Professor  Jadesola Akande in Conversation with Toluwanimi Olujimi PART TWO 

Mrs. Jadesola Akande is a professor of high repute, and the second female Vice-Chancellor of a tertiary institution in Nigeria. Born on 15^th November 1940 in Lagos, she attended University College, London where she obtained LL.B (Hon.) 1960-1963, and also had her Ph.D. 1969-1971. She was barrister at law at the Inner temple, London between 1960-1964. She married a Legal luminary, a Senior Advocate of Nigeria ( SAN), Chief Debo Akande, who passed on last year.

Mrs. Akande attended the Nigerian law school between September – December 1965 and as a staff candidate, she obtained her Masters (LL-M) at the University of Lagos 1966-1968. She also attended the Centre for Management Studies CMD, Lagos, where she received a certificate in computer management, 1988.  She enrolled at the Harvard Institute of Management, (IEM) for a certificate in Management in 1989. Professor Jadesola Akande took a certificate in Gender Training, 1993 from the Eastern and Southern African Management Institute (ESAMI), Arusha, and challenged the federal government of Nigeria over the non-fair representation of women at the Confab.

She was elected a member of the Senate, University of Lagos, 1979 to 1981, member of the Academic Planning Committee, and also member of the students’ Welfare Board. She was also a Research Professor at the Nigerian Institute of Advanced Legal Studies, University of Lagos campus, 1984-1994.

She was the Head of Academic Department of the Nigerian Institute of Advanced legal studies 1984-1986, and became dean of the faculty of law, Lagos State University from 1986 –1988.  In 1989, she was appointed the Vice- Chancellor, Lagos State University, LASU, thus becoming the second woman in Nigeria to serve in that capacity. She occupied this position until 1993.

Akande was the Executive director and founder of a Non-Governmental Organisation, Women, Law and Development Centre, WOLDEC from 1994 to date, and the Pro-chancellor and Chairman of the Governing Council, Federal University of Technology Akure, from 2000 – 2004. She was also consultant to the UNDP, UNICEF AU on gender issues and an initiator of a family Law Centre.

Academically, Akande has been very resourceful; she has contributed numerous publications, monographs, and research papers in learned journals. Among her numerous works are her LL-M Dissertation, Women’s Rights in Property in Nigeria, 1968; Human Rights and the Judicial System in Nigeria, 2004; The Minorities and Challenges to Federalism, 1988; The Role of Judicial Precedent in Constitutional Adjudication in a Presidential System of Government, 1981; and Juvenile Law Reform in Africa, delivered at the conference of the Bar Association, 1991 among other publications.

She was a delegate to the United World Conference on Women, Beijing, China, 1995, member of delegation to the International conference of Recent Development in Administrative Law In America, Israeli, 1979, World peace through law conferences, Sao Paulo, Brazil, 1982 etc. The Oyo born lawyer has also continued her self-improvement by attending the International Education Management course at Harvard University from July-August 1989, the National Workshop on the Effective Chief Executive, Abuja, 1990; a Word Training Workshop for African Women In Gender and Research for Development with Women – ESAMI, ARUSHA, 1993, and a Workshop on Building a Civil Society at the African American Institute, Washington, U.S.A. 1993.

Her efforts towards humanity and her academic excellence earned her among others, a national honour. She was decorated with the Commander of the Order of the Niger (CON) 1998. Akande is a distinguished Alumnus of the Faculty of Law, University of Lagos, 1988, as well as an Achiever of the International Federation of Women Lawyers, 1989. She was made the Yeyemofin of Itire, Lagos State, 1986, and awarded the Justice of Wisdom Award by the Nigerian Association of Law students, 1972.

THE INTERVIEW

The educational sector is in a state of steady decline, many might say, in a state of crisis; what your opinion?

The educational sector is one of the many problems of the country; the corruption of the systems. A redress of the present situation will begin when the whole system is examined and it is ensured that there are qualified teachers and the relevant equipment for teaching all school subjects. Education is what it is in Nigeria today, basically because we did not plan for the explosion of school age children. Secondly, some aspects of school curricula are obsolete, and, therefore, we often are not teaching students what might be relevant to their lives. Thirdly, the training of teachers is not being done properly. It is true that not very many people want to teach these days because of low incomes; but by training and investing in their continued self-improvement, we should be able to manage the ones we have. Teachers sometimes do not even understand what they are meant to teach, or may not even be qualified to teach the subjects that they do teach. There is, sadly, a dearth of good teachers. Therefore, it is difficult to sustain qualified and good teachers in the system.

