north and they would meet in the center. The present leaders, I make no comment about them. But the three leaders that ruled
Nigeria
in my time were great leaders. They may have had deficiencies in certain aspects, but they led the country well.
Ibe: Sir, what did Awolowo, Zik and the Sarduana have in common that made them great leaders?
Dr. Ikejiani: They were interested in their people; in improving people’s lives. Awolowo brought the first free education [to the west], followed by the east. Sarduana did a lot for the north; he sent a lot of northerners to school. These three men led
Nigeria
well. Even with all their differences, they were good.
Ibe: In a sense the strong ethnic leadership of these three people: Sarduana in the north, Awolowo in the west and Zik in the east helped to perpetuate the strong feeling of ethnicity in Nigeria today – I am Igbo first, I am Yoruba first, I am Hausa first and Nigerian second…
Dr. Ikejiani: [cuts in] No, no, I don’t think they perpetuated it. Zik went to
Lagos
; he ran for an election in the west and won. At that time we learned about one
Nigeria
without even knowing what
Nigeria
was. I think they [Zik, Awolowo and the Sarduana] did not perpetuate ethnicity, because what was there was there. The Igbo are the largest population in eastern
Nigeria
. They number at least today so many millions of people and they occupy a land mass where they are the only people living. It is the same with the Yoruba in the west, the Sarduana of Sokoto and his people in the north. They are the largest population in the north. You cannot neglect that; it’s not perpetuating ethnicity. It is what is there. If you neglect that, you are making a great mistake.
Corruption in
Nigeria
Ibe: The age-old issue that plagues
Nigeria
is corruption -- at all different levels. How did we come to be regarded as country of corrupt people in
Nigeria
? How did that become our culture and how can we get out of it?
Dr. Ikejiani: Now I know that corruption is rife in
Nigeria
. Corruption is not only for the big people it affects the small people too. Corruption begins from the highest level, and creeps down to the lowest. The only way to wipe out corruption is by engaging honest people at the top -- they are there, we all know who they are -- and to hold people accountable and punish those who engage in corrupt behaviour. That’s the only way.
The committee: What are some of the roots of Nigerian corruption?
Ikejiani: Our oil industry is a major source of that corruption. Visionless leadership is another… There is no accountability…Nigerians don’t know how much oil is produced, but it’s the right of the people to know. There is no openness…no transparency in government. There should be checks and balances in government. We shall need to severely punish those who loot the national treasury… Look at what is happening with the IG of Police…disgraceful!
The committee: Should we mandate unannounced auditing by non-government firms with impeccable reputations to make government earnings public?
Ikejiani: Yes, Yes….they should audit and make sure they publish oil corporation accounts – oil company costs, expenditures, salaries, budgets, etc for the people to see. Finding auditors that are not corrupt…..that will be the challenge.
The committee: If people in power who are corrupt go to jail like executives of Enron in
America
; will that serve as a deterrent?
Ikejiani: Under the right system it will…under the wrong system it may not…see what is happening in
Nigeria
today... The Oputa Report under this government has only just been made public…the Dr. Pius Okigbo report up till today has not been made public… (Sigh)
Ibe: Corruption comes down to issues of morality and integrity. How could those virtues be instilled in people, from the lowest to the highest?
Dr. Ikejiani: You can’t instill it. The thing that pays now is corruption. Morality? We have Christianity (shrugs). We are a Christian and Muslim country. I was brought up a Christian. Today there are churches everywhere, but are they preaching real Christianity? They do not always tell the truth in our churches. To cure corruption requires groups of honest, incorruptible leaders. There are very few leaders in
Nigeria
right now, because many benefit from corruption.
THE ANAMBRA CRISIS
The committee: What do you think about what is going on in your home state of Anambra?
Ikejiani: I could not have imagined that this could happen. This is a story of money and the corruption of money… Ngige did not win the election …But let’s look closely at
Ngige… This chap was bold enough to confess about his meeting at [Okija Shrine]. Why do Anambra people like him...? Because unlike his predecessors he has been paying salaries, pensions, building roads... But he has his detractors, those who are against him… However the important thing is that the people of Anambra support him, and like the people I support the governor because he produces results.
The committee: So even though he did not win the election, you support him?
Ikejiani: Yes, I support him because he is doing something, at long last, for the people. One of the biggest calamities of
Nigeria
is the corruption of the Law. Was it not a federal judge that kept ruling in the other fellow’s favor? He was obviously corrupt. If the states had a functional constitution, they would call for elections… The system is broken…we need to fix it.
The committee: Why have the ‘Leaders’ in
Anambra
State
not come together to solve the Problem?
Ikejiani: Who and where are these ‘leaders?’ Most of them are implicated in the problem. Look at what happened during the presidential election – 5 candidates for president, does that make any sense? Ohaneze and the other groups - where are they? The problem is that a number of these people are not reliable leaders.
Ibe: But, given that there’s been a lot of distrust among the Igbo, should not the Igbo be fixing their own house as well? Can the Igbo spirit of old still be there to make the Igbo successful once again?
Dr. Ikejiani: [cuts in]…Yes, Yes…the Igbo spirit is there. They are doing well in the commercial sector. The spirit is there, but they don’t have security.
Confederation for
Nigeria
:
Ibe: How will marginalized groups be reintegrated effectively into Nigerian Politics? Can they have any impact?
Dr. Ikejiani: Of course; marginalized groups can exert a great influence if they are united, mature, truthful and honest. Unfortunately, however, if you are honest in
Nigeria
you won’t be liked. The point I’m making is this -- you have to change the structure in
Nigeria
, and you have to change the structure in marginalized areas in particular. End the rule of mediocrity…find honest people. Honest people are not always the most successful people in
Nigeria
because we maintain a culture of mediocrity. Honest people leave the country if they are educated, because it is suffocating for them. I don’t think we’ve learned anything from the civil war. What we’ve learned is that the people from the minority areas have oil and they want to be free. What we’ve learned is that the Igbo are divided and cannot unite to formulate any policy. As I was saying… look at the last [presidential] election; five Igbo candidates were running for president. It’s ridiculous; why were there more than one candidate when their goals supposedly were the same? The safety for EVERYBODY in Nigeria, including the minorities and the Igbo, is to have a true – mark true with capital word
TRUE
– confederation.
Ibe: What would be the true nature of a confederation in Nigeria, and how can this be structured to address the diverse issues of different ethnic and political groups?
Dr. Ikejiani: I think the perfect idea of a confederation would be like the situation in Canada.
Canada
has a true confederation. I’ll give you an example. Self-interest groups in
Quebec
have been threatening secession from the country for years; however, the vast majority of Quebecois wish to remain within the confederation, for its benefits. Unfortunately, in
Nigeria
’s case, the country, which is only a little larger than
Ontario
- a single province – has been divided into 36 states. It’s unworkable.
Ibe: Sir, but if Nigeria were to return to a parliamentary system [of government] which it experimented with right after independence, having invested in the American style of government after that - what are the implications of starting all over again -- in a sense -- with a system that it previously attempted?
Dr. Ikejiani: It did not experiment. It did not have a true confederation; at no time did
Nigeria
have a true confederation. What we had were three states: east, west and north. That’s all. And each state was controlled by a minority: the Igbo in the east, the Yoruba in the west, and the Hausas in the north. That’s all. We never had a true parliamentary form of government. So we were not experimenting.
Improving the Educational System
The committee: What was your role in the establishment of the
University
of
Nigeria Nsukka
?
Ikejiani: Zik invited me to join the project. We asked the Eastern Nigeria Development Corporation (ENDC) to set aside 500,000 pounds a year for 5 years. With 2.5 million pounds we built and opened the university in 1960. It was different in many ways and atypical – we had a different curriculum, and unlike
Ibadan
that was enrolling 50 -100 students a year we started with 1000. We also had our own entrance examination – did away with
Cambridge
- kept standards very high. People were dedicated. And then they messed things up… (Sigh)
The committee: So, sir; how can we improve educational standards in
Nigeria
today?
Ikejiani: Universities should be allowed to administer their own entrance examinations – that is what they do abroad. Good universities will keep standards very high. Eliminate the current system [JAMB]. Education should be handed back to the States with supplementary funding from the Federal government. In
Canada
, students attend school with government loans and then pay them back when they start working… That used to be the case in
Nigeria
…Free; compulsory primary school education should be a national policy like Awolowo implemented in the west. I can’t see how Nigeria can advance without it…We should also return the mission schools back to the missions and religious groups.