Many observers believe there has been a deliberate systematic “impoverisation’ of university lecturers and teachers by dictatorships who have historically held a particular resentment towards the ‘educated class’…

I agree…teachers have not been paid well in this country. The various governments of the past have not treated them well; yet, they are expected to put in their best. Unfortunately, they are busy looking for means of supplementing the little they get as salaries. That is why there has been a proliferation of after school lessons/ coaching, and one can’t blame them. It is not just that the salaries and the number of teachers are inadequate; many are also not qualified.

There has been an epidemic of examination malpractice in this country. What do you believe is the reason for this?

The corruption we see in the examinations is a ‘carry-over’ effect of the overall moral and ethical decay in the larger society. It does not help that the Nigeria nation believes in, and insists on paper qualification, rather than the possession of actual knowledge. I have argued it again and again that, as long as we believe in the paper and not the knowledge; that we want students with second class upper division (even if they have cheated to do so), the students will go all out to get the paper qualification. At interviews, it is obvious that many of the certificates being paraded have not been merited by the people laying claim to them. And, of course, there are those who will sell question papers because there is the market for them! In my time, when one became qualified and was interviewed for one job or the other, if a candidate or applicant did not meet a particular job requiring a certain standard of qualifications, he or she would get a subordinate job. But now, anyone without a second class upper division on their Resume risks his or her application being thrown away. Their abilities are not even tested in order to determine what other jobs they might be qualified for; they are simply disqualified. So, Nigeria has to examine education from this perspective; we have an abundance of human resources, yet we have not utilised them.

You have outlined many of the ills that ail the educational sector. What is your prescription for this “sick patient?” Where do we go from here?

Anywhere in the world, if you create a good environment, people will excel. But our country continues to provide insufficient funding for nearly everything that is necessary. So it’s a vicious circle. We began to notice a decline when successive Nigerian governments no longer felt that education was important, and therefore gave it the least attention. And I say this with all seriousness. With the military governments in power it was not considered all that important to have education. Many in the government itself were in fact young and did not value education, because they viewed their more senior colleagues as poor, and preferred to become millionaires.

Then it was the ne’er do wells who were enlisted in the army; they couldn’t appreciate the value of education. When such people in the military drew up their budgets, therefore, education was the least on their priority list. But they could afford to spend money on all sorts of rubbish. And we have had many ministers of education within a system that does not recognize or (and) appreciate the importance of education. It is impossible to be serving under a military government, and you want to make a case for a course that the government does not believe in; how are you going to be able to convince it? If any money is given, at all, it will certainly not cover that particular project, and if you expend any part of your subvention on it, you will run into problems. So, the only option you have is to execute such programmes with your own money, and no one cares. Meanwhile, the people in government allocate so much to themselves in order to amass the wealth to build houses here and all over the world. So, what is the value of education to them?

That has been the plight of the educational system in Nigeria.

You made history as the first female Vice Chancellor of the Lagos State University (LASU). What are some of your memories of that period…some of the challenges that you faced?

In all my five years as the vice chancellor of LASU, I received a total of N5 million from government, which is supposed to have covered overheads, salaries and other things. Everything that was to be done was handled directly by the military, and you can see the level of development of LASU! You could go for an appointment and have to sit in a government office for the entire day. At one time, I even had to tell the governor – “I’ve been waiting in your office the whole day; by the time I get back to the campus students will be rioting! Then, you will now come and query me for the rioting that I know nothing about.” That was what prompted him to instruct the Commissioner for Finance to attend to our demand!