The committee: All this change will cost money. Where will the money come from?
Ikejiani: No one pays taxes in
Nigeria
because there is so much corruption. In a functional system the taxes from the Oil Industry could pay for education and much more.
The committee: What about the Private Sector?
Ikejiani: Yes, individuals and private organizations can play a role.
The committee: Some pundits believe that one way to end the apathy of the Nigerian polity, demilitarize the thinking of politics and remind Nigerians that Democracy as defined by Lincoln means “government of the people, by the people, and for the people;” is to introduce civic education in schools? Do you agree?
Ikejiani: Yes, I agree. That is very necessary. That is not a new idea. Awolowo and Zik developed structures that made that possible in the past. Most people learnt about politics from these men and in school. Even the uneducated could pick things up…
Improving the Healthcare System
The committee: Our health system has broken down. Should Nigeria adopt a National Health Program like the Canadians and the U.K, Socialized Medicine in Scandinavia, or the amalgam of systems in America?
Ikejiani [cuts in]: America has no system…It is too expensive… I like what the Canadians have...the Europeans… Look; we have to decide what kind of system we want, then we need to develop hospitals at the national, state, local and community levels. One problem we have now is that there are too many private sector hospitals. Everybody in
Nigeria
who is a doctor has a ‘hospital.’ There are no standards.
The committee: What should be the role of the government in health delivery?
Ikejiani: The government needs to be more actively involved. Even if they just revamped the hospitals already there and improve standards, that would be a beginning...but we need more hospitals. We can start at the national level build four excellent hospitals and then move to the state and local levels. You see the government plays a role in setting standards. In
America
and
Canada
they have commissions that review standards…they can close you down if you don’t meet the standards...
The committee: That sounds like setting up a vast bureaucracy?
Ikejiani: No, No. If you do it right, you can actually streamline bureaucracy, increase accountability, improve standards. Doctors should play an active role in the planning. When the British left, we ran a system that worked. There were people like Dr. M.A Majekodunmi; dedicated people. It has been done before... Things are so corrupt now...
Ibe: Having lived in Canada for years now, what are some of the things Nigeria can borrow from Canada’s healthcare system?
Dr. Ikejiani: We learn the same medicine, but the question is how can it be applied in Nigeria….Suppose the government says to doctors to treat every patient, have doctors to take care of medical service….Suppose the government says that for doctors - general practitioners – for every patient that you treat I will pay you five, or ten or twenty or hundred naira. And then they say to specialists - for every patient you see, I’ll pay you two hundred, or five hundred or one thousand naira as the case may be. The doctors will be in hospitals admitting patients, and not on strike. The nurses are employed, the teaching staff is there. It would be better, but can they do it in
Nigeria
? That’s what they do here. That’s the difference between us. Can we establish this in
Nigeria
?
The committee: How do we pay for this system that you envision...? A National Health Program, with limited government bureaucracy and active physician involvement?
Ikejiani: In
Scotland
they raised money with a tobacco tax. Nobody pays taxes in
Nigeria
. The oil companies don’t pay taxes. In other countries, that is how you pay for health care. I tell you, if the people see that their taxes are going to improve their standard of living they will happily pay. Corruption, you see, is holding us back….
Ibe: Speak to some of the most prevalent diseases that still affect our people today…
Dr. Ikejiani: Everybody suffers from malaria in
Nigeria
. We don’t have anything to prevent it. We could do a lot to prevent it….So many fake drugs (sigh)….We suffer from diarrhea; that’s one of the more common diseases, and that comes from a lack of clean, pipe-borne water.
Ibe: [cuts in] Typhoid is very common these days.
Dr. Ikejiani: I know typhoid is common and it kills a lot of people too in
Nigeria
. That’s due to lack of clean pipe-borne water. A great deal of things in
Nigeria
should change. But unless you change certain conditions these diseases will exist and nothing can be done. [Sighs] I cry for
Nigeria
, I swear, because they should know better. Even without international assistance. They have enough knowledgeable and educated people to know what to do but they are not doing it.
The committee: The problem of fake drugs and materials has been a perennial problem in the Nigerian Health System. What can we do to solve this problem?
Dr Ikejiani: We can look at what
India
has done. They have a successful pharmaceutical industry, and they produce medications (generic) that are affordable. In 1961 we started the Eastern Nigeria Pharmaceutical Corporation. There was no money. We decided to use cotton that was produced locally, and cheaply, to make gauze, cotton balls, bandages, and sanitary pads. All that effort went by the wayside. I invited Pfizer to come to
Nigeria
… I was then the Medical Director of Pfizer laboratories. They made recommendations…nothing was done (Sigh). You see…we need committed leadership for things to change…
Ibe and The committee: What are the major obstacles to improving the health of the nation?
Dr. Ikejiani: How can you cure typhoid when there is no running water? It’s impossible to do those things without certain, necessary amenities. How can you cure diseases when there is inconsistent supply of electricity? How can you reach the sick when there are no good roads….I think it’s difficult for a nation to grow unless the leaders change; unless you change the constituency of Nigeria, you change the Nigerian apparatus. That means the type of government in
Nigeria
is not the type of government we [need].
Nigeria
cannot progress unless it has a true confederation. That is the only way that will change
Nigeria
.
Ibe: What will it take to develop the health sector in
Nigeria
?
Dr. Ikejiani: It will depend on the leadership. In this country [
Canada
], diseases like typhoid and so forth were cured by treated pipe-borne water. It did more than any other thing in curing diseases – pipe borne water. We don’t have it in
Nigeria
. How can we do magic? We have AIDS now in
Nigeria
. It’s spreading. It’s spreading like wild fire in our country. Do people know about it, do they study it? Do they understand? I don’t think they do. These things require knowledge, community. We are not doing that in
Nigeria
. Who’s doing that? It will take time, a different type of leadership. The people we have now are not thinking about
Nigeria
. They are incapable of thinking about what to do to improve the country other than to make money….
Improving the Transportation Sector
Ibe: Drawing from your experience as a former chairman of the Nigerian Railway Corporation, do you think that it will be possible to recapture the golden age of the railway system when you presided over its operation -- that very efficiently linked the east, west and north in a quite dependable form of transportation; can that system be revitalized in Nigeria today?
Dr. Ikejiani: A lot has changed since then. If you think of building a railway from
Lagos
to
Enugu
or Umuahia, one has to ask what will make that particular route financially productive and cost effective. But, we don’t transport coal any longer. Railway is a viable proposition if you routinely transport heavy loads like coal, oil …then it can make money. The transportation of passengers…now that is a different case... You see, the railway is not meant for the sole transportation of passengers. Any railway that carries only passengers runs at a loss. In other countries they are closing down railways even though it’s useful for long distance travel like from here [
Ottawa
] to
Vancouver
and so forth.
Ibe: In the heydays of the railway system in
Nigeria
, then, sir; how did it achieve its admirable level of efficiency? What did it move in terms of transportation, and how did the railway help in the development of the country at that time?
Dr. Ikejiani: Don’t forget that at that time there were few cars and fewer modes of public transportation. People in the east, for example, had to travel home by railway. When I traveled abroad, I went by railway from
Enugu
to Minna, then to
Kaduna
and on to
Lagos
. That was the only means of transport that was real, safe. But now you can go by road anywhere. There are transportation vehicles able to carry everything now. The experts of transport have to sit down and consider how they will build a railway that would be useful to
Nigeria
, and not simply build a railroads.
We have a railway going from
Port Harcourt
to Jebba. That was a good railway at the time. But there’s not much it carried. We retained coal-driven engines. But that’s wasteful. That’s all we were using then, instead of diesel. But today there’s no longer any coal; we are no longer mining coal for the purpose of running the railway system. And now other countries have gone into electricity! Resuscitating the railway system will require extensive planning and expense and a leadership that understands its worth!
Globalization and
Nigeria
’s Future
Ibe: Talk about some of the aspects of globalization that might affect
Nigeria
’s development today, and in the future.
Dr. Ikejiani: They tell you that there is need for globalization. Fine, but what does “globalization” mean? Do you know the water for giving injections – sterile water – we don’t have it in
Nigeria
even in the twenty-first century! All the fluids given to patients in hospitals, we don’t have in
Nigeria
. We don’t make bandages in
Nigeria
. So how can the country develop?