But how many times can one do that -- leave your duty post, and go and sit in the governor’s waiting room while all kinds of people come in and are allowed to see him. And most of these people are coming to see him for personal contracts! So, this is not just talking about UBE; infrastructures must be provided in the schools, teachers have to be retained and trained, and paid living wages as an incentive to teach. A great deal has to be invested as a way of correcting the system. There have been so many wrongs arising from bad management; we all now know that the same people who complain about student violence might actually be fueling that violence to avoid attention being paid to their own non performance. There is no water, no light, no accommodation, and so on and so forth. The environment is not conducive for studies. There are no books in the library, so the students are idle, and there is nothing to occupy them. Some students really want to study, but all these things I’ve mentioned are immensely discouraging.

Professor Akinkugbe (guest of the Achebe Foundation) believes that the universities have a lopsided admission process that is essentially corrupt…

Ah…the admission system is faulty, as far as I’m concerned. Students are admitted and nothing is known about their background…where they are coming from. Many of these students have been through the system of forgery; many of them cannot pass five credits in WASC. Yet they pretend to have scored 275 in JME; it’s absolutely deceitful.

I believe what the vice chancellor of the University of Lagos (UNILAG) is advocating – universities should be allowed to interview students who are supposed to have passed the JME, whose names are sent to the respective universities from the Joint Admission and Matriculation Board (JAMB). This will provide the opportunity to weed out the many that should not, in any way, have made the admission list. As it is now, many students who find their ways into the universities have no business being there. Many are unable to pass even four credits in Secondary school, and yet they were supposedly successful with the JAMB examination?

JAMB has come under a great deal of fire in recent years…

When I was vice chancellor, I insisted on interviews for students whose names were on the JAMB list to be interviewed in their faculties, and those who could not fit in were not allowed to register. I am not saying these students cannot be given provisional admission, but I wanted to see them before they were finally admitted. They should be interviewed; the admitting university should be ale to have some knowledge about whoever is coming into its system. He or she supposedly scored A1 in English; can they actually communicate in the English language?

I remember we once asked an under graduate what a “cobbler” meant, and his reply was: ‘a cobbler cobbles.’ Another, asked his state of origin, replied that he was from Ondo State. But when asked the name of the capital, he said, Abeokuta (instead of Akure). Even if he had never been to his state, there is no reason he should not know, at least, the capital of his state of origin. Those are the kind of students in the universities now. They buy O’ level results, get people to write their JME for them, and their parents are involved too! Parents are guilty of purchasing question papers and results for their children, and these developments should be of great worry to all of us.

Allow me to steer the conversation, for a moment, in the direction of the plight of women in Nigeria; Nigeria is witnessing an upsurge in the visibility of women in public life. Some applaud this development as a long overdue empowerment of women. Others point out that women still face many economic, political and especially educational obstacles. Do you share this opinion?

As it is, it appears that the world is just coming to the realisation that women are as important to any nation as the men. They have the same rights as the men folk and should not be discriminated against in any form. Generally, the nation has been very unfair to our women, hence the saying that we are in a man’s world. In this country, it is particularly bad, because we are operating a patriarchal system which sees the man as the all, as the head of the woman, and therefore the woman must automatically be subordinate. That is where the woman’s problem began. And you can see this attitude in the activities of political parties.

Political parties are controlled by god fathers; until the godmothers get there, the godfathers will continue to dominate the political terrain. And unless these men want a particular woman; their girlfriends or their wives in some positions, it continues to be a game dominated by men. Another issue is the fact that politics in Nigeria is dominated by money; men tend to be the ones with much of the money. For instance, where the woman is given a N200, 000 contract, and she makes a N10, 000 profit, at the end of the day, she cannot afford to spend that N10, 000 on politicking, because she has the family to look after. Many of these men you see around don’t take care of their children. So, unless a level playing ground is provided, violence and political thuggery are removed, and the powers of the godfather diffused, women will play secondary roles in politics. Good enough; women have come of age – they are enlightened, and are well informed about happenings around them. So, information wise, Nigerian women are being empowered.

Women, it is said, are the power owners: awa ibirin, awa la nijoba. Awa l’abi doctor, awa labi lawyer.’ They know their rights, but what they don’t know, is how to use that power.

How can Nigeria empower young girls and women to take up more leadership positions?