We talk about globalization - the government voted so many millions of dollars in support of AIDS programs. But, then, the money really goes into the coffers of other countries! They bring the drugs. If foreign countries want to help
Nigeria
in its fight to prevent the AIDS pandemic, which drugs do you think they will offer? Drugs made by them, and imported into
Nigeria
. And who will pay?
Globalization won’t save
Nigeria
. Several countries in the eastern world developed without globalization. To think that the answer is globalization, I don’t agree that [it] will save us. I think what will save
Nigeria
is when Nigerians make up their minds to take up their country, just like Asian countries. Unless they do that, globalization will not save them.
Ibe: If we could roll the clock backward, what are some of the historical points that could have stood a particular course in
Nigeria
’s development…?
Dr. Ikejiani: [cuts in]…I think when we had the three regions [eastern, western and northern regions]. We should have maintained that. As a matter of fact, the progress made at that time has not been surpassed up to now.
Ibe: Let’s talk about
Canada
, a country that you are familiar with. What’s the relationship between
Canada
and
Nigeria
?
Dr. Ikejiani:
Canada
has done a lot for
Nigeria
. They wanted good [diplomatic] relationship. I tried to invite the speaker of the Nigerian Senate to come to
Canada
and study the Canadian system, but it didn’t work.
Canada
wanted it, but then
Nigeria
messed up. I don’t think there is any relationship now. There are a lot of scholarships various Canadian universities offer foreign students, but I don’t know of any political link
Nigeria
has with
Canada
.
I know that many people who are members of the Canadian Senate have gone to
Nigeria
trying to establish business. But as I tell you -- even if you wanted to promote business in
Nigeria
, you’ll find that there is no water, no electricity; visitors to the country find that there are bad roads, and that telephones do not work. And so, they won’t establish any business because they will lose. I think that
Nigeria
will do well to study the Canadian system [of government], visit the country and establish a relationship with the Canadian government to see how
Canada
can assist in the development of what [
Nigeria
] wants, if indeed they want a true federation. Learn about the history of
Canada
. The country went through various stages; they had various leaders. That’s the only way
Nigeria
can be helped.
Ibe: Is that why you were trying to arrange for the President of the Nigerian Senate to come and understudy the Canadian system?
Dr. Ikejiani: I wanted him to come here, and see how the Canadian people work. A lot of people are saying that they want the Canadian Senate abolished. They’ve talked about it for more than 50 years, but still the Senate has not been abolished. I wanted an intelligent Nigerian, who was then speaker of the Nigerian Senate, to come here to
Canada
; it might be that through that way our people would learn a lot. The Nigerian doesn’t know anything about the Canadian government. They should know about their parliamentary form of government, and how it works. They should know that every Monday, the ministers that run the government and the prime minister are challenged by the House asking a lot of questions….That’s how a government should be.
The Historic
January 15, 19
66
Ibe: Is it true that the coup of
January 15, 19
66 was plotted to make Ironsi head of state, and tilt power in Nigeria in favor of the Igbos?
Dr. Ikejiani: No, the coup plotters didn’t like Ironsi. Ironsi just managed to escape. He was lucky. To make the Igbo scapegoats of that [military coup] is nonsense; I’m telling you the truth. I have a story about the coup here in [my soon-to-be-published autobiography], told to me by Nwaobosi who participated in the coup. I can tell you the whole story about the coup.
Ibe: But then the countercoup of July, 1966 would result in Ironsi’s death…
Dr. Ikejiani: Oh yes, because they believed that the Igbo were responsible [for the first coup] and the
BBC
was blaming the Igbo.
Ibe: A lot of people looking at this date and the involvement of the young Igbo military officers could not but argue that Igbo were doing it for their own purpose?
Dr. Ikejiani: How can they be doing it for a purpose? The scapegoat[ing] of the Igbo in the revolution [of 1966], is false. It’s propaganda. It’s not true.
Ibe: So, why did they do it?
Dr. Ikejiani:
Nigeria
was corrupt.
Nigeria
was bad and that’s what they thought was best for
Nigeria
. That’s why they did it. The army people, when they carry out a coup, do they have to give you any reason? They did it because they thought it was right; but if they had consulted the politicians that would have been different. But they didn’t succeed in the coup….They couldn’t kill [Michael Okpara]; Ifeajuna went to
Enugu
and hid. After killing the Prime Minister [Tafawa Balewa] and Okotieboh they drove to
Enugu
and stayed at
Enugu
.