Now what we need to do is to teach them to use their power to their own advantage. We tell them that they should not continue to queue behind the men; when a woman comes out, line-up behind her for a change and wait. Do not look at her as that little child whose naming ceremony you attended, and who now wants to become a governor. Rather, look at her positively, because she knows where the shoe pinches. And when it comes to women’s empowerment, look at them as individuals who can perform rather than a member of a class that has to be kept behind. It is when we have succeeded at this experiment that in the next election, we shall do better.

But we should be able to get the women to understand that it is not enough for us to recognise that we have the power; we must also use that power to put women in positions of authority…where power is. For the few women in office now, I will say that they are doing very well; the men naturally will want to prevent them. But the women who have vision and became voted in are doing very well. Others might get distracted; but those who know what they went into politics for are doing very well. And they can actually be more relevant by working closely with the women outside their constituency. For now, some of them are not doing things in the interest of women; they are not listening to what women want. Once they get into office, they are surrounded by this deluge of men, and therefore don’t have the time and frame of mind to go back to their base to talk with the women. I think they should commit time to doing this a bit more, though I can understand their difficulties, because I have been one woman in 400 men before, and by the time you relate with 400 men, time is gone.

One of Nigeria’s stumbling blocks in the journey to development has been the problem of Ethnicism. What is your perspective on this old pathology…?

First a clarification: There is a difference between those that are ethnic bigots as opposed to those that are ethnic loyalists or proud of their ethnic background without allowing this affection for ones’s place or people discriminate against others from different ethnic backgrounds. So in a positive sense, ethnic pride meant somebody was Yoruba, Hausa or Igbo and proud of it. Somebody has to come from one particular place or the other; but it meant nothing beyond that and didn’t affect you in any way. It didn’t make any difference to you other than that. But suddenly, it has become the case that unless you identify yourself with your ethnic group, you are not going anywhere. Government began to insist on one’s ‘state of origin,’ indigeneship, and so on. And I cannot imagine the importance of this information. And this appears on forms and all sorts of things. You can’t simply be an Igbo man; you must identify yourself as having come from Imo or Anambra State; not simply Yoruba, but as having come from Ondo or Osun State. You are rated according to your tribe and state of origin.

You seem to be suggesting that ethnic tension and bigotry is a relatively new phenomenon…

Not really; however, it took on a different flavour and character. In the past, it didn’t make any difference, whether you spoke one language or not. But then with federal character you could only get a privilege if you belonged to a particular group. People started to lay emphasis on the particular ethnic group they belonged to.  That was the beginning of the set backs; when ethnicity became an issue. And it has divided us along silly lines, very unproductive lines. Now, you have to make sure that you know somebody of the same ethnic background with you to get things done. Whereas, in the past, everybody competed, and if you deserved something as a Yoruba man, you got it; if a Hausa man, you won it by merit, you got it. But now, if a Yoruba man is at the helm of affairs, he looks out for a Yoruba man he will endorse; the same goes for the Hausa or Igbo man. So tribalism continues to divide us and this will continue for a long time to come. For now, we don’t see ourselves as Nigerians, we see ourselves as Yoruba, Hausa, Igbo, Efik and so on. And then, we go on to see ourselves as Yoruba from Osun State or Ekiti State, and all these our discussions cannot address the problem. So, we’ve gone even farther from geographical zones into small clusters. She is Yoruba from Owo, Yoruba from Ekiti, and so on. And I get scared for this country if we keep on insisting on one’s federal character, geographical zone, etc, because we do not use this information constructively. I think we should go back and start stressing on merit.

If a Hausa man or a Yoruba man wins, what does it matter? But we won’t allow it, because of tribal consciousness. It’s a vice that has already been entrenched, and you really cannot change it, unless the constitution says now that this is no longer the case. Federal character, geographical spread -- Taraba, a small state of 90,000 people compared with Lagos State of 13 million people -- you cannot change all that; you can’t go back on that, but you can deemphasize it.

I would like to discuss some of the recent attempts to hold a national dialogue. The National Political Reform Conference tackled the divisive issues impeding the progress of this country, did it not?

 The confab, as far as I’m concerned, did not address those issues that have kept us apart. They did, however, discuss substantive issues that really affect as a nation. First of all, among these issues is the question -- are we a nation? Is Nigeria a nation? If it is a nation, how do we want to be governed? Now, how do we want to allot resources or share positions? How do we want to be governed as a nation? I will give you an example; South West governors who are mainly Yoruba cannot come out with a Yoruba agenda, because of individual selfishness. In fact, if they had the interest of South West to which they belong, at heart, there should be a common ground. The South South who is discussing resource control cannot iron things out among its members so that the Niger Delta has more oil; so why would there be strife in Abia state? Why should areas not as despoiled as the Niger Delta raise so much dust?

As a highly respected legal luminary, what is your perspective on the agitation for various constitutional amendments?

Various groups have been talking about amending the constitution…and yet not one group – the national assembly, lawyers groups, politicians - has said let’s look at this seriously, look at this issue very closely and clearly…examine and amend the clauses that we disagree with. There has not been that kind of in-depth investigation, analysis, and then legal activism. The confab did not address the core issues that are at the root of our crises. Pronaco attempted to do this, and answer important questions such as the question around power sharing -- what sort of federalism do we want to practice before we now start talking about sharing resources?

The term of the president has been turned into a political gimmick. Every ethnic group looks at the presidency as its property, not as a chance to direct concrete development for the entire nation…If you are Nupe or Yoruba or Igbo, all you think about is the eight years before you step down and another tribe takes over…what can I do for myself and my own ethnic group while I am in power? So, the thinking is not geared towards what can be achieved in eight years; what we can all work towards for Nigeria. Rather, it’s, “oh, the Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba, will have to wait another eight years now. There are ethnic groups who have never had one of their own in power; what about them? And that’s the problem. Nobody is talking for Nigeria; everybody is talking in terms of personal interest. And we will just start from square one again.

Nigeria imports most of her food. What suggestions do you have to rejuvenate the agricultural sector?

Go back to the farms. Nobody assisted Awolowo; each state, each zone has fertile ground for one crop or the other that it can grow and do well at producing. Land should be dedicated for producing those crops. We need food crops, and to be food sufficient. We need cash crops also, and to enhance our export promotions. Even those who are growing cassava do so insufficiently for food, and that’s why it is being exported on such large scale because they want money.

There should be a policy as to how much crop should be left for local consumption and how much can be exported abroad. This should be planned several years ahead. A certain percentage of produce must stay in the country, and the rest can go out as exports to earn foreign exchange. We must bring our earnings back to re-invest in the country, and not in Ireland or Switzerland; it should come back to Nigeria for developing the nation. And the by-products of agriculture can be used for other things – set up industries, for instance. In Indonesia, leaves are being used for making clothes.

Apart from the oil and banking sectors, Nigeria’s economy is often described as prostate. What can be done?

This continues to be our challenge. The by-products of petroleum can be used for all sorts of things, but instead, we focus only on the export of crude. Our people in government are aware of so many things that can be done to improve the nation, sustain a successful economy; but, surprisingly, pay no attention to. People who are not in government, but are practically on ground can give a great deal of wise suggestions. We survived on agriculture for a long time, everybody benefited from agriculture. In the old Bendel state, the staple was palm oil; in the Western Region, it was rubber and cocoa, and in the northern region, it was groundnuts – we remember the groundnut pyramids very well. And the land is still there; no one has taken the land away from them. Why is our government only concentrating on one resource –oil? It is as if nature did not give us other resources; are we not tempting fate in this way? And even with the oil, the by-products are not being used to develop the place. There are many by-products of oil wasting; nobody is thinking of that.

Professor, do you have any thoughts on restructuring the Nigerian State?

We have all kinds of organizations – NEEDS, SEEDS; there is AGOA and so on, and so forth. But I would like to know how these bodies work and how they affect the ordinary man on the street. You see, we have these grandiose ideas, we go about, we spend money organizing conferences; we listen to lectures, we pick up the talk, gulp it down, but then return home without digesting it. And this is part of what is wrong with us; you see one good idea somewhere, but not enough is learned to make the idea work, especially how it can work within our own peculiar environment. And though everyone runs helter-skelter over it, our lot is never improved.

I mean, the IMF gives us some advice. Now these are simply suggestions, ideas, and not an order. However, these suggestions are implemented at the expense of our people, without regards for our own environment, and then you say it doesn’t work? How can it work? Of course it will not work. Always, we establish these NEEDS and SEEDS; well... Anyway for now, I think somebody is thinking for everybody, may be eventually we’d come round all these problems.