Ibe: So, for the record again, the military coup of
January 15, 19
66 was not carried out by young Igbo officers to tilt the power structure in Nigeria in favor of the Igbo?
Dr. Ikejiani: How can they tilt the power? The Igbo were doing all right. The Igbo were in a good position. How would they tilt the power? Zik was the president. I think that he knew that there would be a coup. Otherwise why would he leave? He went to
Haiti
.
The Nigerian Civil War
Ibe: Where were you during the civil war? Talk about the things you did, either at home or away from home.
Dr. Ikejiani: I was in
Nigeria
during the civil war. I was practically every day with Ojukwu. I visited abroad; I visited the
United States
; I visited the whole of the
West Indies
with Professor Ezera. I visited
Haiti
with Chukwuma Azikiwe. It was because of me that they [
Haiti
] gave recognition to
Biafra
. I was appointed in the rehabilitation commission [of
Biafra
] because we did most work of the children who were suffering from kwashiorkor. We arranged for them to go abroad for treatment and stayed till the end of the civil war. During the intervals, I was sent abroad. I visited
Greece
. I went to Yamoussoukro [
Ivory Coast
]. I went to
Gabon
. I visited the whole of the
West Indies
. I was in the
United States
. I visited
Canada
. At the end of the war I was in
Lisbon
[
Portugal
]. I was in
Lisbon
when the war ended and I decided not to come back.
Ibe: Officially you were one of a number of Biafran ambassadors then, or did you have a specific portfolio?
Dr. Ikejiani: No, I will call it Ambassador Plenipotentiary. When the leader, Ojukwu, sent you abroad, you became ambassador of wherever you were assigned. That’s what I was. I was not officially referred to as an ambassador abroad, although I was Ambassador Plenipotentiary when I traveled to one of these countries.
Ibe: From your vantage point of going abroad, speaking on behalf of Biafra and Ojukwu at that time, what was the general feeling of other countries on the fate of Biafra, which was fighting a war of secession?
Dr. Ikejiani: Most countries I visited supported us – most countries. I visited
Haiti
, they gave us recognition. I visited the whole of West Indian islands. You have to know the history of
Jamaica
,
Barbados
,
Guyana
, to realize that they are small, except
Guyana
which is quite big. But there were a lot of problems with the Indian population. And
Jamaica
had a lot of problems. Their recognition of us would have been meaningless. I would say that my going abroad showed me that the whole of the black world supported us.
Greece
supported us, too.
Ibe: What did these countries see in
Biafra
?
Dr. Ikejiani: They saw a legacy of Black people who could rise -- potentially rise -- above the stupor where they were. They saw what we were able to do in the war, the way we were organized, and they were very impressed. As matter of fact,
Portugal
was telling us that our people were better organized than the Portuguese territories where they were.
Greece
was quite impressed with what we were doing. But this came to nothing because we lost the war.
Ibe: With all these things going for
Biafra
, why did
Biafra
still lose the war?
Dr. Ikejiani: We lost the war because no large country supported us. The British government was against us,
Russia
was against us openly.
America
was going up and down; they never really supported us.
Ibe: How about
Canada
?
Dr. Ikejiani:
Canada
didn’t really recognize us, but they gave us a little support. Sometimes I would come here to get a visa to go to the
United States
instead of going anywhere else. So
Canada
supported us, but it was the time of Trudeau, and Trudeau was sympathetic but that was all they could do. If
Britain
was against us,
Canada
couldn’t openly support us. So we lost the support of the great powers. And it was obvious that with the recognition of African countries which we had, with the recognition of
Haiti
, no other countries recognized us. That’s why we couldn’t get any equipment to fight. Our soldiers had to give up.
Ibe: It’s obvious why
Britain
would not support the break up of its former colony. Why would the other strong countries like Canada, Russia and the United States not look favorably at the secessionist war of Biafra?
Dr. Ikejiani: Don’t forget that at that time Russia had the whole of the Russian empire intact. They weren’t separated. So they were totally against a war of secession.
Russia
was totally against us. As a matter of fact, Russian planes were used in bombing us. If
Britain
did not support us; if
Russia
did not support us, and if the
United States
was [undecided], we couldn’t get any support. We had full support from four African countries, but that was not enough to give us the independence we wanted.