Before policies are made and implemented, they must be analyzed in the contest of what the people really need. Even the Soludo capitalization thing; let’s look at it this way -- how many Nigerians actually bank? And if they bank, do they lave such large amounts of money in the banks? Why can’t small banks be allowed where people are comfortable saving their N500 and N1000? But you want conglomerates of banks where the small farmer who wants to save his N1000 or N5000 will be afraid to go.

How do you view the standard of legal training in Nigeria today? Surely, it has taken a dangerous dive for the worse…

We have quality legal training in Nigeria, but like other aspects, it has been corrupted too. The lawyers we are turning out now are half-baked, badly focused, badly behaved, badly robed; the ethics they are not prepared to learn. Law, in particular, has and is dependant on ethics. Lawyers nowadays no longer learn, because the love for quick returns has taken over. The short cut to make money has resulted in lawyers no longer dignified in practising their profession. However, this is happening not only with the law profession, but all professions. When I was young, it was dignifying to be called a lawyer. Now lawyers go up and down the streets, doing charge and bail, carrying files about and making up stories.

You have been an important role model for environmental protection and an environmental activist. What are your thoughts on the condition of the Nigerian environment?

There is an urgent need to study our environments. Our environment has been destroyed totally, and I think a sense of keeping our environment clean must be established. We are focusing on debt relief, which I agree with, but only in the sense that the relief should come as a physical project. We need to find a solution to our energy problem, for instance.  If money is invested in such a way that will give us constant energy supply, then we would have achieved something. Instead of giving us relief in the form of monies, this should be invested physically in our country. If there is constant supply of energy 24 hours of the day, manufacturers will do better, employment will increase, diseases will be managed, and we can begin to see an end to the poverty.

Secondly, they should help us solve all the problems of water, and provide portable clean water for all. The problem of cholera will be solved, for one; if the gutters flow freely, the risk that mosquitoes carry will be controlled or eradicated, and we will not be rolling back malaria every year. This will also tackle the menace of flood; guinea worm disease will disappear, and we will not have to call on NGOs, in this day and age, to come and fight it for us. Let them look at safety tips like these and people will be happy.

When there is employment, a good transportation system – one can get home and there is light, water flows. After a good bath, you are refreshed for right rest. And it does not cost a fortune to provide these basic social amenities. So, first things first... For our debt that you want to forgive us, give us good, modern refineries that would function, w don’t want the cash. If you bring the cash into our system, we would not get the worth. If we are given physical projects, we shall then see how, on our own, we can manage things. But when physical cash is part of the equation some greedy somebody waiting by the sidelines with a bag will collect it to share with his or her oga.

If we are able to maintain a clean environment, we must then have a good monitoring mechanism. Human beings are the same anywhere in the world but when they know that they cannot break the law and get away with it, they behave themselves. It is easy to put these mechanisms in place very easily. But because we introduce policies and we don’t monitor things, it’s as if human beings should be obedient and not go against standards, without our putting in enforcement measures. And it’s all because of lack of commitment. We are not lacking in personnel, but our systems make it difficult for people to excel. Our people go elsewhere and do well, and I can count seven top companies in America that are headed by Nigerians that are performing brilliantly.

We must look inwards. As I have always said, there is no unemployment situation in Nigeria, merely that people have no initiative. People pass through school, and all they want is white-collar jobs where there are no white collar jobs. So they must either create employment for themselves or go back to the farms. There is also the need to review school curricula to accommodate this situation. There are no jobs for clerks anymore, so let’s train young people to be self employed; they must be able to use their initiative to create employment. Let’s put practical things in the school curricula, and that is what the six-three-three four system of education should be all about. But everybody gets pushed through to the universities and the country suffers for it in the end!

Thank you very much, Professor Akande.

You’re welcome…

Disclaimer: The views expressed in the interview are not necessarily those of the Chinua Achebe Foundation. The Chinua Achebe Foundation, an intellectual and cultural organization, believes in the right of every Nigerian to express their opinion.

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Robot  # 1 | 25.09.2006 22:27

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