Ibe: Looking back now, what have the Igbo people and the rest of southeastern
Nigeria
, learned from that war of secession?
Dr. Ikejiani: I don’t think they’ve learned anything. First of all, now they have oil. It’s almost impossible to ask them to be a part of any Igbo cause.
Ibe: Zik was opposed to Ojukwu waging the Nigeria-Biafra civil war….
Dr. Ikejiani: [cuts in]…he wasn’t opposed to the civil war until later…
Ibe: …he wasn’t opposed to the civil war until later; so initially what was [Zik’s] feeling?
Dr. Ikejiani: His feeling was that when a leader of a nation wants to go to war, he should consult people. Primarily Ojukwu should have consulted Zik. Secondly, he should have consulted [Michael] Okpara [premier of eastern
Nigeria
]. Thirdly he should have consulted other leaders. The only people that Ojukwu consulted were [Louis] Mbanefo and [Francis] Ibiam. I have Ibiam’s letter here. It was a great mistake. I told Ojukwu [to] invite these people [and inform them]. He told me they would compromise. That’s what he said. He didn’t invite them, never asked them questions. That’s not how to lead. That’s what led us into trouble. There are many areas we would have compromised. Ojukwu did not compromise. That’s one of the mistakes we made in the war.
Ibe: What were some of the other mistakes?
Dr. Ikejiani: I don’t want to mention them….When Okpara went to
Abyssinia
, he should have compromised. We didn’t. There are two or three areas where he should have compromised….We were bringing one planeload of ammunition from
Israel
every week; one planeload of weapons from
Tanzania
every week, but we couldn’t carry tanks. If we had a boat that brought tanks, we could have fought. The tank we captured was when [Nigerian soldiers] came to Abagana trying to bypass to Nnewi without going through
Onitsha
; we captured one tank. We made a lot of mistakes during the war. It wasn’t that Zik opposed the war. Anybody with sense would consider the war. War is destructive. There’s no country that went to war that didn’t suffer, not one. When we went to war, we destroyed everything we had. That’s true.
Ibe: Many of us, Nigerians, do not have the advantage of being so close to some of these historical figures you mentioned – Zik, Ojukwu, among many others. What do you think are Odumegwu Ojukwu’s reflections these days regarding his decision to wage a war of secession?
Dr. Ikejiani: He did not go to war. We were attacked and he replied. He did not compromise at any time; that was the mistake he made. What he thinks now I don’t know. He came back [from exile in
Ivory Coast
] and joined the National Party of Nigeria NPN. I don’t think that was brilliant. Second, the man who fought a war in
Nigeria
thinks he can run as president. He picked a northerner, the brother of the Emir of Kano. I think that’s wrong. What does he want to run for president for, for what? What does he hope to achieve? I don’t know what he’s thinking that he has done, but it’s unfortunate that we had to go to war, that we did not compromise. That has put the Igbo in the position they are in today.
The Igbo Question in Nigeria
Ibe: Can there be a united voice in Igbo land today, any more than there is one united voice speaking the Jewish experience all over the world?
Dr. Ikejiani: Oh yes, there will be one united voice. We’ve not tried it. Even when we’ve tried it, we’ve not tried it well. Look at Ohaneze. Ohaneze could be a great Igbo union, but Ohaneze now is only known at
Enugu
. Igbo Union was known in every village. Every town union was a member of Igbo Union. If Ohaneze says by edict that they are united in
Nigeria
and they want every Igbo organization to listen to what they say here without which they will not recognize them, all these dispersant, various groups will disappear. Without unity of the Igbo at home there will be no unity here [in the Diaspora].
Ibe: The Igbo are among the most democratic of all peoples around the world. They hardly speak with one voice….
Dr. Ikejiani: No, no I do not agree. When we had Igbo Union, we spoke with one voice, and every Igbo man listened. Why has it changed? Why have the Igbo people changed? Is it because of the war? [The war] has not changed the Igbo…If the Igbo are united in
Nigeria
today,
Nigeria
would be a different place, a more democratic place, a better place.
Disclaimer: The views expressed in the interview are not necessarily those of the Chinua Achebe Foundation. The Achebe foundation, an intellectual and cultural organization, believes in the right of every Nigerian to express their opinion.
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